Tier 5-C The Sky Apocalypse Tournament (2023): Superman vs Shock Rock

[DemonicDude]

The Fulmini Alien vs The Kryptonian Alien
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Popted2 vs Demonicdude
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Rules:

• Attack Potency: (38 Exatons to 400 Exatons) (Willing to make exceptions)
• Speed: Equalized speed in all matches
• Distance: 50 meters apart from each other
• Win: Win via killing or Incap or BFR (As long as both are not the first move for instant win)
• Knowledge: Random encounters no prior knowledge to anybody
• Participants: Total 14 Participants! One spot belongs to me
• Location: All matches will take place Sky High in a levatation Mountain known as The Mountain of Doom. This place is 20000 m high in the sky floatting. Your character if fell from the mountain will die and you will lose the match, Be wise with your picks the land is jungle with giant sequoia trees.
  
  (Location picture below)
  (Inside View)
  
  

  Spoiler

  

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Combatants:

VS

Result​

Characters:	Attack Potency:	Votes:
Superman:	294 Exatons
Ben as Shock Rock (Omni-Naut):	52.8 Exatons	8 (DD, Reiner, Achinya, Spinor, Arnoldstone, Randomguy, Mariogoods, Spinoirr)
Inconclusive:

 

[Chariot190]

Supes has a definite AP advantage to the point he's bordering on one shot (almost 6x) as well as a mobility advantage but looking at Shock's profile, energy redirection might **** over heat vision, negating it, as well as TK (depending how shock uses it) could be troublesome, but at the same time, Supes has resistance to electricity manip. But at the same time^2, Supes has funny frost breath that Shock lacks resistance toward.

Shock has some troublesome things, but leaning towards Supes atm due to ice manip and stat advantage, the former of which can also incap so he doesn't have to **** with that high regen.

 

[DemonicDude]

Comparison:
Attack Potency:

• Superman: 294 Exatons Exatons
• Shock Rock: 52.8 Exatons
• Superman holds 5.56x advantage (NOT cough cough bordering on one shot)

Lifting Strength:

• Superman: Class M
• Shock Rock: Class G, Class P with Telekinesis
• Shock Rock holds clear cut LS advantage.

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To answer Shock Rock us Telekises via pointing at his target.
Analysis:
Superman profile does not state him having combat techniques so I'll think he relies on his brute strength if he does, Then you are facing someone who can literally think and create any energy weapon he wants and will go as far as his creativity goes.

• Any energy attack Superman throws get's absorbed and then shot right back at him, Superman doesn't have resistence to thought based Telekinesis and SR is going to toy around with his humungous LS difference.
  
  
• He can fly right SR can fly throughout the galaxy with his jetpack and boost his jetpack speed to dodge any attacks heck Omni Naut aliens can go past the Moon in like few seconds.
  
  
• Throughout the entire fight Shock Rock will use special and creative attacks such as The Bluemerang One of his signature moves where Shock Rock can make an energy boomerang which he calls 'The Bluemerang" and use it effectively against his opponents, it spins right back and attack them. He has shown good marksmanship using it.
  
  
• Much like the rest of the Omni Forms he has enhanced layer of durability on top of his own, Even if Supes is able to catch him with Flight Boost activted and begins to negate his armor this STILL gives him enough time to use his LS to restrict him via Energy Lasso, Forcefield, Barriers, Energy bubbles etc..
  
  
• Superman can use Fire/Heat Vision attacks but SR and make Forcefields and Barreiers of any shape and size to not allow such attacks to harm him he can straight up tank fire attacks and since his species are energy absorbers and majority of Ben's aliens can absorb and shoot them back throughout the entire show such as Heatblast and Diamondhead.
  
  
• Any Attack laser attack Superman throws gets Absorbed then Ampilfied by SR and shot back giving him delicious power ups.
  He will create an Energy Lasso to grab Superman and restrict him (Which he can do with regular telekisnes too, He has waaay too many options ) Superman can fly all he wants once he's restricted he's getting cut open with an Energy Chainsaw.
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Wincon Moves:​

He actually doesn't need to go in depth of his arsenal of weapons, All Shock Rock needs is to point at the direction of the enemy and use his special moves from one of the dozens listed on his profile and that is known as

Energy Cage​

• SR's finishing move is Energy Cage where he permanently incapacitate the enemy with an energy cage this lasts permanently as long as he desires. This is a unique move he can make an energy cage that lasts permanently even after detransforming and used it to trap Vilgax for hours who couldn't escape all night and has to literally sit through
  
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Skill and Intelligence:

• Warlord of the Galaxy Vilgax who has been a warlord conquering multiple planets and has 3000 years of expierence as you can see failed to break of his crystals.
• He defeated Warlord of the Galaxy Vilgax
• Also Shock Rock kept up with Agent Six who is an agent of Providence Organization and given the title of "Sixth deadliest man on Earth"

For reference on how good Vilgax is

Vilgax himself designed the Omntrix device that transform you into millions of aliens (Supergenius intelligence), Conqueror of 10 planets, Basically top 5 people on Earth like Agent Six can't defeat Ben along with the villain High Override the destroyer and conqueror of planets who leads his army to conquer planets, lead to destruction of his own species planet (and has conquered galaxies) everyone on Fulmas planet are soldiers with natural warrior instinct as they are constantly battling with other planets & conquering them, yet was defeated by Ben and Shock Rock has all the resistances mentioned on Reboot Ben's profile

Supes has resistance to electricity manip. But at the same time^2, Supes has funny frost breath that Shock lacks resistance toward.

