Tiering of KH fodder and Disney "Unknown" scaling

[Joaco0902]

So, they are 9-A via scaling to... some fodder enemy due to freezing a human, correct? I pretty much only need the name of that fodder (if it even has one) and I'm on it.
Something like:

At least Small Building level (Comparable to, if not superior to (Insert fodder name), which was able to freeze a human, which is this level)

As for the "bat feat", I'm not sure what you mean @ Joaco0902 .

I might've mentioned bat swinging speeds to help give an idea of what yields some Kinetic Energy feats can get?

Yes, that's what I meant. I thought that you were talking about a bat-wielding enemy in a Chicken Little level or something.

There... is a Chicken Little level, right?

 

[Bobsican]

Lol no, Chicken Little only does a minor cameo in KHII as a summon (Which is why he's solid High 4-C, nothing more from that beyond the other cameo as a badge in Union X).

KH is a hack and slash series (Like Bayonetta and DMC), BTW, so there's really no such thing as "levels" in the same fashion as Mario.

 

[Joaco0902]

Bobsican: KH is a hack and slash series (Like Bayonetta and DMC), BTW, so there's really no such thing as "levels" in the same fashion as Mario.
I referred to the "worlds".

Anyways, I think I finished em' all.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm sure the OP misses the rest of the pirate crew, at the verse page (Aka, those that scale to Jack Sparrow)

 

[Joaco0902]

oof I'm on it.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Wait, did Ant ALLOW them to be possibly High 4-C, that needs to be accepted??????

 

[Joaco0902]

Ok, that should be it.

 

[Bobsican]

Wait, did Ant ALLOW them to be possibly High 4-C, that needs to be accepted??????

I'm going to go ahead and ask Ant for input once more.

Edit: Better not, Ant is always busy and I don't want to annoy him.

 

[Js250476]

So if I'm reading this correctly the proposal is scaling the Disney characters to fodder and Sora as a possible high end?

 

[HST_Master]

So if I'm reading this correctly the proposal is scaling the Disney characters to fodder and Sora as a possible high end?

^ Same question.

 

[Bobsican]

So if I'm reading this correctly the proposal is scaling the Disney characters to fodder and Sora as a possible high end?

Yes, that's the thing.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Ok then, all we need is ant to approve possibly high 4-C then we can wrap up on the main fodder.

Now we need a tier for the toys

 

[Bobsican]

The toys already have something to scale to, but the calc is yet to be made.

Calculating electricity is far more of a pain than expected.

 

[Imaginym]

Lol no, Chicken Little only does a minor cameo in KHII as a summon (Which is why he's solid High 4-C, nothing more from that beyond the other cameo as a badge in Union X).
KH is a hack and slash series (Like Bayonetta and DMC), BTW, so there's really no such thing as "levels" in the same fashion as Mario.

Except there kind of ARE levels? https://youtu.be/v52g4EBQ-ew?t=13 Every world in KH1 & KH2 has a Battle Level, IIRC. https://kingdomhearts.fandom.com/wiki/Experience

Also, in KH2, enemies have level statistics, which vary depending on where they're found. https://kingdomhearts.fandom.com/wiki/Soldier#Stats_.26_Abilities Take a look at the KHII Tab for the Soldier on that page, for example.

And you yourself mentioned what seemed to be basing scaling on statistics with comparing the Defense of Driller Moles to Shadows , so why not use the Battle Level & Level statistics?

 

[Bobsican]

Battle level per world is only shown in KHI IIRC

Shadows have been in nearly every single world that Sora has visited, but the same can't be said for Driller Moles.

I compared the stats of Driller Moles in KHII and Shadows in Olympus Coliseum, it appears that, surprisingly, Driller Moles hold better stats than Shadows.

However, latter games instead say the recommended level to be grinded at before entering it, so if we want to stretch it a bit (game mechanics and all), Shadows can somewhat scale to Driller Moles, but overall, just sticking to 9-B seems more consistent.

 

[Imaginym]

KH2 doesn't have Battle Level? KH Fandom Wiki says: "In Kingdom Hearts II, experience is once again obtained after defeating enemies. The overall amount obtained varies accordingly in relation to the battle level."

Am I misinterpreting something, or is there not a battle level in KH2?

But yeah, not entirely sure what's best, but games do use a recommended level system for worlds, & often, enemies do have levels that vary by world.

