Two Space-Time Shattering Protagonists Go At It (Redo)

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree with orange, super natural willpower is not a win condition, supernatural will power is a mental thing which allows dudes to resist pain, possession/mind control and enhance endurance, you are making a HUGE assumption that ryuko will be able to surpass an attack that will vaporize her instantly by just will power alone and make herself get multiple times stronger just cuz yeah "I am strong mentally lmao" and this is ignoring that breaking limits is all goku ever does. I think we should stop this argument and just start counting votes. My vote goes to goku.

 

[Orange]

I vote for goku too. And if you wanna use the supernatural will power, goku has three ways to get stronger: The UI, the zenkai ability, Rage power. Kamehameha can also make him stronger. And goku can just make a spiritual bomb, and whenever she tries to hit him he just instant transmission away from her like he did with kid buu in the manga.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I agree with orange, super natural willpower is not a win condition, supernatural will power is a mental thing which allows dudes to resist pain, possession/mind control and enhance endurance, you are making a HUGE assumption that ryuko will be able to surpass an attack that will vaporize her instantly by just will power alone and make herself get multiple times stronger just cuz yeah "I am strong mentally lmao" and this is ignoring that breaking limits is all goku ever does. I think we should stop this argument and just start counting votes. My vote goes to goku.

Proof that it would vaporize her instantly? Ryuko passively redirects nergy attacks ad she would rapidly become waymore durable than Goku after a few secons of fighting him

And no actually, Ryuko's willpower is tangible shockwaves

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im voting Ryuo btw, Goku has no real way of putting her down due to her regen speed, passive dura amps, and nergy rdirection

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I vote for goku too. And if you wanna use the supernatural will power, goku has three ways to get stronger: The UI, the zenkai ability, Rage power. Kamehameha can also make him stronger. And goku can just make a spiritual bomb, and whenever she tries to hit him he just instant transmission away from her like he did with kid buu in the manga.

Ryuko has thre ways to getstronger too; passive fiber absorption from the multiverse, zenkai, and rage power. Only problem is Ryuko's is absurdly faster and more potent and makes her way faster on top of it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Proof that it would vaporize her instantly? Ryuko passively redirects nergy attacks ad she would rapidly become waymore durable than Goku after a few secons of fighting him

And no actually, Ryuko's willpower is tangible shockwaves

Charged kamehameha attacks have power level several times their user and can one shot people of equal power to the user as evident with gohan vs cell. Instant transmission into fast charged attack (charged attacks are also faster) will catch off guard and are bound to hit. Once they hit they just instantly atomize beyond ryuko's regeneration.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay but given that Goku doesnt lead with the Kamehameha right off the bat in this form by the time he thinks to use it Ryuko would b several times stronger and more durable with energy redirection even further above her own durability, so that wouldnt even work

Chargd attacks wont do anything as her redirection is passive, its done by the natural frequency her body gives off

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Okay but given that Goku doesnt lead with the Kamehameha right off the bat in this form by the time he thinks to use it Ryuko would b several times stronger and more durable with energy redirection even further above her own durability, so that wouldnt even work

Chargd attacks wont do anything as her redirection is passive, its done by the natural frequency her body gives off

Your assuming she'd be stronger when goku would immediately realize shes getting stronger and would resort to finishing her immediately with a kamehameha which is >>> his own power (he can one shot himself with it) and he already has the AP advantage by a respectable amount, so he'd still easily be able to bypass the redirection thing and atomize, also don't forget that goku has a powerful reactive PL with UI constant power gain, saiyan physiology and limit breaking power.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Your assuming she'd be stronger when goku would immediately realize shes getting stronger and would resort to finishing her immediately with a kamehameha which is >>> his own power (he can one shot himself with it) and he already has the AP advantage by a respectable amount, so he'd still easily be able to bypass the redirection thing and atomize, also don't forget that goku has a powerful reactive PL with UI constant power gain, saiyan physiology and limit breaking power.

