Tier 5-C The Sky Apocalypse Tournament (2023): Regenesis Shockwave vs Nightmare

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Iirc Nightmare does use Watch This quite a fair bit, opening of SC3, opening of SC5, his soul wave moves in SC6 and in 4 too iirc. He can also just soul hax on contact with his sword and take it bit by bit. Also idk if this helps but Nightmare is prolly gonna be looking at getting Inorganic Phys due to just being a suit of armour controlled by soul edge's will.

That's useful for other people I can think of but it wouldn't help him here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Shockwave could do something like drop some Ore-8 to drive Nightmare insane and to see illusions or drop Ore-6 to kill Nightmare with sheer cold, he could also GTFO with Ore-9 or Ore-1

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shockwave could do something like drop some Ore-8 to drive Nightmare insane and to see illusions or drop Ore-6 to kill Nightmare with sheer cold, he could also GTFO with Ore-9 or Ore-1

Nightmare is technically already insane due to being the Avatar of Astral Chaos which has Passive Madness Hax just like he does and is being controlled by Inferno, who is inside Astral Chaos so it would just passively bring him back to his normal mindset of 'feed on souls' and I don't think any illusion is stopping Nightmare from using Soul Wave, especially if he was already in the process of using it when Shockwave decided to drop some Ore-8. Ore-1, Ore-6 and Ore-9 are more fair bit does he ever lead with those, especially against something human sized like Nightmare?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nightmare is technically already insane due to being the Avatar of Astral Chaos which has Passive Madness Hax just like he does and is being controlled by Inferno, who is inside Astral Chaos so it would just passively bring him back to his normal mindset of 'feed on souls' and I don't think any illusion is stopping Nightmare from using Soul Wave, especially if he was already in the process of using it when Shockwave decided to drop some Ore-8. Ore-1, Ore-6 and Ore-9 are more fair bit does he ever lead with those, especially against something human sized like Nightmare?

Shockwave goes for initiating that tier 1 regenesis so turning a planet to ice with Ore-6 to fuel that is something he's actually done before, and I recall him using Ore-9 for moving himself a few times, but in general the Ores were used for Regenesis, so he's likely to just ice Earth/The Island they're on to fuel that and whatnot

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shockwave goes for initiating that tier 1 regenesis so turning a planet to ice with Ore-6 to fuel that is something he's actually done before, and I recall him using Ore-9 for moving himself a few times, but in general the Ores were used for Regenesis, so he's likely to just ice Earth/The Island they're on to fuel that and whatnot

And how fast does it take for Ore-6 to take effect? Remember, Nightmare literally only has to raise his sword up and Shockwave dies.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And how fast does it take for Ore-6 to take effect? Remember, Nightmare literally only has to raise his sword up and Shockwave dies.

If I recall no time frame was given precisely, but pretty damn fast considering the planet he iced was normal and then got ******

And Shockwave can still GTFO with Ore-9 and just come back like what's up hey hello and proceed to murder Nightmare in one way or another.

Or he ices the planet from where he goes, he's literally got the range to do so lol

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If I recall no time frame was given precisely, but pretty damn fast considering the planet he iced was normal and then got ******

And Shockwave can still GTFO with Ore-9 and just come back like what's up hey hello and proceed to murder Nightmare in one way or another.

Or he ices the planet from where he goes, he's literally got the range to do so lol

So Ore-6 sounds more like a win for Nightmare as it's timeframe is fast but vaguely so and Nightmare literally only needs a single moment to activate Soul Wave. Even if they fire it at the same time as each other, Inferno would still be alive and Shockwave wouldn't so that's a W for Nightmare.

How fast is Ore-9 again? That's his Higher Dimensional BFR, right? So that's a wincon for Shockwave but does he ever open with that on someone human sized?

Repeat of paragraph 1.

 

[DaReaperMan]

So Ore-6 sounds more like a win for Nightmare as it's timeframe is fast but vaguely so and Nightmare literally only needs a single moment to activate Soul Wave. Even if they fire it at the same time as each other, Inferno would still be alive and Shockwave wouldn't so that's a W for Nightmare.

How fast is Ore-9 again? That's his Higher Dimensional BFR, right? So that's a wincon for Shockwave but does he ever open with that on someone human sized?

Repeat of paragraph 1.

