TenSura LN Major Revision - Raphael is a Regeneration Device

[CelestialVortex01]

Can y'all take a break for a couple hours and stop yapping for once

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Basically: false accusation without evidence. I didn't change/edit my arguments at any point, at most I stopped arguing about one thing or another.

Are you sure about that?

I literally posted a scan of this, I know this very well, even if you are right that "heart" refers to the core, it is still stated that Raphael exists "in the right corner of Rimuru's soul", so unless there is something that refute this, if Rimuru is completely destroyed, so is Raphael.

Except, that ignores the counter-argument presented in the thread's OP, so ignorance once again.

I never said that hit was a direct hit,

Which I never claimed you did either

I said the "assumption" is still talking specifically about that hit, the "assumption" is if THAT hit caught on like it was supposed to.

To be exact, that hit + the additional conditions that Raphael and Rimuru added. Not exactly the exact same thing.

*Core

Editing your question with that, it becomes this:

How about you prove that when Rimuru uses the skill as a "shield" (sacrifices it), the skill remains existing ONLY in Rimuru's core? Which is what really needs to be proven here, despite the manga and LN pointing out that the sacrifice of skill causes the skill to be used as a "shield" that is in front of Rimuru's body.

Because there's nothing in the whole narrative where someone brings a skill outside their soul or heart core[on which the skill is engraved].
The thing that you're pointing out as "Shield" is only the non-physical phenomenon manifested through the skill, as explained in the Skills and Magic page.
Additionally, if a skill is in the heart core, it is considered "impossible to remove" even for someone like Ciel:

There are abilities that can seize skills from the enemy, but they only work if the skill is “in residence” like that. Some exceptional skills can reside in the soul instead, but those could be snatched away as well. So if a skill’s carved into a soul, that makes it much harder to steal?

Not for certain. However, if it has bonded to a heart core, it is impossible to remove.
~ Volume 18

And if you're gonna say "then how did Disintegration remove it", that's because:

• that's a unique property of Disintegration, its ability to reach the core and the information particles in that core. However, even Ciel, an upgraded version of Raphael, cannot do something like bringing the skill itself[the set of information] outside the heart core and info the physical world, and that holds true at least for Volume 18 Ciel, which is before Rimuru became a DLF.
• The context is about seizing skills directly without effecting the heart, which goes along your line of thought of "making the skill come to the hand outside the heart". Disintegration is outright destroying the skill by destroying the heart core, partially or completely.

From the moment the skill is being used outside of Rimuru's body, this goes against what you say, the skill is sacrificed at the same moment Beelzebuth consumes the Melt Slash, nothing indicates that the blow went through the skill and reached the core, just that the act of "consuming"/using the ability and sacrificing was the same act.

Not really. With your logic that means in all instances where Beelzebuth consumed something in the anime, it should also be sacrificed in each and every one of those moment.

The blow didn't "went through the skill and reached the heart core", but "went through the soul, reached the heart core, and than destroyed the skill". And again, that argument about "the skill coming to Rimuru's hand in its literal form" is nonsensical and contradicted by the physiology pages.

This does not prove that a "sacrificed" skill continues to exist only within the core,

Not really, that IS what a skill is, data engraved on the soul or the core.

it is one thing to say that just the use of the skill is just the phenomenon being brought into reality and that the skill continues to exist in the core, another thing is to say that the sacrificing a skill leaves it remaining only in the core, Rimuru is literally sacrificing the skill, not just invoking it, they are two different things.

Bro what
read the novel again rather then the manga and come again. And when you come back, give me ONE SCAN that says the same skill, as a set of data, can exist in both the heart core and outside in the physical world "on the arm of the user"....

And no, they are not different things. To sacrifice a skill you have to activate/invoke it and stop the incoming attack.

Report. It is suggested to sacrifice your ultimate skill Beelzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, to cancel out this attack.

I knew I could rely on old Professor Raphael at a time like this. As much as I hated to let go of Beelzebuth, I didn’t have much choice here. Out of all the suggestions it had, this was the most likely one to work, so there wasn't much point wavering on a decision. At this speed, besides, aiming practically didn’t matter. It’s not like I could adjust my trajectory midway. Raphael used Predict Future Attack to calculate the point Hinata aimed at, activating Beelzebuth at that exact spot. The moment her sword hit me, Beelzebuth would swallow it all up—or so the plan went. Pretty simple. No reason to waver. And in another few scant moments, Hinata’s skill crossed paths with Beelzebuth.