Except it's not Electrcity it's Omnitrix energy known as OMNI-Energy.

• Much like the rest of his fulmini species he is made up of an special omni-energy. Frost breath has a whole can of worms, Does it freezes your organs if so then....Well SR does NOT have any organs he exists a form of pure energy inside the Rock Armor and ON TOP of that Rock Armor is Space Armor.
  (He has layers). Space armor itself warrents additional resistances on other planets
  (Provides space armor and protection in outer space and other planetary environments)

Shock has some troublesome things, but leaning towards Supes atm due to ice manip and stat advantage, the former of which can also incap so he doesn't have to **** with that high regen.

AP alone should NOT be able to defeat SR especially not in Omni-Naut armor

This should not be able to defeat Ben because he has already defeated Stats Amped users and usually defeated people in 1 vs multiple scenerio. He has Supernatural Willpower.

Feats:

• Defeated Vilgax and the Weatherheads at the same time.
• Defeated Alien V.
• Ben was not hypnotized from Zombobo's hypno machine.
• Broke free from the illusion world of Zombozo by concentrating enough.
• Defeated High Override and overcame his mind control (Who was amplified by the entire Fulmini army)
• Resisted King Koil's Hypnosis.
• Defeated many wrestlers during a wrestling tournament and held his own against Iron Kyle.
• Ben on consisent bases has defeated (1 vs 3) opponents at the same time
  Defeated Vilgax and the Weatherheads at the same time (1 vs 3 fight) even tanked their most powerful attack and was able to harm Kraab and SixSix (In a 2 vs 1) bounty hunter fight.

Higher AP hits are NOTHING new to him and with Supernatural will power on top he'll force his way to execute Energy Cage or rip him open with an Energy Chainsaw.

 

[Chariot190]

How often does he lead with the cage, or TK.
And how long can he be used for/fight for.

 

[DemonicDude]

How often does he lead with the cage, or TK.
And how long can he be used for/fight for.

Used it 5-6 times, Used it as an opening move against Vilgax, Used it to again even on minor animal villains of Dr animo and against a dragon as well, Uses Telekinesis to ride energy hoverboards and pushing spaceship. Ben in the classic series was hot headed using frost rather than brain but in Reboot, He uses creativity. There is no time limit on how long he can use his alien for. (lasting from 15-20 minutes)
He has learned Shorts Cuts to bypass general Omnitrix function from creator of the Omnitrix Azmuth himself and choose any alien for extended periods.

 

[Aachintya31]

Following.

 

[Chariot190]

Used it 5-6 times, Used it as an opening move against Vilgax, Used it to again even on minor animal villains of Dr animo and against a dragon as well, Uses Telekinesis to ride energy hoverboards and pushing spaceship. Ben in the classic series was hot headed using frost rather than brain but in Reboot, He uses creativity.

Didn't answer my question.
He lead with it against Vilgax, fair, but it's also Vilgax, even I know that's a special case.

And then you just listed times he used it, but how fast, what caused him to opt to use it, etc? I need to know how quickly into a match he's willing to use that cage move. Vilgax notwithstanding given it's Vilgax and I can understand Ben going balls to the wall immediately with him.

There is no time limit on how long he can use his alien for. (lasting from 15-20 minutes)

I don't get this, are you saying they used to last 15-20m? Or that's how long it'll last here? He has learned Shorts Cuts to bypass general Omnitrix function from creator of the Omnitrix Azmuth himself and choose any alien for extended periods.

That wasn't the whole of my question though, i was also asking for stamina, not just how long the Omnitrix can fight fo, but how long Ben in this specific alien can fight and keep up his powers for. Can he fight for like half an hour straight? An hour? A day? This might be important so i gotta know how good his actual stamina is in this form, the profile of which doesn't actually give anything notable.

 

[DemonicDude]

Didn't answer my question.
He lead with it against Vilgax, fair, but it's also Vilgax, even I know that's a special case.

And he lead it in Omni Naut form against the Spaceship and this is his Omni Naut form so he obviously will use it and even can be seen casually using it to make energy hoverboard to glide on.

And then you just listed times he used it, but how fast, what caused him to opt to use it, etc? I need to know how quickly into a match he's willing to use that cage move.

