Tier 5-C The Sky Apocalypse Tournament (2023): Superman vs Shock Rock

[Reiner04]

Because it's not really hax, energy manip is energy manip, doesn't mean they're all built the same, it's just a generic term we use for energy-like stuff, from ki, beam guns, chaos energy, whatever. Energy by wiki standards doesn't need to be some atomless, intangible, construct, and in this case it's blatantly not.

I don't get why ppl have resistance to electrical, wind, energy manp when it's not a hax.
Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant.

For example, let's say you have an 8-C forcefield, attacked by an 8-A. They're different tiers, so would you say the 8-A could get through? Probably right?
Ok now let's say we have two 9-B's, a 9-B forcefield and a 9-B attacker, they're the same tier, so you'd say they couldn't get through right? But wait, the difference between the two 9-'b's is 50,000x, even larger than the difference between the 8-C and 8-A.

So you wanna say even in the same tier haxes aren't of any use since AP stomp should be given priority? And each character should be given resistance to energy Manp if they have high AP?

But that doesn't mean that applies for every ability, do you think a 3-A can't punch and disperse some 7-C water dude because "he cant interact with it lmao".

We take next tiers as Stomp, we follow different procedure for successive tiers to grant a fair match. We don't assume stomp within same tier tho, as in the same tier number of hax and other things are assumed to factor the flipped coin result.

Posted by demonic themselves, we can even see ripple effects as a consequence of touching the field, meaning his actions can interact with and have effects on the substance in question

My eye sight seems weaker than yours as I can't see him interacting with energy cage at all.

 

[DemonicDude]

By the way Shock Rock was able to withstand the "Perfect storm attack" which is Ice attack launched by Weather robots at him and him having limited resistance to ICE is accepted. (scan)

 

[Reiner04]

Humungasaour, malware and many other characters has no resistance to electrical attacks at all and energy attacks just sends him to oblivion despite his sheer strength and durability. Ppl do really be needing resistance or manp to these kinds of attacks.

 

[Reiner04]

Is it though? Reiner is saying you need energy manip or NPI to interact with Shockrock

SR is not a pure energy, as I said before he is a biological being. So he can be touched w/o NPI.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't get why ppl have resistance to electrical, wind, energy manp when it's not a hax.

False equilavence, stop with this bullshit. You can have resistance to energy manip if that's what you're getting at it, doesn't mean it's required here.

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant.

And yet, in this case literally, anyone can **** with it.

So you wanna say even in the same tier haxes aren't of any use since AP stomp should be given priority

Talk about strawmanning lmao. No I'm saying AP blows basic ass energy forcefields out of the ******* water. Shockrock isn't special, his shit can be interacted with normally, anyone who's strong enough can blow his shit apart and break through them. AP supersedes lackluster hax in this instance, and arguing otherwise is nothing but a NLF in regards to their durability and capabilities.

We take next tiers as Stomp,

that isn't even true, we can have an 8-C+ fight a baseline High 8-C for example (not even a 2x difference), what matters is the actual difference, not the funny number at the top of the profile, btu you can be damn sure a 4-A who's like 1,000,000x above another 4-A is AP stomping his ass.

we follow different procedure for successive tiers to grant a fair match.

Except when we don't. And that's only loosely followed because generally, different tiers have big gaps in AP, a High end of one tier can fight a low end of another if close enough, but can also get AP stomped within the same tier.

We don't assume stomp within same tier tho,

Yes we do? ALL the time, where have you been? We've done that for years and years. It's always been a matter of AP difference, not tier, the difference is that of 7x, if the difference is 7x we consider that a one shot. Even if they're the same tier.

as in the same tier number of hax and other things are assumed to factor the flipped coin result.

??????????????????????

My eye sight seems weaker than yours as I can't see him interacting with energy cage at all.

That's a personal issue then, not my problem.

You don't need NPI to interact with Shock Rock and you don't need it for practically everyone in this tournament.

Cool, so explain why Reiner is saying you need funny meme abilities to interact with his energy at all, despite you saying that his attacks and body are made of the same shit.

 

[Chariot190]

Humungasaour, malware and many other characters has no resistance to electrical attacks at all and energy attacks just sends him to oblivion despite his sheer strength and durability. Ppl do really be needing resistance or manp to these kinds of attacks.

Superman has resistance to electrical attacks, and energy attacks in this case are just his AP and don't have any actual hax effects.
Demonic has also stated multiple times this dude is like a top tier.

 

[DemonicDude]

According to One Shot you need 7.5x for AP Stomp 5.56 is big AP gap NOT a stompish worthy for someone who has limited Ice resistance and supernatural willpower to back himself up and force his way to execute energy cage.

 

[Reiner04]

False equilavence, stop with this bullshit. You can have resistance to energy manip if that's what you're getting at it, doesn't mean it's required here.

Why it's not required here? You are telling me he will touch break the energy cage w/o energy manp or resistance to it.

And yet, in this case literally, anyone can **** with it.

Like who? Without being harmed? Even vilgax is just ******** in there despite being warlord. He could have freed himself if it's just like a random iron cage.

Yes we do? ALL the time, where have you been? We've done that for years and years. It's always been a matter of AP difference, not tier, the difference is that of 7x, if the difference is 7x we consider that a one shot. Even if they're the same tier.

It's not 7*

That's a personal issue then, not my problem.

