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The presence should be tier 0

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Artorimachi_Meteoraft

Artorimachi_Meteoraft

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I know I might get a lot of hate from this.

But I do believe the presence should be tier 0 instead of 1-A.

reasons:

1. Even though he gave his power to Elaine. He still had all his power. You can be omnipotent and give someone your power and still be omnipotent.

2. The external forces thing. I think he is trying to talk about the authors creating him. In DC no one is stronger than him. He can't beat the external forces thing because it's supposed to be us aka the real life authors.

3. About him getting killed. He probably let them kill him. An omnipotent can't die unless he wanted to. He could then bring himself to life later because he is god.

4. The overmonitor being stronger then the presence is actually non canon.

5. Him not knowing a few things. I think he is just pretending. Maybe he doesn't want others to know a few things. So he pretends to not know a few things.

I'm pretty sure the presence should be tier 0 due to all this evidence.
 
You shouldnt try to upgrade him, said in the discussion rules:

98F92051-951B-4B4F-AD5E-8D196F590519
From the franchise specific rules.
 
1. No the **** you can't. Making someone as strong as you is inherently self limiting

2. The Writer is a character in DC. Even if it was writers doing it, that is a limitation since the verse acknowledges it. See one of the reasons why Azathoth demonbane isn't tier 0

3. Cool. I cannot deny thing outright, but I'm sure someone else will

4. Based on what?

5. Do you have proof he us just pretending?
 
No wonder why people from superpower wiki hate this place.

The superpower wiki lists the presence as being omnipotent.

And you all here say he is not.

This is the one of the reasons why people from other wikis don't like this place.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
The superpower wiki is not an indexing wiki for VS matters. We play 2 different games, and they have a lot wrong with their stuff too. If all it took to prove omnipotence was a few statements than almost every ******* verse would have a tier 0 lol
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Well no fandom can be 100% accurate or good.

It's just I bring this up because the wiki here gets so much hate from other wikis.
 
You realize the two wikis aim for different things right? Powerlifting wiki is more for fun as opposed to the comparatively stricter analysis of characters we do here. They have dudes considered omnipotent that we have as tier 2s and lower, meanwhile we don't even consider our own tier 0s truly omnipotent due to the flaws inherent I .The concept of omnipotence.

To give you some perspective, could one not seem omnipotent from a human perspective as a tier 4 with very versatile reality warping and mindhax?
 
Wokistan said:
You realize the two wikis aim for different things right? Powerlifting wiki is more for fun as opposed to the comparatively stricter analysis of characters we do here. They have dudes considered omnipotent that we have as tier 2s and lower, meanwhile we don't even consider our own tier 0s truly omnipotent due to the flaws inherent I .The concept of omnipotence.

To give you some perspective, could one not seem omnipotent from a human perspective as a tier 4 with very versatile reality warping and mindhax?
Click to expand...
You mean like how humans see galactus as an omnipotent being even though he is nigh omnipotent.

Also. Shouldn't Thanos with Hotu be downgraded a bit. He only affected one universe, the abstracts he absorbed could just be M-Bodies, and the story is non-canon.

Sorry if I had to bring the Hotu thanos up when this thread has to deal with the presence
 
Heck, from a human perspective, a really powerful tier 7 could be seen as omnipotent. A complete impervious juggernaut completely unfazed by nukes and volcanic eruptions.
 
Nigh omnipotent is a rather weird phrase. Omnipotents are supposed to be utterly boundless, the truest infinity. To imply that one's able to approach such a state without already attaining it undermines the concept of omnipotence in the first place.

LB Galactus is supposed to be High 1-B from what I've heard but even starving, 4-A Galactus eho nobody would call nigh omnipotent would seem all powerful from the perspective of irl humanity.
 
Yup. I'll say what I said on the other thread, people often dislike VS wiki because the tactics they use on other sites do not work here. VS Wiki is a game of beuracracy. You do not simply win and prove you are right. You just gain support of the community and staff, and sometimes a single opinion can make or break an upgrade. While this means that some verses just simply aren't favored by this kind of system, some places are. It is neither better nor worse, just different.
 
Anyway, I feel that maybe it'll be more accepted now that some YouTube Channels use the system. In my opinion though, things won't get better until we make more of a effort on behalf of dimensional tiering.
 
Also. Shouldn't Thanos with Hotu be downgraded a bit. He only affected one universe, the abstracts he absorbed could just be M-Bodies, and the story is non-canon.

Sorry if I had to bring the Hotu thanos up when this thread has to deal with the presence
 
Sorry if this has nothing to do with the presence.

I still want to know what your opinion is on downgrading Hotu thanos.

I literally copied and pasted it on there to get your attention about it.

Sorry if I had to
 
Pokemonfan807 said:
Also. Shouldn't Thanos with Hotu be downgraded a bit. He only affected one universe, the abstracts he absorbed could just be M-Bodies, and the story is non-canon.
Sorry if I had to bring the Hotu thanos up when this thread has to deal with the presence
Click to expand...
The story being non canon wont result in a downgrade. Do you have proof of this?
 
