Super Saiyan God should not have a finite multiplier

[DivineAura44]

Our tiers are glorified fanfiction. You can’t say “oh it should be an infinite multiplier” from the fact that Goku jumps to Tier 2 when this could change at any time. It used to make Goku 3-A. That would make it not an infinite multiplier

I don't think he's arguing from the perspective of what should and shouldn't be on the tier lists. He's arguing from a logical standpoint.
In which case he is correct. Still doesn't answer which one is right though.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It’s extrapolated from Goku stating that even fusing into Vegito wouldn’t be enough to match up to Beerus judging from what he experienced alone. It’s less of an actual multiplier and more like upscaling

The multiplier is used to give higher speed ratings that don’t have canon feats to match, so its not just upscaling.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think he's arguing from the perspective of what should and shouldn't be on the tier lists. He's arguing from a logical standpoint.

No, he is arguing that because pre-SSG BoG Goku is 4-B and SSG is 2-C, SSG can’t have a finite lowballed multiplier because it’d have to be infinite

 

[CloverDragon03]

The multiplier is used to give higher speed ratings that don’t have canon feats to match, so it’s not just upscaling.

It’s upscaling from existing multipliers. And the beginning of DBS has a sextillions c feat when the characters get much faster afterwards so idk what to tell you on the matter of feats

 

[DivineAura44]

No, he is arguing that because pre-SSG BoG Goku is 4-B and SSG is 2-C, SSG can’t have a finite lowballed multiplier because it’d have to be infinite

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Logically speaking a 4-B character going to 2-C through only a finite multiplier is impossible.

 

[Planck69]

The tiers are basically fanfiction. We can't base a solid multiplier on something that could become a 2x gap tomorrow for all we know.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Logically speaking a 4-B character going to 2-C through only a finite multiplier is impossible.

And you’re arguing from the standpoint of our Tiering System. If Goku got downgraded to 3-A, would you still say this? No, you wouldn’t, because 3-A is not an infinite AP tier. And that’s the problem. You are strictly arguing from the standpoint of our tiering system rather than from the series itself, when our tiers are subject to change at any time.

The 250,000x multiplier is extrapolated from the series itself to use regardless of where DBS’s tiering ends up

 

[Gasper]

Toriyama isn't a power scaler and he dosen't give a shit about stuff like that, just like most writers.

 

[DivineAura44]

The tiers are basically fanfiction. We can't base a solid multiplier on something that could become a 2x gap tomorrow for all we know.

To be fair that's the entire point of a CRT.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

It’s extrapolated from Goku stating that even fusing into Vegito wouldn’t be enough to match up to Beerus judging from what he experienced alone. It’s less of an actual multiplier itself and more like upscaling from existing multipliers

Exactly which would make it be derived from actual multipliers and so still make sense in verse as opposed to creating a multiplier just based on the wiki...

 

[DivineAura44]

And you’re arguing from the standpoint of our Tiering System. If Goku got downgraded to 3-A, would you still say this? No, you wouldn’t, because 3-A is not an infinite AP tier. And that’s the problem. You are strictly arguing from the standpoint of our tiering system rather than from the series itself, when our tiers are subject to change at any time.

The 250,000x multiplier is extrapolated from the series itself to use regardless of where DBS’s tiering ends up

I'm not arguing from the stand point of the tiering system. I'm simply saying Finite x Finite going to Infinite is not possible. That has nothing to do with the tier system.

 

[Planck69]

Were not basing a multiplier on something that can be changed completely independently of the series in question to this degree.

We do not do this for any other multipliers that I'm aware of and we won't start here. Using the upscaling form in-universe multipliers makes actual sense since it's using canon information and not the opinions of some people online.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

If the infinite multiplier were accepted, would that change anything?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah and for all intents and purposes the word infinite is never mentioned in canon so it doesn't exist. We use it for own tiering purposes, but that's only for us and thus isn't objective. The only objective multiplier is one inferred or stated in the work itself.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not arguing from the stand point of the tiering system. I'm simply saying Finite x Finite going to Infinite is not possible. That has nothing to do with the tier system.

Yes you are, because this relies on the idea of Goku always being 2-C in SSG. You wouldn’t say this if SSG Goku was 3-A, since 3-A is not an infinite AP tier. If your argument changes strictly based on what tier the character is, you’re arguing from the tiering system rather than from the series itself.

