Tier High 6-A The Battle of the Beast Tournament (2023): Tatsumaki vs Yami Ichika

[Kachon123]

She’s only going to be slowed down, I said she won’t struggle because she still has an advantage. However if you define “struggle” as some level of resistance then sure she “struggles” a bit.

Tatsumaki's TK doesn't slow people down from moving. She literally crushes people into pulps from all sides. I doubt Ichiki would be able to resist that with only a 1.3x advantage.

Tatsumaki can only slow it down but it’s still going to be too fast

Based on?

you’re the one who implied Tatsumaki will completely stop her attack with that scan,

Yes, because she vastly scale above her value, so a 2x gap would able to be stopped.

I corrected you on what she uses Ki for and your response is…

That's not my argument?

I'm saying that Ichika can precog all she wants, but if she literally can not deal enough damage to break Tatsumaki's layered defenses before Tatsumaki can it her ONCE, then it's irrelevant.

And don't even pull the "precog gg" card because precog does not mean that you're untouchable. It just makes it harder for you to be hit. In a long strung battle against someone as versitile and relentless as Tatsumaki, Ichika being hit is much more likely than Ichika breaking Tatsumaki's layers defenses and somehow killer her with only a 2x AP advantage with certain attacks.

LS and Speed Advantage with Zetten.

LS has nothing to do with breaking Tatsumaki's defenses.

How potent is the speed amp with Zetten?

 

[DemonicDude]

Kachon makes sense

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Tatsumaki only needs one good hit to take out Ichika, which she can do by trapping her in a barrier, reversing the effects to deal internal damage, and crushing her until she dies.

Doubt it’s ic for her

Additionally the “precog” that doesn’t “mean shit” will be useful for to literally evade getting caught in a barrier trap. Similar to the way he helped her comrad avoid being trapped in one.

Lastly, she just Zettens the barrier away.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

LS has nothing to do with breaking Tatsumaki's defenses.

How potent is the speed amp with Zetten?

Unless it’s a forcefield or barrier. Simply pushing back an attack with TK to a complete stop (yknow the scan I initially responded to) won’t work here due to Zetten’s insane speed and LS resisting it’s momentum from being halted assuming she can even react to said attack.

I should’ve started this discussion by explaining Zetten. I’m currently busy rn so I’ll respond to your other points later.

Zetten is a 20x attack speed multiplier.

 

[Recon1511]

Yes, Tatsumaki uses psychic forcefields/barriers to defend herself. It's what all espers do.

Doubt it’s ic for her

Additionally the “precog” that doesn’t “mean shit” will be useful for to literally evade getting caught in a barrier trap. Similar to the way he helped her comrad avoid being trapped in one.

Lastly, she just Zettens the barrier away.

Its one of the techniques she copied from Psykos so its definitely on her arsenal and given her high battle IQ its something she would use

Also Zetten dispersing psychic barriers? Cmon

 

[SuperStar]

Does Tatsumaki use the barriers on her body all the time?

 

[Recon1511]

In all her fights, even against fodders multiple tiers below her, she has her barriers active yes

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Tatsumaki's TK doesn't slow people down from moving. She literally crushes people into pulps from all sides. I doubt Ichiki would be able to resist that with only a 1.3x advantage.

I never said that her TK inherently slows people or objects down. I said she can only slow down Ichika thanks to her resistance via her LS.

Based on?

LS + Speed Advantage (Although now that I'm fully awake, would Tatsumaki even be able to react to a Zetten attack much less attempt to stop it from hitting her with her TK?)

Yes, because she vastly scale above her value, so a 2x gap would able to be stopped.

The momentum of the attack is too high to be stopped so quickly especially when she's slightly inferior LS wise.

Assuming she can even react to it.

That's not my argument?

I'm saying that Ichika can precog all she wants, but if she literally can not deal enough damage to break Tatsumaki's layered defenses before Tatsumaki can it her ONCE, then it's irrelevant.

And don't even pull the "precog gg" card because precog does not mean that you're untouchable. It just makes it harder for you to be hit. In a long strung battle against someone as versitile and relentless as Tatsumaki, Ichika being hit is much more likely than Ichika breaking Tatsumaki's layers defenses and somehow killer her with only a 2x AP advantage with certain attacks.

Ugh.... yes its literally not your argument because all of this is not relevant to what I originally replied to

Anyway, I'm moving on to this now. Please keep track of the discussion so we don't go off on a tangent and you get mad when i still reply to the previous subject.