Check the video of him using the Energy Net and Energy cage and count it yourself (It's the same principal) here are the videos.

• Energy Cage
• Energy Web

Vilgax notwithstanding given it's Vilgax and I can understand Ben going balls to the wall immediately with him.

Why against a random Dragon and Dr animo pet animals, He obviously uses it.

• Energy Prison

I don't get this, are you saying they used to last 15-20m? Or that's how long it'll last here?

In every single Ben 10 fight both from original Continuity and Reboot 10-15 mins is generally how Ben fights since...well forever on this site (That shouldn't be a MAJOR factor since most of his enemies gets defeated in 4-5 minutes those being Vilgax and Weatherheads)

He has learned Shorts Cuts to bypass general Omnitrix function from creator of the Omnitrix Azmuth himself and choose any alien for extended periods.

That wasn't the whole of my question though, i was also asking for stamina,

Stamina can taken from his fight against Weatherheads (Which was a One vs 3 fight) and Vilgax who later joined in also him facing Kevin's Four arms in a gladiator match.

not just how long the Omnitrix can fight fo, but how long Ben in this specific alien can fight and keep up his powers for. Can he fight for like half an hour straight? An hour? A day?

Ben himself is capable of fighting for extended periods of time as he wanted to prove the whole world that he's the best hero and want on a 24 hours hero saving the day rampage.

• Stayed awake for 24 hours. To him justice never sleeps, and he saved the day numerous times, dubbing this as Ben 24

This might be important so i gotta know how good his actual stamina is in this form, the profile of which doesn't actually give anything notable.

The whole purpose of him introducing was to face COMSIC threats making him one the most powerful alien in Ben's arsenal

Considering the fact him vs Vilgax and Weatherheads (Who can fuse together) was a 4 vs 1 fight and defeated all 4 together in BASE FORM I might add, He is the powerhouse of Ben's arsenal and his fight generally go to the time I stated above, hope this plethora of information helps.

 

[Chariot190]

The imgur links you sent didn't answer my question (they aren't even the same move at that, those moves aren't problematic in the slightest, I asked how specifically about the TK being used to restrict a foe or the cage, nets, hoverboards and non-omnidirectional fields ain't it chief), it just shows me he uses moves, but I'm not asking if he uses them, I'm asking when will he use them, specifically the actually dangerous moves five seconds in? Lead? A few minutes? You aren't actually answering my questions. i want to know how often, and when he will use the energy move he used against Vilgax in a fight, on dudes besides Vilgax.

Him being one of the most powerful aliens for cosmic threats means quite literally nothing for the debate, and had nothing to do with my question.

And the stamina feats aren't helpful either, fighting some dudes is a stamina feat, but that doesn't tell me how long he can fight for, just that he can fight multiple dudes at once. Fighting 4 dudes or Vlgax, etc don't tell me if he can fight for 10 minutes before getting winded, or 1 year without getting winded or exhausted or whatever.

This information doesn't help, all you've confirmed is that he uses his moves, and he's a strong alien.

 

[Aachintya31]

he uses them, I'm asking when will he use them, specifically the actually dangerous moves five seconds in? Lead? A few minutes?

He does it in few seconds normally. Even when very casual, he uses them in few seconds after saying a funny dialogue. And that's why the imgur links were linked so you can deduce it yourself.

You aren't actually answering my questions. i want to know how often, and when he will use the energy move he used against Vilgax in a fight, on dudes besides Vilgax.

Ben doesn't treat vilgax differently. Despite being a greater threat ,Ben fights and treats him like his usual day to day Alien enemies. It's Ben's character ,doesn't matter if Vilgax is a bigger threat to the audience.

 

[DemonicDude]

The imgur links you sent didn't answer my question

Not problematic in the slightest that's a bold claim, I'd like to see scans of this version of Superman facing someone Class P LS who does the same that SR does. He is someone who is completely unpredictable.

(they aren't even the same move at that, those moves aren't problematic in the slightest, I asked how specifically about the TK being used to restrict a foe or the cage)

Due to the amount of variatians he has with his abilities he randomly uses TK someone on object and sometimes on Enemies such as vilgax.

His TK is used

hoverboards and non-omnidirectional fields ain't it chief)

Nither is saying NONE are gonna bypass his layered durability, At least I have shown scans of him using his TK multiple times I'm trying my best to answer let's look at it again, I'm trying my best too no disrespect.

it just shows me he uses moves, but I'm not asking if he uses them, I'm asking when will he use them, specifically the actually dangerous moves five seconds in?

