Tier 5-C The Sky Apocalypse Tournament (2023): Nightmare vs Merus

[DemonicDude]

The Angel vs Azure Knight
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XSOULOFCINDERX vs Gilad Hyperstar
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Rules:

• Attack Potency: (38 Exatons to 400 Exatons) (Willing to make exceptions)
• Speed: Equalized speed in all matches
• Distance: 50 meters apart from each other
• Win: Win via killing or Incap or BFR (As long as both are not the first move for instant win)
• Knowledge: Random encounters no prior knowledge to anybody
• Participants: Total 14 Participants! One spot belongs to me
• Location: All matches will take place Sky High in a levatation Mountain known as The Mountain of Doom. This place is 20000 m high in the sky floatting. Your character if fell from the mountain will die and you will lose the match, Be wise with your picks the land is jungle with giant sequoia trees.
  
  (Location picture below)
  (Inside View)
  
  

  Spoiler

  

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Combatants:

VS

Result​

Characters:	Attack Potency:	Votes:
Merus:	Baseline (Scales above baseline via scaling to Jaco who is strong as raditz)
Nightmare:	Baseline	8 (XSOUL, Arkenis, DD, Random, Imagyium, Nonless21, Merus, Epicchev)
Inconclusive:

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I have no idea about the other guy. What they do? Merus will probably blast him with Galactic Patrol guns or something

Merus also have a sizable AP gap since he scales to Jaco who likely is stronger than Raditz (though a bkt debatable since he was scared of most Frieza Force Soldiers)

 

[DemonicDude]

I have no idea about the other guy. What they do? Merus will probably blast him with Galactic Patrol guns or something

Merus also have a sizable AP gap since he scales to Jaco who likely is stronger than Raditz (though a bkt debatable since he was scared of most Frieza Force Soldiers)

This is a mid+ hax tournament I see BFR on Merus profile it could be a good wincon if he uses it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This is a mid+ hax tournament I see BFR on Merus profile it could be a good wincon if he uses it.

That's only as an Angel. 5-C Merus is the mortal one, so he only have his mortal abilities

 

[Arkenis]

So far two viable win cons I see for nightmare is madness manip type 2 and soul bfr? how does merus react

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So far two viable win cons I see for nightmare is madness manip type 2 and soul bfr? how does merus react

How is it done? If they are non aoe attacks Merus can just dodge probably

 

[Arkenis]

How is it done? If they are non aoe attacks Merus can just dodge probably

the madness just says he can effect the area around and says his powers hundreds of km. not sure if that's solely the madness. And he has teleportation, so even dodging would be useless.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

the madness just says he can effect the area around and says his powers hundreds of km. not sure if that's solely the madness. And he has teleportation, so even dodging would be useless.

Then, isn't it kinda stompy since anyone who doesn't resist just get incap from madness manip?

 

[Arkenis]

Then, isn't it kinda stompy since anyone who doesn't resist just get incap from madness manip?

idk? Im just going off what I see, I'm prob wrong or missing some context.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I guess we should wait for supporters

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Nightmare's passive abilities take time to fully effect people around him and those with immense willpower can stave off the effects for even longer though they'll still succumb to it at some point. As for his Soulhax and BFR, every attack he does damages the soul with Soul Wave specifically being an explosion that can be anywhere from big enough to cover just his body to Soul Ripping an entire army while his BFR takes his targets to Astral Chaos, a realm with far more potent versions of his passive abilities but he only ever takes people there when he gets defeated to fight his true self Inferno, essentially making any fight with Nightmare a Two Round fight to the Death unless he just thinks you're not worth the effort anymore. While he can Teleport, he doesn't really abuse it in battle except for as Inferno and even then he doesn't really spam it but he certainly makes use of it.

 

[DemonicDude]

What is the conclusion here

 

[Imaginym]

I was asked to comment here. I do not know either of these characters.
What AP values do the two of them scale to, & how?

Merus:
Stamina: Extremely high
Range: Standard melee range, Extended melee range with staff, Universal with ki blasts and attacks

Standard Equipment: His Staff, Ray Gun

Intelligence: Extremely High; As an angel, he should have extensive knowledge about the multiverse and be extremely capable in martial arts. Is an adept patrolman and arguably the best agent that the Galactic Patrol has at its disposal

....Uhhh....? How much of that applies to his mortal forms? Dang unkeyed statistics.
Also, what's the basis for the claim he's the best agent among the Galactic Patrol, & is it true for his mortal key, given time likely passed between the two where he improved, IDK?

