The Sword Daoist challenges The Supreme God (Battle for Strongest 4-A Non-Smurf)

[XDragnoir]

In my defense, it felt quite redundant from a indexing perspective

Bruh, I do agree, but since we don't have a blog explaining it we should keep it in the profile.

Not like that even covered everything, since there's also the gap from Grand Dao to Heavenly Dao, which then have their own inner levels with the Primordial Chaos at the top and later on we get shit about Supreme Daos, Omega Daos, etc but that part doesn't affect this fight.

The proof is literally on the profile tho, in the blog, noted in the PnA... Mujin's abilities explicitly function via his Core Element onto others Core Element, which contains the Mind, Body, Soul, Concept, etc etc.

The proof is literally standing right in front of your ******* face.

Yeah, nah, his profile barely explain anything, but whatever, doesn't change anything.

I never said the abilities didn't have scans. I said the layers did not have scans.

There is info about the first layers in one of the scans in his profile, the others aren't directly stated so it's harder to get specific scans for them, we know there is a hierarchy for the Daos (Lesser, Grand and then Heavenly) so that's why there are layers.

 

[azontr]

Uh they already went up the list dog-

This match is over. Mujin and Satan are in like 5th spot now lmao.

 

[XDragnoir]

Uh they already went up the list dog-

This match is over. Mujin and Satan are in like 5th spot now lmao.

That's not how match ups works? If the result changes the spots can be reversed effortlessly.

 

[azontr]

Dude what?

 

[XDragnoir]

Dude what?

Their spots in the list don't stop us from continuing the match.

Also, Planck is the only one who said you could go ahead because he lost interest, the match isn't over at all.

 

[azontr]

Their spots in the list don't stop us from keeping the match.

I mean... You're right, but the whole point I made this match was to get them a higher spot in the list. My desire has been fulfilled long since, so, I don't want to debate anymore lol.

Also, Planck is the only one who said you could go ahead because he lost interest, the match isn't over at all.

Which I call concession, as, in his words:

Mujin can probably move ahead in sheer versatility, if nothing else.

Once I have that I've no reason to do a match I didn't make for any reason else but to get a concession lol.

 

[XDragnoir]

If you don't want to keep the debate then it's not a fair spot, lol.

Like, I am pretty sure we were going more for an incon than any side winning (literally both start with the same move).

Also, versatility doesn't mean anything to get a spot IMO, but I do see Planck's point, Ning is too limited hax wise at this point.

 

[Deceived3596]

Ryu's a femboy.

 

[azontr]

Also, versatility doesn't mean anything to get a spot IMO,

I mean in this case where two characters have very similar abilities and its difficult to determine who wins (hence incon as you said) that versatility would be the deciding factor in the end. At least that's how I see it

 

[azontr]

Ryu's a femboy.

That's the way uh huh uh huh, I like it, uh huh uh huh.

 

[azontr]

I mean in this case where two characters have very similar abilities and its difficult to determine who wins (hence incon as you said) that versatility would be the deciding factor in the end. At least that's how I see it

Would also like to add that Mujin has a 49,000 times AP advantage (145 ExaFOE vs 2.94 PetaFOE), so he can literally just twitch a muscle the moment the fight starts and Ning would die and get his regen negated (which he doesn't resist) lel.

 

[XDragnoir]

Would also like to add that Mujin has a 49,000 times AP advantage (145 ExaFOE vs 2.94 PetaFOE), so he can literally just twitch a muscle the moment the fight starts and Ning would die and get his regen negated (which he doesn't resist) lel.

Ning can cultivate to 3B in this key, as I said before, that's literally how he won the final fight of this key. And literally, if Mujin does anything other than concept paralysis he will get concept locked himself.

Also, only Ning's main body would be destroyed by thay anyway, his Primaltwin would still be there.

 

[Planck69]

Ning has the misfortune of his mid-story self fighting an endgame dude.

@azontr I know I said that he can move on but @XDragnoir can keep debating this if they want. My opinion doesn't supersede theirs.

 

[azontr]

@azontr I know I said that he can move on but @XDragnoir can keep debating this if they want. My opinion doesn't supersede theirs.

He 100% is free to do so. That doesn't mean I have to engage.

