Two Space-Time Shattering Protagonists Go At It (Redo)

[BluudyManikin777]

Maybe remove the votes from the OP if the reasonings have been countered, theyre rather misleading

Votes can be removed if they have been countered with reasonable points?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Votes can be removed if they have been countered with reasonable points?

Yes? Otherwis youre leaving vots counted for reasons that are no longer valid

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yes? Otherwis youre leaving vots counted for reasons that are no longer valid

All votes have been removed

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Charging his Kamehameha doesn’t increase his durability, only his AP. Ryuko can still passively shockwave him, if he ITs within her vicinity

Instant transmission kamehameha is nearly instant so he can catch her off guard even when speed equal, like how cell was stronger than him but he still completely caught him off guard and cell couldn't do anything. about the shockwaves, how tf are they passive? Like do you mean they get pulled up automatically? Because if they're passive then she'd constantly be emitting them which I doubt so please clarify. If they are automatic then you can still out speed because charged attacks get stronger AND faster. Since they get faster too he doesn't need to even teleport to blitz with the attack.

I like how the reasoning for winning hre is AP when Ryuko can regen from quite literally everything Goku can throw at her and she gets exponentially stronger and more durable every second of the fight

Regen is limited and goku can bypass up to mid-high regen with blasts which I already explained can get several times stronger than goku's own AP and he already has the AP advantage. And goku also has reactive PL so they cancel each other out.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Instant transmission kamehameha is nearly instant so he can catch her off guard even when speed equal, like how cell was stronger than him but he still completely caught him off guard and cell couldn't do anything. about the shockwaves, how tf are they passive? Like do you mean they get pulled up automatically? Because if they're passive then she'd constantly be emitting them which I doubt so please clarify. If they are automatic then you can still out speed because charged attacks get stronger AND faster. Since they get faster too he doesn't need to even teleport to blitz with the attack.

Regen is limited and goku can bypass up to mid-high regen with blasts which I already explained can get several times stronger than goku's own AP and he already has the AP advantage. And goku also has reactive PL so they cancel each other out.

In episode 3, it is stated that she created shockwaves through sheer willpower. It’s not entirely present throughout the anime, but it’s shown that she can literally just create shockwaves if she wants to. She created one just by literally walking, it takes an incredibly short time for her to activate it. Now that you mention it, it isn’t really passive, but she still activates it if she wants just by literally existing. Also, regarding Ryuko’s Reactive Evolution, she has literally been stated to come back stronger everytime she gets closer to dying. Even if she got hit by a Kamehameha, she could literally become stronger the more damage she takes from it. And reaction speed would also be equal, logically she’d be able to react to such fast attack speed

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

In episode 3, it is stated that she created shockwaves through sheer willpower. It’s not entirely present throughout the anime, but it’s shown that she can literally just create shockwaves if she wants to. She created one just by literally walking, it takes an incredibly short time for her to activate it. Now that you mention it, it isn’t really passive, but she still activates it if she wants just by literally existing. Also, regarding Ryuko’s Reactive Evolution, she has literally been stated to come back stronger everytime she gets closer to dying. Even if she got hit by a Kamehameha, she could literally become stronger the more damage she takes from it. And reaction speed would also be equal, logically she’d be able to react to such fast attack speed

Not as strong as I thought, you know goku can literally do that with his ki too lol and possibly counter her with his own. Anyway this means she has to react and activate it in order for a shockwave to happen. This is bypassed by the fact that goku can literally just appear right next to her and instantly shoot the blast and she won't be able to react even with speed equal. The speed of the attack would be several times faster than goku's PL which would mean it would be even harder for her to activate a shockwave let alone react before getting hit. Reactive evolution is countered by goku's own reactive PL, and if she got hit with a kamehameha she'd just get vaporized from the attack before she can regenerate. Count my vote back ok.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Not as strong as I thought, you know goku can literally do that with his ki too lol and possibly counter her with his own. Anyway this means she has to react and activate it in order for a shockwave to happen. This is bypassed by the fact that goku can literally just appear right next to her and instantly shoot the blast and she won't be able to react even with speed equal. The speed of the attack would be several times faster than goku's PL which would mean it would be even harder for her to activate a shockwave let alone react before getting hit. Reactive evolution is countered by goku's own reactive PL, and if she got hit with a kamehameha she'd just get vaporized from the attack before she can regenerate. Count my vote back ok.

