Touhou Discussion Thread 3 ⌈Eternal Fantasy Edition⌋

[Topaz404]

But at least the animation/music will be good, so theres that
(Finally, a debatable Touhou MU (not really Hit is gonna die lul))

 

[Deidalius]

Inb4 a Touhou powerscaling nerd goes "Actually, Sakuya has 23 passives, 47 soul cucking methods, scales to shittoversal but the wiki hasn't accepted it yet, but it's true, trust me. Therefore Sakuya slams Hit by merely staring at him too hard" (This is how debating Touhou matchups feels nowadays)

 

[RanHover60]

Oh yeah I forgot, Archie Tails and Ran Yakumo is a decent and debatable MU. If the infinite speed thread for games sonic passes, it's likely the Archie continuity would scale to it meaning Tails wouldn't immediately get blitzed

 

[Deidalius]

Oh yeah I forgot, Archie Tails and Ran Yakumo is a decent and debatable MU. If the infinite speed thread for games sonic passes, it's likely the Archie continuity would scale to it meaning Tails wouldn't immediately get blitzed

Why is Tails vs Ran a thing? Are they even similar at all? Tails is more similar to Nitori than Ran if anything.

 

[Topaz404]

Oh yeah, Ran vs Archie Tails. Doesnt Tails get some of the absolute broken hax Sonic is known for though?
(oh yeah theres Kasen vs Fleetway Sonic but Base Kasen just annihilates lol)

 

[Deidalius]

NGL, I don't like Kasen vs Sonic. The core connections aren't strong enough.

 

[RanHover60]

Why is Tails vs Ran a thing? Are they even similar at all? Tails is more similar to Nitori than Ran if anything.

Idk something about them being extremely intelligent multiple tailed fox characters who are extremely loyal to someone (Sonic and Yukari).

Oh yeah, Ran vs Archie Tails. Doesnt Tails get some of the absolute broken hax Sonic is known for though?
(oh yeah theres Kasen vs Fleetway Sonic but Base Kasen just annihilates lol)

Nothing the Touhou verse hasn't seen mostly, although layered conceptual destruction is pretty busted.

 

[Topaz404]

Idk something about them being extremely intelligent multiple tailed fox characters who are extremely loyal to someone (Sonic and Yukari).

Nothing the Touhou verse hasn't seen mostly, although layered conceptual destruction is pretty busted.

I dunno, i think Ran would win, but i know Sonic as a verse is pretty hax heavy

Oh yeah, theres also Okina vs Stephen (SMT)

Okina kinda dies lol

 

[Deidalius]

Idk something about them being extremely intelligent multiple tailed fox characters who are extremely loyal to someone (Sonic and Yukari).

Ah, one of the reasons I hate how matchups are created nowadays. Stretching connections to make characters seem more similar. Other than loyalty, the relationship between Sonic and Tails is very different from Yukari and Ran.

Sonic and Tails are equals, best friends, they're in a relationship of mutual respect

Yukari is Ran's master and beats her with a newspaper like a dog or something. I am pretty sure Ran is Yukari's slave or something like that. Not really love or friendship.
(Also Ran is way lamer than other Touhou characters. IDK why anyone would want to see Ran fight)

I dunno, i think Ran would win, but i know Sonic as a verse is pretty hax heavy

Oh yeah, theres also Okina vs Stephen (SMT)

I like that matchup.

Okina kinda dies lol

Based, Okina sucks.

 

[RanHover60]

What about Junko? I'd assume there'd be a lot of vengeful type characters that could have a good fight with her.

 

[Topaz404]

Okina does not suck, L take

I know the whole relationship of Yukari/Ran/Chen is basically master/slave, but im pretty sure Yukari treats them with at least some respect. I mean hell, Yukari generally treats others with a modicum of respect, or just ***** with them. But yeah. Yukari isnt a cold hearted asshole

Junko? make her fight Junko (Danganronpa) because funny

 

[Deidalius]

What about Junko? I'd assume there'd be a lot of vengeful type characters that could have a good fight with her.

I thought of Kratos since
both had their family get killed because of gods
both seek vengeance against gods
both are godkillers

I also heard of Junko vs Spamtom (Though I am pretty sure only one person shills that matchup) and Junko vs Granolah.

Okina does not suck, L take

Yuh-uh she sucks, I could go on a paragraphs long rant about why Okina sucks.

