The Sword Daoist challenges The Supreme God (Battle for Strongest 4-A Non-Smurf)

[azontr]

Mujin Park:

Ji Ning:

Speed is equalized.

Both are at Peak 4-A keys.

So yeah, fight.

 

[Rikimarox2]

What are Mujin's first in character move, does he have passives, and can he survive the thought-based soul crush?

 

[azontr]

What are Mujin's first in character move, does he have passives, and can he survive the thought-based soul crush?

His first move is thought-based Soul, Mind, Body, and Concept paralysis. After that he'll resort to trying out some lesser lethal shit before straight up ripping out his opponent's Concept and Information (Type 2) and absorbing their powers.

Also, Mujin doesn't need his soul to fight so crushing it ain't gon do shit.

 

[azontr]

Bump.

 

[XDragnoir]

His first move is thought-based Soul, Mind, Body, and Concept paralysis. After that he'll resort to trying out some lesser lethal shit before straight up ripping out his opponent's Concept and Information (Type 2) and absorbing their powers.

Also, Mujin doesn't need his soul to fight so crushing it ain't gon do shit.

Ning resists both soul paralysis and concept paralysis and well, he kinda starts with his own concept paralysis (type 2) which has quite a few layers at this point iirc.

Depending on how many layers Mujin can resist, they will both paralyse each other, so incon.

 

[azontr]

Ning resists both soul paralysis and concept paralysis and well, he kinda starts with his own concept paralysis (type 2) which has quite a few layers at this point iirc.

Depending on how many layers Mujin can resist, they will both paralyse each other, so incon.

Ning doesn't resist the biological aspect of it or the information aspect of Mujin's hax, so, no, its not an incon at all.

 

[XDragnoir]

Ning doesn't resist the biological aspect of it or the information aspect of Mujin's hax, so, no, its not an incon at all.

They both will be paralyzed if Mujin can't resist his concept paralysis.

 

[azontr]

They both will be paralyzed if Mujin can't resist his concept paralysis.

How many layers does Ning's have?

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, would Mujin know about Ning's 2nd body at rhe start? If he doesn't then his Primaltwin would still be up

 

[azontr]

How far away is Ning's Primaltwin from the battle?

 

[Maitreya12]

What stops Mujin from copying a lot of Jo’s abilities? Or winning via infinite fairy spam + attacking too?

 

[azontr]

What stops Mujin from copying a lot of Jo’s abilities? Or winning via infinite fairy spam + attacking too?

Man's called this bro "Jo".

 

[Maitreya12]

Don’t get my ahh for goddamn autocorrect you freaking

 

[XDragnoir]

How far away is Ning's Primaltwin from the battle?

Inside a pocket dimension, which I know he can hit if he knows about it, but I want to know if he can hit it without knowing/has some passive sixth sense to warn him.

What stops Mujin from copying a lot of Jo’s abilities? Or winning via infinite fairy spam + attacking too?

The fact both start with things that may just finish their opponent for good?

How many layers does Ning's have?

Kinda hard to gauge, as there are several levels for concept hax in DE and we don't actually know if all of the lower ones also help towards resisting things, in theory they should, in practice we don't know. What we know for this key tho is more or less:

Rainwater Dao Path < Rainwater Path+Sword Dao Domain < Rainwater Path+Sword Dao Path < Waterdrop Path+SDP < Heavenly Water Path+SDP

It could be a lot higher cause Ning has other Dao Paths that he could could also fuse, in theory, as well as some doubts I have about layers, but whatever.

 

[azontr]

Inside a pocket dimension, which I know he can hit if he knows about it, but I want to know if he can hit it without knowing/has some passive sixth sense to warn him.

Mujin conveniently does have a 6th sense which alerts him of people in alternate dimensions.

Kinda hard to gauge, as there are several levels for concept hax in DE and we don't actually know if all of the lower ones also help towards resisting things, in theory they should, in practice we don't know. What we know for this key tho is more or less:

Rainwater Dao Path < Rainwater Path+Sword Dao Domain < Rainwater Path+Sword Dao Path < Waterdrop Path+SDP < Heavenly Water Path+SDP

It could be a lot higher cause Ning has other Dao Paths that he could could also fuse, in theory, as well as some doubts I have about layers, but whatever.

I could probably argue Mujin has equivalent if not better layering in this key tbf.

 

[Maitreya12]

The fact both start with things that may just finish their opponent for good?

Ok so like assuming the fight plays out past the first opening stages, who has the advantage there continuing on?

