Touhou Thread 3: Electric Bangaloo: Doremy Sweet's MSS and MFTL+ Adventure, Infinite Speed Tendency and Large Planet Crusader

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Like I said, either it's the same things that happens with Youkai, or it's Doremy who does it. The latter seems more likely, considering her job is to create dreams.

 

[Yamatohime]

Minor reality warping and massive illusions in the special reality...

Additionaly, what make me wonder... The Fake Lunar Capital probably wasn't created by Doremy by herself.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Do you even have anything saying it's a bunch of illusions m8?

Why so? It was stated she made it, no other baku was mentioned

 

[Yamatohime]

Where it was mentioned that SHE created them. All I've read she is creator of dreams... And it is not really need a lot of power to arrange some illusion to create dreams. Since Dream World was already created.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There isn't any other baku to creates such dreams, and she seems to be the ruler of the place.

Again, where does it says it's all just illusions?

 

[Yamatohime]

There isn't any other baku to creates such dreams, and she seems to be the ruler of the place.

Please, you started the whole thread... So I want to read the script where Reisen points out that Doremy is the Ruler? You didn't prove that they were actual things...

Additionaly Reisen outright state: "Putting an enemy in a passageway that only rabbits use... It's obvious they're trying to lure me, or somebody, in..." Doremy is not a ruler... She is just the type of youkai, the most dangerour type in Dream World.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"

Ruler of Dreams"

"​

She can erase, create and switch out those very dreams."

"What's the most dangerous youkai in the Dream Worldthis place

doing here in front of me?"

At the very least she has control over a lot of dreams in the Dream World, if not its outright ruler. Either way, as I said, the dreams that the Protags goes through have been made for them, or at least for people trying to cross, and Doremy takes care of said dream. There isn't any mentions of others Baku anywhere near this Dream World.

 

[Yamatohime]

The Baku are rulers of dreams... Nothing changed from actual myths. But I do not see any evidence that she created everything or even majority.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yama Yama, love how you skip out on the illussions thing when Saikou is asking you. Gotta be more discrete in changing the subject you know.

Sides, what's the most dangerous thing inside a dream world? Well whatever created it right? Still catching up with everything said here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

4-A Touhou is an Outlier in my opinion, by the way.

Hou Yi blowing up many suns with his arrows is FAR from MMS level. At best it'd be High 4-C.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

She was assinged to create the Fake Lunar Capital and to lure peeps into going to the fake Lunar Capital. Thus, she most likely made the very way to the Lunar Capital. As I said again, she made the dreams of the Lunar Capital and of Outer Space that the protags have.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Matt The only Non-Casual feats for the god tiers is Hou Yi's feats and this one right now, so I wouldn't think Outlier. As for HOW Hou Yi destroyed the Suns, it's not stated, unlike the original myth, so we can't say he just blew them up one by one.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Saikou

I still wouldn't consider the stars in the Dream World to be actual stars located thousands of Lightyears away.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well like I mentioned earlier, most things in the Dream World are fully functional and physical (Even when it isn't actually useful) as proven by the full Lunar Capital, and these stars seems to be fully 3D instead of just being an effect.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

What if we make it moon level to MSS instead then? Similar way to Shinki at least.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Eh, it's safer I guess, although if that's the case, the MFTL+ thing would most likely be "Possibly" here. (I'll be away for a while, so don't except me to post much today)

 

[Yamatohime]

They're probably real stars... After all the Dream World is mirroring the Real World. Doremy didn't create them (at least there weren't shown evidence). The same problem actualy with Shinki (real or not real stars are on BG)... But since Touhou 12 told us that Makai is outright infinite... I kind of accept it though.

I think creating the Fake Lunar Capital is at best Island Level feat since there're high probability that the Moon of the Dream World wasn't created by Doremy.

Eating and Creating dreams is more like directing dreams instead of outright act of creation. Minor creation still possible and plausible.

Yama Yama, love how you skip out on the illussions thing when Saikou is asking you. Gotta be more discrete in changing the subject you know.
Sides, what's the most dangerous thing inside a dream world? Well whatever created it right? Still catching up with everything said here

Yeah, but Doremy didn't create it. She was assigned by Higher Ups to look after it. Especialy this particular part, called passageway. And I directly answered about illusions: no real creation => illusions for me.

P.S.: Interesting part about Makai and Dream World. Both appeared in PC-98 games. But by the looks of it... Makai is still Makai (the same kanji) while we have THREE versions of the Dream World.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>High probablity

Where that? It was said she created the Lunar Capital, and she first guides them to her creation (The "Fake" lunar capital) which happens to be the whole moon.

>Higher Up

Literally where? She was the only person in any kind of position of power in the whole dream world, and she was the one responsable for creating the whole Fake Lunar Capital thing. There wasn't any mention of anyone else being responsible for this, except Sagume, who ordered her to.

>No real Creation => Illusions

No reasons to think some part of the Dream is Real while some are illusions just because.

PS: Yeah there were like 3280248012 kinds of Dream Worlds in PC-98, but it seems like they were just generic location for final bossess, Windows has more lore on how it works.

 

[Yamatohime]

The funny thing about Dream World from PC-98 era. It was hyperdimension space that connected Our World and Makai. It was created by Mugetsu and Gengetsu. Both are demons... Probably from Makai. So we have creators of Makai and Dream World from PC-98 era. Both outright claimed that. Both dream worlds are separate pocket dimensions of the same world (because of the same kanji).

The Dream World from LoLK used the same way... As hyperdimension to travel from Earth to Moon.

Basicaly I do not believe that Doremy created the whole dream world... And even this small passageway. But even creation of passageway is Large Planet level though...