She would be yes, Ryuko already starts off at bareminimum equal to if not stronger than Goku and sh has two passive amps to her AP, durability, and Speed in her rage power and passive life fiber absorption as well as hr own zenkai that would put her well ahead of Goku in no time at all as her RPL is demonstrably faster

AP doesnt bypass attack redirection without spatial manip or some other type of hax especially when Ryuko is already able to redirect energy attacks that can oneshot her

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Not true since goku is a good bit above baseline, he is able to fight against jiren who is stated the strongest U7 has ever faced, Baseline < Goku sign 1< Jiren.
Rage power is if she's angry only, no reason for her to be at the very start of the fight, IDK about life fiber you should explain that and her reactive PL works after she heals from injuries which goku would barely damage her without figuring her out immediately, goku also has his own reactive evolution.

AP doesnt bypass attack redirection without spatial manip or some other type of hax especially when Ryuko is already able to redirect energy attacks that can oneshot her

You're being dishonest, the profile clearly states that her attack reflection (which she doesn't have) only works on sound based moves I quote verbatim "Sound Manipulation (Able to create forcefields of sound, as well as redirect sound based attacks using her own natural frequency)", nothing says that it works on energy attacks.

 

[Thedoctor]

goku slaps no problem

 

[BluudyManikin777]

It literally says on the page that Supernatural Willpower is an ability that characters can be given if they can exceed their own limits through sheer willpower. Stuff like Rage power don’t have good limit breaking feats, as becoming a little bit stronger isn’t good enough to actually make a notable difference. Stuff like Reactive Power Level or Evolution can act as a way to break through limitations, although this one happens overtime unlike Supernatural Willpower which can happen spontaneously

 

[sanicspood]

goku slaps no problem

why?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

A scenario that I’ve thought of is this: Since verse isn’t equalized, Goku’s Extrasensory Perception won’t work, so he can’t detect Ryuko’s energy. Ryuko on the other hand has Senketsu who can detect how powerful someone is just by being near them. Senketsu would let Ryuko know that Goku’s is more powerful than her, and she will go for a good ol “take the ass beating to become stronger” tactic. Goku’s physical attacks and his raw AP can be enough to give Ryuko enough damage that the Reactive Evolution becomes more potent, and will become far more powerful after every hit she’s taken. By the time Goku has realized his attacks aren’t really doing anything, it would have been enough time for Ryuko to evolve to his level of power. Goku would go for the Kamehameha. Ryuko knows she hasn’t faced any attack like this one, but that’s where Supernatural Willpower and Adaptation come in. Ryuko is able to exceed her limits through sheer willpower on the spot, and can instantly create an attack to be able to handle the Kamehameha. Ryuko has created attacks in the middle of fights without trying them out once, and had came out successful. As her profile says, her adaptation part of RE isn’t limited to what she’s been show to be able to do, Ryuko can most likely use adaptation to come up with something to handle energy waves spontaneously. Ryuko handles the Kamehameha, and can keep going. Goku will keep fighting too, but at this point his UIO won’t last for much longer and that’s a win for Ryuko

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not true since goku is a good bit above baseline, he is able to fight against jiren who is stated the strongest U7 has ever faced, Baseline < Goku sign 1< Jiren.
Rage power is if she's angry only, no reason for her to be at the very start of the fight, IDK about life fiber you should explain that and her reactive PL works after she heals from injuries which goku would barely damage her without figuring her out immediately, goku also has his own reactive evolution.

Ryuko is above the Primordial life fiber which before its absorption was able to destroy a timline just by existing and then spent over an hour constantly absorbing life fibers from acros th multivers with each second it spent doing so making it powerful nough to onshot its previous strength as evidenced by Ryuko who literally stole its ability to do so and gained th same amp, with Ryuko before doing this being abl to match Satsuki who was abl to deal constant damage to th primordial life fiber even as it was growing in power.

Her RPL fia rage power makes her stronger and faster th more she get fired up in battle and her passive RPL makes her passively strong enough to oneshot her previous strength level by absorbing a constant stream of life fibers from across the multiverse

You're being dishonest, the profile clearly states that her attack reflection (which she doesn't have) only works on sound based moves I quote verbatim "Sound Manipulation (Able to create forcefields of sound, as well as redirect sound based attacks using her own natural frequency)", nothing says that it works on energy attacks.

I can try to find a gif of it because she does in fact redirect enrgy attacks

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ryuko is above the Primordial life fiber which before its absorption was able to destroy a timline just by existing and then spent over an hour constantly absorbing life fibers from acros th multivers with each second it spent doing so making it powerful nough to onshot its previous strength as evidenced by Ryuko who literally stole its ability to do so and gained th same amp, with Ryuko before doing this being abl to match Satsuki who was abl to deal constant damage to th primordial life fiber even as it was growing in power.