No, I was not going to pull the "precog gg" as i said before I was only explaining what Ki is used for since you had a little misunderstanding on it. It simply helps to make moves before the opponent makes them and/or react faster. That means she performs Zetten attack right off the bat and blitz Tats.

An upscale chain can't trump a 2.2x Advantage, it can only make it somewhat comparable given our standards.

Given that Ichika uses piercing attacks. A sword slashes to the neck at blitzing speeds is still lethal.

LS has nothing to do with breaking Tatsumaki's defenses.

Ive responded to this. But again the message you tagged was in response to the fact you said Tats TK (not barrier) will stop an attack slightly superior to her at blitz-level speeds. Which shouldn't be possible.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

To be honest, tatsumaki completely twisting psykos should be like a 20 times gap over the AP she scales to or probably even more
I mean just imagine the irl difference between a guy, and another guy who can punch him into a pile of meat with not even a single cell left intact.
Just letting it be clear that there is a massive difference between that and just scaling a “one shot” above something, since while both knocking someone out with a single attack and twisting someone into a pile of sliced meat are both considered one shots, the latter is vastly superior and can’t really be compared to the former in any way
Tatsumaki is effectively beyond baseline moon level with her scaling
Generally speaking, if you think that Tatsumaki’s scaling chain is unable to overcome a less then 2 times gap, then you’re rather ignorant.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Zetten is a 20x attack speed multiplier.

This is not on her profile. The CRT on Zetten just made it a "far higher" though it's still noteworthy that Zetten can blitz opponents that keep up with their non-Zetten selves

To be honest, tatsumaki completely twisting psykos should be like a 20 times gap over the AP she scales to or probably even more
I mean just imagine the irl difference between a guy, and another guy who can punch him into a pile of meat with not even a single cell left intact.
Just letting it be clear that there is a massive difference between that and just scaling a “one shot” above something, since while both knocking someone out with a single attack and twisting someone into a pile of sliced meat are both considered one shots, the latter is vastly superior and can’t really be compared to the former in any way
Tatsumaki is effectively beyond baseline moon level with her scaling
Generally speaking, if you think that Tatsumaki’s scaling chain is unable to overcome a less then 2 times gap, then you’re rather ignorant.

What you think it "should be" is unfortunately not how it is. She's not beyond baseline Moon level. Though I will say it is noteworthy just how high into the scaling chain Tatsumaki goes, as it means the 2.2x gap is actually less than that (though unfortunately it's to an extent we can't exactly quantify)

 

[ssgengar]

Leaning towards tats right now as I agree with Kachon’s points. I’ll try to post my own thoughts later

 

[Epiccheev]

Leaning towards green midget atm too

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This is not on her profile. The CRT on Zetten just made it a "far higher" though it's still noteworthy that Zetten can blitz opponents that keep up with their non-Zetten selves

It’s going to be rated as “far higher” regardless of it being a 20x multiplier or not.

and I’ve just made that clear in the CRT anyway that it’s a 20x speed amp in correspondence to our speed scaling.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It’s going to be rated as “far higher” regardless of it being a 20x multiplier or not.

and I’ve just made that clear in the CRT anyway that it’s a 20x speed amp in correspondence to our speed scaling.

Fair enough. And as I said, even without the 20x, it's still such an amp that it blitzes opponents that can keep up with her

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Tatsumaki’s LS physically is unknown.

So it looks like she still gets affected by black star pulling on her.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

What you think it "should be" is unfortunately not how it is. She's not beyond baseline Moon level. Though I will say it is noteworthy just how high into the scaling chain Tatsumaki goes, as it means the 2.2x gap is actually less than that (though unfortunately it's to an extent we can't exactly quantify)

It means that tatsumaki is dimensions Above the high 6-A value that she scales to and logically should be easily able to harm someone above baseline moon level, and definitely has an advantage with someone only twice as strong as orochi is physically
even if you were insane and said that tatsumaki was only 3 times as strong as orochi (this is stupid) despite being able to destroy a stronger version of him on a cellular level with a Tk crush, she’d still have the AP advantage
this is common knowledge that we just treat characters with insane scaling chains and are close to the baseline of the higher tier as being able to harm characters above the baseline of the next tier.
Tatsumaki literally has 8-B Jotaro syndrome

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Tatsumaki’s LS physically is unknown.

So it looks like she still gets affected by black star pulling on her.