Is there anything that even proves attacks become faster when charged? The only thing I see from it is it scaling higher to their basic AP. Plus, even though he ITs to her, doesn’t mean he can just fire it instantaneously, the teleportation may be fast compared to every other speed statistic, but the attack actually being fired depends on reaction time, which is equal. Ryuko wouldn’t be able to react to his IT, but she is capable of reacting to a Kamehameha before it is shot within point blank range. Regarding the shockwaves, they can be activated literally if she feels like it, it doesn’t take time and literally is created because of her mere willpower and presence

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yes when attacks are charged their power level increases so not just the AP increases. This is why you can scale the speed of characters in DB to the speed of their attacks. Goku can shoot the attack and teleport at the same time effectively cutting the time of shooting the attack. Also these shockwaves must have a limit, can they survive attacks many times their own durability?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yes when attacks are charged their power level increases so not just the AP increases. This is why you can scale the speed of characters in DB to the speed of their attacks. Goku can shoot the attack and teleport at the same time effectively cutting the time of shooting the attack. Also these shockwaves must have a limit, can they survive attacks many times their own durability?

The speed doesn’t even increase significantly enough for someone else not to dodge. And no they can’t, but if Goku got close, I’m pretty sure Ryuko’s willpower shockwave would activate before he could fire the Kamehameha. Literally, if she wanted to, the shockwaves could activate without her even thinking about activating it, essentially meaning the attack is superior to her reaction speed. Also, Goku’s first move isn’t to fire a kamehameha first thing, he fights hand-to-hand and then later on in the fight, like you said he’d later figure out that hand-to-hand combat wouldn’t be effective. He would literally keep physically beating the shit out of her, and she’d continuously get more powerful because of that. Eventually, she’d be able to catch up to Goku’s power level because Goku wanted to throw hands instead of immediately going for the ring out kamehameha

 

[Orange]

Hand to hand is definitely going to goku. Ya know the same guy who can copy, find mistakes and even devolope techniques in seconds. Pressure points are a great tool, he also have prediction based on her stance, superior martial arts skills, and air current, he also have better vision with Ki and can sense if her attacks are serious or just a decoy. So hand to hand is probably not her safest option

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Hand to hand is definitely going to goku. Ya know the same guy who can copy, find mistakes and even devolope techniques in seconds. Pressure points are a great tool, he also have prediction based on her stance, superior martial arts skills, and air current, he also have better vision with Ki and can sense if her attacks are serious or just a decoy. So hand to hand is probably not her safest option

She can literally take the hits. Being able to barely feel the pain via Supernatural Willpower, Regenerate from the wounds she’s given, while Reactive Evolution takes care of her stats. She’s pretty much set with the abilities she has making up for the things she doesn’t have. Literally, even she has exploited her regeneration and reactive evolution, so much so that she purposely puts herself closer to death in order to close power gaps. It’s in character for her to purposefully take hits just to get stronger

 

[Orange]

Ya know saying can grow stronger mindset battle , and besides goku already dwelt with regeneration. And you didn't even say what are her skill, she's strong yes. But skill is also a stat that's very important. He can catch her off hard by instance transmission, shockwaves and Kia to supdsie her, solar flair to blind her, instant kamehameha, keinzan which cuts through enemies that are stronger than the user, UI to make up the speed difference, make his moves more efficient which also makes himself stronger while fighting

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ya know saying can grow stronger mindset battle , and besides goku already dwelt with regeneration. And you didn't even say what are her skill, she's strong yes. But skill is also a stat that's very important. He can catch her off hard by instance transmission, shockwaves and Kia to supdsie her, solar flair to blind her, instant kamehameha, keinzan which cuts through enemies that are stronger than the user, UI to make up the speed difference, make his moves more efficient which also makes himself stronger while fighting

Her skill is mainly with swordsmanship, and not hand-to-hand, as her hand to hand style is more likened to a brawler rather than a martial artist. Shockwaves, she has faster reacting shockwaves, and when she wants can literally be activated before she can even think of shockwaving. Even if Goku were to blind her, or catch her off guard, her shockwaves can take care of any sneak attacks. And if Goku kept attacking her, Ryuko would just keep getting stronger as it goes on, and with the way her reactive evolution works, she gets extremely strong really quick if she’s severely damaged. As for the Adaptation part of her Reactive Evolution, she can also adapt to the situation she’s in to better suit what she truly needs in the heat of battle. In the middle of a fight, she literally adapted to Nonon’s flying, by having Senketsu transform into something that can fly, and was already skilled in doing it; something that happened because “she had an idea”