Her RPL fia rage power makes her stronger and faster th more she get fired up in battle and her passive RPL makes her passively strong enough to oneshot her previous strength level by absorbing a constant stream of life fibers from across the multiverse

I can try to find a gif of it because she does in fact redirect enrgy attacks

So there is a scaling chain that puts Kill la Kill IF above baseline. With the way the chain is explained, it seems that Ryuko might actually already be as powerful as Goku from the beginning

 

[WeeklyBattles]

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So there is a scaling chain that puts Kill la Kill IF above baseline. With the way the chain is explained, it seems that Ryuko might actually already be as powerful as Goku from the beginning

Hold on if this is true then she's the winner easily so please clarify this. From the sound of what @WeeklyBattles said she seems way above baseline.

I can try to find a gif of it because she does in fact redirect enrgy attacks

In the same scene it says that the attack is a sonic attack... bruh.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Hold on if this is true then she's the winner easily so please clarify this. From the sound of what @WeeklyBattles said she seems way above baseline.

In the same scene it says that the attack is a sonic attack... bruh.

Regarding if Ryuko can block Goku’s ki waves, she likely can’t, but she will adapt to create something spontaneously to be able to handle the Kamehameha
Well, since she’s just as if not more powerful than Goku, she won’t go for her “bringing herself closer to death” strategy. Goku repeatedly punching her wouldn’t give her a lot of damage, therefore making her Reactive Evolution less potent, and she actually will try to fight back. As for Goku, his skill is far superior and becomes stronger through every attack, being superior to himself after literally every single punch or kick. Since who’s stronger has switched around, it’s clear that Goku can still evolve to get somewhere close if not to her level. As I said before, Goku will less likely go after a Kamehameha, which would actually be something in favor of Ryuko, plus it’s taxing on his energy. So, it all truly comes down to will Ryuko outlast Goku, or will Goku outskill and outsmart her. This seems like it is an inconclusive match, given that this match heavily depends on a lot of things that we cannot determine

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Hold on please actually do clarify the scaling for ryuko like exactly where is she in low 2-C. Depending on how far into low 2-C she is this will alter the whole match drastically (either she easily wins if she's starts stronger, or goku wins if he starts stronger). But I agree after this last part this match is most likely inconclusive.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Hold on please actually do clarify the scaling for ryuko like exactly where is she in low 2-C. Depending on how far into low 2-C she is this will alter the whole match drastically (either she easily wins if she's starts stronger, or goku wins if he starts stronger). But I agree after this last part this match is most likely inconclusive.

No matter how far she is into Low 2-C, which looks like it’s around Goku’s level or slightly above it, this match depends on way too many things we can’t exactly determine. And vote will be counted

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree, we can't actually know how strong ryuko gets exactly with reactive PL and supernatural will power is full of assumptions so it's probably best to settle for the middle ground with inconclusive.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Since this is Sign wouldnt Ryuko literally just vin via running out the time limit?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Since this is Sign wouldnt Ryuko literally just vin via running out the time limit?

Goku is capable of outskilling and outsmarting. It’s unknown what his knowledge can get with his time limit. The fight really depends on this one thing, and it’s indeterminate, so inconclusive

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Since this is Sign wouldnt Ryuko literally just vin via running out the time limit?

With what we know, Goku can still catch up to Ryuko, it’s likely

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku is capable of outskilling and outsmarting. It’s unknown what his knowledge can get with his time limit. The fight really depends on this one thing, and it’s indeterminate, so inconclusive

BTW goku would also be at full power too so he would be in sign plus not fatigued like he was against jiren too so more stamina and more oppurtunity to get stronger.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

BTW goku would also be at full power too so he would be in sign plus not fatigued like he was against jiren too so more stamina and more oppurtunity to get stronger.

This would mean that Goku is higher than what he’s canonically shown, because in the anime, he was already damaged and already fought prior to UIO. This would make him at least close to Ryuko, and can eventually reach her level

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Goku is capable of outskilling and outsmarting. It’s unknown what his knowledge can get with his time limit. The fight really depends on this one thing, and it’s indeterminate, so inconclusive

How is he capable of outskilling?