And again, your whole "another thing is to say that the sacrificing a skill leaves it remaining only in the core" is baseless because skills, to begin with, exist in the heart core. A Skill is a Soul power.

Whether it belongs to a human being or a monster, all souls have a set quality and quantity. It is composed of matter known as dataparticles, and through managing and applying certain forces to them, it’s possible to control life and death to some extent.

The souls of plants and animals house only a very tiny amount of energy. Human souls, meanwhile, have tons and tons. We’vealready confirmed that a certain amount is given to everyone equally, and the ability to fully hardness that soul energy leads to the manifestation of soul powers—or what we call special skills. This data, engraved in your soul since birth, is the source of those powers.

So is the data written directly onto this energy? Not exactly. First, there’s the ego, a set of amorphous wavelengths within the soul, and the group of data particles that surrounds it. This is known as the heart, and that’s where all the data is stored. The crystallized energy that covers this heart is what we call the soul.

So there's nothing in the novel that says a skill can exist both inside the core and outside in the physical world at the same time, insofar as that when a skill is "scarified", only the part in the physical world is scarified.

"another thing is to say that the sacrificing a skill leaves it remaining only in the core" itself means that before the sacrifice, the skill existed somewhere outside the core in the physical world and in the core at the same time, which is contradictory because the things/visuals we see when skills are activated are the non-physical phenomenon that are realized through the usage of those skills; it's not the skill itself.

A skill itself[data] is different from the visuals that are "on the arm" that you're so talking about.

Same thing as before.
No, my argument does not contradict the page, the page mentions that skills/magic are phenomena brought into reality, while the real skill remains existing in the core, but nothing says about the sacrifice being the same thing as just invoking the skill,

Which I never said either -_-
The sacrifice is the skill itself.
The invoked skill produces phenomenon in real life realized through the skill.
That is the whole point I'm arguing with you.

the point "Sacrificing" is literally taking the existing ability in the core itself and causing it to be destroyed by actually invoking it as a "shield" (something that can be seen in the LN itself).

And I never said something against that. My point is that for the "existing ability in the core" to be destroyed, you have to reach the core itself. The "shield" that Rimuru involved in front of his body was the non-physical phenomenon realized in the real world through the usage of the skill, but to destroy the skill itself, you have to reach the heart.

If the sacrifice were just the invocation of a spell/skill existing in the core into reality, as it normally is, then there would be no sacrifice of the ability itself, since the ability itself would still only exist in the core, this would be a serious contradiction with the act of "sacrificing" a skill, then it is quite obvious that the act of using/invoking the skill is about taking the skill itself and using it as a shield bringing it into reality as a sacrifice.

Yep, and I never said anything against that except the last point I bolded out. The thing being used as a "shield" is the non-physical phenomenon; Skills rooted in the heart cannot just "be removed from the core and bringing the skill itself into reality". The reason why the skill was destroyed to begin with was because disintegration reached the heart core, which is proved[and which I quoted many times] in Volume Nineteen.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can y'all take a break for a couple hours and stop yapping for once

I want a break too y'know, I ain't yapping just because I want to

 

[Meli_Tempest]

How is it possible that people don't even know that it is impossible to separate a skill from the core? It's so hard to read? it's on the page!

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Again reread your scan and mark this headcanon you are spitting and resend the scan it you can even find the word in there.

disintegration can destroy peoples souls ,the scan literally says what remained after hinatas soul was crushed was her skill ,where is the headcanon.
Even the profile pages says disintegration has conceptual and information destruction

 

[Berga14]

disintegration can destroy peoples souls ,the scan literally says what remained after hinatas soul was crushed was her skill ,where is the headcanon.
Even the profile pages says disintegration has conceptual and information destruction

Again reread your scan and mark this headcanon you are spitting and resend the scan it you can even find the word in there.

Disintegration DESTROYS souls, there isn't a possibility to unlock souls as it was a "possible" target.

 

[Dog3352]

Are you sure about that?

Yes, it remains a false accusation, most of my comments are edited, I use Google translate, which makes mistakes in several words and I have to fix it, so unless you show my comment before editing with a different argument , these are now two false accusations.

