Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 5

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No, spirits are born the same time as their concepts.

 

[NeoSuperior]

No, spirits are born the same time as their concepts.

I fail to see how that has any relevance in regards to being a type 2 or 3 concept, since the difference in types is less about the actual embodiments (Great Spirits), but rather how the concept interacts with its own instances, e.g. would eradicating all fire in the multiverse aside from the the Great Spirit of Fire itself cause it and the concept of Fire to disappear? If yes, it's type 3, if no it's type 2. At least that's how I understood it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So what proof is there that's it type 2 then?

Great spirits birth causes their respective concepts to exist, great spirit of time is born, time now exists, that's all we know, so what proves type 2?

The default assumption for concept manipulation is type 3, you will have to provide evidence to the contrary.

 

[NeoSuperior]

That's exactly why I asked for the chapter number where the Spirit that destroys everything is mentioned. And while we are at it, might as well check the one where Rimuru ate an angel.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

From chapter 62:

"A spirit is… "In nothingness power finds its fill. That is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, light and darkness, the two great spirits. Who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, a ephemeral existence. Light and shadow, darkness and the light. Two existences that shall never interweave. One day, the great spirit time was born. The child of light and darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death, Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky―these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world."

That's all there is, nothing important is mentioned when rimuru ate an angel.

Already have a blog going over this stuff like this.

 

[Elizhaa]

Now, I think about it there is line in Conceptual Manipulation Type 3 that important for the distinction of Type 2 and 3:

• These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept.

• These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract Aristotelian Concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality.

I don't think it was ever mentioned they were bound at all, what killed the Spirits, was the new spirit.

At the very least, The great holy spirit is the source of power could a Type 2 concept as it exist independently of all before all some might say it transcend reality. I think the others scale as they are not implied to of lower existence and especially the new spirit spirit who killed everything.

Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 could be a thing.

• 2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. These concepts interact with their objects in the same manner as listed above. In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown.

Honestly, I think we should assume the default assumption for concept manipulation is type 2 unless if these conditions are valid: These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept.

I honestly don't see these spirits being bounded by what they represent and if I think it required to show that they are bound by their concepts to prove Type 3, objectively speaking.

I guess a CRT could be the best way to finish the topic.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It wasn't mentioned that they weren't bounded by said concepts, i am just going with what was said and the default assumption.

Either way if you think it's a big deal go make a crt or ask assalt or kaltias since they are the ones who know about type 2 concept manipulation.

I am sort of fatigued of all these tensei upgrade threads.

 

[Elizhaa]

i am just going with what was said and the default assumption > Default assumption is not always accurate, just by reading the definitions and knowing their proposed Concepts feat, they look not said to be bounded and more than likely Type 2. I am being as neutral as possible on this point.

Also, I helped upgrade Wizard 101's Conceptual Manipulation to Type 2 by showing Zenkai they Abstract Entities qualifiees for Type 2 with a similar points. I will take the advice make a CRT or ask assalt or kaltias

I asked Kaltias and made the thread: Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Conceptual Manipulation

 

[Elizhaa]

I think this other CRT is straightforward: Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Disintegration Revision

 

[NeoSuperior]

I only brought it up due to the recent big VS thread, I realized how similar the "Storm Titan" (type 2 concept) was to the Great Spirits (type 3 concept). It's strange how such a feat https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2806869 , that's often a one-liner and often not even directly bound to the characters in a battle/getting an upgrade themselves, but rather some "conceptual being who fights against the character in question", can have such decisive influence on the outcome of various VS battles.

Moreover it doesn't really match the description in the Concept Manipulation page. An analogy: Imagine two Gods A and B. While God A can exist regardless of his followers' faith or even existence, God B can't and instead just disappears if he loses all his believers one way or another. Somehow this proves that God A "transcends reality"? No, it doesn't. The only thing he transcends are limitations of himself, not "reality". That's appearently the decisive difference between type 2 and type 3. The current rule seems more like the weaker party of the comparison having more weaknesses (being an unstable existence) rather than the stronger party having more advantages ("transcending reality"). That's not what the description says though.