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The speed doesn’t even increase significantly enough for someone else not to dodge. And no they can’t, but if Goku got close, I’m pretty sure Ryuko’s willpower shockwave would activate before he could fire the Kamehameha. Literally, if she wanted to, the shockwaves could activate without her even thinking about activating it, essentially meaning the attack is superior to her reaction speed. Also, Goku’s first move isn’t to fire a kamehameha first thing, he fights hand-to-hand and then later on in the fight, like you said he’d later figure out that hand-to-hand combat wouldn’t be effective. He would literally keep physically beating the shit out of her, and she’d continuously get more powerful because of that. Eventually, she’d be able to catch up to Goku’s power level because Goku wanted to throw hands instead of immediately going for the ring out kamehameha

Yeah I never said it would be too much for her to dodge, but I did say that she wouldn't be able to because goku would have a point blank attack faster than his own speed. You're contradicting yourself, you said she activates it if she wants to, this means it's only as fast as her reaction now you're saying it's automatic like instinctive reaction, oh and if it's automatic it can still be blitzed BTW. And you ignored my question about the durability of the shockwave so I assume an attack multiple times it's power is enough to destroy it. I also took into account goku's first moves, I said that he'd start with punches but find it pointless so he'll resort to kamehameha, reactive PL gets countered by reactive PL.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yeah I never said it would be too much for her to dodge, but I did say that she wouldn't be able to because goku would have a point blank attack faster than his own speed. You're contradicting yourself, you said she activates it if she wants to, this means it's only as fast as her reaction now you're saying it's automatic like instinctive reaction, oh and if it's automatic it can still be blitzed BTW. And you ignored my question about the durability of the shockwave so I assume an attack multiple times it's power is enough to destroy it. I also took into account goku's first moves, I said that he'd start with punches but find it pointless so he'll resort to kamehameha, reactive PL gets countered by reactive PL.

I meant she could make it a passive if she ever wanted to. Her sheer willpower will act as a way to continuously make shockwaves, her mere existence allows shockwaves to be created if they’re needed. And yes I did answer your question about the shockwave durability, I said “And no, they can’t” in the beginning of my second sentence. And Ryuko will literally exploit her reactive evolution by purposely taking hits, the RE being more potent if an attack brings her closer to death, so everytime Goku hits Ryuko, she would become stronger than she was before that attack even hit her. And Goku might not even use the Kamehameha at all, considering his first sign he kept fighting Jiren hand-to-hand which wasn’t really even changing anything, and they just fought equally. If Ryuko kept taking hits, why would Goku even want to use the Kamehameha? He’d just keep beating her up like there’s no tomorrow, and eventually Ryuko would catch up

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I meant she could make it a passive if she ever wanted to. Her sheer willpower will act as a way to continuously make shockwaves, her mere existence allows shockwaves to be created if they’re needed. And yes I did answer your question about the shockwave durability, I said “And no, they can’t” in the beginning of my second sentence. And Ryuko will literally exploit her reactive evolution by purposely taking hits, the RE being more potent if an attack brings her closer to death, so everytime Goku hits Ryuko, she would become stronger than she was before that attack even hit her. And Goku might not even use the Kamehameha at all, considering his first sign he kept fighting Jiren hand-to-hand which wasn’t really even changing anything, and they just fought equally. If Ryuko kept taking hits, why would Goku even want to use the Kamehameha? He’d just keep beating her up like there’s no tomorrow, and eventually Ryuko would catch up

Goku will stop using physical attacks once he realizes that she can regen and get stronger. What are the limitations of her shockwaves? if they are sound waves and omni directional then goku can counter with his own shockwaves, also these shockwaves have to be powerful enough to blow away someone stronger than the user. And like I said even automatic moves can be blitzed and the shockwaves seem to be reaction based so they have to react to the instant kamehameha first. Also these shockwaves seem very much like instinctive reaction so why is this also not on the profile?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Goku will stop using physical attacks once he realizes that she can regen and get stronger. What are the limitations of her shockwaves? if they are sound waves and omni directional then goku can counter with his own shockwaves, also these shockwaves have to be powerful enough to blow away someone stronger than the user. And like I said even automatic moves can be blitzed and the shockwaves seem to be reaction based so they have to react to the instant kamehameha first. Also these shockwaves seem very much like instinctive reaction so why is this also not on the profile?