 

[XDragnoir]

Ok so like assuming the fight plays out past the first opening stages, who has the advantage there continuing on?

Bruh, like, they use their paralysis once and never more during the fight?

No idea what else Mujin can do, but Ning has way lower AP so meh.

Well, he can break from True God to Elder God at the peak of this key (that's how he won the last fight of this key), but I don't remember how strong he is upon breakthrough (iirc it's not 3B so it doesn't really help much).

 

[azontr]

I'd like to note tho that mfs like Mujin and Satan can act independent of their Core Element so paralyzing Mujin's Concept doesn't necessarily mean you're paralyzing him.

 

[Planck69]

Well, he can break from True God to Elder God at the peak of this key (that's how he won the last fight of this key), but I don't remember how strong he is upon breakthrough (iirc it's not 3B so it doesn't really help much).

He was a half-step World God after breaking through. So like, downscaling from the 3-B value.

And how does Mujin fare against the spatial lock that's an aspect of said paralysis?

 

[Maitreya12]

He was a half-step World God after breaking through. So like, downscaling from the 3-B value.

And how does Mujin fare against the spatial lock that's an aspect of said paralysis?

Can easily break free since he has cross dimensional abilities and has his own form of spatial and pocket dimension locking.

I still wanna know what Ji’s counters are to infinite fairies

 

[Rikimarox2]

I'm kinda confused on Mujin's supposed paralysis inducement of body, mind, soul, concept, information, etc... The scan just shows Mori unable to move his body, and from the looks of it, there aren't any mention of his literal concept being paralyzed? From the looks of it, due to the apparent contract which I believe is the whole thing that god imposed on humanity and altered their genetics, they aren't able to attack them, but shouldn't that just be paralysis of the body, rather than their literal concept? Also, any scans on it being layered?

 

[azontr]

I'm kinda confused on Mujin's supposed paralysis inducement of body, mind, soul, concept, information, etc... The scan just shows Mori unable to move his body, and from the looks of it, there aren't any mention of his literal concept being paralyzed? From the looks of it, due to the apparent contract which I believe is the whole thing that god imposed on humanity and altered their genetics, they aren't able to attack them, but shouldn't that just be paralysis of the body, rather than their literal concept?

It doesn't have to be mentioned- It's literally the source of power from what Mujin's abilities stem from. Read the note at the bottom of the page explaining how the Core Element functions. There was an entire CRT about this and I'm not explaining it again.

Also, any scans on it being layered?

Why should I have to provide scans when Ning supporters haven't done the same on Ning's abilities possessing layers? Doesn't seem fair.

 

[azontr]

Bump?

 

[XDragnoir]

It doesn't have to be mentioned- It's literally the source of power from what Mujin's abilities stem from. Read the note at the bottom of the page explaining how the Core Element functions. There was an entire CRT about this and I'm not explaining it again.

What kind of logic is this?

Being the source =/= being the target

A power that comes from the user's mind may affect only the target's body, or maybe only their soul, or whatever else, if you have no proof that in this particular case all of the aspects were affected why should us assume they were?

Why should I have to provide scans when Ning supporters haven't done the same on Ning's abilities possessing layers? Doesn't seem fair.

Ning's profile already have quite a few quotes about his concept lock and the Daos... And like, his profile quite literally adds "all prior to a far higher level" everywhere, not really the best way to explain shit but you can't say it isn't there.

Anyway, this is Planck's fault, there was a whole section in Ning's 3rd key explaining the gap from Lesser Daos (like the Rainwater Dao) to the Grand Daos (like the Sword Dao), so shame on you @Planck69

 

[Planck69]

Anyway, this is Planck's fault, there was a whole section in Ning's 3rd key explaining the gap from Lesser Daos (like the Rainwater Dao) to the Grand Daos (like the Sword Dao), so shame on you @Planck69

In my defense, it felt quite redundant from a indexing perspective

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Following

 

[azontr]

What kind of logic is this?

Being the source =/= being the target

A power that comes from the user's mind may affect only the target's body, or maybe only their soul, or whatever else, if you have no proof that in this particular case all of the aspects were affected why should us assume they were?

The proof is literally on the profile tho, in the blog, noted in the PnA... Mujin's abilities explicitly function via his Core Element onto others Core Element, which contains the Mind, Body, Soul, Concept, etc etc.

The proof is literally standing right in front of your ******* face.

Ning's profile already have quite a few quotes about his concept lock and the Daos... And like, his profile quite literally adds "all prior to a far higher level" everywhere, not really the best way to explain shit but you can't say it isn't there.

