• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Touhou Discussion Thread 3 ⌈Eternal Fantasy Edition⌋

With how much evidence I've been gathering for certain things, the NPI evidence post I dropped on him that made him instantly stop debating me in that downgrade thread will look like a mercy in comparison. Speaking of, are there any things I should try to gather extra evidence for? Specifically things that seem obvious to supporters but wouldn't seem that way to outside viewers (like NPI or how canon works).
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
With how much evidence I've been gathering for certain things, the NPI evidence post I dropped on him that made him instantly stop debating me in that downgrade thread will look like a mercy in comparison. Speaking of, are there any things I should try to gather extra evidence for? Specifically things that seem obvious to supporters but wouldn't seem that way to outside viewers (like NPI or how canon works).
Click to expand...
Not much that i can think of, but some extra confirmation on the solid proof of 2-C (or higher Touhou) and the whole Infinite speed thing. I know both have been done to death but people still get confused. Mainly with the Infinite speed (Kaguya's Infinite Corridor and Sanzu River are two things people may get a tad confused about. Also the Palanquin Ship. Nearly forgot)

But thats just more like insurance, yknow?
 
Topaz404 said:
Not much that i can think of, but some extra confirmation on the solid proof of 2-C (or higher Touhou) and the whole Infinite speed thing. I know both have been done to death but people still get confused. Mainly with the Infinite speed (Kaguya's Infinite Corridor and Sanzu River are two things people may get a tad confused about. Also the Palanquin Ship. Nearly forgot)

But thats just more like insurance, yknow?
Click to expand...
2-C will be covered, even though I think what we have now is plenty. I'll just be adding a few backing statements like Tenshi being able to split Heaven and earth with her danmaku, or dragons being able to tear Heaven asunder and cause it to tremble with their more casual showings. Nothing really concrete in the way of feats, it'd be more like using a "can destroy the world" statement to back up a planet level calc.

As for infinite speed, idk if I should roll the backing feats into the immeasurable speed thread (as immeasurable should only be a 'possibly' rating imo) or make a thread before the revisions start in order to add those feats and make a blog shutting down the common "debunks" for infinite speed. Leaning towards the latter for now, ig.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
2-C will be covered, even though I think what we have now is plenty. I'll just be adding a few backing statements like Tenshi being able to split Heaven and earth with her danmaku, or dragons being able to tear Heaven asunder and cause it to tremble with their more casual showings. Nothing really concrete in the way of feats, it'd be more like using a "can destroy the world" statement to back up a planet level calc.

As for infinite speed, idk if I should roll the backing feats into the immeasurable speed thread (as immeasurable should only be a 'possibly' rating imo) or make a thread before the revisions start in order to add those feats and make a blog shutting down the common "debunks" for infinite speed. Leaning towards the latter for now, ig.
Click to expand...
Havent you mentioned before theres like the possibility of 2-B/2-A? Dont think Tier 1 Touhou is happening, not for a while anyways (but it would be nice to dream)

As for speed, yeah, go ahead and work on the whole debunks for Infinite before trying to get them to possibly Immeasurable, because with people doubting Infinite (even with solid proof), the Immeasurable debacle is going to be worse. An airtight argument is an argument well done i say
 
Topaz404 said:
Havent you mentioned before theres like the possibility of 2-B/2-A? Dont think Tier 1 Touhou is happening, not for a while anyways (but it would be nice to dream)
Click to expand...
Yes, but I'm saving that for last. I want to use the 2-B thread as a way to ease the burden of proof on things like characters scaling to the entire cosmology, since trying to explain that AND the existence of higher dimensions AND the existence of higher cosmological structures beyond dimensions is way too much to drop at once. Ideally, 2-B will be used to explain the scaling, as well as act as a comprehensive overview on what Otherworlds are and how they work, which will help with the Low 1-C/High 1-C thread, which will in turn help with the 1-A thread.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Yes, but I'm saving that for last. I want to use the 2-B thread as a way to ease the burden of proof on things like characters scaling to the entire cosmology, since trying to explain that AND the existence of higher dimensions AND the existence of higher cosmological structures beyond dimensions is way too much to drop at once. Ideally, 2-B will be used to explain the scaling, as well as act as a comprehensive overview on what Otherworlds are and how they work, which will help with the Low 1-C/High 1-C thread, which will in turn help with the 1-A thread.
Click to expand...
Your trying to get Touhou to 1-A!?!
Look, i support this verse, and im kinda like that one guy in the peanut gallery that tries as moral support