The 250,000x thing is a minimum to use regardless of tiers

 

[Gasper]

I'm not arguing from the stand point of the tiering system. I'm simply saying Finite x Finite going to Infinite is not possible. That has nothing to do with the tier system.

Buddy, this is fiction. So, aliens that can turn into big apes is possible but this isn't? What is happening to power scaling?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah and for all intents and purposes the word infinite is never mentioned in canon so it doesn't exist. We use it for own tiering purposes, but that's only for us and thus isn't objective. The only objective multiplier is one inferred or stated in the work itself.

Sometimes we have quotes about infinite and immeasurable, like Gohan's infinite power, as well as several quotes about infinite power, i just don't think it's actually true.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Buddy, this is fiction. So, aliens that can turn into big apes is possible but this isn't? What is happening to power scaling?

Trying to apply too much logic to drawings of people with tails farting apart planets.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Sometimes we have quotes about infinite and immeasurable, like Gohan's infinite power, as well as several quotes about infinite power, i just don't think it's actually true.

I'm not talking about when infinite is talked literally. The closest thing when infinite was used properly was about the Android's energy.

 

[Gasper]

Trying to apply too much logic to drawings of people with tails farting apart planets.

Exactly. Like, Godzilla's size isn't realistic for example or destroying Black holes while people in fiction do it all the time.

 

[LordTracer]

I’m in agreement with Planck and Clover here. You can’t take tiers that we came up with and use them to manufacture a multiplier, that’s not how it works.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It used to make Goku 3-A.

And it should've stayed that way

 

[CloverDragon03]

And it should've stayed that way

Not exactly productive or relevant to the thread in question so let’s not

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I’m in agreement with Planck and Clover here. You can’t take tiers that we came up with and use them to manufacture a multiplier, that’s not how it works.

But we've discarded multipliers for being too low or too high in the past based on our own tiers and standards, why is THIS any different? I just want a consistent explanation, because again, before the 20x multiplier, SSJ2 couldn't be a 2x multiplier because it was "too low to turn a stomp around", even though that's based on our understanding between power gaps of characters in general fiction rather than taking the in-universe gap needed into account.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Not exactly productive or relevant to the thread in question so let’s not

I'm just playing mate. Either way, I think the point has been made, I just wish to have my question above answered before I move on to the next revision.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm not talking about when infinite is talked literally. The closest thing when infinite was used properly was about the Android's energy.

I'm talking about it

 

[CloverDragon03]

@The_Yellow_Topaz As far as your question goes, I couldn’t tell you. I thought it was because the 2x SSJ2 multiplier is never actually stated

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It’s upscaling from existing multipliers. And the beginning of DBS has a sextillions c feat when the characters get much faster afterwards so idk what to tell you on the matter of feats

I am just pointing out that the wiki is basing AP on canon showings while simultaneously basing speed off multipliers that make no sense when applied to AP.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I am just pointing out that the wiki is basing AP on canon showings while simultaneously basing speed off multipliers that make no sense when applied to AP.

“Make no sense” how exactly?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

@The_Yellow_Topaz As far as your question goes, I couldn’t tell you. I thought it was because the 2x SSJ2 multiplier is never actually stated

No multiplier is actually stated in the show, all of them, and I mean ALL OF THEM (I don't), came from a guidebook statement, except Kaioken. I don't know the specifics about the SSJ2 scenario, I was just going off of what was said in my SSB multiplier (or was the speed one, idr) revision.

Of course, this is not your fault, I don't think you even know why they did that when the wiki clearly works on a "low end" basis, but still I wonder why the SS3 Multiplier isn't used despite having several statements and nearly no contradiction.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I don't know about SSJ multipliers beyond the one concerning SSJ1 so I can't make a case for any else.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't know about SSJ multipliers beyond the one concerning SSJ1 so I can't make a case for any else.

Same here for me

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Since ain't nobody able to provide any satisfying answers to my dillema, I think I'll ask this to be closed and start a new thread on SSJ3. Please close this up so we can get our boy SSJ3 his 4x multiplier over SSJ2

 

[Damage3245]

Closing.