Shockwave wouldn't stay around for a big wave he knows nothing about, he fights smarter, not harder

Ore-9 is fast enough for a dude who's Massively FTL+ to get a few sentences out before being warped away(So might as well be instant), Shockwave can do this to himself as well

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shockwave wouldn't stay around for a big wave he knows nothing about, he fights smarter, not harder

Ore-9 is fast enough for a dude who's Massively FTL+ to get a few sentences out before being warped away(So might as well be instant), Shockwave can do this to himself as well

He wouldn't have the chance to escape it if it gets fired point blank.

Okay, but that literally tells me nothing in a speed equal match like this aside from it taking a second or two at most. Soul Wave is still a possible kill shot in this scenario.

 

[Arkenis]

Is NIghtmare fire manip not enough to make sure the area around him doesn't get iced? And i'm thinking how far could he teleport?

 

[DaReaperMan]

He wouldn't have the chance to escape it if it gets fired point blank.

Okay, but that literally tells me nothing in a speed equal match like this aside from it taking a second or two at most. Soul Wave is still a possible kill shot in this scenario.

If Nightmare tries shit at point-blank Shockwave will just shoot him and there's very little Nightmare could do about it that close. Or Shockwave would use Ore-2. Which is probably MUCH worse for Nightmare.

And... this is still a Massively FTL+ character talking so it'd be practically instant for all intents and purposes of this match

Is NIghtmare fire manip not enough to make sure the area around him doesn't get iced? And i'm thinking how far could he teleport?

That'd just get absorbed too mate

 

[Arkenis]

That'd just get absorbed too mate

If I recall no time frame was given precisely, but pretty damn fast considering the planet he iced was normal and then got ******

Was responding to this. Whats the absorption thing about?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Was responding to this. Whats the absorption thing about?

That IS Ore-6, it's absorbing heat and energy

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If Nightmare tries shit at point-blank Shockwave will just shoot him and there's very little Nightmare could do about it that close. Or Shockwave would use Ore-2. Which is probably MUCH worse for Nightmare.

Not if he teleported behind him after Shockwave attempts shooting him as I already outlined before and I don't even know what Ore-2 does as that's something newly added to the conversation.

And... this is still a Massively FTL+ character talking so it'd be practically instant for all intents and purposes of this match

But they have equal speed so Nightmare should be able to react to it, at least to some degree since it isn't instantaneous.

That'd just get absorbed too mate

Absorbed by what, the ice? I don't know anything about IDW Shockwave, you need to be more specific about what he can and can't do.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Not if he teleported behind him after Shockwave attempts shooting him as I already outlined before and I don't even know what Ore-2 does as that's something newly added to the conversation.

But they have equal speed so Nightmare should be able to react to it, at least to some degree since it isn't instantaneous.

Absorbed by what, the ice? I don't know anything about IDW Shockwave, you need to be more specific about what he can and can't do.

Ore-2 is literally AoE death hax(Shockwave just didn't use it very often), and why would Nightmare specifically teleport behind someone who can one-shot him? That seems like a really dumb thing to do for any smart fighter, and it's not just a movement, I recall it being literally "Watch this" and puts sword above his head and then wave comes, that's more then enough time for Shockwave to turn and shoot him

I honestly don't know how we treat shit like this lol, so we're at an impass

Like I said, that IS Ore-6.

Just read the Ores on Shockwave's profile under his Notable Attacks and Techniques

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah lol those ore's shouldve been explained.

But anyway, so the fire manip gets negged by Ore 6. But he doesn't do it right away?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah lol those ore's shouldve been explained.

But anyway, so the fire manip gets negged by Ore 6. But he doesn't do it right away?

I mean they all are on SShockwave's profile

Yeah it's unlikely for Shockwave to instantly ice the planet, but being threatened by an unknown wave is likely to get him to GTFO with Ore-9 and come back with Ore-6 and **** Nightmare's shit up

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ore-2 is literally AoE death hax(Shockwave just didn't use it very often), and why would Nightmare specifically teleport behind someone who can one-shot him? That seems like a really dumb thing to do for any smart fighter, and it's not just a movement, I recall it being literally "Watch this" and puts sword above his head and then wave comes, that's more then enough time for Shockwave to turn and shoot him

Does it work on beings like Nightmare? He's literally just a suit of armor being possessed by a demon remotely from another dimension so would it even effect him at all? He doesn't have to actually say the line, in fact I'm probably blanking but I don't remember him actually saying "Watch this!" in any of the cutscenes the move is used in. Besides, that would be stupid to give away his position to someone he knows can One-Shot him.

