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Thoughts on SSG Multiplier ?

Aercau

Aercau

56
3
Been browsing through the web, and now since the DBS series is over - what do you think is the SSG Multiplier ? I am not trying to envoke any " Keyboard-Flame-Wars " ... just wondering what others think.

I already have my answer for it, but ... well nothing is official ... but might not* ever be one tbh

Whatever answer you get, please provide some proof ?

Thanks in advance

Ssg
 
Why is BoG SSG Goku 3-A? Wasn't the shockwave thing a shared feat by him and Beerus? And it was after 3 punches iirc? How does that make him 3-A?
 
Lord Zeref Dragneel said:
Why is BoG SSG Goku 3-A? Wasn't the shockwave thing a shared feat by him and Beerus? And it was after 3 punches iirc? How does that make him 3-A?
Click to expand...
I think it was something about the area they were threatening to destroy being larger than our own observable universe.

Though in all honesty, I think 3-A SSG Goku is silly. Considering the specifics of the feat, it seemed like the universal destruction was happening over time, which would make it 3-B.
 
I think the low-ball is 2.2 times larger than the observable universe, since there's the Living World and the Other World, plus the Kaioshin World which is 1/5 of the other two worlds individually IIRC.
 
Hell if I know. But the way I remember it, it was more like one punch caused the shockwaves, the second punch strengthened them and it took another punch to cancel them out.
 
This site doesn't accept multipliers and honestly, the SSG multiplier isn't exactly quantifiable because we don't know if it's the same multiplier as a transformation as it was when the ritual brought him from highballed upper end Solar System+ to Universe level.

I'm sympathetic to the use of multipliers but honestly I wouldnt even recommend using one for SSJ3 to SSG. I'd just go straight to the SSB multiplier which, if you want to go by implications from the Kefla fight for example as well as uh it being called SSGSS, would be 50x. I wouldn't worry about the missing multiplier too much; just by using multipliers, you're already highballing and I maintain that the multiplier for the current SSG transformation cannot be determined to any reasonable degree of accuracy
 
No.

SSG has no multiplier. It's not a super saiyan transformation. It's godly ki which + saiyan physiology is 3-A. This is why Base Goku post BOG as a "godly saiyan" is 3-A.

Now why SSG is still a form after Goku became a godly saiyan is good old fashion bad exposition.
 
@Sera

It is bad exposition but not for the reasons you've outlined IMO. The existence of SSB implies that SSG should have been an available transformation from the get go. This is pretty easily explained by SSG in BoG being the result of a ritual. Essentially, Goku kept the power the ritual granted him even after the transformation itself expires.

SSG et al are still Super Saiyan transformations albeit not natural ones and even if they weren't, that doesn't imply that there is no multiplier.
 
According to Goku about becoming a Godly Saiyan.

"I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God and then I learned to tap into the power on my own".

SSG = Ritual. Controlling godly ki on his own = Godly Saiyan

According to Vegeta about Super Saiyan Blue

"We obtained a higher state of ki and became godlike saiyans and this (SSB) is the Super Saiyan version of that."

So how can SSG be a transformation if it was just the result of a ritual and utizing godly ki on your own makes you a godlike saiyan? Keep in mind in the anime Vegeta has no SSG form. He became a godly saiyan through ki control nornally, then went Super Saiyan using god ki and thus achieved Super Saiyan Blue.
 
The Universal Goku thing is explained like this...

A. They were going to destroy the universe with the shockwaves of their clash alone, in a quantifiable amount of time— 3 blows. Again, it was the Shockwaves that were going to destroy the Universe. Wave your hand like a fan, or clap next to your ear. Try to feel the air pressure from that. Now, recognize that, if you were between those clapped hands of yours, or you were touching your waving hand, you would be putting our far more force than just a breeze. If the shockwaves were gonna destroy the universe, how would their AP do against someone with 3-A durability?

B. The physics of the shockwaves aren't really a good topic, because you also can't... Cancel out shockwaves caused by two objects crashing by hitting them with equal force, I think. Even though that clash is what was causing the shockwaves in the first place... So if you're gonna nitpick that, we can nitpick all of fiction, because even swinging around a buster sword would be impossible without it dragging you around instead of you using it with no effort. Balance and such. Hell, they never do this universe shaking stuff again, so...

C. There's also that Kamehameha clash with Beerus that was going to destroy the universe too. So, even without the strikes, Goku is universal via Kamehameha. And he got stronger over the course of the fight.

D. The narrator said that they were hitting each other with power capable of destroying the universe over and over again. That's a whole statement.

Now for the OP.

Ummm... Which version? The initial boost, or the reuse of the form in the Tournament of power?
 
If you really want a classic multiplier that applies to PLs for SSG. Then all you have to note is that SSG Goku > theortical SSj3 Vegito (pre-god)

And daizenshuu said base vegito surpasses SSJ3. So if the SSJ3 multipler to you is either 400, or 4000. Just multiplies those numbers together and you got your lowball answer.

But in actuality, it doesn't have like a multiplier that's offical, the answer I gave is just one way to tackle the question.
 
The shockwaves were spreading out across the universe and getting stronger. We see shots of parts of the universe being destroyed, but AFAIK nothing suggests that the clash could destroy the universe immediately.

Add on the fact that it was a shared feat, and it seems that everything points towards SSG Goku being 3-B, even accounting for Universe 7 being larger than the observable universe. But hey, this is just what I believe.
 
Except no. The universe is literally 2x bigger. So you would split the feat in half. What even is your 3-B justification? You can't just eyeball it.