Stamina: Superhuman

Range: Extended melee range with his sword, Hundreds of Kilometers to Planetary with his powers

Standard Equipment: Soul Edge, Armor

Intelligence: Gifted

Weaknesses: Must keep devouring souls in order to stay alive as he is an empty suit of armor with no actual wielder for the sword, he is actually the sword rather than the armor that wields it, meaning that breaking the sword will kill him

Bruh. Neither of them have Stamina justifications.
Their unjustified stamina pains me almost as much as the lack of info on his skill level.

From the Stamina Page's Basic Guidelines section:
"To reiterate, these are only basic guidelines and should not be treated as a replacement for proper explanations, sources, and justifications. Please avoid generic terms such as "high" or "very high" and so on, as well."

Credit to Nightmare's profile, at least "Superhuman" is a recommended rating term in the Stamina page's section. "Extremely high" isn't even that, & is arguably discouraged!

Anyway, how often does Nightmare's "need to eat souls" issue come up & how does it affect him over time?
How skilled & intelligent is he & in what regards?
Both of them may also need varying levels of clarification on the Ranges of their stuff.


Again, I was asked to comment here. At the time I'm typing this, I think that my stance is I don't know enough to make a conclusion, if my conclusion is desired here, speaking as someone who has admittedly learned alot about Dragon Ball... EXCEPT the parts involving Merus, & who barely even knows the Soul Calibur franchise.

 

[Stillwinston]

So what stops Nightmare from going Watch This and soul haxing?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Anyway, how often does Nightmare's "need to eat souls" issue come up & how does it affect him over time?

This is barely an issue that would come in combat, even if he wasn't eating his opponents souls as he can survive for at the very least an entire day without killing people and devouring their souls

How skilled & intelligent is he & in what regards?

He has all the skill of his past wielders, which would include Cervantes and Siegfried, the latter of whom would later go on to be an equal match for Nightmare in every encounter they have despite Nightmare possessing his skill. At the very least this makes him kind of a skill monster as he has several different weapon and martial arts fighting style under his belt that he's a master of. That being said I don't think he's more skilled than Meerus is.

 

[Imaginym]

So what stops Nightmare from going Watch This and soul haxing?

Do you mean this?:

• Evil Seed: Nightmare exclaims "Watch this!" and punches the opponent with his claw, knocking his foe backwards. He uppercuts him/her into the air, then slams his sword point first into the ground and a ball of energy erupts around his opponent as they scream. This move drains their soul into Soul Edge.

If so, why is it relevant? Is it potent enough to drain all of Merus's mortal soul into Soul Edge or destroy it at all at once? Would "uppercutting him into the air" BFR him? Would it one-shot?
No offense meant; I genuinely don't know the relevance of your question, & sincerely wish to know.

As for countermeasures....
Dodging skill/general fighting skill? The calling the attack being a tell? Merus has flight & acrobatics.

This is barely an issue that would come in combat, even if he wasn't eating his opponents souls as he can survive for at the very least an entire day without killing people and devouring their souls

Ah okay. Maybe that should be clarified in his Stamina. It'd be a start, given its actual COMPLETE lack of justifications, currently.

He has all the skill of his past wielders, which would include Cervantes and Siegfried, the latter of whom would later go on to be an equal match for Nightmare in every encounter they have despite Nightmare possessing his skill. At the very least this makes him kind of a skill monster as he has several different weapon and martial arts fighting style under his belt that he's a master of.

I don't know how skilled his past wielders are, so I also don't know how skilled equalling Nightmare (Or was it Inferno?) like Siegfried did is.

That said, multiple weapons & martial arts (Is which known?) is good.

That being said I don't think he's more skilled than Meerus is.

Wait, what? Why?
Keep in mind, this being 5-A Meerus means he's a mortal, not a 3-A Angel.


Also, looking at his profile, since this is 5-C, Nightmare is not Nightmare here, but Inferno, right?
Also, why is Nightmare in the Flight Users category? I can't find Flight in his Powers & Abilities.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Do you mean this?:

• Evil Seed: Nightmare exclaims "Watch this!" and punches the opponent with his claw, knocking his foe backwards. He uppercuts him/her into the air, then slams his sword point first into the ground and a ball of energy erupts around his opponent as they scream. This move drains their soul into Soul Edge.

If so, why is it relevant? Is it potent enough to drain all of Merus's mortal soul into Soul Edge or destroy it at all at once? Would "uppercutting him into the air" BFR him? Would it one-shot?
No offense meant; I genuinely don't know the relevance of your question, & sincerely wish to know.

As for countermeasures....
Dodging skill/general fighting skill? The calling the attack being a tell? Merus has flight & acrobatics.

Nightmare can actually do that attack without combo'ing his opponent first, that's just how he does it in the gameplay as a super attack.

