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The Super Saiyan God Speed multiplier

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Padaruyos

Padaruyos

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A while ago a thread was made to determine SSG's multiplier. It was concluded that SSG's power multiplier should be higher than the gap between Buu Saga Base Goku and Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

However this principle should be applied to SSG Goku's speed multiplier as well.

First, a few points

1. Why is SSG even scaled above Buu Saga Vegito?
After Goku's miserable attempt at fighting Beerus, he concluded that not even fusing with Vegeta will allow him to stand a chance against Beerus. Later after the SSG ritual is performed, he is confident he can fight against Beerus. This is important due to the implication that not even Super Saiyan 3 Vegito will be as strong as SSG Goku, thus making its power boost stronger than just fusing with Vegeta and then turning Super Saiyan 3 on top of it.

4MM76Sw.jpg


2. How does Buu Saga Vegito compare to Base Goku?
As stated by AKM in this thread, a fusion's base form is always stronger than one of the fusee's at max power. In this case, Base Buu Saga Vegito is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. A fusion's base form being stronger than each of it's fusees at maximum power is consistent and is always shown to be true everytime a fusion is shown on screen.
  • Base Gotenks is stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta, who is far stronger than Super Saiyan Trunks or Goten individually
  • Super Saiyan Vegito easily beats up Gohan absorbed Super Buu. And base Vegito is far stronger than post-ROSAT base Gotenks, who is over 50x stronger than pre-ROSAT base Gotenks, who already exceeds Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta.
  • Base Kefla outclasses Super Saiyan God Goku, who was able to easily overpower Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla and Super Saiyan Berserk Kale.
  • Base Gogeta performed much better against Super Saiyan Broly than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta
In case of Buu Saga Vegito, we have a statement from one of the Daizenshuus stating that Base Vegito is stronger than a Super Saiyan 3, and then can further transform into a Super Saiyan.

VjPBdFU.jpg


Vegito himself should be able to use Super Saiyan 3. Goku himself knows how to transform into SS3, and even Goten and Trunks who can only tap into SS1 was able to use SS3 after observing Goku using it once. Goku likely also accounted for Super Saiyan 3 Vegito when he determined that not even Vegito will beat Beerus.

With points 1 and 2 in mind, a scaling chain can be made.

Base Goku < SS3 Goku < Base Vegito < SS3 Vegito < SSG Goku

3, Does this apply to speed as well?
Yes. A general rule in Dragon Ball is that a stronger character is most likely going to be faster as well, this is true for nearly every fight in Dragon Ball, as long as it does not involve characters specifically specializing for speed over power (such as Dyspo) or using a specific technique that sacrifices one for the other (Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks for example). And thus by this rule, SSG Goku should be faster than SS3 Vegito, simply due to having a higher power level.

Not only that, base fusions are also faster than each of its fusees at maximum speed. Base Gogeta was able to keep up with Super Saiyan Broly who is at least as fast as SSB Goku/Vegeta, and Base Kefla speedblitzes SSG Goku, who SS2 Caulifla and SS Berserk Kale were struggling to keep up with. The same should apply to Buu Saga Base Vegito, he should be significantly faster than SS3 Goku in his base form. He should also be able to turn Super Saiyan 3 to go even faster, and SSG Goku should at least be as fast as SS3 Vegito.

4. So what's the speed multiplier for SSG?
Right now only SS1 has a speed multiplier which is 50x. SS2 or SS3 are much faster, but exactly how much is unquantifiable. Base Vegito should be at least as fast as SS3 Goku, and then he can become 50x faster with Super Saiyan, becoming even faster with SS2 or SS3, and SSG Goku being faster than SS3 Vegito

Base Goku < SS Goku (50x) < SS3 Goku < Base Vegito < SS Vegito (50x) < SS3 Vegito < SSG Goku

And thus SSG should have an At least 2500x speed multiplier.