Since Shock Rock and Diamondhead parellel each other in many ways both in the show being refered as Ben's top aliens (Both uses RESTRICTION and Both has Ben's creativity and intelligence) I can give Diamondhead example (On the likelyhood how HOW Quicky he is to react)

1. Immediately when a tree was launched at Diamondhead he used his Crystalization, As his absolute first move (Scan)
2. He used Crystalization against a Dragon to seal him shut after a couple of 30-35 seconds (Scan Timestamp 2:38)
3. He used TK Energy cage to seal shut as opening move as Shock Rock
4. He used Energy nets as opening move to caputre Kevin's XLR8

So looking at these examples he uses Sealing Shut/Restrictions as either an opening move or after 30 seconds.

 

[Chariot190]

He does it in few seconds normally. Even when very casual, he uses them in few seconds after saying a funny dialogue. And that's why the imgur links were linked so you can deduce it yourself.

I don't think you understand, the moves I asked about aren't in said links. Linking me examples of completely different moves doesn't answer my question for when he uses and how often he leads with TK (in the style of Tatsumaki or Mewtwo, like fully engulfed opponent type TK) or the energy cage he used on Vilgax. A net, a lackluster forcefield and hoverboarding, etc aren't what I'm asking to see.

Ben doesn't treat vilgax differently. Despite being a greater threat ,Ben fights and treats him like his usual day to day Alien enemies. It's Ben's character ,doesn't matter if Vilgax is a bigger threat to the audience.

Ok so that's 1 time he's lead with it.

 

[Chariot190]

Not problematic in the slightest that's a bold claim, I'd like to see scans of this version of Superman facing someone Class P LS who does the same that SR does. He is someone who is completely unpredictable.

They aren't, a net he has to fly into or can just dodge or a energy current that moves across a ground he can just fly out of, dodge, see coming or leap out of that he needs to be on the ground for are completely and utterly useless here.

They aren't problematic because they'll never hit. And hoverboarding ain't even relevant, like, I wanna see him do what he did to make it a hoverboard, to an enemy, not sheet metal.

Due to the amount of variatians he has with his abilities he randomly uses TK someone on object and sometimes on Enemies such as vilgax.

His TK is used

I'm thinking that might be a no then. TK being used in non-conventional ways isn't the same as using it in combat in order to incap.

1. He used TK Energy cage to seal shut as opening move as Shock Rock
2. He used Energy nets as opening move to caputre Kevin's XLR8

Not commenting on Diamondhead because he's a different alien with a different power set and how he uses them don't at all translate to each other.
The energy net I see, but it's also not that helpful against someone who ain't getting hit by it unless it's in cqc (I'd say outrange too but for some reason he doesn't have any of his space distance feats listed...).
The first one, are you talking about Vilgax? If so that's fair but once out of numerous fights I'd assume doesn't imply it's a consistent lead. A possibility, but doing something once ain't a good implication.


Let me blunt here, I want to see Shockrock leading with, or using, a non-contact, presumably gesture or thought based long range tk move that completely restricts enemy movement (so think generic psychic stuff) or that Vilgax move. These are the problematic moves that Supes only has one or two ways to circumvent, the other examples shown aren't useful here and can easily just lead into Supes haxing back.

 

[DemonicDude]

(in the style of Tatsumaki or Mewtwo,

He does not use it in the style of Tatsumaki or Mewtwo to spin land rocks around, or lifting entire cities up in the sky he is not a telekintic alien. He just happens to have TK as part of his long list of abilities.
He uses it situationally in combat or in his surrioundings to utilize it in the best way he can. He is an energy alien with TK as part of his ability.
Energy Cage uses the same principal as Energy net/forcefield and that is something which he uses almost VERY often
You can not make the argument of it NOT being the same exact cage shape and size so it doesn't count. Ben thinking outside the box to restrict enemies in forcefield we have never seen in the classic and he does that quite often, Since entire gimmick of Shock Rock is making forceshields. I have an entire comiplation of him using barriers and since it's TK based barrier it will count. I have entire compliation of him using Forcefields left and right as it's his main gimmick (Link). Those Diamondhead move I mentioned as special moves being used as either an opening move or under 30 seconds in no way shape or form one can say he isn't gonna do the same with his barriers like he's been using his special moves left and right on even the most minor things

 

[DemonicDude]

They aren't, a net he has to fly into or can just dodge or a energy current that moves across a ground he can just fly out of, dodge, see coming or leap out of that he needs to be on the ground for are completely and utterly useless here.

And SR can do the same via Jetpack. So they both mirror each other out with SR having more techniques

They aren't problematic because they'll never hit. And hoverboarding ain't even relevant, like, I wanna see him do what he did to make it a hoverboard, to an enemy, not sheet metal.

Nobody is hoverbody and hoverboard is NOT even part of this debate it's him SHOWING that despite him not being a main TK alien he is thinking outside of the box and utilizing his TK when he DOESN'T NEED to he could've defeated that robot by Energy Spear and Hammer comobo in the heart but didn't, Meaning he DOES uses TK and nothing stops him from using it.