Unless there is something big that I have been missing this entire time, then one or the other must be modified. Either take back the rule about whether the "feedback" of the concept losing it's own instancances becomes the decisive factor that differentiates types 2 and 3 from each other, or remove the "transcend reality" bit from the type 2 description.


EDIT: Wait, isn't that just type 4? Now it makes even less sense.

 

[Elizhaa]

The rule suggested the Concept must be bounded and affected by what it represents by what it represents for Type 3, transcend reality is probably within these context.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Just a thought, but could it be that the Voice of the World was preventing anyone from obtaining Turn Null? Veldanava was unable to recreate it again and Yuuki couldn't do so either, but Rimuru obtained it almost immdietely after Ciel isolated him from the Voice of the World.

And going along that thought, could the "new antagonist" in the LN turn out to be the Voice of the World? It didn't really get any resolution to itself in the WN after all. IIRC the last time it even got mentioned aside from the Veldanava flashback was in the fight against Draguel when Shion obtained her Ultimate Skill.

 

[Elizhaa]

Perhaps, it would be a real interesting possibilities in WN, NeoSuperior!

 

[Sheska444]

Just a thought, but could it be that the Voice of the World was preventing anyone from obtaining Turn Null? Veldanava was unable to recreate it again and Yuuki couldn't do so either, but Rimuru obtained it almost immdietely after Ciel isolated him from the Voice of the World.

And going along that thought, could the "new antagonist" in the LN turn out to be the Voice of the World? It didn't really get any resolution to itself in the WN after all. IIRC the last time it even got mentioned aside from the Veldanava flashback was in the fight against Draguel when Shion obtained her Ultimate Skill.

voice of the world as the final boss huh ? hmm... that would be really interesting

 

[Doomrider7]

I'm legit curious as to how the author is gonna change things up. I remember there was a post mentioning something about a "Nuclear Dimension" and Azathoth from the Lovecraft Mythos and would ******* be RAD to see Rimuru claim that kind of power.

 

[Elizhaa]

Lol, I don't think Rimuru will ever become 1-A!

 

[Elizhaa]

Neat, it looks like LN Shizue have a Tier 6 or country level feat: Defeated a dragon that was ranked as a Calamity Class, which is S-ranked [vol1ch3]. These are LN feats.

• Rank
• Source

 

[Doomrider7]

Lol, I don't Rimuru will ever become 1-A!

LET ME DREAM DAMMIT!!! Jokes aside, wasn't there a post mentioning something about how the Nihility Energy came from a Nuclear Dimension and someone offhandedly mentioned that Azathoth resides in such a dimension? Can't recall who it was, but it was a few threads ago. Wanna say the 3rd or so. It would definetly be dope as hell and yeah I recall the dragon bit with Shizu.

 

[OpMasada]

Lol, I don't Rimuru will ever become 1-A!

LET ME DREAM DAMMIT!!! Jokes aside, wasn't there a post mentioning something about how the Nihility Energy came from a Nuclear Dimension and someone offhandedly mentioned that Azathoth resides in such a dimension? Can't recall who it was, but it was a few threads ago. Wanna say the 3rd or so. It would definetly be dope as hell and yeah I recall the dragon bit with Shizu.

Yeah, but nothin's explained about it other than it was from some odd dimension.

 

[GLHF22]

I m the person you searching for

 

[Sheska444]

LET ME DREAM DAMMIT!!! Jokes aside, wasn't there a post mentioning something about how the Nihility Energy came from a Nuclear Dimension and someone offhandedly mentioned that Azathoth resides in such a dimension? Can't recall who it was, but it was a few threads ago. Wanna say the 3rd or so. It would definetly be dope as hell and yeah I recall the dragon bit with Shizu.

I don't think it's necessary for rimuru to become 1-A , myb it's nice an all but why would he become 1-A?

 

[GLHF22]

In Myth Nuclear Dimension is the place where Azathoth resides, its center of existence. In otherwords, its the place of every Ultimate Outer Gods, and WN never explain This Dimension, and author said he Will change the final Villain and final Arc so we get the posibility.

 

[GLHF22]

anyway, Probably i Will barely visit this site until june, even though i want to create CRT regarding afterstory, i have a lot thing to do IRL, hope i Will not too busy.

