Touhou Thread 3: Electric Bangaloo: Doremy Sweet's MSS and MFTL+ Adventure, Infinite Speed Tendency and Large Planet Crusader

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

@Yama true on the first part, second part, ehhhh

Come on, it's not as if they showed Doremy's age either. Why did you think Reisen was so afraid?

I'm talking about this. If she's told to keep them away from the moon, wouldn't she try to make it so that the protagonists can't reach the moon? It's kinda similar to a person making the distance infinite- what I mean is that there's a possibility that Doremy is spatially manipulating the dream world in order for the main characters to not reach it until they defeat her. Would explain why the stars are moving so fast.

And large planet seems legit. Well what I mean is that I want small star but I'll take large planet. And I remember it being the calculation to find out the distance of the Earth to the moon, and adding that value to the moon size and Earth size

Edit -

@Yama No. Just no Sides, the moon is still there alongside the universe there.

 

[Yamatohime]

Spatial Manipulation is actuly the first one... After all 500 000 km is 2 seconds voyage for lightspeed characters. But it can be illusions all the way, that do not allow to move in the straight line.

@Yama No. Just no Sides, the moon is still there alongside the universe there.
Still can be cylindrical pocket space with Earth and Moon on both sides. I don't see any problem here...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yama I'm talking about Senkai here with the whole Moon thing, not the Dream World, silly billy.

 

[Yamatohime]

Yama I'm talking about Senkai here with the whole Moon thing, not the Dream World, silly billy.

Yume no Senkai?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Senkai, the Realm created by Miko, unrelated to the Dream World.

 

[Promestein]

@Saikou

Sailor Moon characters are 5-A for busting a pocket dimension with a planet and a moon, so 5-A is probably the best choice in this case, too. Further input may be required, though.

 

[Yamatohime]

Senkai, the Realm created by Miko, unrelated to the Dream World.

The World of Hermits? It was not created by known cast as far as I remember.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well, if a discussion was already made on this and this resulted in Large Planet level, I guess that's what we would go in, but seriously, our definiton for Dwarf Star is 160 000 km of radius, while the Earth Moon distance is 300 000 km so I'd probably be Dwarf Star..

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Yama Miko made it herself.

 

[Promestein]

@Yama Miko created Senkai. This has been stated.

@Saikou *shrug*. This is why I said we need more input.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, if a discussion was already made on this and this resulted in Large Planet level, I guess that's what we would go in, but seriously, our definiton for Dwarf Star is 160 000 km of radius, while the Earth Moon distance is 300 000 km so I'd probably be Dwarf Star..

The main problem is... Energy. Creating space wo anything is one thing. Creating something with everything is a little different. At least for our world.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We don't really say someone creating a MSS-sized Pocket Dimension is only Large Star because most of it is space. I think that would apply here.

 

[Yamatohime]

@Yama Miko made it herself.

Well, I finished only Reimu's and Marisa's routes in Ten Desires. So probably I missed something or just wasn't really good at keeping with endings. =)

 

[Yamatohime]

We don't really say someone creating a MSS-sized Pocket Dimension is only Large Star because most of it is space. I think that would apply here.

MSS-pocket dimension should have at least few stars. Real ones.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

T'was in the Books. The one where Byakuren and Miko and someone else are saying things. Too lazy to search the title.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Yama A few stars isn't MSS doe, it would be Solar System at best IIRC. When created a pocket dimension, empty space is taken into account.

 

[Yamatohime]

T'was in the Books. The one where Byakuren and Miko and someone else are saying things. Too lazy to search the title.

OK, I'll look.

@Yama A few stars isn't MSS doe, it would be Solar System at best IIRC. When created a pocket dimension, empty space is taken into account.

Spherical one I presume? Not of unknown geometry...

MSS level is creating few stars, few planets and space where they didn't collide. Creating just space is kind of iffy to calculate.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We can't calculate it doe, that's why it's usually seen as reality warping.

 

[Yamatohime]

We can't calculate it doe, that's why it's usually seen as reality warping.

So Doremy could have spatial manipulation (or illusion power) to make voyage more prolonged. Seems nice. And Large Planet level seems nice too (since we don't need to push playable character to far from their standing).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Again with Illusion out of nowhere.

Also why you says to prolong the voyage? Dream World doesn't have a set size (And it being a passageway to moon isn't exactly a size confirmation, considering it's pretty much an alt universe and stuff)

 

[Yamatohime]

Again with Illusion out of nowhere.
Also why you says to prolong the voyage? Dream World doesn't have a set size (And it being a passageway to moon isn't exactly a size confirmation, considering it's pretty much an alt universe and stuff)

What do you mean out of nowhere? We can't even decide if the stars are real ones or just some kind of illision (like projector ones).