Not commenting on Diamondhead because he's a different alien with a different power set

Using THE SAME restriction prinpal you NOT commenting on it and saying this ain't it cheif is dirspectful to me and my character. Since the user of my charcter is Ben tennyson and he is the one using creative attacks on minor objects and you NOT seeing them the same even tho
First_Witch user said "They are practically the same" in terms of sealing someone shut both restriction techniques are used by Ben as SR and DH shows he USES those to stop an enemy or any one thread link

Let me blunt here, I want to see Shockrock leading with, or using, a non-contact,

He doesn't need to use it as an opening move to win, He has enough layered Durability+Ressitance+Spaceflight+Boost+Supernatural willpower to aboid getting hit and escape into outerspace and can use it preferally in 30-50 seconds since Ben is creative with his moves. With that being said I have given all evidences and scans and if that' not enough then I'll go with my deadly move BFR

Supes is really smart then wouldn't he try to strike at the heart of such weird energy creature to finish it. (Or at least see what's gonna happen.)
If you hit Omnitrix in the middle with energy ray This happens:

• Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel (He can be teleported inside the Omnitrix by using a tapping shortcut)
• 
  
• Time Travel (if Omnitrix gets directly hit in the middle results in a time travel portal.)

He can seal him Shut inside the Omnitrix or send her back in time. OMNITRIX is Low 5-B. And before someone say chance of that happening is highly unlikely YES that is true BUT.... He learned to do this from Azmuth omnitrix creator via Shortcut and succefully uses it by Tapping the watch (Using it as his secret code)

 

[Chariot190]

He does not use it in the style of Tatsumaki or Mewtwo to spin land rocks around, or lifting entire cities up in the sky he is not a telekintic alien. He just happens to have TK as part of his long list of abilities.

I'm talking about actively using it on the enemy, to restrict them, otherwise who cares about his LS with it, it's useless.

He uses it situationally in combat or in his surrioundings to utilize it in the best way he can. He is an energy alien with TK as part of his ability.

My dude, I just wanna see him actually using it properly. His TK is damn well the only thing that's super dangerous here, it's bordering on instant win, but if he doesn't use it to telekinetically restrict his foe, like a psychic, his LS with it ain't helping.

Energy Cage uses the same principal as Energy net/forcefield and that is something which he uses almost VERY often

So? Yeah no shit they use the same power source, nobody is saying otherwise. But do you think because he uses his main power all the time, he'll use it in this specific way he did once (or never) in an actual fight? That isn't how it works, he's either done it, and does it often enough to where we can reliably say he will do so here, or he doesn't and stop arguing for it.

You can not make the argument of it NOT being the same exact cage shape and size so it doesn't count.

I literally can brother, let's say hypothetically Ben uses the move he used on the deer instead of what he did against Vilgax.
Bam, Superman knows he can do shit like that now, it didn't hinder him at all, and now he can play around it and retaliate back with AOE hax and just win negdiff.

You keep saying he uses his powers, without accounting for HOW he uses them matters greatly and effects the outcome of the match.

Since entire gimmick of Shock Rock is making forceshields. I have an entire comiplation of him using barriers and since it's TK based barrier it will count. I have entire compliation of him using Forcefields left and right as it's his main gimmick (Link).

Bruh wtf, saying "he makes forcefields with TK so he'll telekinetically engulf and Immobilize his foe" isn't going to cut it, ever, in any argument.
This is low-key saying "Stands can phase and have done so in combat, so they will phase into a foe's chest and crush their heart"-esque energy.

We use what we see them do, different application of the same power doesn't mean apply it differently here just because. If he's done so, actually show it.

I am, in fact, saying that what he does as Diamondhead doesn't matter in the same way what he does as any other alien doesn't matter. What matters is how he used this one, if he's done so, show some good examples, otherwise I'm going to have to handwave this argument completely and just go with what we see him usually do.

As for your forcefield link, those ain't what I'm asking for either, and aren't really helpful either (Supes is at least 6ish times stronger than them, and gas smashed through forcefields before, don't see any reason he can't here).
Superman can escape a forcefield through multiple means (even though in that clips he uses it for protection, not incapacitation), but he can't really escape what Vilgax had.

 

[DemonicDude]

I am in the middle of a personal life work and want to again apologize if I'm offending anyone here this has been going in circles and I'M YET to see any proper wincon for superman that rivals Ben and his omnitrix I'll be avaibale soon I need to go to work, much love.

 

[Chariot190]

And SR can do the same via Jetpack. So they both mirror each other out with SR having more techniques

Then show him doing that.

Nobody is hoverbody and hoverboard is NOT even part of this debate it's him SHOWING that despite him not being a main TK alien he is thinking outside of the box and utilizing his TK when he DOESN'T NEED to he could've defeated that robot by

Then don't post it. It's a waste of time, show me TK on a enemy, not tk on a random object.