Votes (Staff in bold):

Agree: @omegabronic @AwkguyDB @Stefano4444 @LuffyRuffy46307 @Da3ggman @DarkDragonMedeus @LordTracer @SirAlex09 @Zeinx1 @Shiraito983 @CryptonBestDbFan @Damage3245 @Killerdrone123 @Spinoirr @Kroneii1
Disagree:
Neutral
 
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Ednaxel2 said:
It was agreed by some staff in a thread made by Null that SSJ2 and 3 are >20x SSJ1
so SSJ (50x) x SSJ3 (>20x) < Vegito, Vegito x SSJ (50x) x SSJ3 (>20x) = 1,000,000x
Click to expand...
That’s because they scale above SSJ Grade 3/Powerhouse, which also makes the user significantly slower, so I don’t know if you can apply that multiplier to speed as well.

The >2,500x multiplier seems alright to me though.
 
TheGreatBanana said:
It would apply for both, since ssj2 and ssg increase all stats literally and not increase one stat and decrease another.
Click to expand...
Not much relevant for what i said, it increases all stats, but ssj2 is upscaling in power to a purely strenght multiplier, it isn't decreasing anything, but also isn't upscaling from any multiplier of speed other than SSJ1's 50x
 
The speed scaling blog currently used is mine, so for aplication of this all i would need is a wording for the justification of the multiplier to put alongside the other notes, because i believe that users can't edit other users blogs, correct me if i am wrong
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
2500x is a minimum speed multiplier yes. Key word being minimum.
Click to expand...
LordTracer said:
The >2,500x multiplier seems alright to me though.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
I agree with 2500x.
Click to expand...
We have 3 staff agrees now, after a grace period this can be applied.

SSG speed multiplier will be >SS3*SS3 but since SS3 is just >50x this ends up being >2500x right now.

For those asking why the speed multiplier is not the same as the current SSG power multiplier, this is because we don't have a concrete SS2 or SS3 speed multiplier for SSG to upscale from, and thus there's only SS1's 50x multiplier that can be used.

Why isn't SS2's power multiplier usable for speed as well?
Our current SS2 power multiplier is upscaled from Super Saiyan Grade 3, a form that sacrifices speed for power. This form is actually even slower than the basic Super Saiyan form and thus it's not really usable to upscale SS2's speed from. Since SS2 is supposed to be the best form in every aspect, SS2's power is upscaled from SS Grade 3 while its speed can be upscaled from just the basic SS or SS Grade 2, both of which has the same 50x speed multiplier.

We have no real concrete proof that SS2's speed is over 20x faster like SS2's power is, and the assumption that SS2 is >20x faster because its power is >20x as well is just that, an assumption. While yes a general increase in power level or Ki will always make someone faster, the increase is not always linear to power, and Super Saiyan Grade 3 is the proof of that. This is different from Kaio-Ken or Super Saiyan 1. Kaio-Ken is explicitly mentioned to multiply speed, while Super Saiyan has its own speed boost feats that proves its 50x multiplier also applies to speed (KKx20 only being as fast as 50% Frieza at best while SS Goku is faster than 100% Frieza). Super Saiyan 2 doesn't have any of those. By using previous multipliers we can upscale SS2's speed so it becomes superior to any previous forms, it's just that the fastest form pre-SS2 is the basic Super Saiyan (or SS Grade 2). By using feats we can see that SS2 makes the user significantly faster, however the feats we see during the Cell Saga is Gohan speed blitzing Cell who was previously faster than him, who later tried to use an even slower form just to try to catch up to Gohan's power, only to get blitzed even harder. There is also no physical fight between Super Perfect Cell and SS2 Gohan, meaning we can't get a speed scaling from it either. The best we can get is SS2 having a speed blitz level speed boost, an unquantifiable boost. And thus SS2 remains just a >50x speed multiplier.

Super Saiyan 3 also lacks any acceptable multipliers to use, though it is definitely a massive speed boost, it's just unquantifiable. As DDM said, the 2500x speed multiplier for SSG is the bare minimum, if we later end up finding an acceptable speed multiplier for SS2 and SS3, the SSG multiplier will be updated to reflect the new multipliers.
 
Last edited:
Padaruyos said:
We have 3 staff agrees now, after a grace period this can be applied.

SSG speed multiplier will be >SS3*SS3 but since SS3 is just >50x this ends up being >2500x right now.