Okay.

why Reiner is saying you need funny meme abilities to interact with his energy at all,

SR is not a pure energy, as I said before he is a biological being. So he can be touched w/o NPI

Sigh.

 

[DemonicDude]

Sigh.

It's called "Pure Omni Energy"

 

[Reiner04]

It's called "Pure Omni Energy"

Yeah, I know, they're made from pure omni energy.

 

[Chariot190]

Why it's not required here? You are telling me he will touch break the energy cage w/o energy manp or resistance to it.

That's ******* EXACTLY what I'm saying holy shit. His AP >>>>>>> Forcefield durability. This isn't complex.

Like who? Without being harmed? Even vilgax is just ******** in there despite being warlord. He could have been freed himself if it's just like a random iron cage.

If it's a matter of harm, why would Superman, someone who can endure pain far beyond what Shockrock can put out, care about pain? Superman could have his legs chopped off and he'd still try and fight you if the situation called for it.

Don't care what Vilgax did or did not do, I'm talking about what Supes will do, and he'd try and break free. I don't see how this is any different than Sinestro trapping Supes in a yellow energy bubble, he'd just break free.

SR is not a pure energy, as I said before he is a biological being. So he can be touched w/o NPI

I seen, I'm calling you out for making shit up to be blunt, your claims are going directly against Demonic's claims and the dude with the Rem avi.
They state the energy he uses to attack and himself are the exact same, they state anyone can interact with him, erg, anyone can interact with the forcefields and stuff. If not, why in the **** doesn't his profile say "also all his attacks secretly have invulnerability and cant be destroyed no matter what unless you have energy manip lol even if youre like a billion times stronger".

According to One Shot you need 7.5x for AP Stomp 5.56 is big AP gap NOT a stompish worthy for someone who has limited Ice resistance and supernatural willpower to back himself up and force his way to execute energy cage.

You missed the part where Superman upscales the shit off the feat, the 5.6 calc didn't even scratch him (in the same movie, he got gutted so like...). Superman can punch people comparable to himself so hard he breaks their noses, and then get punched back and be made to spit up blood. 5.6x is for a feat that did effectively nothing to him, meanwhile when he's actually trying that he can beat bloody and floor himself basically. Unless you think no damage is equal to a smashed in face, idk what to tell you.

The energy cage isn't listed to have higher durability on the profile, it gets smashed to bits.

 

[Reiner04]

Why reboot have so many secondary merchandise stuff while original, AF, UAF has nothing.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, I know, they're made from pure omni energy.

only exists in a single form

Now explain why you think omni-energy has the same properties as atomless or indestructible energy forms.

 

[Popted2]

Now explain why you think omni-energy has the same properties as atomless or indestructible energy forms.

Chariot please you can stop debating with them now, you have done your best when you don't even know enough of Superman and honestly you are one of the best debaters here

the match has already ended, you can rest now

 

[DemonicDude]

I have not even once stated Omni Energy is indestructible however I did give scan of it corrupting and mutating DNA and it can malfunction people who are trying to absorb or interact with it thus making it "harmful". Either way i have given all my arguments

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Making claims such as that: forcefields gives off indestructible dura OR has an NPI layer on it that requires X abilities to interact with it (energy manip, etc) needs solid evidence and not arbitrary information or pure headcanon. Just saying for whoever may have claimed as such in this thread.

 

[DemonicDude]

Making claims such as that: forcefields gives off indestructible dura OR has an NPI layer on it that requires X abilities to interact with it (energy manip, etc) needs solid evidence and not arbitrary information or pure headcanon. Just saying for whoever may have claimed as such in this thread.

These were not brought up by me in the start and are not focil point of this debate, Not every single people are knowledgable on all characters so for that I apologize.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

These were not brought up by me in the start and are not focil point of this debate, Not every single people are knowledgable on all characters so for that I apologize.

its fine.

 

[Chariot190]

Chariot please you can stop debating with them, you have done your best when you don't even know enough of Superman and honestly you are one of the best debaters here

the match has already ended, you can rest now

Nah man, it was fine awhile ago, but now I'm seeing shit that isn't even on the profiles. For people who gave me so much shit for not wanting to pirate a whole franchise to find a clip, I find it hypocritical that I keep seeing stuff that isn't stated, implied or even hinted at on the profile, let alone accepted, being mentioned and talked about.
This whole energy thing is the worst of it, we don't do that here, never did, and never will. Energy needs feats in order to be treated like that, without it, a forcefield is just a forcefield, anyone strong enough can break through it just fine unless the forcefield in question has extra established caveats to it, in this case, it does not and is just a generic lmao energy field thingy.
And now people are saying things that conflate and conflict with each other and aren't at all consistent in how these things work.
also i know enough about him to argue him, even if i dont have an encyclopedic knowledge of him or when and where everything happens, but i know enough to say what he can or cant do, give or take, it isnt like i havent watched the show and movies, it's just been a long while. Except JL, ive been doing that recently for Batman

I have not even once stated Omni Energy is indestructible however I did give scan of it corrupting and mutating DNA and it can malfunction people who are trying to absorb or interact with it thus making it "harmful". Either way i have given all my arguments

You aren't, Reiner is though, I believe everything you've posted, you've posted proof for all of it, I have no issues with your claims.
But what you're saying, and what he is saying directly contradict each other, one of you is wrong here, you can't both be right.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Chariot is the definition of TATAKAE