I'm not going to argue with you about the sacrifice thing, but mentioning that there is no moment that says or shows that it is possible to separate the skill from the core doesn't prove anything, the sacrifice of skill is a unique thing and different from all other things related to magic/skill, if the sacrifice only brought the phenomenon of the skill to reality like the normal use of any common magic/skill, the sacrifice of the skill completely loses its meaning in all aspects, and the LN (Rimuru) itself makes it very clear that Rimuru would ask for the core skill, since he even gets confused when Raphael uses the skill again, everything in the LN points out that Rimuru used the core's own skill as a shield, and the sacrifice is about losing the skill that is in the core permanently, and him using the skill does not refute the point of the "sacrifice" clearly not being just the use of the skill (Raphael literally states that the activation of beelzebuth to consume Melt Slash and the sacrifice used to cancel the attack were two different things that happened at the same time, so him using the ability proves nothing, since him using the skill is not the sacrifice in itself)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yes, it remains a false accusation, most of my comments are edited, I use Google translate, which makes mistakes in several words and I have to fix it, so unless you show my comment before editing with a different argument , these are now two false accusations.

I only pointed out the SS earlier because you said you hadn't edited your replies while for me it showed it was edited.
Mind you, I'm not arguing against you changing your argument via the edit, just, the point of you "editing" your posts.

I'm not going to argue with you about the sacrifice thing, but mentioning that there is no moment that says or shows that it is possible to separate the skill from the core doesn't prove anything, the sacrifice of skill is a unique thing and different from all other things related to magic/skill, if the sacrifice only brought the phenomenon of the skill to reality like the normal use of any common magic/skill, the sacrifice of the skill completely loses its meaning in all aspects, and the LN (Rimuru) itself makes it very clear that Rimuru would ask for the core skill, since he even gets confused when Raphael uses the skill again, everything in the LN points out that Rimuru used the core's own skill as a shield, and the sacrifice is about losing the skill that is in the core permanently, and him using the skill does not refute the point of the "sacrifice" clearly not being just the use of the skill (Raphael literally states that the activation of beelzebuth to consume Melt Slash and the sacrifice used to cancel the attack were two different things that happened at the same time, so him using the ability proves nothing, since him using the skill is not the sacrifice in itself)

You're not really understanding anything once again.
It's not just "there's no moment that says or shows that it is possible to separate a skill", but there's also Ciel's direct statement that such a thing is impossible, even for her, despite Ciel obviously being superior to both Rimuru and Raphael [their Volume 7 versions] in all aspects, the most important one being knowledge.
We're given a "it's impossible to separate them" statement from the evolutionary higher state of the literal thing that suggested to "sacrifice" the skill in the earlier volumes. So saying otherwise is outright saying Ciel or Raphael is wrong.

Not for certain. However, if it has bonded to a heart core, it is impossible to remove. ~ Volume 18

"and the sacrifice is about losing the skill that is in the core permanently" and I never argued against that.
"Raphael literally states that the activation of beelzebuth to consume Melt Slash and the sacrifice used to cancel the attack were two different things that happened at the same time" which doesn't go anything against what I said either The point is, you're continuously assuming that the skill must come out of the core and onto Rimuru's hand just for the "sacrifice" and "skill destruction" to happen when that can fully well happen even without that happening. Disintegration is a spiritual attack, as I've said multiple times, it reaches the heart core as well, that's why it could destroy Beelzebuth. That is pointed out very clearly in Volume 19 in the scan I sent earlier and you cannot deny that. Just because "the skill's activation" and "sacrifice" happened in the same scene, does not mean the skill itself came out of the core and onto Rimuru's hand. You're basing your argument on a single manga panel when, once again, your whole point is contradicted throughout the novel.

 

[Dog3352]

I only pointed out the SS earlier because you said you hadn't edited your replies while for me it showed it was edited.
Mind you, I'm not arguing against you changing your argument via the edit, just, the point of you "editing" your posts.

You're not really understanding anything once again.
It's not just "there's no moment that says or shows that it is possible to separate a skill", but there's also Ciel's direct statement that such a thing is impossible, even for her, despite Ciel obviously being superior to both Rimuru and Raphael [their Volume 7 versions] in all aspects, the most important one being knowledge.
We're given a "it's impossible to separate them" statement from the evolutionary higher state of the literal thing that suggested to "sacrifice" the skill in the earlier volumes. So saying otherwise is outright saying Ciel or Raphael is wrong.

