Touhou Thread 3: Electric Bangaloo: Doremy Sweet's MSS and MFTL+ Adventure, Infinite Speed Tendency and Large Planet Crusader

[Yamatohime]

Well even then I doubt any Baku would have the power to recreate Makai in it's entirety.

After all I kind of doubt that she need to create entire Makai. She have to create small portion based on... Some resembalance to Makai. The perception of youkais and humans are not infinite...

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Prom in that case would Planetary Marisa and other hi tiers be something you approve of?

And that's why I recommend the similar even with Shinki. The possibility of it being illussions. So we could add in Potentially 4-A, or something like that.

 

[Yamatohime]

And that's why I recommend the similar even with Shinki. The possibility of it being illussions. So we could add in Potentially 4-A, or something like that.

Well, that's true. But Makai is called infinite... So it's more plausible to have real stars in infinite space.

 

[Promestein]

Large Planet level: Reimu, Marisa, Miko, Byakuren, Kanako, Suwako, Utsuho, presumably Sanae with prep, probably Flandre

At least Large Planet level: Yukari, Suika, Yuugi, Eirin, probably Clownpiece

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Very true. But yeah like I said, Potential things aren't really absolute. Of course we also go with Potentailly higher anyway, But as a low ground, well we discussed it above

 

[Yamatohime]

What's about Patchy and Alice? Should at least Patchy get some small upgrade?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

They could scale off a bit off of Marisa but then again Marisa focuses on raw power while those two are more finesse and haxx oriented. I recall drac talking about how Alice has soul magic

 

[Promestein]

Well, they'd definitely be way higher than their current ratings, but I don't know where they'd go, specifically.

It could be argued that the likes of Patchouli, Alice, and Remilia should be able to at least match a casual spell card from Marisa.

 

[Yamatohime]

Patchy is more about deep knowledge and fire-power. Alice is outright about skill and vast amount knowledge (but she is the most experienced dealing with Marisa since they fight almost on daily basis).

Remilia should be able to keep up with Flandre though...

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Prom No idea either. Planetary might be pushing it.

That would make sense with country level scaling then.

@Yama Pretty much. Though I feel like Grimoire Alice as you argued before would let her catch up. Just like you said.

What level would Flandre be though?

 

[Promestein]

Patchouli is inconsistent due to her poor health, but yes, she has sufficient firepower and should probably be in the same league as Marisa.

The thing is, it's hard to tell whether or not Remilia could keep up with Flandre due to legitimately being at least vaguely comparable, or by abusing fate manipulation, however it works. But if Patchouli was 5-A, Remilia would probably scale.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It was stated Flandre is much more powerful than Remilia in Destructie power however.

 

[Promestein]

That's probably because of her special powers, but, yeah.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

What the heck, the thread glitched out on me. In any case yeah Prom just cleared up my doubts on Patchhy and Alice.

In terms of that, I would say Remi with Haxx = Flan with Destroy. But in terms of AP Flan wins while Remi wins by haxx

 

[Promestein]

Remilia's fate manipulation has no confirmed showings and has nothing but theories, both in-universe and out of universe, on how it works. So who even knows.

 

[Yamatohime]

Patchy was able to hold Flandre with her spells in 6, wasn't she?

Remilia should be stronger compared to Alice but not far behind of Patchy and Flandre... Maybe stage behind?

Grimoire Alice can climb up to casual Shinki level (or even stronger since she wipes floor with Shinki in fanon). But we'd better leave her behind. Alice could keep up with Marisa via skill and speed...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Patchy used water, which is a vampire weakness.

 

[Promestein]

Patchy was able to hold Flandre with her spells in 6, wasn't she?

Patchouli made it rain, and Flandre can't go out in the rain. Vampire.

 

[Yamatohime]

Patchy used water, which is a vampire weakness.

So it's affect even Flandre's Destructive power?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I'm pretty sure Flandre thought they were weak to water. But they're really not.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Is it safe to scale Eiki to all this madness? I mean even without the whole "Hurr durr Reimu + Yukari + Yuyuko gets stomped by Yama" she is like really powerful.

 

[Promestein]

Probably. Even if she's not stronger than all those people she should be at least somewhat comparable. But who knows.

 

[Yamatohime]

Is it safe to scale Eiki to all this madness? I mean even without the whole "Hurr durr Reimu + Yukari + Yuyuko gets stomped by Yama" she is like really powerful.

Not stomp but rather... Hm... Useless battle.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Useless to Argue with.~

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

As for the 4-A and MSS things, the question of weather or not those are reals or not is still out there, but in my opinion, it definitively shouldn't be just ignored, but adding it as the main stat may be a bit much, so I propose this:

At least 5-A, possibly 4-A: Doremy, Sagume, Eiri

At least 5-A possibly 4-C to 4-A: Yorihime and Toyohime

At least 4-C, possibly 4-A: Junko and Hecatia

For speed, guessing that if 4-A is accepted as possibly, it would be too.

