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The old votes are valid because literally nothing has changed.
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The Dovahkiin vs Morgoth
- Thread starter EmperorRorepmeThree
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well guess again people pick off voted.
start what could do compare both Dovahkiin and Morgoth.
how far AP level?
how far Durability level?
How far Speed level?
start what could do compare both Dovahkiin and Morgoth.
how far AP level?
how far Durability level?
How far Speed level?
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im voted Dovahkiin FRA.
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Dovahkiin starts with Bend Will and mindhaxes Morgoth, and Morgoth starts with destroying the universe, which does nothing to the Dovahkiin.Jimboydejuan12 said:
Both are Low 2-C. Don't know how high Morgoth is but Dovahkiin is very high up there. Although the AP doesn't matter.
Same for Durability.
Same speed. Both are Immeasurable.
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yep whatever Dovahkiin is pretty High Low 2-C our no such like Morgoth.
Alright now do?
Alright now do?
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Now we wait for a counter argument. If there is none, we will request this matchup to be added.Jimboydejuan12 said:
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checked profiles Dovah and Morgoth both ton of Haxes.
sure not.
sure not.
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Is there a reason why Morgoth can't replicate all of the Dovahkiin's powers with power absorption?
Because if not I really can't see how the Dovahkiin could win this.
Because if not I really can't see how the Dovahkiin could win this.
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Well because the Dovahkiin doesn't have "powers" aside from from his magic spells, which wouldn't do anything for Morgoth. He can't steal the Thu'um because it's not something that can be "stolen" that's just singing to the song of creation, anyone can do it potentially but you need understanding in order to use it, so Morgoth ain't stealing that.
Not to mention that Dovahkiin mindhaxes, and I thought you said Morgoth starts with destroying the universe? How come every time a point is refuted he starts with something else?
Not to mention that Dovahkiin mindhaxes, and I thought you said Morgoth starts with destroying the universe? How come every time a point is refuted he starts with something else?
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- Thread starter
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I never said Morgoth starts with destroying the universe. He starts with conceptual manipulation. Which, again, the Dovahkiin has no defense.Ogbunabali said:
And I never said he would start with power absorption. Power Absorption is something he does passively.
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He wouldn't have the chance to absorb it because by the time he is done destroying the universe, Bend Will shout would have already mindhax him. And yes, it can affect Morgoth since the final word of Bend Will shout is the reaso why we can even surpass Miraak's strength in the first place, which is noted by Hermaeus Mora in his dialogue.MasterOfArda said:
Edit: Just realised you said that he does it passively, but it still won't work since you need to steal Dovahkiin's knowledge to replicate it.
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I never said Morgoth starts with destroying the universe. He starts with conceptual manipulation. Which, again, the Dovahkiin has no defense.
And I never said he would start with power absorption. Power Absorption is something he does passively.
The Dovahkiin literally fought against dragons and Alduin who uses conceptual manipulation on a daily basis. Again i say, the Thu'um basically manipulate the inner tones, which shape all of reality. This include concepts. He tank conceptual attacks all the time.
And I never said he would start with power absorption. Power Absorption is something he does passively.
The Dovahkiin literally fought against dragons and Alduin who uses conceptual manipulation on a daily basis. Again i say, the Thu'um basically manipulate the inner tones, which shape all of reality. This include concepts. He tank conceptual attacks all the time.
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Again, the Dovahkiin does not have conceptual resistence. He has information resistence. If the pages are really that messed up then a revision needs to happen before this thread continues.
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You said that the Dovahkiin's doesn't have conceptual manipulation while giving no reason. I'm not saying that he has information manipulation that manipulate things at conceptual level, i'm saying that the Thu'um is a literal conceptual manipulation. It manipulate the inner tones which shape all of reality including things such as concept. I already give you the reason why the Thu'um is a conceptual manipulation, so kindly give yours.MasterOfArda said:
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Just manipulating reality is reality warping. Was he ever explicitly shown creating and/or destroying a concept like Morgoth (Specfically Discord).
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Uh, it literally impose the concept of mortality toward an Immortal being.MasterOfArda said:
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That's just deat/life manipulation at a very strong level.
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No, Alduin literally doesn't have the concept of mortality at all.MasterOfArda said:
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Arda this is just denial at this point. Someone request to add this match it's been going on long enough.
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Can I see a quote or something on how Thu'um works? I am confused.