I honestly don't know how we treat shit like this lol, so we're at an impass

I'd just say it takes moment to activate but again, so does Soul Wave.

Like I said, that IS Ore-6.

I see, though I feel like he'd still end up getting Soul Wave before it would kill Nightmare fast enough.

 

[Arkenis]

lame. put the descriptions in the p&a section

Wait I haven't read everything you guys said, has Shockwave used ore 6 offensively when pressed?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

lame. put the descriptions in the p&a section

Wait I haven't read everything you guys said, has Shockwave used ore 6 offensively when pressed?

Good question.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Does it work on beings like Nightmare? He's literally just a suit of armor being possessed by a demon remotely from another dimension so would it even effect him at all? He doesn't have to actually say the line, in fact I'm probably blanking but I don't remember him actually saying "Watch this!" in any of the cutscenes the move is used in. Besides, that would be stupid to give away his position to someone he knows can One-Shot him.

I'd just say it takes moment to activate but again, so does Soul Wave.

I see, though I feel like he'd still end up getting Soul Wave before it would kill Nightmare fast enough.

If I recall he actually said it with the Soldier army lol

So it activates and gets Shockwave out of there since Shockwave doesn't have travel time

Good question.

Indeed.

Like I said before, Shockwave put the majority of the Ores towards Regenesis, which includes shit like Ore-6, 8, and 2, the only ones we actually see him using directly beyond the Regenesis plan are Ore-9 and Ore-1, cause he already used the others that have decent descriptions

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If I recall he actually said it with the Soldier army lol

So it activates and gets Shockwave out of there since Shockwave doesn't have travel time

I still don't think he'd be stupid enough to do it here though as again, he's very aware that Shockwave can One-Shot him.

Point Blank range activation from a direction he isn't even looking in will guarantee a kill. Nightmare is definitely smart enough to think of this as he's actually quite intelligent.

Indeed.

Like I said before, Shockwave put the majority of the Ores towards Regenesis, which includes shit like Ore-6, 8, and 2, the only ones we actually see him using directly beyond the Regenesis plan are Ore-9 and Ore-1, cause he already used the others that have decent descriptions

So we have no proof that he'd actually use those in combat like that then. Good to know.

 

[Arkenis]

And i'm thinking how far could he teleport?

Nightmares teleport range?

Good to know.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I still don't think he'd be stupid enough to do it here though as again, he's very aware that Shockwave can One-Shot him.

Point Blank range activation from a direction he isn't even looking in will guarantee a kill. Nightmare is definitely smart enough to think of this as he's actually quite intelligent.

So we have no proof that he'd actually use those in combat like that then. Good to know.

Shockwave can easily activate Ore-9 to just leave just as fast if not faster then the Soul Wave, especially since Nightmare still needs to act on his analysis

I mean hey, in literally every serious fight Nightmare hasn't used the Soul Wave either, which is why anything said about using Ores beyond 1 and 9 in-combat is purely hypothetical.

Of course there's the alternative wincon for Shockwave of him just waiting out until Regenesis destroys Nightmare and the Astral Chaos and camping with Ore-9 lol

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Nightmares teleport range?

Inferno has shown the ability to teleport about two or three times his own height in distance on-screen I'm his boss fight but it's probably even more than that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Inferno has shown the ability to teleport about two or three times his own height in distance on-screen I'm his boss fight but it's probably even more than that.

Then Nightmare definitely ain't clearing this kinda gap without Shockwave doing him in the old fashioned way... brutally!

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shockwave can easily activate Ore-9 to just leave just as fast if not faster then the Soul Wave, especially since Nightmare still needs to act on his analysis

There's no way Shockwave would start with Self-BFR if Nightmare takes a moment to think of a plan, he'd more than likely just try to shoot him, miss and get Soul Wave'd.

I mean hey, in literally every serious fight Nightmare hasn't used the Soul Wave either, which is why anything said about using Ores beyond 1 and 9 in-combat is purely hypothetical.

He has no reason to use Soul Wave in any of his serious fights as the ability literally doesn't effect his opponent at all, which he is very aware of.

Of course there's the alternative wincon for Shockwave of him just waiting out until Regenesis destroys Nightmare and the Astral Chaos and camping with Ore-9 lol

Why would he even attempt this against someone human sized? How would he even know about Astral Chaos before Nightmare gets defeated and BFR's him there?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Then Nightmare definitely ain't clearing this kinda gap without Shockwave doing him in the old fashioned way... brutally!