Ah okay. Maybe that should be clarified in his Stamina. It'd be a start, given its actual COMPLETE lack of justifications, currently.

Soul Calibur in general is kind of a mess right now.

I don't know how skilled his past wielders are, so I also don't know how skilled equalling Nightmare (Or was it Inferno?) like Siegfried did is.

That said, multiple weapons & martial arts (Is which known?) is good.

He's a master with Zweihanders, Dual Wield Swords that has a Pistol built into one of them and can copy the weapons and fighting styles of whoever he's fighting as shown in the Inferno Boss from SC2, though Nightmare prefers to stick with the Zweihander.

Wait, what? Why?
Keep in mind, this being 5-A Meerus means he's a mortal, not a 3-A Angel.

I might be misremembering or something but I could've sworn Meerus as a mortal outskilled Goku at one point or another.

Also, looking at his profile, since this is 5-C, Nightmare is not Nightmare here, but Inferno, right?

No, this is Soul Calibur 4 Nightmare. Inferno amd Nightmare are equal to each other in the original timeline.

Also, why is Nightmare in the Flight Users category? I can't find Flight in his Powers & Abilities.

He used to have another Key that scales to Algol known as Night Terror who could fly.

 

[Imaginym]

Nightmare can actually do that attack without combo'ing his opponent first, that's just how he does it in the gameplay as a super attack.

Yeah but it's still a punch with a verbal tell, no?
Even if Merus didn't match Goku, as a space patrol, he can probably know to watch out.

Soul Calibur in general is kind of a mess right now.

Oof.

He's a master with Zweihanders, Dual Wield Swords that has a Pistol built into one of them and can copy the weapons and fighting styles of whoever he's fighting as shown in the Inferno Boss from SC2, though Nightmare prefers to stick with the Zweihander.

Thanks for clarifying.

I might be misremembering or something but I could've sworn Meerus as a mortal outskilled Goku at one point or another.

Hopefully someone can clarify that.

No, this is Soul Calibur 4 Nightmare. Inferno amd Nightmare are equal to each other in the original timeline.

Ah. Which are & aren't the original timeline?

He used to have another Key that scales to Algol known as Night Terror who could fly.

IDK who Algae Algol is, but neat! (Sorry, sorry.)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah but it's still a punch with a verbal tell, no?
Even if Merus didn't match Goku, as a space patrol, he can probably know to watch out.

No, it's a big **** off explosion that can cover kilometers at its largest that rips the souls from those it hits unless they can resist Soul Edge's powers.

Ah. Which are & aren't the original timeline?

Soul Blade through Soul Calibur 5 is the original timeline while Soul Calibur 6 is the Reboot Timeline though they have crossed over in Cassandra's DLC story in 6.

 

[Stillwinston]

Anyhow unless Merus has something that can stop Nightmare from soul nuking him with a love tap I vote for the sword boi I guess, all Nightmare has to do is lift his sword up pretty much and there it goes more or less.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Soul Blade through Soul Calibur 5 is the original timeline while Soul Calibur 6 is the Reboot Timeline though they have crossed over in Cassandra's DLC story in 6.

I thought SC 5 was apart of the new timeline...

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Anyhow unless Merus has something that can stop Nightmare from soul nuking him with a love tap I vote for the sword boi I guess, all Nightmare has to do is lift his sword up pretty much and there it goes more or less.

Tbf, Nightmare doesn't really open with Soul Wave though it certainly is an in-character attack for him to use eventually.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I thought SC 5 was apart of the new timeline...

No, it's the end of the original timeline.

 

[Imaginym]

Anyhow unless Merus has something that can stop Nightmare from soul nuking him with a love tap I vote for the sword boi I guess, all Nightmare has to do is lift his sword up pretty much and there it goes more or less.

Could he fly out of range, or outrun the blast?
He has ranged energy attacks (Via his ray gun, lol.) at least.

 

[Arkenis]

NIghtmare fra

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Could he fly out of range, or outrun the blast?
He has ranged energy attacks (Via his ray gun, lol.) at least.

He could as Nightmare doesn't usually start with the big explosions first though if he starts getting annoyed then he will and his temper and bloodlust go hand in hand with each other so he gets mad fast. That being said he's gonna need to beat Nightmare fast and then get the **** out of dodge since Nightmare's post defeat BFR doesn't have an all encompassing range because there's no way he can escape Astral Chaos even if he defeats Inferno without his Angel Powers since that requires Dimensional Travel, he'll be stuck and passively haxxed the entire time he stays there.

 

[Imaginym]

So, where in the tier are the two of them? Maybe Merus has a statistical advantage?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, where in the tier are the two of them? Maybe Merus has a statistical advantage?

