Tier High 6-A The Battle of the Beast Tournament (2023): Tatsumaki vs Yami Ichika

[ZillertheBucko]

tatsumak, with just the confidence scaling above the feat of saitama punching a hole through orochi after vaporizing his gaia cannon, would already have an upscaling chain that closes their AP gap
and then add her feat of cellularly obliterating a blessed psykos and orochi on top of that, and she becomes a one shot above that, when she was already comparable in AP to yami
so the obvious conclusion here is that tatsumaki can probably one shot yami's AP very easily. Although this match isn't necessarily a one shot if yami also upscales from her own value, but I find it hard to believe that tatsumaki's AP advantage isn't rather significant here

 

[Arnoldstone18]

this is a one shot, my vote is on tatsumaki
also, tatsumaki uses her own aura as her barrier, she doesnt need to put up a shield to defend herself

Show me this aura based barrier that couldn’t turn on when this happened

 

[Kachon123]

Show me this aura based barrier that couldn’t turn on when this happened

Here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Here.

That’s just her durability enhanced by her psychic powers. It’s not an obstacle (like a forcefeild that needs to be destroyed before reaching the body) as evidently shown by the damage taken.

right?

That’s why her physical durability remains unknown.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yes, she was able to sense Psykos and Drive Knight (who is a robot/cyborg) energy even while they were underground but if you want to get super technical about it in about 5 days the next OPM chapter is going to be released where Tatsumaki is likely to directly manipulate Saitama's aura.

All of this is assuming that Tatsumaki doesn't start the fight with her barriers, which is false.

But let's assume that for some reason Tatsumaki doesn't start with his barrier active against someone who by SBA she knows means her harm or death. Even then, Tatsumaki's starting move is using TK restrain, which in this case Ichika can somewhat resist but still struggle. Once Tatsumaki sees that she didn't turn Ichika to ground beef she will immediatly activate her barrier as she is in combat.

And no, Zekken shouldn't activate before she uses TK, it's thought vs action and thoughts are always faster than actions.

Tatsumaki setting up her barrier is not thought based afaik. She needs to perform gestures to set it up iirc. So idk why you’re claiming it’s thought based maybe you have your reasons. I only know of her aura being passive to enhance durability up to >5.8 Exatons and her barriers she enacts with hand gestures.

So no it’s action vs action.

All the times I know of, Tatsumaki has to notice the threat to set up her barriers. In this case, she can only go off Ichika’s Ki rising in an instant. And by the time she begins her hand gesture, it’s simply over.

Ichika blitzes and decapitates her with her sword.

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki setting up her barrier is not thought based afaik. She needs to perform gestures to set it up iirc

Uh, no.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Uh, no.

She’s literally crossing her arms in your own scan to form the barrier.

 

[Maxeez]

voting Ichika for now fra

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sorry. I was too focused on Tatsumaki's thicc thighs. What was your argument again?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Sorry. I was too focused on Tatsumaki's thicc thighs. What was your argument again?

ngl me too… don’t even ask me why I had them stashed in my phone

 

[RandomGuy2345]

ngl me too… don’t even ask me why I had them stashed in my phone

A man of culture I see.

 

[Tatsumi504]

She’s literally crossing her arms in your own scan to form the barrier.

I wouldn't say that's needed to form the barrier. It's a defensive stance any normal person would assume in the middle of danger

 

[Recon1511]

It's irrelevant he literally ignored the part of my argument where Tatsumaki starts with thought based TK restraint which the moment she sees Ichika can match it and slowly overpower it she will activate her barriers

Besides most of those panels are Tatsumaki deflecting energy blasts with her TK lol

 

[Recon1511]

Hell in one panel she isn't even putting a barrier up she was clashing with Psykorochi

And in other she is just taken aback from being suddenly attacked by Orochi's dragons from behind

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I wouldn't say that's needed to form the barrier. It's a defensive stance any normal person would assume in the middle of danger

The preponderance of evidence is in my favor. Gestures are needed to form the barrier no matter how small.

I mean I can show you a scan of her forming a barrier with a swing of her finger.

This just means that taking a defensive stance also counts towards forming a barrier. So forming a barrier is not thought based.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The preponderance of evidence is in my favor. Gestures are needed to form the barrier no matter how small.

3 of your scans are her deflecting energy blasts with Tk though while the other one just shows her with a barrier already formed

 

[Recon1511]

Hell even the ******* meat puppet Gyoro Gyoro (who is a far inferior esper than Tatsumaki and Psykos) can create barriers without actively having to move anything:

Here he is standing next to Orochi doing nothing yet he created a barrier to protect himself from his flames

Here he is fully focusing on compressing Tatsumaki yet you can see a barrier around him from the start

Here Tatsumaki with her arms crossed creates a barrier to face a fodder

 

[Recon1511]

And all of this still ignores that Tatsumaki starts with thought based TK restrain, and once she realizes Ichika with effort can still somewhat move she will definitely create a barrier around herself (ALL OF THIS ASSUMING THAT TATSUMAKI FOR SOME REASON DOESN'T STRAIGHT UP CREATE ONE WHEN ENTERING COMBAT, WHICH IS A BIG ASSUMPTION)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It's irrelevant he literally ignored the part of my argument where Tatsumaki starts with thought based TK restraint which the moment she sees Ichika can match it and slowly overpower it she will activate her barriers

My apologies if I missed this but how does this help your case?