We should stick to the known numbers if in-game numbers are out. And since Dream World immitate the real one... Why not to use real world numbers?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but we have more proof of them being Physical than being projectors.

So, your argument is that:

The Dream World imitate the real world, so the Stars must be real

The Dream World imitate the real world, so its size must be the same as Earth-Moon distance

A bit contradictory, isn't it?

 

[Yamatohime]

Nope... The Dream World immitate the part of the Real World. No contradiction. This way.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You can't have actual stars if it's just the size of the Earth-Moon system.

 

[Yamatohime]

You can't have actual stars if it's just the size of the Earth-Moon system.

Hmm... You claimed that Stars are actual. I claimed that they are illusions (they can be the real ones too... but for example they are showed through projection from the Real World).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You legit said "The Stars are probably real" but denied that Doremy created them (as in something else in the Dream World did it) but now you seems to think they aren't real at all.

Also, things like projections seems to requrie quite a bit of assumption.

 

[Yamatohime]

You legit said "The Stars are probably real" but denied that Doremy created them (as in something else in the Dream World did it) but now you seems to think they aren't real at all.

Well, I agreed that Doremy could possibly create the passageway (after all we are currently discussing this one feat). So the real stars became illusion stars.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So the Stars are illusions because it's now possible that Doremy created them? Just seems like you just WANT to disagree at that point, no offense.

 

[Yamatohime]

So the Stars are illusions because it's now possible that Doremy created them? Just seems like you just WANT to disagree at that point, no offense.

The stars are illusions because the passageway (confined space) was probably created by Doremy. Please, do not put words into my mouth.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but the Passageway was created either way, why the fact that Doremy made it makes it now that they are illusions?

 

[Yamatohime]

Yeah but the Passageway was created either way, why the fact that Doremy made it makes it now that they are illusions?

Nope. I had presumed that passageway was only... Well, passageway. Like the road on our Earth. But currently we discussing the passageway as completely separate thing (not the part of bigger world). So where is contradiction in my words?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The contradiction was fixed by you changing opinions apparently.

So, what's your point right now? Doremy made the passageway but the stars are from the outside? I kinda already covered that, since the protags started their trip from the Youkai mountain. And they seemed pretty surprised to be in space, so it's unlikely to be in any way the "real world" space.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Tbf you do change your opinions a lot Yama. And your arguments have been a bit... confusing.

Anyway I still stand on the idea that it's not illussions considering it's a dream world that manifested into a phsyical plane

@PRom 5-A seems like a solid set imo on the Miko thing

 

[Yamatohime]

I set for Large Planet level as currently.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

In any case what about other factors? Anyone else found the femtoseconds thing? Can't seem to find it.

And Reimu's time transcendance might be based by the fact that Sakuya seemed to be unable to undo her usage of that ability. Time stop resistance is time stop resistance in the end but Sakuya also has other moves than that. Not believing in 1A Reimu at all because that's just Balls, though I think that if Reimu floats away from reality it might be just transcendance for that brief amount of time that allows her to do all that.

And yeah Doremy Sweet's 'dream world' can be either lower than 3-D/Reality, or be just another alternate version of it maybe. Kinda like in the same way as Shinki develops Makai in comparison. Though I'm not saying she's on the level of Shinki.

 

[Yamatohime]

And yeah Doremy Sweet's 'dream world' can be either lower than 3-D/Reality, or be just another alternate version of it maybe. Kinda like in the same way as Shinki develops Makai in comparison. Though I'm not saying she's on the level of Shinki.

Without Touhou 12 I would never put Shinki on Low 2-C level. But since we know that she created Makai and... The said Makai was stated to be infinite...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Dream World is an Otherworld, and thus by definiton isn't really a possible candidate for 2-C.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Hang on hang on, I'm not comparing Doremy to Shinki. I already said it. It's not as if dream worlds are infinite as Makai unless one dreams of Makai.

 

[Promestein]

For the record; I'm unsure about the MSS upgrades. There seems to be a big circular argument going on about it on here, and I don't want to get into that. Due to said uncertainty, I cannot support those upgrades.

I do support the 5-A upgrades, however, as Miko having a 5-A feat makes it a lot more certain, and much less of an outlier.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well even then I doubt any Baku would have the power to recreate Makai in it's entirety.