"and the sacrifice is about losing the skill that is in the core permanently" and I never argued against that.
"Raphael literally states that the activation of beelzebuth to consume Melt Slash and the sacrifice used to cancel the attack were two different things that happened at the same time" which doesn't go anything against what I said either The point is, you're continuously assuming that the skill must come out of the core and onto Rimuru's hand just for the "sacrifice" and "skill destruction" to happen when that can fully well happen even without that happening. Disintegration is a spiritual attack, as I've said multiple times, it reaches the heart core as well, that's why it could destroy Beelzebuth. That is pointed out very clearly in Volume 19 in the scan I sent earlier and you cannot deny that. Just because "the skill's activation" and "sacrifice" happened in the same scene, does not mean the skill itself came out of the core and onto Rimuru's hand. You're basing your argument on a single manga panel when, once again, your whole point is contradicted throughout the novel.

So Ciel completely contradicts his own actions in volume 7, it's one thing for Ciel to say such a thing while nothing in the LN shows a skill itself coming out of the nucleus, it's another thing for Ciel to declare such a thing when Rimuru and Raphael make it clear several times that the skill in itself is being sacrificed to stop the attack as a shield, not that Rimuru is letting the blow reach its core to specifically destroy that skill.
I didn't deny that disintegration affects the core, but nothing in vol 7 says that such a thing happened, as I said, the meaning of "sacrificing" the skill completely loses its meaning, and the point is for the core skill to be destroyed/erasing to defend the core attack, nothing shows/evidences/declares that Melt Slash destroyed the invocation/use of Beelzebuth and directly destroyed the core skill, the sacrifice/erasure/destruction of the skill iself was something that Rimuru/Raphael himself did, not Hinata.

And I looked at the context, and Ciel doesn't say that it's impossible for the user itself of the skill to remove it, but rather that it's impossible for someone else to remove/steal it.

 

[Berga14]

Ciel to declare such a thing when Rimuru and Raphael make it clear several times that the skill in itself is being sacrificed to stop the attack

At this point you are just refusing the evidence, idk how astral can even answer to you anymore.
THE SKILL DOESN'T NEED TO EXIT THE CORE. DISINTEGRATION REACH BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL ASPETC OF THE TARGET. Also the skill can't get out the core. Also not once was sayd or shown that the skill went out, what you see is just the normal effect of the skill that absorb Hinata attack. The sacrifice is just a word not some special tecnique or something, Raphael just wanted to save rimuru and analize Melt Slash/spiritrons but she knew that absorbing and tanking an attack that erase info would result in belzebub getting erased.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Ok, I've fully gone through the blog and I'm ready to give a response now, will probably also refute what was said in the counter arguments section.

First and foremost, the CRT used the same repeated arguments from this CRT in the past, which had already been rejected. You can read the counterarguments against the OP from there for more details.

From the previous CRT, the reason for the removal of the rating initially was:

• Infinite Regeneration is a Skill; how can it work even if the Heart Core would be supposedly destroyed by Disintegration?
• Disintegration has limits; it might have not destroyed Rimuru's Heart Core, and he could be a similar case to Veldora.
• Infinite Regeneration takes Magicules, how could it be deployed if Rimuru's entire being was destroyed, including his Magicules?

First off, no, the arguments from my thread back then were not refuted. The thread was closed as a compromise as a result couldn't be reached between either side along with the supporters not even answering the main argument so I don't appreciate the use of my past failure as a stepping stone to pass off something like this.

1st Argument Counter​

---

For some reason you started off contradicting yourself. "Infinite regeneration doesn't use up massive amounts of energy" goes on to show scans of it using massive amounts of energy. Either way, the amount of magicules it requires was never a prerequisite to whether it qualifies for HGR in the first place.
As I mentioned previously, the existence of soul energy as a replacement for magicules still goes against the standard for HG as having soul energy still indicates the existence of one's core and consequently, it not being destroyed.

2nd Argument Counter​

---

Well, to be clear, the Heart Core was (and would be) destroyed, COMPLETELY, because Rimuru did take Disintegration/Melt Slash completely Head On. That would naturally include Infinite Regeneration since that's a Skill too. However, what was not (and would not be) destroyed was Raphael.​

The OTL missed the Kanji "直撃", which means "Direct Hit". Yes, the assumption that Rimuru would have survived Melt Slash via Infinite Regeneration was based on a "Direct Hit" principle, not some "Could have been dodged" one. Melt Slash, under this assumption, would have really destroyed Rimuru, Soul and All.

