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How would souls be effected by the universe being destroyed? With the 3-A argument, the only damage to the universe would be physical, which shouldn't do anything to a soul.
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The Battle of Gods (Part 2)
- Thread starter PowerToScale
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An immeasurable speed character could physically travel to the Kaioshin Realm, which no one in Dragon Ball is.Akreious said:
Refer to the above where Crystalline Structures are treated as full-fledged Timelines in Xenoverse and Heroes, so the precident is there.
Did you just use Xenoverse, which is non-canon to try to argue an upgrade for DBS? Also that's just an aesthetic choice.
... Wot? No? There's still the whole problem where their "3-A" feat was going to destroy the afterlife in it's entirety. If they don't get Low 2-C, we will have to add NPI to their profiles for being able to destroy the entire afterlife then.
Also that isn't the only argument in the OP for Tier 2, why are you saying as if "debunking" a single point somehow invalidates everything else?
No because destroying the afterlife doesn't mean they're destroying the souls along with it, it's just destroying the place that holds them. And even then, that would indeed just be NPI and not a Low 2-C feat as destroying souls has nothing to do with space-time.
The other arguments for tier 2 were also refuted, but I guess you weren't paying attention to that.
Why? Because you said so?
No because it's a moot point.
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"An immeasurable speed character could physically travel to the Kaioshin Realm, which no one in Dragon Ball is."
Isn't immeasurable speed like time travel? How would that let you get to a place that is spatially separated from where you originally are?
Isn't immeasurable speed like time travel? How would that let you get to a place that is spatially separated from where you originally are?
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Is it ever said that the souls would be destroyed, as opposed to the land they live on?
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Old Kai and Supreme Kai were saying their prayers. If their souls weren't going to be destroyed then they wouldn't be acting as if everything is doomed as they'd merely get Halos as Old Kai did when he gave his life to revive Goku.The real cal howard said:
And from there they can just remake the Universe. Of course, slowly, but it's literally their jobs to create.
It's sort of the whole gig where death sort of has no meaning anymore in Dragon Ball since they can just be revived by the next year at the very latest, or in this case just... wait as the Kais work their butts off to make the Universe again.
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It states in the same scan, "Its a is a special realm completely seperate from the macrocosm that the afterlife, universe, and demon realm are all enclosed within".
Not only that but the afterlife, which is its own space-time is also covered in a Crystalline Sphere.
Not only that but the afterlife, which is its own space-time is also covered in a Crystalline Sphere.
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@DragonEmperor An immeasurable character's movement wouldn't be bound by conventional space-time.
@PowerToScale The Afterlife is not its own space-time, and that statement is coming from Goku plus it even says after that it's unclear what it entails.
@PowerToScale The Afterlife is not its own space-time, and that statement is coming from Goku plus it even says after that it's unclear what it entails.
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Doesn't that make the analogy invalid then? The point of it was to come up with a way of getting to the Kaioshin Realm without needing to mess up or ignore space-time, right?ShadowWarrior1999 said:
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@DragonEmperor My point is simply that physical travel to the Kaioshin Realm being impossible doesn't mean jack.
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What are you defining physical travel as?
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Just because Goku says it doesn't mean he is wrong. Goku states that he isn't able to keep up the super saiyan 3 form because of the different times of the afterlife and living world. So he is wrong and it only can last for for short while for an unknown reason.
[https://i8.***********.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71961.jpg https://i8.***********.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71961.jpg
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[https://i8.***********.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71961.jpg https://i8.***********.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71961.jpg
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@PowerToScale That just means time flows differently in the afterlife. Having a different flow of time doesn't mean it's a separate space-time continuum, it's simply an anomaly.
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BTW, just letting everyone know, majority of the scans in the OP have the 4 galaxy statements used, which is retconned to high hell given Jaco references how there's countless galaxies in DBS. Also put me in disagree with this upgrade here for Sera's and Ultima's reasons.
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Theglassman12
There are 4 quadrants of galaxies in the dragon ball universe and of those quadrants there are shown to be many galaxies within them.
so the claim of four galaxies is completely false even going by z's statements.
There are 4 quadrants of galaxies in the dragon ball universe and of those quadrants there are shown to be many galaxies within them.
so the claim of four galaxies is completely false even going by z's statements.