And how exactly can he catch up to Ryuko who has two passive speed amps on top of being able to bypass Instinctive Reactions?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This would mean that Goku is higher than what he’s canonically shown, because in the anime, he was already damaged and already fought prior to UIO. This would make him at least close to Ryuko, and can eventually reach her level

Okay but how? Ryuko's level isnt stagnant it would also be rising at a constant rate that would at bare minimum match goku if not surpass it given how its shown to work

 

[BluudyManikin777]

How is he capable of outskilling?

And how exactly can he catch up to Ryuko who has two passive speed amps on top of being able to bypass Instinctive Reactions?

Goku can also become stronger and faster as the fight goes on. And characters in Dragon Ball have been shown to beat slightly more powerful characters because of their skill and experience. In this case Goku is extremely skilled and experienced when it comes to martial arts, he is also very strategic

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Okay but how? Ryuko's level isnt stagnant it would also be rising at a constant rate that would at bare minimum match goku if not surpass it given how its shown to work

Goku becomes more powerful after every single attack, every block and every dodge, his movements become far sharper. Goku’s Reactive Power Level is nigh-passive, as just simply being in the middle of a fight already brings his power level up

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bruh have you watched the tournament of power? Goku is probably one of the best martial artists ever.

 

[Orange]

How is he capable of outskilling?

And how exactly can he catch up to Ryuko who has two passive speed amps on top of being able to bypass Instinctive Reactions?

Capable of mastering an attack that takes 50 years of training to do in a blink of an eye, rivaling people who have millions of years of experience, first know mortal to master UI in just minutes, while skilled people like beerus took them thousands of years to do so, predicting a well know 100 years hitman movement while they were constantly skipping through time, capable of fighting with people who are massively stronger than him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Goku can also become stronger and faster as the fight goes on. And characters in Dragon Ball have been shown to beat slightly more powerful characters because of their skill and experience. In this case Goku is extremely skilled and experienced when it comes to martial arts, he is also very strategic

Okay but

1. Ryuko does the exact same thing only better as instead of gradually getting a bit stronger over the course of the fight she jumps to being able to blitz and oneshot her previous self every second she is absorbing life fibers

2. Ryuko has beaten people on par with Goku in skill and martial ability, and skill alone wont help if your opponent is too fast to hit and too durable to hurt

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bruh have you watched the tournament of power? Goku is probably one of the best martial artists ever.

Have you watched Kill la Kill? Because so is Satsuki (so much so that shes currently rated as one of the most skilled fighters on the entire wiki)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Goku becomes more powerful after every single attack, every block and every dodge, his movements become far sharper. Goku’s Reactive Power Level is nigh-passive, as just simply being in the middle of a fight already brings his power level up

Ryuko does literally the same exact thing to a T but more potent in its boosts

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Okay but

1. Ryuko does the exact same thing only better as instead of gradually getting a bit stronger over the course of the fight she jumps to being able to blitz and oneshot her previous self every second she is absorbing life fibers

2. Ryuko has beaten people on par with Goku in skill and martial ability, and skill alone wont help if your opponent is too fast to hit and too durable to hurt

1. This isn’t taking place in the Kill la Kill setting, she doesn’t have access to the Multiverse’s life fibers
2. Goku has far more and far better martial arts skill feats, and yes skill can help. In Dragon Ball it’s left pretty clearly that characters can compete with character stronger than them with skill and experience as shown by Master Roshi

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ryuko does literally the same exact thing to a T but more potent in its boosts

Since her durability is higher, she’s going take barely any damage, her Reactive Evolution is less potent when she doesn’t take severe damage

 

[WeeklyBattles]

1. This isn’t taking place in the Kill la Kill setting, she doesn’t have access to the Multiverse’s life fibers

Verse equalization means yes she would

2. Goku has far more and far better martial arts skill feats, and yes skill can help. In Dragon Ball it’s left pretty clearly that characters can compete with character stronger than them with skill and experience as shown by Master Roshi

There was literally an entire multi-thread discussion about analyzing the feats of the most skilled people on the entire wiki and Satsuki, who Ryuko fought and defeated, was one of the people at the top of the list whereas goku was not

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Since her durability is higher, she’s going take barely any damage, her Reactive Evolution is less potent when she doesn’t take severe damage

Her RPL comes from absorbing life fibers and getting fired up in combat, which amps her to the degree I described, her zenkai isnt her sole source of RPL