Nobody ever once confused what "direct hit" means neither did anyone think he would dodge. The fact the regeneration skill was brought up by Raphael already makes it clear it was in context of Rimuru being hit, simple deductive reasoning.
Where is the assumption Infinite regeneration was destroyed too even coming from? Only one skill was destroyed that being Beelzebuth and the only reason it was destroyed in the first place was because Rimuru defended himself with it. It is not only a massive leap of logic to assume the attack destroyed all other skills but then still contradict oneself by saying Raphael, another skill wasn't destroyed.

This also means that Raphael would have made a backup for Infinite Regeneration as well. Now, you might be wondering, then how would Rimuru's Heart Core be completely destroyed if Raphael, a Skill that is supposed to be INSIDE the Heart Core, was not (and would not be) destroyed?

Well, simple, because Raphael isn't in Rimuru's Heart Core, it's DIRECTLY and VERY CLEARLY clarified as an exception to that rule:

Did reading comprehension go on vacation or something? Even if Raphael got a separate core, it is still inside Rimuru not to mention nothing in the scan says Raphael is a exception.

But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born. A self, to put it another way. There had to be one there or else a skill wouldn’t evolve in such rogue fashion in order to fulfill its master’s wishes

I smelt bull from this so I went in search of the full context and this isn't talking about Raphael gaining some heartcore of it's own, it's about it becoming sentient, gaining emotions. Either way, this doesn't make it some separate existence from Rimuru when it is still part of his soul.

Regardless of his internal conflicts, Raphael continued with his incomparably accurate work. He analyzed and assessed nearly a hundred monsters at the same time, repairing their bodies, regenerating their souls, and finally resurrecting them. It was a seamless flow, not a single extraneous motion involved, and everything was handled at the right place and time. Before the monsters in town realized it, the miracle had secretly completed itself.

I may not be an avid slime reader but I have read through volumes 1-6/7, followed the anime from the first season and this comes from volume 5. This is simply resurrection as their bodies are still there, Raphael isn't regenerating their souls, the anti-magic (?) erected in tempest prevented their souls from dissipating and Rimuru further strengthened the barrier so their souls are still very much there. They aren't being regenerated from scratch but are being repaired at best similar to their bodies.

On the topic of contradictions..."The term used here is also "Regeneration", not "Resurrect"." Doesn't that scan say he resurrected them?

So, to summarize, this simply means Raphael has backed up all of Rimuru's Skills, and questionably, even Rimuru himself (his memories, ego and all).

Now we have two assumptions here of how Rimuru would survive a direct hit from Melt Slash:

1. Raphael would have regenerated Rimuru's Ego(questionable if it was destroyed to begin with), Heart Core and Soul itself, and then regenerate his Physical Body via Infinite Regeneration.
2. Raphael would have regenerated Infinite Regeneration alone, and afterwards, use Infinite Regeneration to regenerate everything, including the Heart Core, Soul, and Physical Body.

More leaps in logic and assumptions. At this point, one might as well self proclaim themselves the author.
I also find something here interesting. Every mention of infinite regeneration is always in reference to the physical body be it Raphael saying Rimuru can regenerate his physical body instantly, Shion being said to be physically immortal, Rimuru not being sure he can regenerate by saying he can probably (emphasis on probably) regenerate his body if it's reduced to goo (Vol. 6 Ch. 5 Pg. 270). It's hard to believe that Raphael in all it's wisdom would make a significant distinction for regenerating just the body for no reason.

---

That brings an end to the portion about the blog and as for the OP...

• Raphael still resides in Rimuru's Soul; Even if it has a different heart, it should still be a part of Rimuru's aspects!

Answer: Not even close. Raphael is not only stated to be an entirely separate Heart Core from Rimuru's, it is also directly called "Soulless". Therefore, there's a clear distinction made and Raphael, albeit Rimuru's skill that resides IN his soul, is not a part of it and is independent of it entirely.