Nightmare upscales from Baseline.

 

[Imaginym]

Nightmare upscales from Baseline.

Anyone have any idea where Merus is?

 

[Arkenis]

Anyone have any idea where Merus is?

scaling to raditz i believe which is just 29 exatons

 

[Imaginym]

scaling to raditz i believe which is just 29 exatons

Above or below? Because Moon begins at 29.6.

 

[Spinoirr]

scaling to raditz i believe which is just 29 exatons

Basically upscales massively above baseline

 

[Spinoirr]

Roshi's moon-busting feat is 29.6 exatons.

Old King Piccolo is far stronger. >29.6 exatons.

King Piccolo in his youth is much stronger. >29.6 exatons.

Popo is far stronger than Goku after he beat Piccolo. >29.6 exatons.

Tien fought suppressed Goku, whom he admitted to be stronger than when he defeated King Piccolo. >29.6 exatons.

Kami is far more powerful than Popo, and put up a better fight against Piccolo than Tien against suppressed Goku. >29.6 exatons.

Kami stated that weighted Piccolo alone is stronger than his true form even without going all-out. >29.6 exatons.

Saiyan Saga​

Weighted Piccolo destroyed the Moon with a power level of at most 329 (his full power was 408 against Raditz) >29.6 exatons.

And merus and Jaco scale above that

 

[Imaginym]

Roshi's moon-busting feat is 29.6 exatons.

Old King Piccolo is far stronger. >29.6 exatons.

King Piccolo in his youth is much stronger. >29.6 exatons.

Popo is far stronger than Goku after he beat Piccolo. >29.6 exatons.

Tien fought suppressed Goku, whom he admitted to be stronger than when he defeated King Piccolo. >29.6 exatons.

Kami is far more powerful than Popo, and put up a better fight against Piccolo than Tien against suppressed Goku. >29.6 exatons.

Kami stated that weighted Piccolo alone is stronger than his true form even without going all-out. >29.6 exatons.

Saiyan Saga​

Weighted Piccolo destroyed the Moon with a power level of at most 329 (his full power was 408 against Raditz) >29.6 exatons.

And merus and Jaco scale above that

Was just viewing that, lol.

 

[Imaginym]

Basically upscales massively above baseline

Ah.
At least Moon level (Despite losing his angel powers, he shouldn't be weaker than Jaco)
Attack Potency: Moon level (KO'ed a Frieza Soldier), higher with his spaceship

Nice scaling chain, bro, hits a dead end.
Lemme check if Frieza Soldier has a power level.

I wonder if there's scans, but maybe it's more important that we know if the soldiers had known power levels?

Anyway, Merus, is roughly equal to Jaco.

& I guess they can't be on par with this:
Tien and Yamcha outclassed Raditz-level Saibamen. >29.6 exatons.

Given that scaling chain, Jaco & Merus scale to what, above 7 steps above 29.6 Exatons?
Meanwhile....

Nightmare upscales from Baseline.

Upscales from baseline how much?

Because the scaling chain makes me wonder if Merus won't be hitting Nightmare like a truck, or even several intergalactic highway 18,000 wheeler trucks.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Upscales from baseline how much?

Because the scaling chain makes me wonder if Merus won't be hitting Nightmare like a truck, or even several intergalactic highway 18,000 wheeler trucks.

He upscales above Abyss who's Baseline and then he has an amp that makes him unquantifiably stronger than in base. Either way, Meerus would still have to kill him really fast for Nightmare to not start adapting to and mimicing his fighting style as shown in SC2 and even then still have to then get the hell out of dodge to avoid getting BFR'd to Astral Chaos upon defeating Nightmare.

 

[Imaginym]

Makes me wonder about his tactic & experiences.

Like, does Mortal Merus actually have experience against Goku? & what's his in-character tactics in fights?
Would he have the skill & volition to finish Nightmare off.

 

[Arkenis]

What merus’s win cons?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What merus’s win cons?

None.

Soul dude who brandishes corruption sword stomps.

 

[Imaginym]

What merus’s win cons?

I mean, he's probably got way higher AP, as discussed earlier, he can do energy protection with his ray gun, he's got skill from being a Galactic Patrolman & maybe from fighting Goku (Fact-check, please?), & he has Flight but Nightmare's profile doesn't list him having it, & with Speed Equalized, MAYBE he could avoid the explosion, especially if using his ray gun lets him be far enough?

Also, he MIGHT outrange, depending on the details of his un-keyed range statistic:
Range: Standard melee range, Extended melee range with staff, Universal with ki blasts and attacks

But some or all of those Range Statistics could very well be for his Angel Key rather than his Mortal Key.