But verse isn’t equalized, he can’t use extrasensory perception to sense her energy, because their power systems aren’t even the same. On the other hand, Senketsu can detect someone’s feelings, and how powerful someone is. This isn’t through extrasensory perception, but rather enhanced senses. Senketsu would let Ryuko know this, and she’d try to close the gap by letting herself take hits and get way stronger, she knows mere shockwaves wouldn’t be enough. Regarding the Kamehameha, this is first sign Goku. Second sign Goku went for the Kamehameha because he knew he was running out of time, as for first sign he didn’t know when it would run out. First sign Goku kept fighting Jiren hand-to-hand even though it wasn’t really doing anything that would give him an advantage, Goku still didn’t use the Kamehameha. So, why would Goku even use the Kamehameha, when Ryuko is just letting herself get hit? He wouldn’t even want to resort to it

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Also these shockwaves seem very much like instinctive reaction so why is this also not on the profile?

That isn’t instinctive reaction, as she isn’t doing this through instinct, she’s doing it because of the sheer existence of her willpower

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But verse isn’t equalized, he can’t use extrasensory perception to sense her energy, because their power systems aren’t even the same. On the other hand, Senketsu can detect someone’s feelings, and how powerful someone is. This isn’t through extrasensory perception, but rather enhanced senses. Senketsu would let Ryuko know this, and she’d try to close the gap by letting herself take hits and get way stronger, she knows mere shockwaves wouldn’t be enough. Regarding the Kamehameha, this is first sign Goku. Second sign Goku went for the Kamehameha because he knew he was running out of time, as for first sign he didn’t know when it would run out. First sign Goku kept fighting Jiren hand-to-hand even though it wasn’t really doing anything that would give him an advantage, Goku still didn’t use the Kamehameha. So, why would Goku even use the Kamehameha, when Ryuko is just letting herself get hit? He wouldn’t even want to resort to it

Goku senses life energy to detected how strong someone is why wouldn't it work here, and he also doesn't need to sense energy to tell someone is getting stronger. Goku is in character, he doesn't need to fight exactly the same way he's fought against someone else, he'll see that punches aren't effective because of regen and switch to blasts, and kamehameha into instant transmission, instant transmission spam, shockwave auras etc are all in character for goku. You're using this exact same kind of logic with ryuko too but IDK how she fights so I'm going off what you say.

That isn’t instinctive reaction, as she isn’t doing this because through instinct, she’s doing it because her sheer willpower is doing it just by existing

That the method she uses to cause shockwaves not how they're initiated... you said she causes shockwaves by simply wanting to, meaning it's reaction based, if it isn't instinctive reaction then it's got to be that. which is even worse for her BTW.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Shehasboth pasive and active shockwaves

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Goku senses life energy to detected how strong someone is why wouldn't it work here, and he also doesn't need to sense energy to tell someone is getting stronger. Goku is in character, he doesn't need to fight exactly the same way he's fought against someone else, he'll see that punches aren't effective because of regen and switch to blasts, and kamehameha into instant transmission, instant transmission spam, shockwave auras etc are all in character for goku. You're using this exact same kind of logic with ryuko too but IDK how she fights so I'm going off what you say.

That the method she uses to cause shockwaves not how they're initiated... you said she causes shockwaves by simply wanting to, meaning it's reaction based, if it isn't instinctive reaction then it's got to be that. which is even worse for her BTW.