Raphael is never stated to be separate, just sentient, gained emotions. Stop saying what isn't mentioned or implied in the scans, you're already notorious for this.
"Heart" is clearly referring to emotions here not the nucleic heart and even if Raphael did gain a nucleic heart of it's own, it is literally said to be in a corner of Rimuru's soul. Wouldn't being soulless further disprove the existence of a heartcore?
You put a box within another box and shoot disintegration at it, why won't both boxes get nuked? Raphael cannot be in hos soul and not part of it, even if one concedes and says Raphael is not part of Rimuru's soul, it's still inside him.

• How would Raphael not be erased as well if Rimuru were to experience a "direct hit" from Disintegration/Melt Slash?

Answer: There can be a few reasons to that. Either Raphael would separate itself from Rimuru's Soul before Disintegration erases it, or Raphael has a backup for itself in the Laws of the World, since Raphael is, ultimately, and so are all skills, part of the Set of Laws of the World (World System).

They call him 007, 0 statements, 0 feats, 7 contradicting assumptions backed by no scans. Where has Raphael separated itself before? Where is it said it backed itself up to the VoTW? We only allow assumptions such as these when they are backed by statements that support it.

• Regarding the first assumption, how could it separate itself faster then Disintegration/Melt Slash hits it when Speed of Light is supposed to be the maximum Physical Speed as stated in-verse?

Answer: The Heart Core is made up of Information Particles (which travel at Immeasurable Speed when forced to move by a will/ego), or simply say, they can travel any spatial or temporal distance in 0 time. So its plausible.

Funny, suddenly there's no speed cap anymore. It was said infinite regen could regenerate rimuru faster than disintegration, meltslash can destroy him and the SoL cap was brought up. Since infinite regen can regenerate info particles as you're claiming and they move at immeasurable speed, nothing stops it from outperforming the erasure. The SoL cap as a counter was bull, simply regenerating at the same speed is enough to outlast an attack and simply because said attack travels at that speed doesn't mean the erasure is being done at that speed.

• How would Infinite Regeneration be able to regenerate the core when its explicitly stated in Shion's core that it cannot regenerate from Core destruction?

Answer: Because as stated in the sandbox, each skill, even if it shares the same name, is different in working and potency. Just because Shion's skill is limited to core destruction doesn't mean Rimuru's skill is so as well.

So prior to the downgrade, why did everyone with infinite regen get HGR? If two skills aren't the same despite sharing the same name then they shouldn't be scalable to each other. There might be profiles that still share the same abilities by virtue of possessing the same skill as such they should be limited to their own feats. You don't get to pull this just cause it's convenient for you.

• Is there any example that supports that Skills can work after core destruction and can regenerate data particles?

Answer: Indeed, and very clearly so. You can see this post for an example. So yes, there are skills that still work even after having their Heart Core disintegrated.

At this point I don't think I care about the thread again. Astral_Trinity is hereby excommunicated from the community of wankers. The scan in the message you linked not only once again contradicts your line of reasoning but also serves as an anti-feat to disintegration.

However, my trusted companion, the Wise King Raphael, had a different opinion.
《—He was indeed hit directly. However, just after it was confirmed that Prelix's magical elements were disintegrated and the spiritual particles scattered, they recombined in a strange way.》

Both contradict you and serve as an anti-feat. Magical elements refers to magicules, spiritual particles refer to spiritrons and things associated with it. Disintegration destroyed the magical elements but only scattered the spiritual particles meaning they were not destroyed. Secondly, his nucleic heart that is info particles clearly weren't destroyed or even scattered as you claim as Raphael only mentions magic and spirit particles and skills are information particles

Since this magical tower is a closed space, it is unlikely that the "soul" would disperse. The room is filled with magical light, and not even the light of the stars enters.

Need I say more? No mention of info particles, the soul/spirit particles weren't even destroyed dispersed fully so the soul is very much intact along with the skills it houses. A skill shouldn't be left after complete destruction, does this point need to be beaten into the supporters or what?

This brings something to light and it's that disintegration, meltslash doesn't actively target information particles. Beelzebuth was only destroyed because Rimuru sacrificed it, Hinata's attack didn't reach into the nucleic heart to destroy it, Rimuru himself exposed the skill to the attack. I think this needs to be looked into. Are there any other feats of these two abilities actually destroying info particels cause this is a massive anti-feat. It's EE properties seem to stop at physical destruction (magic particles) and merely disperse the spiritual aspects leaving info particle that are even smaller than spirit particles unharmed in the process.