For those asking why the speed multiplier is not the same as the current SSG power multiplier, this is because we don't have a concrete SS2 or SS3 speed multiplier for SSG to upscale from, and thus there's only SS1's 50x multiplier that can be used.

Why isn't SS2's power multiplier usable for speed as well?
Our current SS2 power multiplier is upscaled from Super Saiyan Grade 3, a form that sacrifices speed for power. This form is actually even slower than the basic Super Saiyan form and thus it's not really usable to upscale SS2's speed from. Since SS2 is supposed to be the best form in every aspect, SS2's power is upscaled from SS Grade 3 while its speed can be upscaled from just the basic SS or SS Grade 2, both of which has the same 50x speed multiplier.

We have no real concrete proof that SS2's speed is over 20x faster like SS2's power is, and the assumption that SS2 is >20x faster because its power is >20x as well is just that, an assumption. While yes a general increase in power level or Ki will always make someone faster, the increase is not always linear to power, and Super Saiyan Grade 3 is the proof of that. This is different from Kaio-Ken or Super Saiyan 1. Kaio-Ken is explicitly mentioned to multiply speed, while Super Saiyan has its own speed boost feats that proves its 50x multiplier also applies to speed (KKx20 only being as fast as 50% Frieza at best while SS Goku is faster than 100% Frieza). Super Saiyan 2 doesn't have any of those. By using previous multipliers we can upscale SS2's speed so it becomes superior to any previous forms, it's just that the fastest form pre-SS2 is the basic Super Saiyan (or SS Grade 2). By using feats we can see that SS2 makes the user significantly faster, however the feats we see during the Cell Saga is Gohan speed blitzing Cell who was previously faster than him, who later tried to use an even slower form just to try to catch up to Gohan's power, only to get blitzed even harder. There is also no physical fight between Super Perfect Cell and SS2 Gohan, meaning we can't get a speed scaling from it either. The best we can get is SS2 having a speed blitz level speed boost, an unquantifiable boost. And thus SS2 remains just a >50x speed multiplier.

Super Saiyan 3 also lacks any acceptable multipliers to use, though it is definitely a massive speed boost, it's just unquantifiable. As DDM said, the 2500x speed multiplier for SSG is the bare minimum, if we later end up finding an acceptable speed multiplier for SS2 and SS3, the SSG multiplier will be updated to reflect the new multipliers.
Click to expand...
I fully agree with this
 
I feel like DBS speeds need to still be adjusted because the blog uses the destruction of a 2-C macrocosm as a baseline as if they were all lined up next to eachother, afaik it doesn’t even bother to adress the fact that the explosion bills reacted to would obviously be traversing between different space times.
 
AguilaR202 said:
I feel like DBS speeds need to still be adjusted because the blog uses the destruction of a 2-C macrocosm as a baseline as if they were all lined up next to eachother, afaik it doesn’t even bother to adress the fact that the explosion bills reacted to would obviously be traversing between different space times.
Click to expand...
going to different space times gives no speed whatsoever
 
omegabronic said:
going to different space times gives no speed whatsoever
Click to expand...
Actually my point is that you can’t measure its speed for engulfing the macrocosm because the blast doesn’t just travel normal distance, rather it crosses between space times meaning whatever speed calced there is invalid and inflated because it treats the explosion as moving in a single straight line across three different space times.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Actually my point is that you can’t measure its speed for engulfing the macrocosm because the blast doesn’t just travel normal distance, rather it crosses between space times meaning whatever speed calced there is invalid and inflated because it treats the explosion as moving in a single straight line across three different space times.
Click to expand...
Go ahead, make a CRT and do a recalc yourself if you think that's true. This thread is exclusively to discuss multipliers and not the starting base value.

Anyways I think this thread has fulfilled its purpose.