Sensing life energy is literally not enough to sense ki, which is how a DB character is able to tell how powerful someone is. Goku in character would not resort to the Kamehameha if he doesn’t need to. Yeah, Ryuko may be able to regenerate, but that doesn’t mean Goku would literally go for the overkill if his opponent can’t even match him. Goku’s standard tactic isn’t to go overkill if he sees his opponent isn’t fighting back, that’s something he’d do bloodlusted

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sensing life energy is literally not enough to sense ki, which is how a DB character is able to tell how powerful someone is. Goku in character would not resort to the Kamehameha if he doesn’t need to. Yeah, Ryuko may be able to regenerate, but that doesn’t mean Goku would literally go for the overkill of his opponent can’t even match him

Perhaps, but goku is willing to kill and has limited time, he'll totally go for a finishing move especially when his opponent is getting stronger. Goku also has enhanced senses BTW and like I said, doesn't need to sense KI to figure out how powerful someone is.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Perhaps, but goku is willing to kill and has limited time, he'll totally go for a finishing move especially when his opponent is getting stronger. Goku also has enhanced senses BTW and like I said, doesn't need to sense KI to figure out how powerful someone is.

No, the rule is both are in character, it’s stated in the op. And by the time he realizes he needs to use a finishing move, Ryuko would’ve already surpassed him with the ass beating she’s been taking. Goku didn’t even use Kamehameha against Jiren, and he knew he wasn’t going all out. So Goku using the Kamehameha is unlikely regarding his first sign. If it was his second sign, I’d give it him via the Kamehameha, but first sign is just highly unlikely via what he’s been pulling off at this point

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No, the rule is both are in character, it’s stated in the op. And by the time he realizes he needs to use a finishing move, Ryuko would’ve already surpassed him with the ass beating she’s been taking. Goku didn’t even use Kamehameha against Jiren, and he knew he wasn’t going all out. So Goku using the Kamehameha is unlikely regarding his first sign. If it was his second sign, I’d give it him via the Kamehameha, but first sign is just highly unlikely via what he’s been pulling off at this point

Bro goku's personality didn't change after attaining sign again it's still goku, what your suggesting is that goku can only use physical because he only used physicals in that one fight but literally a few minutes later in the same transformation he used blasts and all his usual attacks. SBA literally says that they are in character but willing to kill and employ their "usual battle strategies". There was nothing stopping goku from using ki attacks against jiren so why should he be restricted from using them just because he didn't use it in one fight? Also goku also keeps getting stronger like ryuko why are you making me repeat myself...

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Bro goku's personality didn't change after attaining sign again it's still goku, what your suggesting is that goku can only use physical because he only used physicals in that one fight but literally a few minutes later in the same transformation he used blasts and all his usual attacks. SBA literally says that they are in character but willing to kill and employ their "usual battle strategies". There was nothing stopping goku from using ki attacks against jiren so why should he be restricted from using them just because he didn't use it in one fight? Also goku also keeps getting stronger like ryuko why are you making me repeat myself...

I’m not saying he’s unable to use it, I literally gave reasons as to why it’s unlikely Goku wouldn’t use it. I didn’t say he didn’t use ki blasts against Jiren so he wouldn’t here, I said since Ryuko is weaker than Goku, it’s unlikely Goku would use the Kamehameha right away. Goku still does want to win, just not in the kamehameha first way because he wouldn’t go for that first thing in character. And their reactive power levels work differently. Goku gets stronger as the fight goes on, not significantly but it’s notable, as for Ryuko, she gets stronger the closer she is to death. The significance of her power increase is entirely dependent on the damage she takes. A small scratch, not notable enough to be considered becoming stronger, but still technically did. As for a large hole in her body, her power boost is incredibly significant. Her taking a crapload of punches from Goku is going to be enough for her to become equal to Goku. Goku’s reactive power level hasn’t been shown to be that potent, it’s only shown to be significant after completely healing from a large amount of injuries

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I’m not saying he’s unable to use it, I literally gave reasons as to why it’s unlikely Goku wouldn’t use it. I didn’t say he didn’t use ki blasts against Jiren so he wouldn’t here, I said since Ryuko is weaker than Goku, it’s unlikely Goku would use the Kamehameha right away. Goku still does want to win, just not in the kamehameha first way because he wouldn’t go for that first thing in character. And their reactive power levels work differently. Goku gets stronger as the fight goes on, not significantly but it’s notable, as for Ryuko, she gets stronger the closer she is to death. The significance of her power increase is entirely dependent on the damage she takes. A small scratch, not notable enough to be considered becoming stronger, but still technically did. As for a large hole in her body, her power boost is incredibly significant. Her taking a crapload of punches from Goku is going to be enough for her to become equal to Goku. Goku’s reactive power level hasn’t been shown to be that potent, it’s only shown to be significant after completely healing from a large amount of injuries