Energy Spear and Hammer comobo in the heart but didn't, Meaning he DOES uses TK and nothing stops him from using it.

He could've, but didn't. I just want to see him using TK to incap, the fact you've yet to do so tells me he doesn't.

Using THE SAME restriction prinpal you NOT commenting on it and saying this ain't it cheif is dirspectful to me and my character.

Different move, one that wouldn't work here. Principal doesn't matter (even though the moves aren't even equitable), I need to see him actually use shit that works, not things that would result in his loss.
And it ain't it chief, that isn't disrespectful, it's me saying what you're showcasing as evidence isn't good enough, unrelated, non-sequitor-esque redundancy.
It's not important for the match, and isn't helpful not what I asked to see or evidence towards it.

He doesn't need to use it as an opening move to win, He has enough layered Durability+Ressitance+Spaceflight+Boost+Supernatural willpower to aboid getting hit and escape into outerspace and can use it preferally in 30-50 seconds since Ben is creative with his moves. With that being said I have given all evidences and scans and if that' not enough then I'll go with my deadly move BFR

Dude, Superman can BREATHE on him and win, he needs to use this shit fast before supes thinks of using one of his own winconditions.

Escaping to space is useless, given Supes can too.

He has resistance to heat vision, that's it.

Willpower doesn't help because flash frozen.

Supes is really smart then wouldn't he try to strike at the heart of such weird energy creature to finish it. (Or at least see what's gonna happen.)
If you hit Omnitrix in the middle with energy ray This happens:

Because he's superman? He won't kill, idk why you're even suggesting that. Also, supes doesn't start with high end heat vision, he'd do a test shot if anything and learn he has energy manip and just wouldn't from that point on.
He would know his biology tho due to x-ray vision, but that'd be more to understand how he functions and incap points, not kill points.

 

[Chariot190]

I am in the middle of a personal life work and want to again apologize if I'm offending anyone here this has been going in circles and I'M YET to see any proper wincon for superman that rivals Ben and his omnitrix I'll be avaibale soon I need to go to work, much love.

Literally breathes on him and flash freezes him, something that's quicker than a gesture and shock has no resistance toward. Something supes is entirely willing to uset, especially if he learns punching to incap won't work (as in, it'd be his guaranteed next option no matter). Something he could probably figure out at a glance mind you given x-ray vision to check his biology.

 

[DemonicDude]

How fast does Superman when a fight start uses breath ? How many times he has used it as an opening move ?

 

[Aachintya31]

How fast does Superman when a fight start uses breath ? How many times he has used it as an opening move ?

LMFAO

 

[DemonicDude]

Because he's superman? He won't kill, idk why you're even suggesting that.

So he won't target a shiny device that looks like an off switch button (And ignore a potential alien tech) and not even try to see what's gonna happen ? That Ben can use to shove him in the Time portal.

 

[Chariot190]

How fast does Superman when a fight start uses breath ? How many times he has used it as an opening move ?

Idk like a few dozen times at least?
On both fronts?

Though, I will say, X-Ray Vision into literally just blowing on him funny would work fine, basically tantamount to prior knowledge, and he's used it enough I'm confident in saying he'd whip it out fast when other options aren't optimal, like against Clayface iirc, he froze him due to his biology.
This is also why I'm asking specifically for psychic type TK or the cage thing Vilgax was in, because shit like a net or the deer field won't stop supes from breathing on him, all it'd do is force him to use it due to lack of other retaliation options

I also wanna point out Supes Lowkey face tanks most of shocks attacks, an attack 5.6x stronger didn't even draw blood, not even a bloody lip and was fine as soon as the force of which stopped launching him millions of km.

So he won't target a shiny device that looks like an off switch button (And ignore a potential alien tech) and not even try to see what's gonna happen ? That Ben can use to shove him in the Time portal.

Probably not no, he might x-ray it to check and if he doesn't understand it, would likely be exceptionally cautious given how often ******* with shit he doesn't understand gets him shit between Lex Luther, Brainiac, other aliens and even Batman telling him to **** off a few times (like in the meme clip where they're ******* with magic artifacts and batman goes off on them).

Like for all he knows it could be something critical to biological functions like an alien pacemaker, or a bomb. He has other safer options to use to incapacitate so he'd just use those (unless this is Justice Lord superman, that mf has no chill).

 

[DemonicDude]

Idk like a few dozen times at least?
On both fronts?

That does not answer my question, Has a figtht ever started and he uses it as first move ?