I know the whole relationship of Yukari/Ran/Chen is basically master/slave, but im pretty sure Yukari treats them with at least some respect. I mean hell, Yukari generally treats others with a modicum of respect, or just ***** with them. But yeah. Yukari isnt a cold hearted asshole

Junko? make her fight Junko (Danganronpa) because funny

Yeah but my point is that the relationship between Sonic and Tails and the relationship between Yukari and Ran aren't remotely similar at all. Sure, Yukari treats her slave well but that's not comparable to the relationship between best friends.

 

[Deidalius]

Since we are talking about Death Battle matchups for Touhou characters. Let me start chilling I mean shilling Cirno vs Papyrus.

It's peak, Papyrus dies hard but it's better than Cirno vs Jack Frost, believe me.

 

[Topaz404]

Cirno vs Trixie Lulamoon is also based
But yeah
Cirno vs Jack Frost is shit, horrible, L MU

 

[Deidalius]

Cirno vs Trixie Lulamoon is also based
But yeah
Cirno vs Jack Frost is shit, horrible, L MU

Cirno vs Trixie? What's the gist behind that matchup? My sister bullied me when I got caught watching MLP so I don't know anything about the series

 

[Topaz404]

Generally the two of them are kinda more on the silly side, with them bragging about how they are the strongest of the series (even though Cirno gets flattened a lot, and i think Trixie does as well)
Also Trixie does magic, yeah
(kinda bad but whatever)

 

[Deidalius]

Sounds solid to me.

 

[Topaz404]

But generally, yeah, the MU is more based off the banter the two of them would have, as it would be great
anyways
Cirno slams. Trixie cant really kill her

 

[Deidalius]

I saw the previews of the next CDS chapter. Yuugi went from a twig to a muscular Amazonian girl. I wonder if the fans will go wild over ultra muscular Yuugi being canon?

I saw the previews on Twitter. I am too lazy to link them, find them yerself lel ;p

A friend said CDS is a manga that sticks closely to the fanon design interpretations of the characters. I wonder if that's true? I haven't paid mind. I turn off my brain when I read CDS 'cuz I won't need it.

 

[Deidalius]

Spoiler: Spoilers for Chapter 33 of Cheating Detective Satori :3

AAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAAAAAH

 

[BlastX]

Ah, one of the reasons I hate how matchups are created nowadays. Stretching connections to make characters seem more similar. Other than loyalty, the relationship between Sonic and Tails is very different from Yukari and Ran.

Sonic and Tails are equals, best friends, they're in a relationship of mutual respect

Yukari is Ran's master and beats her with a newspaper like a dog or something. I am pretty sure Ran is Yukari's slave or something like that. Not really love or friendship.
(Also Ran is way lamer than other Touhou characters. IDK why anyone would want to see Ran fight)

I like that matchup.

Based, Okina sucks.

In Archie is different considering that Sonic said to Tails parents face that the kid worships him and would listen to him, plus there's other shitty stuff.

Though Game Sonic got many upgrades recently so you can just use Game Tails and ditch Archie Tails probably.

 

[Deidalius]

In Archie is different considering that Sonic said to Tails parents face that the kid worships him and would listen to him, plus there's other shitty stuff.

It sounds like the Archie Comics wrote Sonic and Tails' relationship badly. I don't know why the writers thought that was a good idea.

Though Game Sonic got many upgrades recently so you can just use Game Tails and ditch Archie Tails probably.

I'd rather have that. I know game Tails more than Archie Tails.

 

[Topaz404]

Heyyyy, Fuji, or someone knowledgeable on the verse, im trying to do a MU with Seija, and for her whole ability to flip shit......is it quite literally she can flip anything to its inverse (like, say, wet/dry, or alive/dead)? Or are there limits to this?

Just need to know!

 

[Deidalius]

Heyyyy, Fuji, or someone knowledgeable on the verse, im trying to do a MU with Seija, and for her whole ability to flip shit......is it quite literally she can flip anything to its inverse (like, say, wet/dry, or alive/dead)? Or are there limits to this?

Just need to know!

Fuji is temporarily banned, I am pretty sure.

I don't know how strong Seija is in this wiki, but I always recommend throwing every crappy matchup idea against the wall and see which one sticks to it. Try everything you have in mind, worry about the consequences later.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

pls Fuji wake up, we need updates

 

[AdamVhenJP]

That's a tomorrow.

 

[Quibster]

That's a tomorrow.

pls Fuji wake up, we need updates

 

[Quibster]

I am pretty sure Ran is Yukari's slave or something like that. Not really love or friendship.