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That's what he basically said, there's no need to repeat that.
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That wasn't my point. I said that the majority of the scans used in the OP has the 4 Galaxy quotes rather than the 4 quadrants, which I said was retconned to hell. So therefore they shouldn't even be used as reliable sources when it's retconned.
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@Akreious again, explain to me how that disproves the point that majority of the scans in the OP is wrong cause it's using statements that are blatantly retconned.
@Missy Yes they were. Look through the scans in the OP. They literally say galaxies instead of quadrants.
@Missy Yes they were. Look through the scans in the OP. They literally say galaxies instead of quadrants.
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Theglassman12
There was not even a mention of the 4 quadrants in the op so what are you talking about.
There was not even a mention of the 4 quadrants in the op so what are you talking about.
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"The east, west, south and north [section] of the universe actually govern these galaxies" Called the sections of the universe and govern galaxies in these sections. States that there exists infinite galaxies and beacuse of this they were split into the sections
"The four Kaiou rule over the east, west, south and north [sections] f the universe" Again, reffered to to sections of the universe.
"Means each region of the universe, which is divided into east, west, south, north" called regions and even mentions the kaio governing them again.
" The sections known as the East-West-North-South Galaxies only utilize Kami as administration units, and the lifeforms who reside in the Living World are able to freely travel the galaxies. Of course, that is supposing they have the technology..." The sections east, west, south and north are known as galaxies, not that they are actual galaxies
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- #184
@ShadowWarrior1999
The afterlife having a different space and different flow of time makes it a different space-time continuum
The afterlife having a different space and different flow of time makes it a different space-time continuum
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No, that is not remotely how it works.PowerToScale said:
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@ShadowWarrior1999
If one space-time continuum has a this space and this flow of time, while another has a different space and different flow of time, it makes them different space-times.
Like the ROSAT, the room and universe outside of the room do not share the same space. The flow of time is different, since one day outside is equal to 3 days inside. This would make them different space-times continuums. Regardless of what size they are, they would still be different.
This is the same with the afterlife, since they have different spaces and different flows of time, this would make them different space-times continuums.
If one space-time continuum has a this space and this flow of time, while another has a different space and different flow of time, it makes them different space-times.
Like the ROSAT, the room and universe outside of the room do not share the same space. The flow of time is different, since one day outside is equal to 3 days inside. This would make them different space-times continuums. Regardless of what size they are, they would still be different.
This is the same with the afterlife, since they have different spaces and different flows of time, this would make them different space-times continuums.
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@PowerToScale They're shown to be blatantly part of the same universe, a realm within the universe having a different flow of time is not valid evidence of being a separate space-time continuum.
The ROSAT is just an Earth-sized pocket dimension.
The ROSAT is just an Earth-sized pocket dimension.
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Did you not bother to read the scans in the OP, cause there are links in the OP that says those very things.Missy0124 said:
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No.Ted Ed said:
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@ShadowWarrior1999
Realms in universes can still have their own space-times, different space and time flow than the universe around it. Another example I can think of is the demon realm.
Realms in universes can still have their own space-times, different space and time flow than the universe around it. Another example I can think of is the demon realm.
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@PowerToScale Which requires proper evidence that you haven't provided.
And no the Demon Realm is not one either.
And no the Demon Realm is not one either.
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Replace those 4 galaxy scans with the quadrants, cause those are extremely out of date.PowerToScale said:
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@ShadowWarrior1999
"The living world is split into two dimensions as being like the two sides of sides of a coin" and "The bottom half is the Demon Realm, where magic has more sway than science" and "Despite the two dimensioins being polar opposites"
The Demon Realm is mentioned multiple times to be a different dimension in the living world. Where magic has more sway than science. Whereas the universe is run by science. It is also said that the Demon Realm is like the ROSAT (which is different from the universe).
"The living world is split into two dimensions as being like the two sides of sides of a coin" and "The bottom half is the Demon Realm, where magic has more sway than science" and "Despite the two dimensioins being polar opposites"
The Demon Realm is mentioned multiple times to be a different dimension in the living world. Where magic has more sway than science. Whereas the universe is run by science. It is also said that the Demon Realm is like the ROSAT (which is different from the universe).
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Ahem...