 

[Sheska444]

Lol, I don't think Rimuru will ever become 1-A!

The only certainty thing about the future is uncertainty .

thus 1-A is nthn , even 0 is possible for someone like rimuru . cthulhu mumbo wumbo is no joke after all .

Ever since there's this thing called [space pirates] , I'd dare to say that at this point even straw hat pirates - one piece might be able to reach high 4-c with ease lol it'd be like toppa tengen gurren lagann . Deus le volt! fam

 

[Sheska444]

What the--



Rimuru face kinda reminds me of a certain thing from FMA


Edward face... that's Exactly my face right now pfftt you crack me up Rimruru! what the Hell lmfao

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Where is this from?

Also episode 25 was a big disappointment, a lot of the veldora diaries was skipped.

 

[Sheska444]

Where is this from?

Also episode 25 was a big disappointment, a lot of the veldora diaries was skipped.

here's the link for chap 55 .

yep , ep 25 completely butchered "veldora slime observation journal" into pieces and the animation in the background also didn't sync with the veldora and ifrit commentaries whatsoever . mind = blown

 

[Sheska444]

this chap 55 also kinda underwehelming imo , I was expecting for rimuru gluttony [rage mode] devouring everthn on sight including the forest and the environment into nthnness but... nthn special happened aside from rimuru tucker's fabulous chimera face lolol

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well rimuru vs hinata round 1 is over, that means the harvest festival is coming.

 

[Sheska444]

Where is this from?

Also episode 25 was a big disappointment, a lot of the veldora diaries was skipped.

I think the anime skipped many stuff for a reason , myb the manga didn't allow the anime to adapt the real veldora slime observstion journal or smthn. but why? hmmn

this is really weird , the anime I mean veldora at the very least could've easily explained voice of the world in this ep . but nope , nthn at all Ó░á_Ó░á Im so perplexed .

hopefully they won't screw up again in the next season , at least they should keep the screw up stuff at reasonable level(Ôÿì´╣ÅÔü░)

 

[Doomrider7]

What the--

Rimuru face kinda reminds me of a certain thing from FMA


Edward face... that's Exactly my face right now pfftt you crack me up Rimruru! what the Hell lmfao

Where's that Slime picture from?

 

[Sheska444]

here's the link son tensura chap 55

 

[Sheska444]

I hope I can time travel.. a month is far too long , a year is much longer than that xP It's time to hibernate I guess Zzz

 

[Elizhaa]

Powerful monsters like velzard and semi-demon lord seeds can alter the environment with their aura, is there an ability name for that?

I think I found supporting evidence in

Slime 273:

Although the surrounding is covered with hills, on the other side of it are mountains and deserts.

If you head for the center, then you will be faced with mountains and if you head for the edge then you will find deserts.

And there, each of the rulers should be present. Or rather, because of them and their leaking aura, the terrain transformed into this abnormal environment.

Source: https://www.asianhobbyist.com/slime-273/

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Vol 14 illustration, apparently the white hair girl is velzard, pretty disappointing considering what velgrynd looks like.

 

[Elizhaa]

Celestial Pegasus, at least, she is the cute sister.

 

[Elizhaa]

Turn out Rimuru was a self-proclaimed Demon Lord duringhis first fight with Hinata

• https://imgur.com/a/qvxPYyV
  • WN Chapter 66: https://www.readlightnovel.org/tensei-shitara-slime-datta-ken-wn/chapter-66

Rimuru's power was also weakened and it was not just his skills being restricted.

• https://imgur.com/a/nldUkjp
  • WN Chapter 66: https://www.readlightnovel.org/tensei-shitara-slime-datta-ken-wn/chapter-66

 

[Sheska444]

Vol 14 illustration, apparently the white hair girl is velzard, pretty disappointing considering what velgrynd looks like.

ramiris looks so cute as always!

 

[Sheska444]

velzard kinda reminds me of hestia - danmachi , both are lolis with big oppai . it doesn't make any sense... what a blasphemyƒÿú lolis = flat and flat is Justice!

 

[Elizhaa]

I mean Velzard is a spiritual beings and they are genderless. They have Shapeshifting.