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The End All Be All of Fire Force Revision Threads!

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@Maitreya magically summoning dozens of unnamed Fire Force fans to support the upgrade thread
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Maitreya said:
Please for the love of god stahp I’m struggling enough as is trying to get this verse to just be Universal+

This thread’ll be crucified the minute any hint of tier 1 Fire Force comes into play so I’d like to avoid that for the time being 🗿
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ok
 
Maitreya said:
Please for the love of god stahp I’m struggling enough as is trying to get this verse to just be Universal+

This thread’ll be crucified the minute any hint of tier 1 Fire Force comes into play so I’d like to avoid that for the time being 🗿
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Noted 👍
 
Lol Cowards
If you lack even this bit of ambition for tier 1 FF, what’s the point of being human? Failure is fine, just try again several times. Even if you cannot achieve your goals in the end, so what?
 

The Current Status of the Thread:​

Since Ant has very helpfully called other staff, I’d rather not have them bogged down by 5 full pages of argumentation so I’m just going to very quickly summarize what’s going on as well as my position and the current counter position.

The Proposition:​

The current proposed scaling I have I believe to be a very simple and straightforward train of logic which I will now demonstrate.

Adolla warped reality → Adolla warped the moon → Adolla warped the stars

All a clear, straight line of scaling with the feats being presented following the showings demonstrated in the series with just 1 single ability. Just reality warping these things and changing these things from their original structures like the structure of the universe from 3D to 2D and changing the actual moon into a more cartoony moon, the same train of logic and same ability is being applied here to the stars.

Additional supporting evidence for this premise can be found in multiple statements such as this one where it’s mentioned how “the future of the stars” is on the line which clearly indicates the starts are being literally reality warped (as was shown) along with this other statement right here where it directly mentions the stars and the moon being altered along with the very physics of the universe. Because we see the moon is actually reality warped there is no reason to believe the stars would behave any differently than the moon did in this instance, especially when they are both being mentioned together as their “physics being altered.”

Note: It’s also important to mention that the opposition has already acknowledged that this feat is a valid reality warping feat across the universe as it shifted the universe from being 3D real life style to a 2D anime/manga like style. As well as the presence of other feats that would entail universal range via reality warping such as changing Pi from being insolvable to solvable as well as changing the concept of death which as established in Fire Force is a universal constant. So the premise of Universal Fire Force in terms of abilities and hax should be well supported.

The Counter Proposition:​


I will now summarize the counter position’s claims as I have done by own.

Adolla warped reality → Adolla warped the moon → Adolla created the star shaped blocks in the sky.

The counter opposition’s claim is that instead of the actual stars being reality warped across the sky, the star shaped blocks you see in the image I posted above were simply created and not actually reality warped. Reality and the moon are accepted as being reality warped by the opposition however the stars are claimed to act differently here.

I have quite a few contentions to this counter, however a big one would be the premise of this argument is adding a completely separate ability to Adolla’s kit.

The ability being mentioned here by the counter (creation) is not even an ability listed on Adolla’s profile here on vs battle wiki. When I say Adolla reality warped the stars, it’s because it’s consistent with what’s shown in the series by Adolla, it’s consistent with previous showings by Adolla, as well as being consistent with character statements about the stars in question.

This is my contention with the opposition’s proposed counter to my claim. In that it goes out of its way to be inconsistent with both what’s shown and what’s being said in the series as well as being totally irrelevant to the discussion. at that point because Adolla was already accepted as warping all of reality previously by the opposition due to a separate feat, so why would it randomly start having a cut off point all of a sudden?

Hope that kinda shortens everything down just a tad so people don’t have to look all over the CRT to find the current state of the thread. Right now we are in the midst of waiting for the opposition to even prove that Adolla has the ability creation in their arsenal in the first place which is the current state of stances right now but these are the current proposition for each side’s arguments.
 