 

[azontr]

Ning can cultivate to 3B in this key, as I said before, that's literally how he won the final fight of this key. And literally, if Mujin does anything other than concept paralysis he will get concept locked himself.

Also if he can do this put it on the profile. Its not stated he can somehow become 3-B on the profile. It's also not even allowed to jump tiers like that in a VS Match so this is irrelevant, ergo, Mujin looks at Ning and he dies.

Also, only Ning's main body would be destroyed by thay anyway, his Primaltwin would still be there.

Mujin would already know about that and finger flick it.

 

[Deceived3596]

Nerd response.

 

[azontr]

Nerd response.

That's insane.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also if he can do this put it on the profile. Its not stated he can somehow become 3-B on the profile. It's also not even allowed to jump tiers like that in a VS Match so this is irrelevant, ergo, Mujin looks at Ning and he dies.

Bruh, again that's Planck's fault (joke, it's just that cultivating to the next stage is a basic thing for most cultivator in the wiki, even moreso the MCs, so I guess we took it as granted instead of properly explaining it)

As for it not being allowed... yes, it is allowed, idk who told you it isn't. Higher tiered things can be restricted, but they aren't restricted by default nor can they be restricted for top 5/10 threads.

Guess I will have to do a CRT to add cultivation to his stats, which is really stupid but I get the need for it + try to upgrade his concept hax to type 1.

Mujin would already know about that and finger flick it.

Someone said he had some kind of sixth sense before but how does it work? Is it passive? The only scan in his profile about it has him blinking to search for someone and it also seems he was actively searching for that character.

 

[azontr]

nor can they be restricted for top 5/10 threads.

Yes they can lmao. There's nowhere in the rules saying that they can't be restricted, and I AM actively restricting it. So, no, Ning cannot cultivate to 3-B here. If he was allowed to do that I could argue Mujin would become Low 2-C.

Someone said he had some kind of sixth sense before but how does it work? Is it passive? The only scan in his profile about it has him blinking to search for someone and it also seems he was actively searching for that character.

He was actively searching for Mori and Satan but his ability to sense power is passive. He'd sense the Primaltwin's power from within its dimension.

 

[RemainsAE]

I agree with Azontr, but still don’t know too much on Ji Ning. Following

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yes they can lmao. There's nowhere in the rules saying that they can't be restricted, and I AM actively restricting it. So, no, Ning cannot cultivate to 3-B here. If he was allowed to do that I could argue Mujin would become Low 2-C.

Considering it's a Top 10 strongest, you can't really restrict it. Especially considering it isn't a smurf. Mujin jumping to Low 2-C, however, is not allowed for the top 10 strongest, since it will be a smurf to 4D.

 

[azontr]

Considering it's a Top 10 strongest, you can't really restrict it.

Yes, I can, because it's not in the rules that I can't.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yes, I can, because it's not in the rules that I can't.

For a vs thread, for sure you can. But you're trying to nominate a spot for the top 10 strongest, and you are actively restricting something THAT makes them strongest.

Its the same reason why all optional equipments are allowed. They can be restricted, sure, but for a top 10 nomination, you are kinda just restricting them from unleashing their full strength if the abilities aren't smurf.

 

[azontr]

For a vs thread, for sure you can. But you're trying to nominate a spot for the top 10 strongest, and you are actively restricting something THAT makes them strongest.

Its the same reason why all optional equipments are allowed. They can be restricted, sure, but for a top 10 nomination, you are kinda just restricting them from unleashing their full strength if the abilities aren't smurf.

I'm talking about in the rules of the Top 10 Strongest. There is no rule (unspoken or spoken) that says I (or any other thread maker) cannot restrict someone from jumping to a higher tier in a match. You're just applying your own logic to something that is never stated or implied.

 

[azontr]

I'm talking about in the rules of the Top 10 Strongest. There is no rule (unspoken or spoken) that says I (or any other thread maker) cannot restrict someone from jumping to a higher tier in a match. You're just applying your own logic to something that is never stated or implied.

In fact, reading back to the rules of the Non-Smurf threads, it actively says ONLY the base Stats are considered for a placement. Ning's 3-B Cultivation is both not on the profile AND not his base stats in this key.