Though, I will say, X-Ray Vision into literally just blowing on him funny would work fine, basically tantamount to prior knowledge, and he's used it enough I'm confident in saying he'd whip it out fast when other options aren't optimal, like against Clayface iirc, he froze him due to his biology.
This is also why I'm asking specifically for psychic type TK or the cage thing Vilgax was in, because shit like a net or the deer field won't stop supes from breathing on him, all it'd do is force him to use it due to lack of other retaliation options

Psyhic Type Cage was taught to use him by his species leader I don't have scans of him using it on every single alien due to Ben transforming into various forms and using their tyle of restriction to capture them (Which is why I'm using their example TO SEE often creative Ben goes and whether he's willing to do such as thing again or not, Since SR is one of his most utilized aliens each time something new)

I also wanna point out Supes Lowkey face tanks most of shocks attacks, an attack 5.6x stronger didn't even draw blood, not even a bloody lip and was fine as soon as the force of which stopped launching him millions of km.

SR is higher via Absoption amps

Probably not no, he might x-ray it to check and if he doesn't understand it, would likely be exceptionally cautious given how often ******* with shit he doesn't understand gets him shit between Lex Luther, Brainiac, other aliens and even Batman telling him to **** off a few times.

I find it hard to belive he'll understand biology of a being, If this was a normal alien then fine but being made of special Omnitrix Energy I guess he could try.

Like for all he knows it could be something critical to biological functions like an alien pacemaker, or a bomb. He has other safer options to use to incapacitate so he'd just use those (unless this is Justice Lord superman, that mf has no chill).

Omnitrix has self defense mechinsm. Omnitrix can NOT be hacked. Shooting Energy beams at the watch or trying to hurt it will not only result his Time travel portal but he could mess up Superman biology

• Transformed everyone in Washington D.C into Ben's aliens. (Biology manip)
• Defended Ben Tennyson from an Ectonurite/Posession along with Dimesnional travel ability that possesess

Supes touching the watch in any way is a MAJOR threat as it can backfire to him in the area. Unless fight starts he in 1 second spam his breath and finishes it.
if not in Omni Naut form SR using his Lifitng Strength to pull enemies via Energy Rope after which multiple things can happen
1- Supes get's energy chainsaws
2- Get's locked in an energy forcefield and he breaks it, SR realizes he is the real deal much like the Weatherheads (Yes they are bigger enemy than vilgax) and goes for Bluermang distraction + Energy Energy as his third move
3- Super manges to dodge both ends up hitting the watch and it BFR's him

I am NOT going to argue more as I have provided several Wincons of SR via Time travel, Energy Cage (based off of creativity or my character and how often he is likely to use it) and Superior LS
and in return I have NOT gotten a clip of Superman using Ice breath as opening move. If were via Jetpack if can be dodged (Omni Naut flight speed >>>>> Base XLR8).

 

[Aachintya31]

I don't think you understand, the moves I asked about aren't in said links. Linking me examples of completely different moves doesn't answer my question for when he uses and how often he leads with TK (in the style of Tatsumaki or Mewtwo, like fully engulfed opponent type TK) or the energy cage he used on Vilgax. A net, a lackluster forcefield and hoverboarding, etc aren't what I'm asking to see.

Bro....It just shows his versatality with those Trapping moves that it isn't restricted by one particular shape or one particular way. Ain't no way those moves are different. The purpose is same (trapping someone), the way of doing it is same (energy construct) .

They aren't, a net he has to fly into or can just dodge or a energy current that moves across a ground he can just fly out of, dodge, see coming or leap out of that he needs to be on the ground for are completely and utterly useless here.

It's completely situation based. Ben will go for the best move among the same set since the SBA is to WIN by killing or incap

Not commenting on Diamondhead because he's a different alien with a different power set and how he uses them don't at all translate to each other.

They do translate to each other , the user performing those are same i.e Ben

I'm talking about actively using it on the enemy, to restrict them, otherwise who cares about his LS with it, it's useless.

How do you deal with characters who doesn't the same moves in their particular verse as their leading moves. Its pointless to say he doesn't use it actively in every fight in the show so he won't here also

My dude, I just wanna see him actually using it properly. His TK is damn well the only thing that's super dangerous here, it's bordering on instant win, but if he doesn't use it to telekinetically restrict his foe, like a psychic, his LS with it ain't helping.

It's a big claim to say Telekinesis isn't telekinetically restricting his foe so his LS is useless.

I literally can brother, let's say hypothetically Ben uses the move he used on the deer instead of what he did against Vilgax.

That just shows how skilled ben is .He knows his stuff and choosing the best trapping construct to cage the opponent.

Bam, Superman knows he can do shit like that now, it didn't hinder him at all, and now he can play around it and retaliate back with AOE hax and just win negdiff.

which AOE hax you referring to ?

Superman can escape a forcefield through multiple means (even though in that clips he uses it for protection, not incapacitation), but he can't really escape what Vilgax had

Bruh they are made of the exactly same component. How can he superman escape one but not the other

He would know his biology tho due to x-ray vision, but that'd be more to understand how he functions and incap points, not kill points.

X-ray vision is an ability to see through objects not tell how the biology of an alien unless stated specifically. Also all the visions link to the Enhanced senses page which obviously doesn't tell any information regarding biology and its working.