But that is bold, very bold. But i cant stop you (and i would love to see it so Reimu vs Dr Strange (Marvel Comics) can finally not be a stomp and i can (maybe) enjoy the MU
 
Topaz404 said:
Your trying to get Touhou to 1-A!?!
Look, i support this verse, and im kinda like that one guy in the peanut gallery that tries as moral support

But that is bold, very bold. But i cant stop you (and i would love to see it so Reimu vs Dr Strange (Marvel Comics) can finally not be a stomp and i can (maybe) enjoy the MU
Click to expand...
It'll be largely based on Ultima's recent tiering revision, should it pass. I can't comment much more on it since the standards aren't set in stone yet, and there's actually a massive section of research I've yet to tackle that will be essential to the 1-A stuff.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
It'll be largely based on Ultima's recent tiering revision, should it pass. I can't comment much more on it since the standards aren't set in stone yet, and there's actually a massive section of research I've yet to tackle that will be essential to the 1-A stuff.
Click to expand...
I see, i see. Well, lets hope, because thats going to be fun to see
If i may ask, where can i find the tiering revision thing, so i can watch the madness unfold?
 
SomeJJJJ said:
What is Hakurei Festival Records??? is it canon or official?
Click to expand...
where'd you even see that in the revisions
It's a fan doujin that had some comments from ZUN thrown in at the very end. I'm only using ZUN's commentary, so it's a similar situation to something like BAiJR and A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
where'd you even see that in the revisions
It's a fan doujin that had some comments from ZUN thrown in at the very end. I'm only using ZUN's commentary, so it's a similar situation to something like BAiJR and A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years.
Click to expand...
BAiJR was a fan doujin too?
 
Yknow. I have an opinion i wanna share, but i feel like its too spicy to share (it has something to do with a particular Marisa MU)
Guess right, and you get a cookie
 
Uhh.... Asriel is 2-B and the save/load or more things like that marisa can't resist? probably
Though there was a thread about Asriel vs Utsuho and Utsuho stomped but thats outdated i think
 
Topaz404 said:
Yeah, im just feeling like complaining about Marisa vs Asriel. Again
Azzy got nothing for Fate Manip lol
And besides, Marisa's fought characters that can screw with timelines, ya know, like the maid?
Click to expand...
How does fate manipulation counter temporal reload? Does Marisa just make Asriel not use it at all? Like some sort of mind manipulation?
 
I mean, with Kirbonic's blog, Marisa was able to beat Yuffie Kirisagi, and Yuffie is 2-A at her own peak. I dont think 2-B would be an issue if Marisa can tango with a 2-A and win out
Hell, with ability cards coming into effect- Marisa can just use Sheep You Want to Count (Subjective Reality) and just.....imagine the whole fight as a dream and Asriel goes bye bye

While yeah, Asriel could erase the timeline and Marisa would most likely die to that, Marisa's just got too much and is more likely to go for a kill.
(dont quote me on this but im pretty sure Acausality Type 4 would mean Azzy's Causality Negation wont work)

But yeah. Im rambling now lul
 
Deidalius said:
How does fate manipulation counter temporal reload? Does Marisa just make Asriel not use it at all? Like some sort of mind manipulation?
Click to expand...
Fate Manip would make it more likely for Marisa to go for the kill faster, and seeing how its Passive as well, as long as her Mini-Hakkero is in her hands, or is around her, shes going to be affected about it

Sooooo......Azzy's kinda boned here (heh)
 
But honestly, i wanna wait see what someone like Fuji thinks about it.
Or someone else. Eh well.