One punch man espers are able to use their psychic powers on themselves to essentially create an affect of them having superhuman physical characteristics
hence tatsumaki being able to easily withstand psykos’s 300 times gravity, and in the latest chapter being able to increase her psychic output to send saitama flying away with a flick of her finger

 

[Arnoldstone18]

One punch man espers are able to use their psychic powers on themselves to essentially create an affect of them having superhuman physical characteristics
hence tatsumaki being able to easily withstand psykos’s 300 times gravity, and in the latest chapter being able to increase her psychic output to send saitama flying away with a flick of her finger

Can they really do all this and attack at the same time?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Can they really do all this and attack at the same time?

Yeah tatsumaki is a multitasker.

 

[chosen]

Going With ichika for now

 

[Popted2]

Ichika FRA

 

[DemonicDude]

Leaning towards green midget atm too

Same

 

[Arnoldstone18]

2 (Kachon, DD)

it’s still 2 votes.
Cuz the other you counted were only leaning towards her but hadn’t given their input.
So just wait for their explaination on why Tatsumaki doesn’t get Zetten perception blitzed to a slash to the neck.

 

[Kachon123]

why Tatsumaki doesn’t get Zetten perception blitzed to a slash to the neck.

Passive aura

Also can you answer my question:

How potent is the speed amp with Zetten?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Passive aura

Also can you answer my question:

Already did.

 

[Kachon123]

Passive aura

Doubt it’s ic for her

It's not something she wouldn't use

Also, Tatsumaki can layer barriers so Zetten working is very unlikely.


I would like to reiterate that one hit from Tatsumaki takes Ichika out, while even with Zetten, due to Tatsumaki's insane injury tolerance and the measly 2x gap between them, Tatsumaki is very much likely to win.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Passive aura

Also can you answer my question:

It blitzes opponents that can normally keep up with Ichika, so in a speed equal match, Tatsumaki would get blitzed

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It's not something she wouldn't use

Also, Tatsumaki can layer barriers so Zetten working is very unlikely.


I would like to reiterate that one hit from Tatsumaki takes Ichika out, while even with Zetten, due to Tatsumaki's insane injury tolerance and the measly 2x gap between them, Tatsumaki is very much likely to win.

Ichika always goes in for a decapitation. Once she blitzes with Zetten it’s over. With a 2.2x with a sharp weapon on the neck area? Decap is possible af.

Tatsumaki’s pain tolerance won’t help here.

So let’s talk about this passive aura. What has it done to protect Tasumaki so far?

Also before I forget, Zetten momentarily boosts durability as well cuz she’s filled with power at that moment before an attack. so since she starts with Zetten, she simply can’t be one shot at the start. Unless you’re still claiming Tats can one shot someone <2.2x stronger than her which per our standards is false.

 

[Recon1511]

Let's see... Tatsumaki always starts her fights with barriers around her body, even if the opponent is a complete fodder she can literally turn to thrash with a thought. Also from the impression I get Zetten requires to first concentrate large amounts of ki and then release it, Tatsumaki has pretty good extrasensory perception and ki/aura is a thing in OPM so she should be able to sense the large amounts of ki Ichika is emanating and even if you think she wouldn't have her barriers up at the start of the fight for some reason she would definitely pre emptively activate them once she senses her aura.

So while Zetten would blitz her and make it very hard to land anything on Ichika her barrier should be able to tank several hits (on top of that she can put layers on them to make them more durable) giving Tatsumaki time to figure out what to do.

She can create a large psychic tornado around her sending everything flying and making it really hard to get near her as Ichika would have to be directly clashing with her psychic waves to get to her.

Create a large barrier around the battlefield (example image, the barrier in this case would be considerably smaller) to limit Ichika's movement making her easier to catch with her AoE TK

Do both of them at the same time since one of her main strengths apart from raw AP is her incredibly effective multi-tasking.

Lastly, Tatsumaki's Rel+ attack speed is actually higher than the speed Ichika would get from the 20x multiplier (Mach 7278 x 20) but I don't think it's valid due to one of the speed equalized rules

 

[Recon1511]

Also, Ichika precog just sounds like standard (if not a bit more haxxed) combat analytical prediction/precog, which while extremely useful in a lot of scenarios I don't really see how it helps against TK or Espers at all. TK isn't a projectile or a melee attack that can be dodged...