Ok bro, I already took that into account, you see goku isn't stupid he's extremely intelligent in fighting, he'll see that pounding ryuko (pause) won't work because of her regen and is pointless since it just makes her stronger, that's why he'll very soon switch to the kamehameha strategy. And BTW the AP advantage isn't huge so goku will be out skilling and overpowering but he won't be taking out chunks of flesh with each punch or anything like that so he power gain won't be very large, another thing is that goku's reactive PL is actually pretty significant, he gets sharper and stronger after every attack and his UI gets better the longer he uses it, BTW UI has this power that make sgoku actually keep getting stronger just normally and this is already beside his saiyan physiology ability.

 

[Tyranno223]

I’m not saying he’s unable to use it, I literally gave reasons as to why it’s unlikely Goku wouldn’t use it. I didn’t say he didn’t use ki blasts against Jiren so he wouldn’t here, I said since Ryuko is weaker than Goku, it’s unlikely Goku would use the Kamehameha right away. Goku still does want to win, just not in the kamehameha first way because he wouldn’t go for that first thing in character. And their reactive power levels work differently. Goku gets stronger as the fight goes on, not significantly but it’s notable, as for Ryuko, she gets stronger the closer she is to death. The significance of her power increase is entirely dependent on the damage she takes. A small scratch, not notable enough to be considered becoming stronger, but still technically did. As for a large hole in her body, her power boost is incredibly significant. Her taking a crapload of punches from Goku is going to be enough for her to become equal to Goku. Goku’s reactive power level hasn’t been shown to be that potent, it’s only shown to be significant after completely healing from a large amount of injuries

Goku's reactive power level isn't limited to his zenkai ability, he quite literally gets stronger as he fights, with it being stated in the verse itself. This is shown to be even greater in UI, where literally every single attack was desctibed to be superior to the last in his very first usage of UI, wherein his understanding of UI's ability was at its lowest, with him later going from being overpowered by Jiren's limit break state, to easily overwhelming him, even prior to prior to being enraged.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Goku's reactive power level isn't limited to his zenkai ability, he quite literally gets stronger as he fights, with it being stated in the verse itself. This is shown to be even greater in UI, where literally every single attack was desctibed to be superior to the last in his very first usage of UI, wherein his understanding of UI's ability was at its lowest, with him later going from being overpowered by Jiren's limit break state, to easily overwhelming him, even prior to prior to being enraged.

I said “Goku gets stronger as the fight goes on, not significantly but it’s notable.” And since every attack because sharper after each attack, Ryuko would take even more damage from Goku, essentially Reactive Evolving herself to Goku’s power level, because she gets stronger after every attack thrown at her

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ok bro, I already took that into account, you see goku isn't stupid he's extremely intelligent in fighting, he'll see that pounding ryuko (pause) won't work because of her regen and is pointless since it just makes her stronger, that's why he'll very soon switch to the kamehameha strategy. And BTW the AP advantage isn't huge so goku will be out skilling and overpowering but he won't be taking out chunks of flesh with each punch or anything like that so he power gain won't be very large, another thing is that goku's reactive PL is actually pretty significant, he gets sharper and stronger after every attack and his UI gets better the longer he uses it, BTW UI has this power that make sgoku actually keep getting stronger just normally and this is already beside his saiyan physiology ability.

Goku wasn’t even doing any whatsoever damage to Jiren in his first sign, and he’s supposed to see that continuously fighting Jiren hand-to-hand was doing literally nothing. He should’ve went for the Kamehameha that time. So I find it vague that Goku would go for the Kamehameha when he’s just beating Ryuko while she does nothing, even though she regenerates. And for everytime Goku gets hit, he gets stronger, while it leaves Ryuko room to be able to evolve from this

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah Ryuko's RE is way more potent than Goku's. Goku's is 'gets a bit stronger every second hes in a fight' Ryuko's is 'gets exponentially stronger every second she exists and every time she takes a strong hit she stomps her previous strength level'

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Wait isn’t there a scaling chain for Kill la Kill’s Universe level+ Characters? Or are all characters baseline, cuz I’m pretty sure Ryuko is superior to the Primordial life fiber