Also the stuff Zamasu brought up earlier with the Vice Shout supports it being a 4D feat.LordTracer said:
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More importantly, this thread's arguments are getting redundant.
We all know U7 is a time-space. If you look at the map, every realm, including the Realm of the Kais located outside the universe are part of that time-space. The Realm of the Kais is just located outside of normal space via fantasy magic-think. That doesn't mean the only thing connecting it to the rest of U7 is time. Do you not understand that's objectively not how time-space works? I'll explain it in three-dimensional terms.
Looks at this cube:
The entire cube would be the temporal background of the time-space. Every realm within that cube is flat, even if they are spatially disconnected, their nature is the same. Even if in one of those realms within the cube have a different perspective of the cube, the nature is still the same, it's flat. Two characters (flat within the cube) are fighting and creating shockwaves (also flat) that can travel within the dimensions inside the cube (flat) and affect all the other realms in the cube (again, flat). No matter how many two-dimensional planes get destroyed across a three-dimensional structure, it will never threaten the three-dimensional background of that structure. Same logic applies to three-dimensional physical and non-physical magicthink-induced collateral damage within a four-dimensional environment. All the damage in U7 happened within the time-space at the level of the third dimension.
Alternate dimensions, other realms, and pocket realities are by their very nature inaccessible to normal space. They are spatially disconnected, but not only connected through time. That's not how it works. You can't suggest that multiplying 3D by any number of times reaches the level of 4D through spatial disconnection. Even High 3-A feats can be done within a Low 2-C range, but if time (the fourth dimension necessary for Low 2-C) was not significantly affected, it doesn't count. Simply because some god in his cozy little realm outside the normal space of his universe was afraid he'd also bite the dust, doesn't mean the entire time-space was being threatened since they explicitly said the entire cosmos (zenuchuu) was in danger and Dragon Ball accurately distinguishes "cosmos" from "time-space" as evidenced by both the Cell and Goku Black sagas, as well as Heroes and Xenoverse.
If the Gods were four-dimensional beings viewing the rest of U7 as spatially flat, the their worries would definitely imply Low 2-C destruction. But they are not.
We all know U7 is a time-space. If you look at the map, every realm, including the Realm of the Kais located outside the universe are part of that time-space. The Realm of the Kais is just located outside of normal space via fantasy magic-think. That doesn't mean the only thing connecting it to the rest of U7 is time. Do you not understand that's objectively not how time-space works? I'll explain it in three-dimensional terms.
Looks at this cube:
The entire cube would be the temporal background of the time-space. Every realm within that cube is flat, even if they are spatially disconnected, their nature is the same. Even if in one of those realms within the cube have a different perspective of the cube, the nature is still the same, it's flat. Two characters (flat within the cube) are fighting and creating shockwaves (also flat) that can travel within the dimensions inside the cube (flat) and affect all the other realms in the cube (again, flat). No matter how many two-dimensional planes get destroyed across a three-dimensional structure, it will never threaten the three-dimensional background of that structure. Same logic applies to three-dimensional physical and non-physical magicthink-induced collateral damage within a four-dimensional environment. All the damage in U7 happened within the time-space at the level of the third dimension.
Alternate dimensions, other realms, and pocket realities are by their very nature inaccessible to normal space. They are spatially disconnected, but not only connected through time. That's not how it works. You can't suggest that multiplying 3D by any number of times reaches the level of 4D through spatial disconnection. Even High 3-A feats can be done within a Low 2-C range, but if time (the fourth dimension necessary for Low 2-C) was not significantly affected, it doesn't count. Simply because some god in his cozy little realm outside the normal space of his universe was afraid he'd also bite the dust, doesn't mean the entire time-space was being threatened since they explicitly said the entire cosmos (zenuchuu) was in danger and Dragon Ball accurately distinguishes "cosmos" from "time-space" as evidenced by both the Cell and Goku Black sagas, as well as Heroes and Xenoverse.
If the Gods were four-dimensional beings viewing the rest of U7 as spatially flat, the their worries would definitely imply Low 2-C destruction. But they are not.
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This is a misconception. It's not a retcon, it's a slight translation error. Galaxy and Galaxies translates to one word in Japanese, so what was intended to be written was North Galaxies, East Galaxies etc. Even if that one peat was wrong, it's an association fallacy to assume it's all wrong.Theglassman12 said:
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