The Dovahkiin vs Morgoth

[Jimboydejuan12]

Since all of the reasonings for Morgoth has been debunked, i will now ask this to be added.

Yes did same that brought Morgoth was debunked didn't start destroy the unvierse?

no hell what are talking about argument lore.

 

[MasterOfArda]

Couldn't Morgoth still the replicate the power of the Dovahkiin's artifacts?

 

[Waria_Kambang]

I never said Morgoth starts with destroying the universe. He starts with conceptual manipulation. Which, again, the Dovahkiin has no defense.

This is what you said about Morgoth's first move. He starts with conceptual manipulation, which would give the Dovahkiin time to enslave or kill him. He doesn't start by using his enemy's stolen artifacts (which i doubt he can replicate)

 

[MasterOfArda]

Power Absorption is passive.

 

[Faruel1998]

Power Absorption is passive.

you have already explained this extensively.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Power Absorption is passive.

Again, he might replicate the artifacts passively, but it would require real movement to use said stolen artifacts, right? And if the power absorbtion ability requires him to absorb artifacts first, then he can just forget it because the Staff of Magnus would just drain and absorb his power faster than what Morgoth is capable of doing (literally can drain a low 1-C artifact).

 

[MasterOfArda]

If he can drain instantly, and the Staff of Magnus can drain instantly, than it would probably be inconclusive.

Plus, you said his gear is what survives conceptual attacks. If Morgoth drains his gear and then uses conceptual manipulation he has no defense (Unless there is a diffrent defense).

 

[Ogbunabali]

He ain't touching the Daedric Artifacts.

 

[MasterOfArda]

If the Dovahkiin has Low 1-C artifacts (And by exstension hax) of course he wins. But in that case this match is a stomp like Sans vs Voldemort would be a stomp.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The artifacts aren't Low 1-C in the Dovahkiin's hands.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

If he can drain instantly, and the Staff of Magnus can drain instantly, than it would probably be inconclusive.

Plus, you said his gear is what survives conceptual attacks. If Morgoth drains his gear and then uses conceptual manipulation he has no defense (Unless there is a diffrent defense).

What i'm asking is how Morgoth's power absorbtion works. Do he need to take the artifacts inside himself to absorb it? Or what? You need to explain this.

No, the Staff of Magnus can easily drain a low 1-C artifact (Eye of Magnus) in a couple of seconds. Unless you are telling me that Morgoth can drain something that is low 1-C in nature, then he is not going to win. Again, this doesn't matter because the win condition of Bend Will shout is still valid and you need to address that first.

Yeah, not going to happen. All of Dovahkiin's artifacts that are worth mentioning are protected by their respective Daedric Princes and Divines (like Auriel's Bow and Auriel's Shield), and thus are an extension of their divine beings. Now, i would assume you already realise how powerful Daedric Princes and Divines are, so yeah, it's not going to work. I'm not saying it's low 1-C, but they sure as heck aren't going to get drained by Morgoth. This is the reason why i said i doubt his power absorbtion ability would work.

Morgoth still has a win condition (mainly death manipulation), it's not a stomp match, just a really decisive one.

 

[MasterOfArda]

1. [T]he Staff of Magnus can easily drain a low 1-C artifact

2. The artifacts aren't Low 1-C in the Dovahkiin's hands.

If 1 holds then the Dovahkiin stomps with a Low 1-C artifact. If 2 holds then the artifact can't be Low 1-C. I know you are two seperate people. I am just saying your arguements are inconsistent.

What i'm asking is how Morgoth's power absorbtion works. Do he need to take the artifacts inside himself to absorb it? Or what? You need to explain this.

To my understanding he passively warps reality, twisting everything to his will. He drains any opposing energy from it and then ensalves it.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Except it's not a stomp? A stomp thread means that Morgoth literally have no win condition, which is not true in this situation. He can still kill the Dovahkiin using his death manipulation. It's not a stomp, but rather a really, really decisive match. And no, my arguments are not inconsistent considering i've been saying that the Staff of Magnus can drain a low 1-C artifact since the beginning of this thread.

 

[Zhepar]

Low 2-C is to Daedric artifacts, Staff of Magnus is a aedric artifact

am i wrong?

 

[MasterOfArda]

Except it's not a stomp? A stomp thread means that Morgoth literally have no win condition, which is not true in this situation. He can still kill the Dovahkiin using his death manipulation. It's not a stomp, but rather a really, really decisive match.