At least Relativistic with Speed of Light reactions, possibly Massively FTL+: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako, Miko, Byakuren, Reisen, Kaguya, Mokou, Eirin, Remilia, Flandre, Aya, Youmu, Yuyuko, Junko, Hecatia, Doremy, Yorihihme, Toyohime, Sagume, Suika, Yukari, Yuugi, Clownpiece, Eiki, Yuuka, Utsuho, Seiran, Ringo (Damn that's a lot of peeps)

 

[Andykhang]

^Hm, it should be...fine? Have no real opinion about this except you don't put others into MFTL+ (Like Aya or Clownpiece or Seiran)

 

[Yamatohime]

Let's just drop it for awhile. MFTL+ speed. Since I kind of doubt it as combat speed.

 

[Andykhang]

Ok, to recap:

Dream's thing: Set the feat of Doremy Sweet to be at least Large Planet level, right? I think it should be at least Moon Lever though, aside from the obvious , the passage could be shortened since i don't think the Lunarian like to travel the distance of 300,000km everytime to reach Earth, and Doremy could just shorten it to indirectly guide them to the true Lunar Capital.

Speed's feat: Nothing change, except the assigning of MTFL+. I also don't think so, since having the Fairy, who could be defeated by normal human, having Relativistic speed is too much already (that mean bumping even the ordinary human in there at such).

Marisa: The planet thing is just a commentary comparing them to the actual Asteroid Belt . So this isn't going to count.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Actual Asteroid belts don't move planets, let alone Large ones.

About speed, Clownpiece is ridiculously above any others Fairy, so MFTL+ doesn't apply to any other fairy or low tier peeps. The Moon rabbits are also quite above average youkai and humans, so they only really scales to eachothers and Kaguya and Mokou.

@Yama they fight all the way in that feat.

 

[Andykhang]

^According to Reisen though, Moon rabbit isn't a Lunarian, but rather slave to them. An actual Moon Rabbit also descent to Gensokyo, and nearly got killed by the Youkai.

And also: Moving from Earth to Moon =/= MFTL+, even if lightspeed is casual. More so with the mook.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

As I said, said movement is in the Dream World and doesn't represent the actual irl distance. It also seems unlikely Doremy made them go faster or shortened the distance, considering her job was to keep them away after all.

@Andy Well tbf said Rabbit wasn't a trained soldier and was little more than a pet. Also, pretty sure Spell Card rules applied.

 

[Andykhang]

If the movement isn't your proof, then i hardly see anything that would indicate the hell fairy actually going MFTL+, at all. At most, they would have SOL reaction like other fairy of her size.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean that because the Dream World leading up to the Moon doesn't mean that it's simply 300 000 kilometers. Fairies that appears in the Dream Worlds are dreams constructs and not real ones so they can't be added in scaling, and Clownpiece is literally strong than peeps who possess enough power to rules over ONIS of all things, so yeah Clownpiece is certainly above simple fairies.

 

[Andykhang]

^That's because the fairies that invading the Lunar Capital is filled with life (and that's temporary), and they themselve are embodiment of life, so for the Lunarian that think life bring end to eternity, they're the worst enemies. It's not like their actual strength is any better than mid-tier Youkai or anything.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Nah, clownpiece was stated to have outright higher power than Kishins, not just against lunarians. Not only that but ZUN stated that Junko's power essentially allows her to makes gods, and she used said power on her hell fairies.

 

[Andykhang]

What is the source that stated that Clownpiece is stronger than Kishin (either the hermit killer or the unfortunate)? Also, you do know that the one that made leaf brown by painting it, and made leaf fall by knocking into it, is also a god in Shinto? Even if she does turn her into god, you need a lot of tales and faith to actually become strong.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"They say that a refined fairy's energy

exceeds even that of a kishi."

Reisen's Scenario in LoLk when she fights Clownpiece.

 

[Andykhang]

^It said from Clownpiece, you know how reliable fairy is as thing? It's probably just something Junko said to give these girl a motivation boost. And beside, we have no idea the different in power between the kishin and the lunarian.

And even if it so, isn't that like a one-time thing? Usually the more pure they're, the more they can easily being corrupted by the surrounding, so i doubt she could hold that for long. Or are you suggesting Junko periodically "refresh" her to keep having that massive power?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We do know Kishin >>> Onis, even if it doesn't include Suika she probably wouldn't be that much below top tiers of Gensokyo. Also, if Junko said it, it's unlikely to be exageratted, since Junko is pretty straightforward.

Not the same kind of purity. They are just kinds "pure elemental" of life force, they haven't been shown weakening or something in contact with impurity, unlike the Lunarians. Even then, her stats would be like "Possibly MFTL+ at her peak" if that's the case, but pretty sure it isn't.

 

[Andykhang]

^But isn't she pretty much goaded Hecate into joining her for her revenge? And even smart enough to corner the Lunarian for half a year. I still doubt her word.

And pretty much Clownpiece isn't going to hold it once she die and revive anyway, since that state of her would have been destroyed and reconstructed by nature. Also, "No upgrade until feat" thing.