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku wasn’t even doing any whatsoever damage to Jiren in his first sign, and he’s supposed to see that continuously fighting Jiren hand-to-hand was doing literally nothing. He should’ve went for the Kamehameha that time. So I find it vague that Goku would go for the Kamehameha when he’s just beating Ryuko while she does nothing, even though she regenerates. And for everytime Goku gets hit, he gets stronger, while it leaves Ryuko room to be able to evolve from this

Well that could be PIS but there are other possible reasons, goku is usually very strategic against tougher opponents like when he was SSB vs jiren post sign 2 I think, that time he also had no idea what was going on with his body and was likely experimenting, goku will most likely fight ryuko and realize it's pointless very quickly and would just go for the kamehameha strategy. Also has ryuko ever just stood still and let herself get hit just to get stronger? Also Goku's reactive PL is very powerful too he was insanely stronger at the end of the torunament than in the beginning and most of it was from just reactive evolution.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also has ryuko ever just stood still and let herself get hit just to get stronger?

Several times yes, hell that was her main strategy in the final fight against the main antagonist

Also Goku's reactive PL is very powerful too he was insanely stronger at the end of the torunament than in the beginning and most of it was from just reactive evolution.

Okay but that's still a negligible difference obtained over a long period of fighting, Ryuko's boosts are instantaneous and massive. Basically it's like when a character in DB gets way stronger from a zenkai only hers is more efficient because she can instantly regen from lethal damage.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Well that could be PIS but there are other possible reasons, goku is usually very strategic against tougher opponents like when he was SSB vs jiren post sign 2 I think, that time he also had no idea what was going on with his body and was likely experimenting, goku will most likely fight ryuko and realize it's pointless very quickly and would just go for the kamehameha strategy. Also has ryuko ever just stood still and let herself get hit just to get stronger? Also Goku's reactive PL is very powerful too he was insanely stronger at the end of the torunament than in the beginning and most of it was from just reactive evolution.

She never just stays still, rather purposely throws herself at attacks. If there’s an incoming attack, she’d literally just purposely get hit from it. Goku might not even go for the Kamehameha, considering that even going hand-to-hand with Jiren was literally pointless as physical attacks were doing nothing. So I don’t see why Goku would go for it, considering he literally did not resort to the Kamehameha even though he knew he was not pushing Jiren back, especially using it against someone who doesn’t seem to be fighting back

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

She never just stays still, rather purposely throws herself at attacks. If there’s an incoming attack, she’d literally just purposely get hit from it. Goku might not even go for the Kamehameha, considering that even going hand-to-hand with Jiren was literally pointless as physical attacks were doing nothing. So I don’t see why Goku would go for it, considering he literally did not resort to the Kamehameha even though he knew he was not pushing Jiren back, especially using it against someone who doesn’t seem to be fighting back

Holy shit she throws herself at attacks? so scenario "Goku punches ryuko, she heals and gets stronger, goku notices and charges attack and blasts, ryuko lets herself be hit, ryuko gets vaporized". Lmao this could literally happen going off what you said.
Difference between ryuko and jiren examples is jiren >>> Goku (goku probably knew this too) while ryuko < Goku. If goku sees that he can kill her then he'd just charge the attack to max and blast her.
And BTW bro, Goku DID use a blast (at the very end of their fight) that did NOTHING to jiren so goku not using blasts isn't true, he'd still totally go for the kamehameha.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Holy shit she throws herself at attacks? so scenario "Goku punches ryuko, she heals and gets stronger, goku notices and charges attack and blasts, ryuko lets herself be hit, ryuko gets vaporized". Lmao this could literally happen going off what you said.
Difference between ryuko and jiren examples is jiren >>> Goku (goku probably knew this too) while ryuko < Goku. If goku sees that he can kill her then he'd just charge the attack to max and blast her.
And BTW bro, Goku DID use a blast (at the very end of their fight) that did NOTHING to jiren so goku not using blasts isn't true, he'd still totally go for the kamehameha.