Sorry but did you just here what I just said about Hotu thanos.

I just wanted to bring Hotu thanos up. That's all because I feel like he should be downgraded a bit.

I'm sorry if it has nothing to do with the presence.

I just wanted to bring up something else that I think should be revised
 
The story being non canon wont result in a downgrade. Do you have proof of this?

Here's your proof

Marvel's executive editor Tom Brevoort has stated that "Marvel Universe: The End" (including the "Heart Of The Universe") is in no way a part of official Marvel continuity.

Plus he only consumed a single universe.

Who knows if the abstracts he absorbed were just M bodies
 
@Pokemon

I didnt ask for proof of it being non-canon. I asked for proofs of the other stuff. Since the key is isolated and doesn't scale to his other stuff it should not matter if it is canon or not
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
@Pokemon

I didnt ask for proof of it being non-canon. I asked for proofs of the other stuff. Since the key is isolated and doesn't scale to his other stuff it should not matter if it is canon or not
Click to expand...
Okay then. I just wanted to prove that Hotu thanos is not outerversal.

Hotu at best is universal.

Plus you can't know if the abstracts he absorbed were the real ones or manifestation bodies.
 
@Pokemon

I am not the marvel expert here, so I cannot say. I cannot only speak on internal consistency and policy, but I cannot address specific facts about marvel outside of 1 or 2 heroes. You should probably make a new thread for that
 
The Presence has nothing consistently above 1-A.

In regard to HotU Thanos, I severely doubt he only effected one universe. Not only would that be a massive oversight by the guys who made the page, but having control over the universe is already granted by both the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Guanlet. He would not need HotU if it was just a universe.
 
Pokemonfan807 said:
No wonder why people from superpower wiki hate this place.
The superpower wiki lists the presence as being omnipotent.

And you all here say he is not.

This is the one of the reasons why people from other wikis don't like this place.
Click to expand...
Easy there, you don't wanna say things like that, trust me. The staffs will perma ban you.
 
HOTU was explicitly referenced multiple times in multiple comics so idk what your on about the non-canon stuff
 
As Assaltwaffle said, Pokemonfan can think what he wants of us. Our system is far from perfect, but we have built it through lots of long discussions, so we have at least tried our best. We also function very differently from other wikis, so obviously our systems are not compatible.

Btw: Please stop talking badly about BeyonderGod. We don't want any conflicts or drama, and he isn't even really doing anything bad nowadays since Google+ was shut down. In addition, he will likely inform the Fandom staff about it, and inaccurately claim that we are systematically harrassing him.
 
Well, I removed the posts to be on the safe side.
 
Anyway, for the record, I am personally leaning towards that we should modify The Presence profile to turn similar to The One Above All, with two statistics keys. One for his Vertigo portrayal, which would be 1-A, and one for regular DC Comics, which would be tier 0 based on J.M. DeMatteis' stories.

I also wish to get rid of The Writer, since I think that it is based on speculation.

However, I have been repeatedly outvoted on that front.
 
As for The Heart of the Universe, Tom Brevoort doesn't want the story to be canon, but Jim Starlin referenced it in various other in-continuity stories, so there is nothing that Tom can do about it.
 
Antvasima said:
As for The Heart of the Universe, Tom Brevoort doesn't want the story to be canon, but Jim Starlin referenced it in various other in-continuity stories, so there is nothing that Tom can do about it.
Click to expand...
Still there were things that kinda made it hard for me to believe Hotu is omniverse as we think it is
 
We do not use the omniverse term for our tiers.

Anyway, I agree that Thanos simply seemed to absorb a universe in the story, and that Jim Starlin only portrays the Living Tribunal as a universal rather than multiversal entity, but the problem is that other writers have established the Tribunal to be 1-A, so we don't have any other choice than scaling Thanos from absorbing him.
 
Antvasima said:
We do not use the omniverse term for our tiers.

Anyway, I agree that Thanos simply seemed to absorb a universe in the story, and that Jim Starlin only portrays the Living Tribunal as a universal rather than multiversal entity, but the problem is that other writers have established the Tribunal to be 1-A, so we don't have any other choice than scaling Thanos from absorbing him.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm kind of suspicious and skeptical about it
 
Well, it was an in lack of better options kind of situation.
 
Honestly though, what Yobo said about the Tiering system makes sense. We should try to explain it or even something like dimensional tiering through something like a video with illustrated scheme and images.

Numerous wiki as use videos that are even promoted by Fandom to promote their characters, topics, arguments etcetera. I don't see why we, one of the most popular wikis out there, shouldn't.
 
Well, DontTalkDT wrote the Dimensional Tiering explanation page for us. I don't see how a (likely poorly made) video would make things better.

However, a very popular Youtuber did make an explanation video a while back:

https://youtu.be/hq97eENN6K0
 
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