And yeah, 9-B is probably more consistent AtM. (Unless we can get some footage/screenshots from 358/2 Days of Skater Bombs freezing characters other than Vexen. That MIGHT get Small Building Level.)

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The toys already have something to scale to, but the calc is yet to be made.
Calculating electricity is far more of a pain than expected.

Isn't there some conversion sites which can convert watts to joules?????

 

[Bobsican]

The problem is getting the watts themselves as values from electrical explosions.

As for the level stuff yes, Sora and others can level up in all the series, but that doesn't exactly extends to they way "worlds" are treated in the games.

Anyways, just checked, the "recommended" level thing I said is indeed the battle level, but we are taking game mechanics too far if you ask me, just leaving it at 9-B as you suggest is better and more consistent overall.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Ok then, once ant accepts possibly high 4-C, we can move onto the toys and their tiers

 

[Bobsican]

Doubt Ant will be the one that will gett hsi accepted, he'll just request to ask the other users knowledgeable on the series as usual.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Did you ask the knowledgeables????????

 

[Bobsican]

I already did, but they don't seem to have replied much yet.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Sorry, i was busy with personal stuff.

So from what i've seen here, i think this is ok. After all, the characters can harm Heartless and even the weakest of teh Heartless can harm Sora so they can (partially) scale.

Also, thank you for the "order" part. I mean, it always bothered me that we had the idea that Sora was restraining himself because the "order" part was only about not outright saying there are other worlds (granted some characters already knew about them in certain worlds like the Mirror) and making sure they wouldn't intefere in specific events.

 

[Js250476]

All things considered these seem okay with me.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

All things considered these seem okay with me.

Even for the toys??????

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Personally, i don't see why they shouldn't be affected by this. All the Disney characters that were noted "Unknown" should get the "At least 9-B/9-A, possibly High 4-C" .

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

So the toys are also possibly high 4-C???????

 

[Bobsican]

While we are at it, the note on the verse page and the Editing Rule that regarded this stuff needs to be updated.

The question it, to what exactly?.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The discussion rule for KH isn't about the scaling

 

[Bobsican]

Edited my reply, oops, mixed them up.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm Blue Since the scale is about all the "Unknown" characters, it seems so.

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe something like?:

"Given that most of the Disney characters (such as those from Tarzan, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Toy Story) were strictly displayed at power levels close to those within their original movies within their native "worlds", it is assumed that travelers between them, such as Sora, are automatically scaled in relation to the story that they are transported to, in order not to overwhelm and break it. In addition, it would also lead to them being very inconsistent with what they've shown in their respective movies as just because they fought alongside or against Sora and the others doesn't mean that they are automatically scaled to High 4-C and Massively FTL+ speeds.

For this reason we cannot directly scale the characters within those "worlds" to Sora or other keyblade wielder displayed at their peaks, unless they have broken free from the constraints of their own "world" and are traveling the worlds freely, such as is the case with Pete and Maleficent or King Mickey, Donald and Goofy, or scale to someone that has been able to go to another world and has no reason to restrain itself, like with Oogie Boogie to Jack Skellington.

However, because this is completely hypothetical to prevent everyone directly scaling to Keyblade Wielders, they can still scale to them as the high-end, with their low showings (beating up Heartless) being usable to scale accordingly, such as is the case with James P. Sulliva or Woody."

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

This seems good

Also, unrelated KH VS Question. Is Xehanort VS Misogi Kumagawa fair

 

[Bobsican]

Lol no, Kumagawa nopes with All Fiction everything then proceeds to plot hax.

Best case scenario it's a mismatch either way.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

He can't harm Xehanort due to not having a way to hit him due to NEP and Misogi doesn't have plothax

 

[Bobsican]

Well, one thing for sure is that it won't end well, I just know it.

Feel free making that mess, however.

Anyways, updated the verse page, but I still need someone contacting some staff member to update the editing rule accordingly.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Should we add Possibly high 4-C and their old matches back to the toys profiles

 

[Bobsican]

For now something like "Unknow, possibly at least High 4-C (While Heartless in their homeworld currently have unknown statistics, can somewhat keep up with Sora, Donald and Goofy)" can be used, if you are that desperate.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Hey!!!

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Besides them, I think we should be fine as the rest of the fodder seem finished