You said she starts by sensing now with this? Anyway I’ll respond.

Ichika starts with a Zetten strike, a TK will only make her slow a bit to get it off. Once Tats realizes that Ichika is overcoming her, it would’ve been too late since all she’ll see after a struggling Ichika is her decapitated body (the head survives for a few seconds after decapitation ). Hope this makes sense.

edit: [retracted text here]

Besides most of those panels are Tatsumaki deflecting energy blasts with her TK lol

It’s her conjuring barriers lol. You can literally see barriers in her arm or covering her body.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

3 of your scans are her deflecting energy blasts with Tk though while the other one just shows her with a barrier already formed

Point them out let me see

 

[Tatsumi504]

Point them out let me see

1, 3 & 4 in descending order is her using Tk iirc.

 

[Recon1511]

Literally using TK to disperse a energy blast

This scan proves nothing it's just Tatsumaki taken aback from being suddenly attacked from behind by dozens of Orochi's dragons

Here she is just clashing with a newly formed Psykorochi and comenting on how hard it is to overpower her

This is the most blatant one here is the full sequence, she just used her TK to grab deflect a Psykorochi blast and then immobilize her, not creating a barrier.

It’s her conjuring barriers lol. You can literally see barriers in her arm or covering her body.

Her hands are glowing because she is using her powers, even her head can glow like that, it has nothing to do with barriers.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Hell even the ******* meat puppet Gyoro Gyoro (who is a far inferior esper than Tatsumaki and Psykos) can create barriers without actively having to move anything:

Here he is standing next to Orochi doing nothing yet he created a barrier to protect himself from his flames

Here he is fully focusing on compressing Tatsumaki yet you can see a barrier around him from the start

Your argument is “Tatsumaki is stronger than Gyoro Gyoro, therefore she should form barriers like he does”

What does this have to do with strength

---

Thought she was making rubbles float around her with the other dude.

Before I address this I want to ask a question.

And all of this still ignores that Tatsumaki starts with thought based TK restrain, and once she realizes Ichika with effort can still somewhat move she will definitely create a barrier around herself (ALL OF THIS ASSUMING THAT TATSUMAKI FOR SOME REASON DOESN'T STRAIGHT UP CREATE ONE WHEN ENTERING COMBAT, WHICH IS A BIG ASSUMPTION)

???

You know there is a thing called “waiting”. Stop flaring up at everything.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Tatsumaki is stronger

It's about skill not strength. Tatsumaki could easily perform a skill that took her sister years to master despite never having done it before. There's no esper more skilled than her currently except geryuganshwoop (is that how it's spelled?) who can move objects around at SoL without them burning out from friction

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Your argument is “Tatsumaki is stronger than Gyoro Gyoro, therefore she should form barriers like he does”

They use the exact same power system, except tatsumaki is way better at it
incredibly straightforward, idk how this argument has even lasted to this point

 

[Arnoldstone18]

1, 3 & 4 in descending order is her using Tk iirc.

Okay

Quick question on TK being thought based.

Has she only not performed a gesture on very casual feats? Or are there times where she performs non casual feats without her hands.

 

[Recon1511]

You said she starts by sensing now with this? Anyway I’ll respond.

Ichika starts with a Zetten strike, a TK will only make her slow a bit to get it off. Once Tats realizes that Ichika is overcoming her, it would’ve been too late since all she’ll see after a struggling Ichika is her decapitated body (the head survives for a few seconds after decapitation ). Hope this makes sense.

I said she has Extrasensory Perception and should be able to feel/see Ichika's aura but Tatsumaki always starts with thought based TK.

Also it's not "slowing her a bit" their LS is almost equal and their AP is comparable, it's definitely slowing her down considerably and giving enough warning to Tatsumaki that she should put her barriers up (Again, assuming she doesn't start combat with her barriers up which makes no sense given that virtually every esper, especially one that excels at multi tasking like Tatsumaki have been shown to do. Only exception I can think of is Gearsper who can't even use his powers properly)

 

[Tatsumi504]

Has she only not performed a gesture on very casual feats? Or are there times where she performs non casual feats without her hands

I can't be 100% sure. Like BC I'm reading OPM solely for the fun of it. Sometimes they use gestures and sometimes they don't. I don't know if it helps increase their strength or if it's required to utilize more power, it could even be purely artistic.