But yeah, in my opinion, Marisa wipes the floor, Mid-High diff
 
Small progress update, nearly every CRT has a rough outline finished. There are a couple I want to save for when everything else is written, however (mainly stuff like hax layering and a couple of threads that are just extensions of the bigger threads). Writing out a lot of this stuff has also helped me make a few very funny realizations that I'll keep to myself for now, so it's nice to know there are still groundbreaking discoveries to make this deep into the research process. Only 11 games remain in terms of what needs gameplay footage (I finished WBaWC recently), so main canon is about 95% done.

In terms of secondary canon, I'm still waiting for an opportunity to play Hero Yamada-kun for myself (will have to see if it ever goes on sale, or if one of my oomfs buys it off my wishlist for Christmas). Genso Narratograph is getting translated (same guy who does the CDS translations), but there's no hard timeline on when the finished version will release. Given that there's supposedly an early version of the translation that's already been passed around, I'd say we hopefully don't have to wait too much longer. Hoping it'll be in time for Touhoufest so I can play a session with my oomfies.

Also, this pic goes so hard.
shinkiwami.png
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Small progress update, nearly every CRT has a rough outline finished. There are a couple I want to save for when everything else is written, however (mainly stuff like hax layering and a couple of threads that are just extensions of the bigger threads). Writing out a lot of this stuff has also helped me make a few very funny realizations that I'll keep to myself for now, so it's nice to know there are still groundbreaking discoveries to make this deep into the research process. Only 11 games remain in terms of what needs gameplay footage (I finished WBaWC recently), so main canon is about 95% done.

In terms of secondary canon, I'm still waiting for an opportunity to play Hero Yamada-kun for myself (will have to see if it ever goes on sale, or if one of my oomfs buys it off my wishlist for Christmas). Genso Narratograph is getting translated (same guy who does the CDS translations), but there's no hard timeline on when the finished version will release. Given that there's supposedly an early version of the translation that's already been passed around, I'd say we hopefully don't have to wait too much longer. Hoping it'll be in time for Touhoufest so I can play a session with my oomfies
Click to expand...
So we won't have to wait too much longer? (Yay!)
 
Deidalius said:
I admit that I exaggerate a bit but TikTok's mechanic of having a very small character limits prevents people from making paragraphs. Since they can't write a lot, they just end up saying short phrases and words.

Even when they end up making an argument, they don't back it up with evidence since no one there ever writes links in the comments (Mostly because you have to copy the link and paste it elsewhere since clicking the link doesn't send you to another page) and they can't post images.

Which leaves you with a site where 90% of powerscaling discussions are just this image over and over.
0C10rnq.jpeg
Click to expand...
The Wukong one is true tho.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Yes, but I'm saving that for last. I want to use the 2-B thread as a way to ease the burden of proof on things like characters scaling to the entire cosmology, since trying to explain that AND the existence of higher dimensions AND the existence of higher cosmological structures beyond dimensions is way too much to drop at once. Ideally, 2-B will be used to explain the scaling, as well as act as a comprehensive overview on what Otherworlds are and how they work, which will help with the Low 1-C/High 1-C thread, which will in turn help with the 1-A thread.
Click to expand...
out of curiosity, who scales to the cosmology?
if you don't want to reveal it yet, would Flandre rank any close to that? I'm still somewhat inexperienced in Touhou but I am curious if a match-up between her and Alice (Megami Tensei) would be any fair - right now it obviously isn't with Flandre's current 2-C and Alice's current base 1-C (1-A as Archetype)
 
I do want to ask something
With the Gods (we take Suwako, for example), whoever they would be fighting would of course see their avatar- and since Gods exist as Abstract Beings, they can create a new avatar at will (as long as they exist with a sufficient amount of faith)

So, if your fighting Suwako, wouldnt you be fighting both the avatar created (what you see) and the abstract, nameless being that can create more avatars and possibly erase you from existence, or just the avatar, the nameless form/abstract being unable to do much?
 