Unless I misunderstand, does "Prisinor Metaphysics" as you call it mean that if the Dovahkiin can win he does?

And no, my arguments are not inconsistent considering i've been saying that the Staff of Magnus can drain a low 1-C artifact since the beginning of this thread.

I am saying your argument is inconsistent with Ogbunabli's.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

My vote goes to the dova for ALL the reasons stated above (damn 340 coments that i had to read)

 

[Waria_Kambang]

No, of course not. Otherwise he would already be at "the strongest characters for every tier".

 

[KongKing23]

Is there any conceptual Thu'um to resist a direct attempt to destroy a concept?

I want to clarify this part. Concepts are extensions of Godlike Beings in TES, and MK stated that they are simply indestructible as "you can't kill any idea in The Dream". All concepts and ideas are reflection of the Godhead, and directly connected to him. You may bury or modify an idea or a concept via Tonal Magic, Walking Ways, CHIM and plethfora of hax that commonly required from Low 1-C to 1-A to work. You can't absolutely erase any idea or concept, which it can be seen why Daedric Princes have True Immortality and 1-A level of regen (Check any Daedric Prince profile to see why).

The only way of directly "destroy" a concept in TES is having 1-A level of Numidium. The World-Denial. I mean you have to have that specific hax, not just being an 1-A god alone.

 

[MyGod101]

I must ask do anyone have a Link, and interview from Lore Master on why the Elder scrolls lore is important and shouldn't be dismissed as Hyperbole?

 

[KongKing23]

Go to Matthew profile to find his blog on canonicity

 

[MyGod101]

Go to Matthew profile to find his blog on canonicity

I tried but I didn't find any. I'll look again those.

 

[Phoenix821]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/The_Elder_Scrolls:_Consistency_%26_Cano Here.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

Nah already over a month we should close Thread?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yes it seems that the win goes to the Dova, so this should get added

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Yes it seems that the win goes to the Dova, so this should get added

This has been added to both of their profile by me.

 

[Hsharpe]

I feel like a rematch for this needs to be made. Because True Form Morgoth has been upgraded to Low 1-C (and is awaiting further revision for 1-A due to R>F Transcendence), while Dragonborn DLC Dova is still stuck at Low 2-C.

Not to mention, this already exists:

Powers and Resistances of the Ainur

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.Ainulindalë: The Music of the Ainur The Ainur are the primordial angelic spirits made by Eru Ilúvatar in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

And all LOTR characters have received the following:

• Acausality (Type 2, Type 4 for the True Form Ainur, and likely Type 5 for Eru)
• Resistance to Mind Manipulation (specifically mental penetration)
• Resistance to Soul Manipulation (specifically soul destruction and absorption)

I'm not sure of Dova is undergoing his own revisions, but...

 

[AThe1412]

I feel like a rematch for this needs to be made. Because True Form Morgoth has been upgraded to Low 1-C (and is awaiting further revision for 1-A due to R>F Transcendence), while Dragonborn DLC Dova is still stuck at Low 2-C.

Not to mention, this already exists:

Powers and Resistances of the Ainur

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.Ainulindalë: The Music of the Ainur The Ainur are the primordial angelic spirits made by Eru Ilúvatar in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

And all LOTR characters have received the following:

• Acausality (Type 2, Type 4 for the True Form Ainur, and likely Type 5 for Eru)
• Resistance to Mind Manipulation (specifically mental penetration)
• Resistance to Soul Manipulation (specifically soul destruction and absorption)

I'm not sure of Dova is undergoing his own revisions, but...

Bro, did you just necro a 5 year old thread over an outdated match that you can just request to be removed from the character's profile?

 

[Hsharpe]

Bro, did you just necro a 5 year old thread over an outdated match that you can just request to be removed from the character's profile?

Wait the thread was that old?

My bad, man.

Edit: Oh god I just checked the dates on the replies, it really is that old.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Bro, did you just necro a 5 year old thread over an outdated match that you can just request to be removed from the character's profile?

Reminder that we don't consider bumping old Vs Threads as necros anymore:

Please do not bump topics that have been inactive for over 3 months without a legitimate argument, and entirely avoid bumping topics that have been concluded. However, we make exceptions for versus threads. There is no exact time limit as long as the characters in question are not outdated.

However, as the characters are indeed very outdated by this point, I will be closing this

Edit: For Versus Threads Removals, ask Here