 

[XDragnoir]

Yes they can lmao. There's nowhere in the rules saying that they can't be restricted, and I AM actively restricting it. So, no, Ning cannot cultivate to 3-B here. If he was allowed to do that I could argue Mujin would become Low 2-C.

No, the thread is literally STRONGEST character, you can't restrict any of their powers.

Meanwhile L2C is smurf, so no you can't say that and if you're saying he CAN become that tier I can have him removed for being smurf.

He was actively searching for Mori and Satan but his ability to sense power is passive. He'd sense the Primaltwin's power from within its dimension.

Do you have any scans with it being passive then?

In fact, reading back to the rules of the Non-Smurf threads, it actively says ONLY the base Stats are considered for a placement. Ning's 3-B Cultivation is both not on the profile AND not his base stats in this key.

You're missing some context here.

Nominations are only allowed for the base stats and base stats in this context isn't even about base forms, it refers to AP/Dura so even if a character is X, Y via Super Form they can be nominated for both X and Y.

Absolutely nothing here is about being able to transform to higher tiered forms (cultivation isn't exactly a transformation, but it's close enough)

 

[azontr]

You're missing some context here.

Nominations are only allowed for the base stats and base stats in this context isn't even about base forms, it refers to AP/Dura so even if a character is X, Y via Super Form they can be nominated for both X and Y.

Absolutely nothing here is about being able to transform to higher tiered forms (cultivation isn't exactly a transformation, but it's close enough)

No, the thread is literally STRONGEST character, you can't restrict any of their powers.

Meanwhile L2C is smurf, so no you can't say that and if you're saying he CAN become that tier I can have him removed for being smurf.

1. I am not "missing context", the rules reiterate exactly what I say.

If you were to put this on Ning's profile: "4-A, up to 3-B via Cultivation" or whatever it is, that would be something that isn't his base stats, which would be 4-A. You could nominate him for both tiers yes but you couldn't allow him to become 3-B in his 4-A key.

2. Mujin can't actively become Low 2-C but I used that as an example to prove my point.

Do you have any scans with it being passive then?

Give me a second.

Like Satan, Mujin (who has all of Satan's Power's, senses, etc) uses strength and power levels to distinguish things around him (which is passive), so Mujin would distinguish Ning via his power, and as such would sense Ning's Primaltwin's power from within its dimension along with Ning's. Also, if Ning's power and his Primaltwin's power are the same, then he'd just sense the overlap between the two beings and wouldn't distinguish them.

 

[azontr]

And, even under the assumption that Ning can cultivate up to 3-B... is he like, CONSTANTLY cultivating power, every second, even the moment the fight starts, to get to that level? If not, my point would still apply that Mujin CAN kill Ning before he starts to cultivate to that level of power.

And if you claim he is constantly cultivating his power every second of every day, then can I see scans for that?

 

[XDragnoir]

And, even under the assumption that Ning can cultivate up to 3-B... is he like, CONSTANTLY cultivating power, every second, even the moment the fight starts, to get to that level? If not, my point would still apply that Mujin CAN kill Ning before he starts to cultivate to that level of power.

He is at the peak of this key, that means he is at the limit of his current level level and can breakthrough at will.

And yes, he can cultivate mid-fight even if he wasn't at the limit as it's just a matter of comprehending the Dao and accumulating energy, which he can do mid-fight due to having the ability to split his mind.

And if you claim he is constantly cultivating his power every second of every day, then can I see scans for that?

I never claimed that tho? He can do it whenever he wants and he did indeed cultivate his soul every moment when he was a kid, that and again, he can split his mind to do it mid fight, but in this case the energy/comprehension are already there.

 

[azontr]

He is at the peak of this key, that means he is at the limit of his current level level and can breakthrough at will.

And yes, he can cultivate mid-fight even if he wasn't at the limit as it's just a matter of comprehending the Dao and accumulating energy, which he can do mid-fight due to having the ability to split his mind.

And would he start the fight with IMMEDIATELY breaking through into the next realm? Has he ever done that? If not, again, muscle twitch GG.

I never claimed that tho?