XatorNova said:
out of curiosity, who scales to the cosmology?
if you don't want to reveal it yet, would Flandre rank any close to that? I'm still somewhat inexperienced in Touhou but I am curious if a match-up between her and Alice (Megami Tensei) would be any fair - right now it obviously isn't with Flandre's current 2-C and Alice's current base 1-C (1-A as Archetype)
Click to expand...
Anybody who is currently rated at 2-C would scale to the cosmology (whether that be 2-B, Low 1-C, High 1-C, or 1-A). Doremy and Remilia being so low on the scaling chain is a godsend, really.
 
Topaz404 said:
I do want to ask something
With the Gods (we take Suwako, for example), whoever they would be fighting would of course see their avatar- and since Gods exist as Abstract Beings, they can create a new avatar at will (as long as they exist with a sufficient amount of faith)

So, if your fighting Suwako, wouldnt you be fighting both the avatar created (what you see) and the abstract, nameless being that can create more avatars and possibly erase you from existence, or just the avatar, the nameless form/abstract being unable to do much?
Click to expand...
It's a bit more complicated than that. The profiles are currently missing a god's divine spirit key - the divine spirit in this case being the soul or essence of a god that can be divided infinitely. A god can manifest part of their divine spirit mid-combat (as shown with Suwako fighting her own divine spirit, or Okuu summoning a part of Yatagarasu), as well as use the powers of the divine spirit while existing as an avatar (eg; bestowing curses and blessings, or splitting their spirit). So it'd be more accurate to say that you're fighting the god's avatar, plus their omnipresent and abstract "soul".

As for where nameless gods fit, it's hard to know for certain. However, I operate under the assumption that they can only do anything after a god "dies" and is left as nothing but their nameless self with no avatar or divine spirit to speak of.
 
Soooo.....would Suwako be able to say- rip you apart on a casual level/use Reality Warping with her Divine Spirit.....orrrr? What kind of powers would be able to manifest with that Spirit?
(probably shouldnt be trying to understand this while trying to explain Touhou cosmology to someone new to the verse to explain why Superman wouldnt be able to notice/interact with Koishi. My brain)
 
Topaz404 said:
Soooo.....would Suwako be able to say- rip you apart on a casual level/use Reality Warping with her Divine Spirit.....orrrr? What kind of powers would be able to manifest with that Spirit?
Click to expand...
The divine spirit key wouldn't be able to use any of the nameless form's powers. Divine spirits are what bestows curses/blessings upon worshipers (with curses being a form of misfortune, which is resistance-negating probability/fate hax, so that's cool) and divine themselves infinitely without losing power, but they don't really have any offensive hax outside of that. Their defensive hax are much better (type 1 AE with 2-B omnipresence and various forms of immortality is a hard combo to beat).

There is, however, an argument to be made for divine spirits getting all the verse powers, which would be really funny.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The divine spirit key wouldn't be able to use any of the nameless form's powers. Divine spirits are what bestows curses/blessings upon worshipers (with curses being a form of misfortune, which is resistance-negating probability/fate hax, so that's cool) and divine themselves infinitely without losing power, but they don't really have any offensive hax outside of that. Their defensive hax are much better (type 1 AE with 2-B omnipresence and various forms of immortality is a hard combo to beat).

There is, however, an argument to be made for divine spirits getting all the verse powers, which would be really funny.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm, yes, now that would be funny as hell. Hina has suddenly become a lot more scary now lmfao
 
I mean still, the thought of Hina being able to tap into her Divine Spirit to erase you on a conceptual level is both funny and scary at the same time (if divine spirits do get every power in the verse anyways)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Deidalius
  • Locked
Can Touhou LostWord be added into this wiki?
2
Replies
50
Views
4K
Angelzewolf
Angelzewolf
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
Touhou VS Thread Proposal + A Minor Fix
2 3 4
Replies
137
Views
12K
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
Chris_Yawn
Two Floaty Protagonist (Sora vs Reimu Hakurei)
Replies
20
Views
3K
Quibster
Quibster
H3110l12345I20
The Real World Profiles and Scaling General Discussion Thread
Replies
0
Views
859
H3110l12345I20
H3110l12345I20
Kisaragi_Megumi
Indonesian Gang Discussion Thread (English Only)
Replies
14
Views
1K
Rendynoc0unter
Rendynoc0unter
Back
Top