 

[Andykhang]

Reimu infinity speed: I remember that someone suggested for her to be Immeasureable, and this give out exactly why it is... Well, you can't aim too high though.

And I have nearly no opinion in Dream World, except that it's at least Large Planet Level. Even we could made holographic star that seem like it's moving with us after all.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I never said she create the whole dream world, just the place they are in, which seems to be the case.

@Abdy there are no reasons to think those stars are fake

 

[Andykhang]

^There's also no reasons to think it's real. Well, the common ground is that the star in there is definitively not the real star in the Physical World, where it's a floating gas nuclear chamber.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Look, I just find God Tiers being at 4-A a massive outlier when contrasted with 5-B and Higher Top Tiers... It just seems weird. How the hell was there even an Youkai War and how can a Stage 4 boss have a feat that puts her above everything else in the Verse.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Considering that Shinki is already a high tier herself, well it's not really that big of a contrast.

Not to mention Stages doesn't always define everything. I mean come on, Yuyuko = Cirno? Sure the stages are good to figure out how the power ladder works but it's more like a guidelines than anything.


Still the middle ground seems to be on "Whether the stars in the Dream World" are real or not. So why don't we put it on a middle ground then? Then again if Doremy can somehow push away the moon from the Gensokyoans since she's trying to separate them from that goal too. Well if she really did create the place then that would make sense. But the likelihood of that is already high enough

 

[Andykhang]

Oh yeah, what spell of Marisa does it said to have pulled two large planet? I need source for that.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Gonna link it below. It was an outlier below. But now? Well not so much. Sides, isn't it natural for main characters to be stronger than the enemies they beat?


Ú¡öþ®║ÒÇîÒéóÒé╣ÒâåÒâ¡ÒéñÒâëÒâÖÒâ½ÒâêÒÇì Magic Space "Asteroid Belt"

Asteroid belt that can put two large planets away.

The stars Marisa shoots look like something out of a comic, though.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Stage_4B

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Matt It's a pretty strong point that Lunarians >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gensokyo, to the point of annoying most of the fandom. And as previously said, Stage position =/= Power, just looks at Yuugi, or Yuyuko. Also as mentioned earlier, Marisa isn't that weak, she is on par with Reimu, who is reputed to be pretty strong. And with the Religious Leaders having similar feats.

@Andy

There is tho..?

We have proof of dreams things being physical and being able to affect the physical bodies of the Protags (Nightmare fragments hitting peeps), and we have a proof that Doremy created at least the Lunar Capital, if not the setting the protags are in it (Being ordered to do so, and the setting fittng the Protag's dreams).

 

[Promestein]

We can't use the logic of "main character should be stronger than a character they beat" when it comes to Touhou because of the Spellcard rules.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well yeah, but they aren't bottom tier either.

 

[Promestein]

Of course not. That's made pretty clear.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

My bad on that, and yeah spellcard issues and all. But yeah it's not as if Patchouli and Alice would get planet level feats just because Marisa focuses on raw power.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Actually, isn't Reimu considered a Religious leader of sort? Like on par with Byakuren & Co? Seems like she was treated that way in HM. Wouldn't that makes her on parts with them? It doesn't change anything right now but it would makes her on part with their Smol star thing.

 

[Promestein]

Actually, isn't Reimu considered a Religious leader of sort? Like on par with Byakuren & Co? Seems like she was treated that way in HM. Wouldn't that makes her on parts with them? It doesn't change anything right now but it would makes her on part with their Smol star thing.

I mean, maybe? And what Small star thing? I seem to be missing things.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well the creating Senkai thing, Not entirely sure how Small Star level works, but I think half the size of the sun would be small star.

 

[Yamatohime]

Not to mention Stages doesn't always define everything. I mean come on, Yuyuko = Cirno? Sure the stages are good to figure out how the power ladder works but it's more like a guidelines than anything.

Nope. The only ones that rule close to... Is that EXTRA bosses usualy not far behind with FINAL ones. Be it power level or hax.

Still the middle ground seems to be on "Whether the stars in the Dream World" are real or not. So why don't we put it on a middle ground then? Then again if Doremy can somehow push away the moon from the Gensokyoans since she's trying to separate them from that goal too. Well if she really did create the place then that would make sense. But the likelihood of that is already high enough

Nope, I still do not see any evidence that it was completely created by Doremy. Considering it was used for millenia by the Reisen's comment. And push the Moon? Where it happened? Could you link me to the script? Do you really believe it was pushing instead of illusion?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well the way itself was created long ago, but as I said, the space background was most likely created by Doremy herself, as it matches the Protag's dreams.

 

[Promestein]

And where, exactly, does half the size of the sun come from? If it's just a planet and a moon, it'd probably be Large Planet level, which seems more consistent. As consistent as things can get.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well, the distance between the moon and Earth is 300 000 km-ish, and since it's just a single direction, it's probably just the radius, thus making the diameter 700 00 km-ish, while the sun is 1 300 000 km-ish in diameter.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well the way itself was created long ago, but as I said, the space background was most likely created by Doremy herself, as it matches the Protag's dreams.

Space BG... Is Space BG. I can create one in the room with projector. SO... Am I MSS level? At best, it is illusion creation power. It's a pity that Alice wasn't in the cast. Her ability to see through illusion could be handy for us.

Well, the distance between the moon and Earth is 300 000 km-ish, and since it's just a single direction, it's probably just the radius, thus making the diameter 700 00 km-ish, while the sun is 1 300 000 km-ish in diameter.

It's mor like cylinder... Since it's called passageway.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well generic space background would be just 2-D and flat, and most likely wouldn't move, which isn't the case here. Again, most, if not all things in a dream are physical and real in Touhou.