Anyway, this is Planck's fault, there was a whole section in Ning's 3rd key explaining the gap from Lesser Daos (like the Rainwater Dao) to the Grand Daos (like the Sword Dao), so shame on you @Planck69

I never said the abilities didn't have scans. I said the layers did not have scans.

 

[azontr]

Should I have to make the evidence more explicit on Mujin's profile or some shit? I know it's bad but it's not that bad, as the evidence is literally being pointed at you in big brackets called [See Note].

 

[azontr]

Bump.

 

[Planck69]

Mujin can probably move ahead in sheer versatility, if nothing else.

Plus, I'm hella not ****** enough to bother debating the placements lol

 

[azontr]

Plus, I'm hella not ****** enough to bother debating the placements lol

I get that brother, stay strong

 

[azontr]

Anyways-

Is that you just giving me the go to to say Mujin would go above Ji, or am I misinterpreting your meaning, Planck?

 

[Planck69]

Sure, go ahead.

 

[azontr]

Coolio. Have a blessed day.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Should I have to make the evidence more explicit on Mujin's profile or some shit? I know it's bad but it's not that bad, as the evidence is literally being pointed at you in big brackets called [See Note].

I've read the blog, and I don't think I still understand why that qualifies for concept paralysis? Can you show me/send me the paragraph that entails this?

 

[azontr]

I've read the blog, and I don't think I still understand why that qualifies for concept paralysis? Can you show me/send me the paragraph that entails this?

I guess I just need to clarify this when I rework Mujin's profile.

Mujin exerts his power through his authority as the Supreme God (shown when he breaks the Monster/Human/God contract using said authority SPECIFICALLY, he literally says it right in our face), right after paralyzing Mori.

Mujin's authority as the Supreme God is what grants him his powers (as with all Gods) as he's merged with Tathagata on a mental, spiritual, physical, and conceptual level. Meaning his authority as the Supreme God which works on a conceptual level also effects things such as his paralysis

Does this make sense?

 

[Rikimarox2]

No-

So, let me get this straight. This GOH shenanigans is annoying-
-> Mujin used his authority to break the contract that gods used on him > Since he drived his powers from authority, and since his authority managed to break the contract, which is a concept technically, all his other abilities should be conceptual as well.

Did I get it right?

If so, then I'm honestly not sure that's how it works, since I ain't knowledgeable on conceptual shit. But- Isn't that like saying if a character has magic, and his magic was shown to break concept shit, and since magic empowers him, that means all of his other abilities should automatically effect concepts as well? I feel like if this is the case, way the **** more characters will have a field trip with this, ie pretty much any mage or Universal Power System character that can affect concepts.

Regardless, as I said, I ain't knowledgeable on this shit, Planck or Ultima probably know more about it.

 

[azontr]

I feel like if this is the case, way the **** more characters will have a field trip with this, ie pretty much any mage or Universal Power System character that can affect concepts.

So can you actually argue against the premise of my argument or are you just gonna say "this seems weird"...? It's not like anybody is saying those verses SHOULDN'T get concept hax for UES shit. It's not a standard.

 

[azontr]

Hell, an example I can give that does the exact same thing as this is God of War, which scales all Magic to 4-D via similar reasoning as this.

 

[Maitreya12]

No-

So, let me get this straight. This GOH shenanigans is annoying-
-> Mujin used his authority to break the contract that gods used on him > Since he drived his powers from authority, and since his authority managed to break the contract, which is a concept technically, all his other abilities should be conceptual as well.

Did I get it right?

If so, then I'm honestly not sure that's how it works, since I ain't knowledgeable on conceptual shit. But- Isn't that like saying if a character has magic, and his magic was shown to break concept shit, and since magic empowers him, that means all of his other abilities should automatically effect concepts as well? I feel like if this is the case, way the **** more characters will have a field trip with this, ie pretty much any mage or Universal Power System character that can affect concepts.

Regardless, as I said, I ain't knowledgeable on this shit, Planck or Ultima probably know more about it.

To hopefully clarify more: the reason it’s conceptual is because the core element which is what Mujin uses to induce his paralysis, contains the individual or species’ very concept within it.

A good example is the character ‘Gaia’ who is the very embodiment of the earth. Her heart is “the earth” itself and altering her core element, fundamentally changes what “the earth” is as a whole. Gaia’s core element being “the earth” itself, devouring its body and spirit and its being altered helps show how the core element is conceptual in nature.