In the first UIO fight, Goku never went for a Kamehameha against Jiren whatsoever. And bringing up an old point, even if Goku were to go for the Kamehameha, he would’ve first have to physically beat Ryuko to realize it won’t work, then he’d go for it, but by the time he realizes, Ryuko would have already caught up to Goku. Ryuko can literally exponentially evolve while being enveloped in the Kamehameha, eventually being able to overcome the Kamehameha itself, that’s how potent Ryuko’s Reactive Evolution is. But as per reasons above, Goku would unlikely go for the Kamehameha as even fighting Jiren physically in first sign wasn’t doing anything to Jiren, and he still kept doing it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well he doesn't need to use a kamehameha against jiren to use a kamehameha in this battle... He literally used it against kefla in the same form a few minutes apart from his first sign (Kefla and goku were very close in power and goku still used a kamehameha charged), I already gave you other reasons why goku would realize that physicals aren't effective and prioritize ending the fight.

But as per reasons above, Goku would unlikely go for the Kamehameha as even fighting Jiren physically in first sign wasn’t doing anything to Jiren, and he still kept doing it

Difference between ryuko and jiren examples is jiren >>> Goku (goku probably knew this too) while ryuko < Goku. If goku sees that he can kill her then he'd just charge the attack to max and blast her.
Goku reactive PL is still potent enough since he was getting stronger constantly in UI not counting the saiyan physiology reactive PL. And ryuko needs to heal to get stronger why would she get stronger while getting erased? Also even if she catches up, the attack is still many times goku's PL and it bypasses regen way higher than ryuko can heal.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Well he doesn't need to use a kamehameha against jiren to use a kamehameha in this battle... He literally used it against kefla in the same form a few minutes apart from his first sign (Kefla and goku were very close in power and goku still used a kamehameha charged), I already gave you other reasons why goku would realize that physicals aren't effective and prioritize ending the fight.

Difference between ryuko and jiren examples is jiren >>> Goku (goku probably knew this too) while ryuko < Goku. If goku sees that he can kill her then he'd just charge the attack to max and blast her.
Goku reactive PL is still potent enough since he was getting stronger constantly in UI not counting the saiyan physiology reactive PL. And ryuko needs to heal to get stronger why would she get stronger while getting erased? Also even if she catches up, the attack is still many times goku's PL and it bypasses regen way higher than ryuko can heal.

Energy waves don’t completely obliterate people unless there’s a significant difference in power level. As it stands, Ryuko and Goku would be equal by the time Goku goes for the Kamehameha. Even when charged, it isn’t significantly more powerful to the point where he can just completely obliterate someone. And as WeeklyBattles brought up, Ryuko does continuously evolve in battle, even though nothing is currently going on, it’s just Reactive Evolution is more potent if she’s actually doing something, and far more potent when she’s taking damage. Her regeneration is so potent to the point where she regenerates in the middle of an attack doing something; such as her regeneration taking place in the middle of her getting stabbed. Ragyo (who is superior to Ryuko at this point) was continuously barrage stabbing Ryuko, and she just shrugged it off like nothing ever happened. Ryuko would not be able to feel the pain from the Kamehameha, and would just keep regenerating in the middle of being enveloped within it

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

After reading this, I'mma go with Ryuko FRA

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Energy waves don’t completely obliterate people unless there’s a significant difference in power level. As it stands, Ryuko and Goku would be equal by the time Goku goes for the Kamehameha. Even when charged, it isn’t significantly more powerful to the point where he can just completely obliterate someone. And as WeeklyBattles brought up, Ryuko does continuously evolve in battle, even though nothing is currently going on, it’s just Reactive Evolution is more potent if she’s actually doing something, and far more potent when she’s taking damage. Her regeneration is so potent to the point where she regenerates in the middle of an attack doing something; such as her regeneration taking place in the middle of her getting stabbed. Ragyo (who is superior to Ryuko at this point) was continuously barrage stabbing Ryuko, and she just shrugged it off like nothing ever happened. Ryuko would not be able to feel the pain from the Kamehameha, and would just keep regenerating in the middle of being enveloped within it

That's assuming that goku doesn't immediately notice that ryuko is getting stronger from regen and switch to the kamehameha immediately, and Ki attacks obliterate up to mid high regen which is way higher than ryuko's regen and a being like majin buu whose regen is superior to high mid (mid high) died and couldn't recover from getting attacked by the spirit bomb, also gohan obliterated every cell in cells body when cell was literally on the same PL as him during the beam clash which further prove that even equal opponents can obliterate each other with a charged ki attack. I feel like I've addressed all the points clearly and don't really find any reason to continue further, so I still go with goku.