I thought Dragonrend forces to Dragon to become mortal by making them understand mortality, or does it simply outright make them mortal?
I thought Dragonrend forces to Dragon to become mortal by making them understand mortality, or does it simply outright make them mortal?
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The Thu'um is actually Tonal Architecture. And Tonal Architecture is basically altering the song of Aurbis. The Aurbis is the interplay of Anu and Padomay and it is the whole of reality residing of which include Aetherius, Oblivion, Mundus, and of course, Nirn. Aurbis is the everything in the Elder Scrolls universe and it is described like a song, while in the real world everything has particles and sub particles, in the Elder Scrolls everything, both physical and metaphysical, is comprised of "musical notes" or "tunes". Tonal Architecture, and by extension the Thu'um, allows one to control and manipulate this "tunes" of which encompass everything from the grass, to concepts themselves.
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Thank you.
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You just explained this better than i can ever possibly able to. So, Arda, do we agree that the Dovahkiin resist conceptual manipulation?Ogbunabali said:
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Before I agree I still have a question:
Does this mean that not all Thu'um is conceptual manipulation? If so, which Thu'um are?
| Tonal Architecture, and by extension the Thu'um, allows one to control and manipulate this "tunes" of which encompass everything from the grass, to concepts themselves. |
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Not all Thu'um it's conceptual. Like Elemental Fury is just a stat amp for instance.
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Then what Thu'um is conceptual, and which did the Dovahkiin resist.
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Every Thu'um the Dovahkiin has he has resistance to. And of the top of my head the Time Stop, Bend Will and Dragonrend is. Don't remember what else he has I would need to check.
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Things like Dragonrend and Bend Will is conceptual. It's implied that the Dovahkiin can resist the effect of Bend Will shout in the Dragonborn DLC. And i'm pretty sure that Slow time shout is also conceptual, though, i'm not entirely sure.MasterOfArda said:
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Is there any conceptual Thu'um to resist a direct attempt to destroy a concept?
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Pretty sure Morgoth has never destroyed a concept.
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Well, corrupt it. Basically altering it into whatever Morgoth wants.
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As far as i'm aware, Dovahkiin's body naturally resist conceptual manipulation. He doesn't need to use the Thu'um to resist conceptual manipulation.
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Since all of the reasonings for Morgoth has been debunked, i will now ask this to be added.
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I think you misunderstood. That was poor wording on my part.Waria Kambang said:
Just because he can resist conceptual manipulation as time stop, has he ever resisted a direct attack at his concept?
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I think you misunderstood. That was poor wording on my part.
Just because he can resist conceptual manipulation as time stop, has he ever resisted a direct attack at his concept?
He wear Savior's Hide which, with the rest of the gears, has been shown to be able to survive attacks from a bloodlusted Mehrunes Dagon, who have conceptual manipulation far above anything Morgoth can throw at the Dovahkiin. I'm pretty sure that is more impressive than anything Morgoth has ever done. And Morgoth start with destroying the universe by attacking it's concept, he doesn't start by attacking the Dovahkiin's concept.
Just because he can resist conceptual manipulation as time stop, has he ever resisted a direct attack at his concept?
He wear Savior's Hide which, with the rest of the gears, has been shown to be able to survive attacks from a bloodlusted Mehrunes Dagon, who have conceptual manipulation far above anything Morgoth can throw at the Dovahkiin. I'm pretty sure that is more impressive than anything Morgoth has ever done. And Morgoth start with destroying the universe by attacking it's concept, he doesn't start by attacking the Dovahkiin's concept.
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The Dovahkiin definitely resists an attack on it's actual concept. The Prisoner is a constant in TES it definitely isn't being destroyed anytime soon.
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Who is Mehrunes Dagon and how is his conceptual manipulation any stronger than Morgoth's.
Also, Morgoth doesn't start with destryoing the universe.
And, can the Dovahkiin resist passive power absorption?
Also, Morgoth doesn't start with destryoing the universe.
And, can the Dovahkiin resist passive power absorption?
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A Daedric Prince. Trust me, they are far stronger than Morgoth is. Just look for one of them in this wiki.MasterOfArda said:
And like EmperorRorepme said, the Dovahkiin nature is that of the Prisoner, a cosmic constant in TES, so Morgoth ain't destroying that.
We've been over this power absorbtion argument, the Thu'um is not something that you can steal. Read Ogbunabali's argument (reply 292).
Edit: Anyway, i'm going to sleep.
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