The Shockwaves getting stronger as they spread out is irrelevant. That's not really even how real shockwaves work, so saying that they got "stronger as they spread out" doesn't really mean anything, at least to me. The shared feat still makes it 1.1 universe, split down the middle evenly. And don't forget that those shockwaves are weaker than their actual punches. And the Kamehameha Beerus nullified was going to destroy the universe.

Also, Elder Kai literally said the next clash would reduce the universe to an empty void.
 
The fact that there were shockwaves spreading out across the universe in the first place already implies that Universe 7's destruction would have been gradual, especially when you consider the lack of a specified amount of time that said shockwaves would have taken to reach the edges of the universe.

I feel like if it were to be a truly universal feat, there'd be some sort of evidence that the entirety of Universe 7 was being affected at once, i.e. the destruction wasn't simply limited to the shockwaves.

Also, just because the shockwaves didn't work like they would in reality doesn't make them meaningless. I already got into an argument about applying real world stuff to fiction this morning, and I certainly don't want to be involved in another one.

In any case, this issue should be addressed outside of this thread.
 
KingPin0422 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
It was stated by Elder Kai, that the third punch would destroy the entirety of Universe 7, turning it into a void. The feat isn't gradual, it is basically instantaneous. Not to mention Goku continued to power up like 30 times after the shockwaves feat, and it was only their shockwaves causing the damage. Add on the million statements of the Universe being in danger of being destroyed in their climactic fight, and they are definitely Universal.
 
Why do y'all think that gradual destruction makes it not 3-A?

Speed is not an aspect of the standard Celestial explosion formula; surface area and GBE of the target destroyed matters.

Unless you're calcing it the way Sephiroth did his Supernova, speed is not needed (PS destroying all matter at near-SoL speeds at universal range is going to be higher into 3-A than baseline).
 
There was evidence the entire universe was being affected, the Shockwaves reached the other world-- which cannot be physically travelled to by normal means. The fact that it was affecting a place disconnected from the same space (not space time, that's another debate) but in the same Universe implied the destruction was more than just a phenomenon that affects a portion of the universe.

Also, remember, shaking a Universe is way different than shaking a Universe to the point of its Destruction. The last hit would have been the only thing that was necessary to destroy the entire universe. Not to mention the fact that the universe was fine after the first two shockwaves-- meaning the last one was the ONLY one that was gonna do the universe in for good.

And the KAMEHAMEHA clash is even more important. It's literally undeniable.
 
The utmost lowball for ssjgods multiplier would be 20,000 x base.

Base Vegito is stated to be>ssj3 Goku in Daiz but for lowball sake we will make them.equal.

Ssj makes him 59x stronger.

Ssjgod is stated to be way stronger than ssj Vegito but again lowball by making them equals and therr you go.

Ssjblue I have it as 20K x 50 making Blue a one million x base multiplier.
 
Does that negate universal somehow? Either way, Elder Kai was commenting that the "hyper dense" energy sphere in the clash was gonna be enough to destroy the Universe, iirc.
 
@Amexim

No, it doesn't negate universal. It actually makes it above baseline by a decent margin assuming they could destroy all matter in the universe, not just planets and stars. That was stated, right?
 
1) And SSJ2 " Enraged " Vegeta just so happens to be 1/10th of this ... " Shared-Universal-Shaking " feat ?

2) Explain how Kefla comes close to SSG Goku ?

Caulifa & Kale struggle to face Goku - even after Goku was tired after battling against Jiren. Yet, somehow, " Berserker SSJ Kale " tanked SSGSS Goku Kamehameha ?

This same-said Kamehameha that's supposedly " Universal-level " ?

I've heard a few claims that Kefla is that strong due to ... Caulifa's Potential & Kale's Potential being brought-forth from the Potara Fusion. ( By this Logic, Gohan should be the Strongest )

They don't even use " God Ki "


I personally feel as though others are looking at it "Half-Full" , whereas I'm looking at it ...

"Half-Empty" ; those same-said few viewing Kelfa as being near SSG & SSGSS level solely based on the Potentail of Caulifa & Kale, but I see it invertedly - I personally feel as though it shows how Weak Ultra Instinct & SSGSS is if its anywhere close to Kefla's Level

( that being Lower than SSG level )


Ironcially though, despite me saying ... " Half-Empty, Half-Full " , they don't necessarrily (imo) go hand-&-hand.

( all " evidence " to the contrary though, am i right ? )

Sure, the 2nd engagement of Caulifa & Kefla vs Goku ... Goku was " tired " ... but he still transformed into SSJ3 - which contradicts his previous statements of being tired.


(because that will further Drain him)

At one point during the Buu Saga, Goku tried to continue fighting Kid Buu in his SSJ3 form, but he reverted back into base trying to do so. Which leads me to believe that GOku in T.O.P was nowhere near as tired as he was when he fought against Kid Buu.

Even if that weren't so ..." Berserker SSJ Kale " still tanked SSGSS Kamehameha before he ever battled Jire ( when Goku fought against Caulifa & Kale the 1st time )

Furthering the view of ... " Half-Empty, Half Full " ( despite the contradiction(s) ) ...

... I'm seeing a different picture :0
 
@TheMerchant66

I wish it were " that " simple ... but SSJ3 Vegito only happened in DBH. So that's tricky to consider.

Its still unknown if Goku was referring to Gogeta or Vegito. But, if going that route to figure out SSG, something similar would have to done using Gogeta too
 
I would like to remind everyone, that I'm only wondering what others think of this. Thank you all for replying :D
 
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