P.S: Nothing i say here is me voting so please don't misunderstand. I'm just hopping in and out addressing points

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I can't be 100% sure. Like BC I'm reading OPM solely for the fun of it. Sometimes they use gestures and sometimes they don't. I don't know if it helps increase their strength or if it's required to utilize more power, it could even be purely artistic.

P.S: Nothing i say here is me voting so please don't misunderstand. I'm just hopping in and out addressing points

Fair,

I’ll respond to everyone else later, I need a bit of a break, I just saw @ZillertheBucko quote a message, and It’s already over @Recon1511’s message and he’s already saying I’m ignoring stuff. So while I regroup I’d like to just talk with just you for a sec to clear up some things on your POV and, then address the scans I brought earlier before responding to @ZillertheBucko @Recon1511 and @Kachon123 if his message is up there.


What do you think about the validity of the following scan:

 

[Kachon123]

What do you think about the validity of the following scan:

Not valid to the manga. Webcomic cannon, especially when its blatantly contradicted by the manga. Doesn't apply here.

 

[Recon1511]

Fair,

I’ll respond to everyone else later, I need a bit of a break, I just saw @ZillertheBucko quote a message, and It’s already over @Recon1511’s message and he’s already saying I’m ignoring stuff. So while I regroup I’d like to just talk with just you for a sec to clear up some things on your POV and, then address the scans I brought earlier before responding to @ZillertheBucko @Recon1511 and @Kachon123 if his message is up there.


What do you think about the validity of the following scan:

Webcomic and manga continuity are different to the point they might as well be considered separate verses. The only esper in the manga who kinda has this weakness is Fubuki.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Alright then

I’d like to restart the discussion. I really don’t want to reply to a bunch of messages on just one of my messages. So let’s just take it easy. Okay ill go.

---

Zetten is a technique that isn’t just performed in one attack. It can be spread accross multiple attacks at lower AP that it’s highest output. For example, 5 Strikes per Zetten are 4x base AP. 1 strike per Zetten is 20x the AP (which is what is reflected in the OP). 2 strikes per Zetten is 10x base AP (which is half of what is reflected in the OP.

So like @Recon1511 said she starts with thought based TK hold. I think this only works on those or things far inferior to her. But let’s assume it works on Ichika at full effectiveness. Ichika will struggle and eventually overcome and as soon as Tatsumaki sees that, she will put up her barrier. Now the question is what if Ichika foresees this with her Precog?

I think that Ichika will foresee the barrier, and switch to Zetten over two strikes. This type of Zetten makes Ichika comparable to Tatsumaki’s value. So if Ichika breaks the barrier Tatsumaki won’t have time to set up another one because Ichika will blitz her with the second strike at her opening which is usually the neck area with a sword.

Tatsumaki wouldn’t layer it because she still has no idea how powerful Ichika is. Tatsumaki will see that Ichika only has melee weapons so she won’t guess that she can speed in for a slash or use her slashing ranged magic attack.

 

[Coomandar]

ninjas in OPM’s tends to use only a sword, i dont think tatsumaki would understimate anyone just because this one is using weapons

 

[Arnoldstone18]

ninjas in OPM’s tends to use only a sword, i dont think tatsumaki would understimate anyone just because this one is using weapons

Never said she underestimates. I’m saying she has no reason to layer her barriers given that the situation hasn’t gotten to that point yet.

Also isn’t she like overconfident with her abilities too? Which is all the more reason why she won’t layer her barrier right off the bat.

 

[Coomandar]

Never said she underestimates.

you literally did but ok
what? she is fighting and has no reason to active her barriers?????? She always multitasked, but the basic she cant do? Like, just by the fact that she is on battle mode, she is already shielded

 

[Coomandar]

Never said she underestimates. I’m saying she has no reason to layer her barriers given that the situation hasn’t gotten to that point yet.

Also isn’t she like overconfident with her abilities too? Which is all the more reason why she won’t layer her barrier right off the bat.

her overconfidence until now, NEVER really affected her efficiency.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

you literally did but ok
what? she is fighting and has no reason to active her barriers?????? She always multitasked, but the basic she cant do? Like, just by the fact that she is on battle mode, she is already shielded

No I said she had no knowledge on Ichika’s strength. That’s completely different.

I never said she doesn’t activate her barriers please read every word in that text carefully.

The next time you misconstrue what I said about that paragraph I’ll ignore you.

 

[Coomandar]

Tatsumaki will see that Ichika only has melee weapons so she won’t guess that she can speed in for a slash or use her slashing ranged magic attack

isnt this the definition of “underestimate an enemy by the appearence”?
bruh
also, if you wanna ignore me, do as you please

 

[Arnoldstone18]

her overconfidence until now, NEVER really affected her efficiency.

never said it did.

i simply said she won’t add layers onto her barrier.