 

[CloverDragon03]

Lastly, Tatsumaki's Rel+ attack speed is actually higher than the speed Ichika would get from the 20x multiplier (Mach 7278 x 20) but I don't think it's valid due to one of the speed equalized rules

I'll just say this, I don't think her Relativistic+ speed is valid because of not only that, but also because OP did not give her access to objects that wouldn't instantly burn up due to friction and pressure. Going off of her profile, that's the only way she'd be allowed to use that attack speed

 

[Recon1511]

I'll just say this, I don't think her Relativistic+ speed is valid because of not only that, but also because OP did not give her access to objects that wouldn't instantly burn up due to friction and pressure. Going off of her profile, that's the only way she'd be allowed to use that attack speed

Let's see what OP says then, anyhow, it's just another possible wincon she doesn't really need to be able to do so

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lastly, Tatsumaki's Rel+ attack speed is actually higher than the speed Ichika would get from the 20x multiplier (Mach 7278 x 20) but I don't think it's valid due to one of the speed equalized rules

Why is it a Possibly rating? (Clover already replied)

Let's see... Tatsumaki always starts her fights with barriers around her body, even if the opponent is a complete fodder she can literally turn to thrash with a thought. Also from the impression I get Zetten requires to first concentrate large amounts of ki and then release it, Tatsumaki has pretty good extrasensory perception and ki/aura is a thing in OPM so she should be able to sense the large amounts of ki Ichika is emanating and even if you think she wouldn't have her barriers up at the start of the fight for some reason she would definitely pre emptively activate them once she senses her aura.

Tatsumaki just gets blitzed the moment she senses the aura build. Also the aura build takes an instant. Ichika literally spams Zetten mid combat. There just isn’t time to set up the barrier.

So while Zetten would blitz her and make it very hard to land anything on Ichika her barrier should be able to tank several hits (on top of that she can put layers on them to make them more durable) giving Tatsumaki time to figure out what to do.

This Assumes she doesn’t get blitz before the first set up. Keep in mind she has to register the aura increase in my mind. Also since when did Tatsumaki ever sense aura? Has she ever sensed Ki like Garou?

She can create a large psychic tornado around her sending everything flying and making it really hard to get near her as Ichika would have to be directly clashing with her psychic waves to get to her.

Black Star holds Ichika in place.

Create a large barrier around the battlefield (example image, the barrier in this case would be considerably smaller) to limit Ichika's movement making her easier to catch with her AoE TK

Also makes it easier for Ichika to blitz her with an AOE sword decap strike.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Strange. Why does a blitz in verse apply in versus matches but a one shot in verse doesn't apply for versus matches?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Let's see what OP says then, anyhow, it's just another possible wincon she doesn't really need to be able to do so

You trying to somehow equate speed equalization to AP upscaling? Aren’t they different standards.

 

[Recon1511]

This Assumes she doesn’t get blitz before the first set up. Keep in mind she has to register the aura increase in my mind. Also since when did Tatsumaki ever sense aura? Has she ever sensed Ki like Garou?

Yes, she was able to sense Psykos and Drive Knight (who is a robot/cyborg) energy even while they were underground but if you want to get super technical about it in about 5 days the next OPM chapter is going to be released where Tatsumaki is likely to directly manipulate Saitama's aura.

All of this is assuming that Tatsumaki doesn't start the fight with her barriers, which is false.

But let's assume that for some reason Tatsumaki doesn't start with his barrier active against someone who by SBA she knows means her harm or death. Even then, Tatsumaki's starting move is using TK restrain, which in this case Ichika can somewhat resist but still struggle. Once Tatsumaki sees that she didn't turn Ichika to ground beef she will immediatly activate her barrier as she is in combat.

And no, Zekken shouldn't activate before she uses TK, it's thought vs action and thoughts are always faster than actions.

 

[Recon1511]

You trying to somehow equate speed equalization to AP upscaling? Aren’t they different standards.

I dunno, Tatsumaki's one shot chain is very direct and apparent though. Saitama obliterated the Gaia Cannon with a water gun and then turned Orochi into goo, Psykorochi thinks it's stronger than Saitama and then Tatsumaki destroyed Psykorochi on the cellular level.

People can say one shots are depending on each verse but it doesn't get more direct than this.

 

[Coomandar]

this is a one shot, my vote is on tatsumaki
also, tatsumaki uses her own aura as her barrier, she doesnt need to put up a shield to defend herself

 

[Coomandar]

can this girl resist paralysis inducements by telekinesis?
or even dodge tatsumaki’s danmaku based attacks? speed equalizaded…

 

[Recon1511]

Oh no coom is here