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Maitreya said:
The ability being mentioned here by the counter (creation) is not even an ability listed on Adolla’s profile here on vs battle wiki.
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I would not treat this as a proper counter-argument due to the fact that our profiles may often be incomplete and are rarely ever "finalized". The profile currently lacking an ability does not preclude it from having said ability in the future.

Maitreya said:
When I say Adolla reality warped the stars, it’s because it’s consistent with what’s shown in the series by Adolla, it’s consistent with previous showings by Adolla, as well as being consistent with character statements about the stars in question.
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It is not unprecedented for something new to be created a result of Adolla.

The enormous eyeball object in the sky which connects to the Pillars for example is not something that previously existed in the Earth. It appeared out of thin air the moment the Cataclysm began.


(Not casting a vote either way yet. I'll see if Arc has anything extra to say)
 
I'd say that outright stating that Adolla doesn't have any creation ability is a step too far, but I do think there is a stronger case in favor of "the stars were warped"
 
Damage3245 said:
I would not treat this as a proper counter-argument due to the fact that our profiles may often be incomplete and are rarely ever "finalized". The profile currently lacking an ability does not preclude it from having said ability in the future.
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Fair but again I believe it would be on the onus to the opposition to prove that the ability is in the user’s arsenal in the first place (and to prove the creation ability extends to the range they claim it does).
Damage3245 said:
It is not unprecedented for something new to be created a result of Adolla.

The enormous eyeball object in the sky which connects to the Pillars for example is not something that previously existed in the Earth. It appeared out of thin air the moment the Cataclysm began.


(Not casting a vote either way yet. I'll see if Arc has anything extra to say)
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Ehh I don’t think that enormous eyeball was “created” either as it’s something that already exists and is part of the Adolla world



It comes forth to the Earth once the Adolla world and the real world merge together so that also wouldn’t be a product of the ability “creation” per se, but more so a product of the merging of the two worlds which continually alters reality in the series. In fact that very Eyeball you see is how Shinra and Sho enter Adolla in the first place acting as a sort of gate-way to the merging worlds.

Actually that Eye-ball appears to be Adolla itself as it’s the thing absorbing the thoughts of humanity and that eyeball is the thing Haumea sees through when she takes off her headpiece (hearing all of Humanities thoughts alongside it).

But I understand the point you are making however even if I was to take the creation ability as valid and in Adolla’s profile it wouldn’t be an equally valid interpretation to use due to the presence of reality being consistently warped via Adolla as well as other supporting statements on the matter.
 
RoyGundam said:
I'd say that outright stating that Adolla doesn't have any creation ability is a step too far, but I do think there is a stronger case in favor of "the stars were warped"
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Honestly….I really don’t think it does. Like in terms of Adolla at least I don’t think any creation ability was shown for them. It was just consistently shown and mentioned to be reality warping.

Maybe Shinrabanshoman sure, but he’s a separate character who Adolla doesn’t scale to.
 
I recommend invoking burden of rejoinder in 24 hours so we can move on.

I think it’s been 2 days, so 3 days should be enough 🤷‍♂️
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
If I don’t make it to this thread by the end of the week by all means move on without me
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Meh when a single user kidnaps a thread just because the opposition has nothing more to say and is waiting for a miracle to happen so that the CRT doesn't go through.


I'm kidding of course, but it really feels like this sometimes, I refuse to believe that people are incapable of forming a proper and well formulated opinion after reading 5 pages worth of discussion.
 
Therefir said:
Meh when a single user kidnaps a thread just because the opposition has nothing more to say and is waiting for a miracle to happen so that the CRT doesn't go through.


I'm kidding of course, but it really feels like this sometimes, I refuse to believe that people are incapable of forming a proper and well formulated opinion after reading 5 pages worth of discussion.
Click to expand...

Meat riding

Anyways no thread mods have commented here tmk so it’s not like this thread is going anywhere. I’m pretty busy atm, so I’m not forcing anyone to halt this entire thread for my sake. But if y’all want some actual progress to be made I’d recommend snagging actual thread mods, so votes can actually start being counted.

what’ll happen first, I get my response out or a thread mod shows up
 
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