@omegabronic I'll look into your blog real quick
 
@omegabronic I fixed some values

Suppressed Beerus/Base DBS Goku Post BoG - 118.25 sextillion c (x1)

SSJ Goku - 5.9125 Septillion c (x50)

SSJ2 and SSJ3 - At least 5.9125 Septillion c, likely far higher (x50)

SSJG Goku - At least 295.625 Septillion c, likely far higher (x2500)

Pre-Goku Black Saga SSJB Goku - At least 14.78125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x125000)

SSJB KKx10 (U6 Saga) Goku - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB Goku from Hit rematch and onwards - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB KKx20 Goku (beginning of ToP) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

UIO1 and UIO2 Goku - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku (Post UIO2) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) - At least 59.125 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x500,000,000)

Base Gogeta - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJ Gogeta - At least 147.8125 Nonillion c , likely far higher (x1,250,000,000)

(Hypothetical) SSG Gogeta - At least 7.390625 Decillion c, likely far higher (x62,500,000,000)

SSJB Gogeta - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

SSJ (Full Power) Broly - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

UIO3 Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

MUI Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)
 
AguilaR202 said:
Actually my point is that you can’t measure its speed for engulfing the macrocosm because the blast doesn’t just travel normal distance, rather it crosses between space times meaning whatever speed calced there is invalid and inflated because it treats the explosion as moving in a single straight line across three different space times.
Click to expand...
it does travel the 3D distance inside the realms
 
Padaruyos said:
@omegabronic I fixed some values

Suppressed Beerus/Base DBS Goku Post BoG - 118.25 sextillion c (x1)

SSJ Goku - 5.9125 Septillion c (x50)

SSJ2 and SSJ3 - At least 5.9125 Septillion c, likely far higher (x50)

SSJG Goku - At least 295.625 Septillion c, likely far higher (x2500)

Pre-Goku Black Saga SSJB Goku - At least 14.78125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x125000)

SSJB KKx10 (U6 Saga) Goku - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB Goku from Hit rematch and onwards - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB KKx20 Goku (beginning of ToP) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

UIO1 and UIO2 Goku - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku (Post UIO2) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) - At least 59.125 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x500,000,000)

Base Gogeta - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJ Gogeta - At least 147.8125 Nonillion c , likely far higher (x1,250,000,000)

(Hypothetical) SSG Gogeta - At least 7.390625 Decillion c, likely far higher (x62,500,000,000)

SSJB Gogeta - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

SSJ (Full Power) Broly - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

UIO3 Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

MUI Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)
Click to expand...
could you explain to me real quick where i got the multiplier wrong thus leaving lower results? just need to know for possible future upgrades

edit: Since Gogeta didn't went SSJG i don't think that it matters enough to add him in that form, good catch on my slip up with SSJB's multiplier however, i see the mistake now

i edited the blog with the correct values now, this can now officially be applied, can't edit profiles rn due to being busy with other stuff tho, sorry
 
Last edited:
Padaruyos said:
@omegabronic I fixed some values

Suppressed Beerus/Base DBS Goku Post BoG - 118.25 sextillion c (x1)

SSJ Goku - 5.9125 Septillion c (x50)

SSJ2 and SSJ3 - At least 5.9125 Septillion c, likely far higher (x50)

SSJG Goku - At least 295.625 Septillion c, likely far higher (x2500)

Pre-Goku Black Saga SSJB Goku - At least 14.78125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x125000)

SSJB KKx10 (U6 Saga) Goku - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB Goku from Hit rematch and onwards - At least 147.8125 Octillion c, likely far higher (x1,250,000)

SSJB KKx20 Goku (beginning of ToP) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

UIO1 and UIO2 Goku - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku (Post UIO2) - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJB Goku KKx20 (Post UIO2) - At least 59.125 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x500,000,000)

Base Gogeta - At least 2.95625 Nonillion c, likely far higher (x25,000,000)

SSJ Gogeta - At least 147.8125 Nonillion c , likely far higher (x1,250,000,000)

(Hypothetical) SSG Gogeta - At least 7.390625 Decillion c, likely far higher (x62,500,000,000)

SSJB Gogeta - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

SSJ (Full Power) Broly - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

UIO3 Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)

MUI Goku - At least 369.53125 Decillion c, likely far higher (x3.125.000.000.000)
Click to expand...
Might as well add Base Goku for each team he grows stronger alongside his strongest form
 
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