Literally breathes on him and flash freezes him, something that's quicker than a gesture and shock has no resistance toward.
Idk like a few dozen times at least?
On both fronts?

Can you show some scans of him using flash freeze breadth few times. The profile lacks them

 

[Reiner04]

SR fra

 

[Reiner04]

He lead with it against Vilgax, fair, but it's also Vilgax, even I know that's a special case

How many times does Sups open up with a ice manp? As far as I can tell, he open up with a normal brute force or punch, etc. Considering that speed is equalised, SR would very likely be dodging it but seeing him being far superior in strength, SR wouldn't rely on strength but rather hax, being 5 to 6 times stronger opponent is enough for him to use abilities he can to win fast, he is child but not dumb to not realize when plays time over. He will use the haxes he had used on stronger opponents.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Eh, from what I have seen I also have my doubts regarding SR IC usage of cage/TK incap.
On the other hand, why would freezing incap an energy being? Seems like something he would just melt out of.

 

[Reiner04]

Eh, from what I have seen I also have my doubts regarding SR IC usage of cage/TK incap.
On the other hand, why would freezing incap an energy being? Seems like something he would just melt out of.

Possibly because that energy being is inside the rock shell? Also that it may will provide sup enough time to beat him via AP?

@DemonicDude has SR ever left his rock shell? Or it's a kind of part of his body?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean, even inside the rock shell it should be able to send out energy to thaw out, no?
And doesn't the regeneration make beating it with AP... hard?

 

[Reiner04]

I mean, even inside the rock shell it should be able to send out energy to thaw out, no?
And doesn't the regeneration make beating it with AP... hard?

Well it does but 5 to 6 times AP difference seems large enough to cause him sever harm... Will he be able to regenerate fast enough while keep on facing hits from sup? That's ofc as well depends on how good is his regeneration regretting not watching the reboot.

 

[DemonicDude]

Possibly because that energy being is inside the rock shell? Also that it may will provide sup enough time to beat him via AP?

@DemonicDude has SR ever left his rock shell? Or it's a kind of part of his body?

Yes. There was one instance of him teleporting and leaving him shell behind

 

[Reiner04]

Yes. There was one instance of him teleporting and leaving him shell behind

Wait... He can teleport?

 

[DemonicDude]

Wait... He can teleport?

Using Omnitrix tapping short cut. Ben can Dimesional Travel, BFR, Time travel etc.

If you hit Omnitrix in the middle with energy ray This happens:

• Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel (He can be teleported inside the Omnitrix by using a tapping shortcut)
• 
  
• Time Travel (if Omnitrix gets directly hit in the middle results in a time travel portal.)

He can seal him Shut inside the Omnitrix or send her back in time. OMNITRIX is Low 5-B. And before someone say chance of that happening is highly unlikely YES that is true BUT.... He learned to do this from Azmuth omnitrix creator via Shortcut and succefully uses it by Tapping the watch (Using it as his secret code)

 

[Reiner04]

Using Omnitrix tapping short cut. Ben can Dimesional Travel, BFR, Time travel etc.

Sup not having a prior knowledge can cause all this so Hmmm, useful ig. If shell is not the main body then ig it also reduces other disadvan... No, he has never been seen to move outside of his shell, so we cannot say for sure for what reasons it's there, possibly he cannot move w/o his shell? Well taking into account everything there is still high chances for SR to take a win. I don't personally see anything to say sup will use flash freeze with little to no reason outside of his character, given that there is barely any evidence provided for him. My vote for SR stays remain.

 

[Reiner04]

Also,

how good is his regeneration?

 

[DemonicDude]

Also,

Not much instances. never been pushed to that limit due to being a powerhouse but can regrow his hands in combat and armor shell both can be regened. You need to completely disperse the energy itself to get rid of him.

 

[Aachintya31]

Idk like a few dozen times at least?

i could be wrong. After searching for an hour I couldn't find any scan for this version to have freeze breadth in the first place albeit using them dozen times .

 

[Reiner04]

Since humans in ben 10 has been wanked to Tier 7, someone should make a versus match with him facing deku or someone.

Ben Tennyson (Original)

It's Hero Time!Ben's catchphrase Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson was an ordinary 10-year old boy who looked forward to spending his summer vacation goofing off and playing video games. But his Grandpa Max had different ideas, taking Ben and his cousin Gwen out on a national road trip to see the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DemonicDude]

Since humans in ben 10 has been wanked to Tier 7, someone should make a versus match with him facing deku or someone.

Ben Tennyson (Original)

It's Hero Time!Ben's catchphrase Benjamin "Ben" Kirby Tennyson was an ordinary 10-year old boy who looked forward to spending his summer vacation goofing off and playing video games. But his Grandpa Max had different ideas, taking Ben and his cousin Gwen out on a national road trip to see the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

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