I don't know if I would equate Ran to a slave of all things because Ran actually cares about Yukari. Ran's referred to as a tool by her, but also Yukari is the most hard-to-read character in the damn verse; practically everything she does is either on a pure whim or part of her own convoluted machinations. Other times to it's just to **** with people (the entirety of SSiB). It's hard to tell if she truly feels that way, honestly. I'd go out on a limb to say that Yukari sincerely loves her as one would a close relative at the bare minimum, but doesn't show it. Entrusting Gensokyou to Ran while sleeping all day is some serious trust lmao.

Plus there's also Chen who's referred to as a "pet", and "cat". She isn't even called "Chen Yakumo", it's just Chen. I don't know how you can get lower than that as a Shikigami tbh.

(Also Ran is way lamer than other Touhou characters. IDK why anyone would want to see Ran fight)

Need I say more?

 

[Deidalius]

I don't know if I would equate Ran to a slave of all things. Ran's referred to as a tool, but also Yukari is the most hard-to-read character in the damn verse; practically everything she does is either on a pure whim or part of her own convoluted machinations. Other times to it's just to **** with people (the entirety of SSiB).

Didn't Yukari brainwash Ran to become her shikigami? Like, install a new personality or something. Correct me if I am wrong.

Either way, slave is a harsh word to describe the relationship between Ran and Yukari. Ran is just a property of Yukari, is forced to work for Yukari and doesn't get paid :>

Eitherer way, the power imbalance between Ran and Yukari is why I dislike Ran vs Tails. It's not a relationship comparable to Sonic and Tails' relationship.

Plus there's also Chen who's referred to as a "pet", and "cat". She isn't even called "Chen Yakumo", it's just Chen. I don't know how you can get lower than that as a Shikigami tbh.

It sounds very unethical to have a humanoid with human intelligence as a pet but Yukari is one of my favorite characters so I will defend every warcrime she does.

Need I say more?

Ah, I forgot Ran throws Chen at her opponents and that's something no one else in Touhou does.

There is an enormous amount of animation and fighting potential caused by the ability to throw a child at your opponents.

 

[Quibster]

Ah, I forgot Ran throws Chen at her opponents and that's something no one else in Touhou does.

There is an enormous amount of animation and fighting potential caused by the ability to throw a child at your opponents.

Yukari also throws Ran, for what that's worth (sound warning)

 

[Deidalius]

Yukari also throws Ran, for what that's worth (sound warning)

Ahhh I forgot Yukari can throw Ran. Where's the LS calc behind that?
I haven't played PCB yet.

Unrelated but when I played as Ran in Touhou 19 I didn't realize she threw Chen until others pointed it out. I guess I let obvious details escape my grasp.

 

[Quibster]

Where's the LS calc behind that?

It's not throwing as much as it is ordering her to attack. Since she can already hurl herself on her own at Yukari's Instruction and on her own (As seen in Imperishable Night and her midboss portion of PCB Phantasm respectively). Ironically enough, it's sort of a portrayed as a spin-attack.

I say "throwing her" jokingly here. IN demonstrates Ran goes spinny on command.

 

[Deidalius]

It's not throwing as much as it is ordering her to attack. Since she can already hurl herself on her own at Yukari's Instruction (As seen in Imperishable Night and her midboss portion of PCB Phantasm). Ironically enough, it's sort of a portrayed as a spin-attack.

I say "throwing her" jokingly here. IN demonstrates Ran goes spinny on command.

I understand that, I was making a joke. My joke being unfunny is another thing.

 

[Quibster]

I haven't played PCB yet.

It's abandonware go grab ittt

 

[Deidalius]

I always "borrow" Touhou games Marisa styled through the shrine site. (Not that I could afford them either way)

 

[Topaz404]

Man, i should really try to stop debating with people on Reddit.

 

[Steve1775]

Man, i should really try to stop debating with people on Reddit.

Very few people know touhou, and those who know touhou either agrees or disagrees with the powerscaling ( especially if it comes from the site ).

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah. That’s fair lol. Granted, even if more people more about it, it probably wouldn’t help the issue of people just massively underestimating it (or overestimating it as well)

 

[Steve1775]

Yeah. That’s fair lol. Granted, even if more people more about it, it probably wouldn’t help the issue of people just massively underestimating it (or overestimating it as well)

It's either overestimating or underestimating, no in between. Though tbf I can somewhat understand since touhou is not the most straightforward verse for vs debating. I just stick to Len'en due to simplicity

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, but there are thankfully some matchups that are at least somewhat debatable. Like for example, Seija Kijin vs Frieza.
Its basically a whole thing of AP vs Hax, though, in this case, Hax wins (though you could argue for Frieza being able to one shot via getting close enough)