How big are Shockwave's gunshots? Do they have AOE Explosion bigger than that range? I heard quite awhile back that Nightmare has the ability to teleport between countries to get around faster but I don't remember where they got that from, I just remember how far Inferno can teleport in his fight.

 

[Arkenis]

I know they both don't do they're kill shot abilities liberally, but still one seems more combat applicable (soul wave) versus Ore 6 which from how it sounds doesn't seem to be a combat hax and more as just an all around energy absorber type of hax and also to effect an entire world. I think Soul wave comes out before ore 6.

But onto other ores

Like I said before, Shockwave put the majority of the Ores towards Regenesis, which includes shit like Ore-6, 8, and 2, the only ones we actually see him using directly beyond the Regenesis plan are Ore-9 and Ore-1, cause he already used the others that have decent descriptions

Ore 9 and ore 1.

Does ore 1 get used offensively? Is it like if he gets pushed back he'll accel time to get speed amp or throw you to a diff point in time? And ore 9... well we already talked about it lol, if he uses that right away then GG but if not then Soul wave comes out before it too.

 

[DaReaperMan]

There's no way Shockwave would start with Self-BFR if Nightmare takes a moment to think of a plan, he'd more than likely just try to shoot him, miss and get Soul Wave'd.

He has no reason to use Soul Wave in any of his serious fights as the ability literally doesn't effect his opponent at all, which he is very aware of.

Why would he even attempt this against someone human sized? How would he even know about Astral Chaos before Nightmare gets defeated and BFR's him there?

I mean, yeah, he wouldn't, but it ain't like it's BFR if Nightmare is getting nuked because Shockwave sees the best win as what he's trying to do in the first place

Yeah. Exactly.

Becuase it's literally Shockwave's end goal in IDW? He wants to turn the ******* multiverse into an infinite battery for Cybertron, if that's the best wincon, he's going to camp out Nightmare

How big are Shockwave's gunshots? Do they have AOE Explosion bigger than that range? I heard quite awhile back that Nightmare has the ability to teleport between countries to get around faster but I don't remember where they got that from, I just remember how far Inferno can teleport in his fight.

Pretty ******* big. And theres also a kabloowey

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mean, yeah, he wouldn't, but it ain't like it's BFR if Nightmare is getting nuked because Shockwave sees the best win as what he's trying to do in the first place

Then he gets Soul Wave'd.

Yeah. Exactly.

I don't see your point in saying this as Nightmare knew his enemies had the resistance where as he would try it on Shockwave since he knows nothing about him other than his power level.

Becuase it's literally Shockwave's end goal in IDW? He wants to turn the ******* multiverse into an infinite battery for Cybertron, if that's the best wincon, he's going to camp out Nightmare

That's such a ******* lame strategy in a fight that Shockwave should get banned outright from the tournament if he just decides to camp from another dimension like a little bitch.

Pretty ******* big. And theres also a kabloowey

That is big though I'm absolutely certain Nightmare could avoid a blast like that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I know they both don't do they're kill shot abilities liberally, but still one seems more combat applicable (soul wave) versus Ore 6 which from how it sounds doesn't seem to be a combat hax and more as just an all around energy absorber type of hax and also to effect an entire world. I think Soul wave comes out before ore 6.

But onto other ores

Ore 9 and ore 1.

Does ore 1 get used offensively? Is it like if he gets pushed back he'll accel time to get speed amp or throw you to a diff point in time? And ore 9... well we already talked about it lol, if he uses that right away then GG but if not then Soul wave comes out before it too.

I mean as I see it both of their one-shot wincons are either not really used on equal or stronger opponents(Nightmare or they didn't have it to USE on opponents(Shockwave)

I don't recall Shockwave doing so? He used it on himself to the dawn of the primes WAAAAAAAY back on cybertron when he was being beaten, Ore-1 was the main crux of Regenesis if I'm not wrong so it'd make sense if Shockwave didn't want to use it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mean as I see it both of their one-shot wincons are either not really used on equal or stronger opponents(Nightmare)

BECAUSE HE KNEW IT WOULDN'T WORK ON THEM SINCE HE KNOWS THEY HAVE RESISTANCES AGAINST IT! I SAID THIS LIKE FOUR TIMES! He's definitely throwing it at Shockwave here.

I don't recall Shockwave doing so? He used it on himself to the dawn of the primes WAAAAAAAY back on cybertron when he was being beaten, Ore-1 was the main crux of Regenesis if I'm not wrong so it'd make sense if Shockwave didn't want to use it.