I never said you did. I said IF you did, which was in the event that you would respond with that-

 

[XDragnoir]

Like Satan, Mujin (who has all of Satan's Power's, senses, etc) uses strength and power levels to distinguish things around him (which is passive), so Mujin would distinguish Ning via his power, and as such would sense Ning's Primaltwin's power from within its dimension along with Ning's.

Got it.

Also, if Ning's power and his Primaltwin's power are the same, then he'd just sense the overlap between the two beings and wouldn't distinguish them.

They aren't exactly the same, there are some differences, if you want to know that.

And would he start the fight with IMMEDIATELY breaking through into the next realm? Has he ever done that? If not, again, muscle twitch GG.

He doesn't need to, he starts with Concept lock, if Mujin doesn't do the same he will be the only one locked and that's a win for Ning.

I never said you did. I said IF you did, which was in the event that you would respond with that-

Got it.

 

[azontr]

They aren't exactly the same, there are some differences, if you want to know that.

Are these differences major to the point they are indistinguishable from each other?

He doesn't need to, he starts with Concept lock, if Mujin doesn't do the same he will be the only one locked and that's a win for Ning.

I'm not saying Mujin DOESN'T start with Concept Lock. I'm saying that even if they BOTH start with Concept Lock, Mujin twitching a muscle or breathing is faster than either of them could think to Concept Lock, a muscle twitch being even more so since it's an inadvertent physical reaction that nobody has to think to do.

 

[Planck69]

We're really saying that a body motion is faster than thought based moves? Let alone the fact that Mujin really wasn't annihilating star systems every twitch from what I recall?

I'm not even arguing for Ning but this just feels very iffy.

 

[azontr]

We're really saying that a body motion is faster than thought based moves? Let alone the fact that Mujin really wasn't annihilating star systems every twitch from what I recall?

I'm not even arguing for Ning but this just feels very iffy.

...Mujin is literally 49,000 times stronger than Ning, Planck. He doesn't need to annihilate star systems with a twitch, he's one shotting.

And, yes, a muscle twitch is objectively faster than a thought??? That's not an argument.

 

[Planck69]

...Mujin is literally 49,000 times stronger than Ning, Planck. He doesn't need to annihilate star systems with a twitch, he's one shotting.

Never denied this.

And, yes, a muscle twitch is objectively faster than a thought??? That's not an argument.

My issue was here. Maybe I misread it when I read the webcomic but Mujin wasn't causing massive amounts of destruction or generating extreme power with involuntary bodily actions.

Like, we meme about it here but if you put say, Goku against Mujin, the former isn't actually twitching the latter away by existing.

 

[azontr]

My issue was here. Maybe I misread it when I read the webcomic but Mujin wasn't causing massive amounts of destruction or generating extreme power with involuntary bodily actions.

Like, we meme about it here but if you put say, Goku against Mujin, the former isn't actually twitching the latter away by existing.

I have scans that says he CAN generate massive amounts of power with involuntary bodily reactions, in a far weaker state than this, if you'll give me the chance to collect it.

EDIT: Mujin can literally damage people without even moving. Mujin can annihilate people merely by tightening a single muscle, and proceeds to nearly do so.

 

[azontr]

I edited the scans into my above post.

 

[Planck69]

I have scans that says he CAN generate massive amounts of power with involuntary bodily reactions, in a far weaker state than this, if you'll give me the chance to collect it.

EDIT: Mujin can literally damage people without even moving. Mujin can annihilate people merely by tightening a single muscle, and proceeds to nearly do so.

I mean, sure thanks for the scans for this. My issue was taking it as though it was a default for very massive power gaps.

 

[azontr]

I mean, sure thanks for the scans for this. My issue was taking it as though it was a default for very massive power gaps.

I don't see why we would assume it's so much massively weaker than his normal attacks that he wouldn't be able to one-tap someone so much weaker than him.

 

[RemainsAE]

I have scans that says he CAN generate massive amounts of power with involuntary bodily reactions, in a far weaker state than this, if you'll give me the chance to collect it.

EDIT: Mujin can literally damage people without even moving. Mujin can annihilate people merely by tightening a single muscle, and proceeds to nearly do so.

Well yeah mori stated back when he was super weak that in his prime a sneeze would kill the opponent he was facing. Or when mujin was spam killing one bro by coughing