So it's more than likely not getting pulled out then.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then he gets Soul Wave'd.

I don't see your point in saying this as Nightmare knew his enemies had the resistance where as he would try it on Shockwave since he knows nothing about him other than his power level.

That's such a ******* lame strategy in a fight that Shockwave should get banned outright from the tournament if he just decides to camp from another dimension like a little bitch.

That is big though I'm absolutely certain Nightmare could avoid a blast like that.

And Shockwave is much stronger, why would he assume Shockwave doesn't resist it too?

I mean it IS what Shockwave's end goal was, and he camped on a section of the universe he picked, he just didn't leave again when he got found... I think. My memories of the Regenesis arc are fuzzy admittedly

When he's trying to teleport he can't lol

BECAUSE HE KNEW IT WOULDN'T WORK ON THEM SINCE HE KNOWS THEY HAVE RESISTANCES AGAINST IT! I SAID THIS LIKE FOUR TIMES! He's definitely throwing it at Shockwave here.

So it's more than likely not getting pulled out then.

See above

Not outside of BFRing himself to the dawn of the primes if Nightmare somehow gets him that low probably not lol

 

[Arkenis]

So Nightmare will use it on people without resistance? He can sense how powerful Shockwave is, why wouldn't he try his greatest hax then? Feel like Nightmares got this. NIghtmare FRA.

Almost every Ore Shockwave has he generally doesn't use it in character or would only use it if he's getting absolutely pushed to hell.

 

[DaReaperMan]

So Nightmare will use it on people without resistance? He can sense how powerful Shockwave is, why wouldn't he try his greatest hax then? Feel like Nightmares got this. NIghtmare FRA.

Almost every Ore Shockwave has he generally doesn't use it in character or would only use it if he's getting absolutely pushed to hell.

Becuase he'd probably assume Shockwave would resist it since he is that much stronger

 

[Arkenis]

Becuase he'd probably assume Shockwave would resist it since he is that much stronger

When has he done that? From how Soul is explaining it, it seems Nightmare knew they resisted it and didn't use it, not they were stronger so he didn't try it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

And Shockwave is much stronger, why would he assume Shockwave doesn't resist it too?

Because the others resistances weren't tied to their raw power, it was tied to the fact that they either had Nightmare's powers or had Soul Calibur, both of which resist his shit.

I mean it IS what Shockwave's end goal was, and he camped on a section of the universe he picked, he just didn't leave again when he got found... I think. My memories of the Regenesis arc are fuzzy admittedly

Then how would you know this is absolutely his strategy for VS Debates?

When he's trying to teleport he can't lol

Again, I'm certain he can dodge it with either teleportation or just dodging normally or even a combination of both.

See above

Not outside of BFRing himself to the dawn of the primes if Nightmare somehow gets him that low probably not lol

So Soul Wave GG.

 

[DaReaperMan]

When has he done that? From how Soul is explaining it, it seems Nightmare knew they resisted it and didn't use it, not they were stronger so he didn't try it.

Because I haven't seen a time Nightmare hasn't done it against literal fodder yet? If everyone resists your attacks so you don't use it except on actual fodder, but you use it on said fodder, someone stronger is leagues out of that line. This is why, say, Vegeta dura negging Fodder is used in Versus Debates where he's fighting fodder in comparison to him despite literally never dura-negging non-fodder

Then how would you know this is absolutely his strategy for VS Debates?

Again, I'm certain he can dodge it with either teleportation or just dodging normally or even a combination of both.

So Soul Wave GG.

See above

Because he did so for Regenesis, he was practically just stalling with him and a big ass army seventy billion strong

Shockwave is Large Size 1, he's literally shooting a beam bigger in width then his arm, Nightmare ain't dodging like 5 or 10 of them while also having to teleport

So OOC GG

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Because I haven't seen a time Nightmare hasn't done it against literal fodder yet? If everyone resists your attacks so you don't use it except on actual fodder, but you use it on said fodder, someone stronger is leagues out of that line. This is why, say, Vegeta dura negging Fodder is used in Versus Debates where he's fighting fodder in comparison to him despite literally never dura-negging non-fodder

You literally just didn't see my explanation for why that is, did you? He literally can't use it on them as it wouldn't work due to them either having his powers, which he himself is immune to, or have Soul Calibur, which is also resistant to his bullshit.