• If Raphael is separate from Rimuru and thus an "External Factor", how is it Regeneration and not Resurrection?

Answer: Strictly speaking, no. While it does have some level of independency, it's still simply a part of Rimuru's Soul, but just so far as to reside in it, and be a part of Rimuru's own powers/abilities. The only difference is that Raphael can 'regenerate' itself via VoTW. So it's not an "External Factor" when the power itself still belongs to and is, Rimuru's.

Not only would this be resurrection and not regeneration, you're suddenly contradicting yourself again by saying Raphael is a part of Rimuru's soul, actually resides within it. Got any scans to prove Raphael can regenerate itself via VoTW?

 

[Dog3352]

At this point you are just refusing the evidence, idk how astral can even answer to you anymore.
THE SKILL DOESN'T NEED TO EXIT THE CORE. DISINTEGRATION REACH BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL ASPETC OF THE TARGET. Also the skill can't get out the core. Also not once was sayd or shown that the skill went out, what you see is just the normal effect of the skill that absorb Hinata attack. The sacrifice is just a word not some special tecnique or something, Raphael just wanted to save rimuru and analize Melt Slash/spiritrons but she knew that absorbing and tanking an attack that erase info would result in belzebub getting erased.

And my points continue, Melt Slash, in addition to being canceled by the sacrifice (said by Rimuru/Raphael himself), was at the same time consumed by beelzebuth, therefore, it doesn't make any sense to say that the attack destroyed the activation of the skill and specifically hit the skill in the core (nothing indicates/evidences/declares/shows this), and the LN itself never points out that Melt Slash destroyed the beelzebuth activation, the skill itself in the core, or something like that, but only that Rimuru sacrificed her to cancel the attack, Hinata did not destroy the skill that was in the core, Rimuru himself sacrificed/destroyed his existing skill in the core to cancel the attack (as is clearly stated).

And this:

And I looked at the context, and Ciel doesn't say that it's impossible for the user itself of the skill to remove it, but rather that it's impossible for someone else to remove/steal it.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Bump, can someone call the staff

 

[Berga14]

Bump, can someone call the staff

We already did and we are still debating

 

[Berga14]

Melt Slash, in addition to being canceled by the sacrifice (said by Rimuru/Raphael himself), was at the same time consumed by beelzebuth, therefore, it doesn't make any sense to say that the attack destroyed the activation of the skill and specifically hit the skill in the core (nothing indicates/evidences/declares/shows this),

There isn't any logical reason to it not making sense.
The "activation of the skill" isn't an actual separate thing, it's just the skill being used. Also "specifically hit" dude Rimuru literally absorbed Melt slash so that attack also enterd imaginary space (or it's former version of which i don't remember the name) and just erased alle info in its way. Also don't try the "nothing shows/indicate" bullshit when your entire point contraddict how things work in verse and when nothing indicate shows the skill itself being outside the core.

the LN itself never points out that Melt Slash destroyed the beelzebuth activation, the skill itself in the core, or something like that, but only that Rimuru sacrificed her to cancel the attack, Hinata did not destroy the skill that was in the core, Rimuru himself sacrificed/destroyed his existing skill in the core to cancel the attack

Completely wrong headcanon, Rimuru literally used the skill to absorb melt slash, nothing about destroying it (and why should he do that? It pointless expecially due to this entire thing being Raphael plan to analize melt slash).
Also it's literally sayd that the skill got destroyed and we know that it is in the core (also the activation of the skill is just 1 of the subskills and it's the only one that has a external impact while the one used to analize is still within Rimuru. Both got erased as the entire skill got erased).

And this:

Ciel says "it is impossible to remove" which is general to everyone seeing how people that wanted to get rid of their skills (like Dino) couldn't.
You say that it was referred to steling only due to the specific situation the inforamtion was sayd.

 

[Dog3352]

There isn't any logical reason to it not making sense.
The "activation of the skill" isn't an actual separate thing, it's just the skill being used. Also "specifically hit" dude Rimuru literally absorbed Melt slash so that attack also enterd imaginary space (or it's former version of which i don't remember the name) and just erased alle info in its way. Also don't try the "nothing shows/indicate" bullshit when your entire point contraddict how things work in verse and when nothing indicate shows the skill itself being outside the core

The "activation" (skill being used) is something separate/different from the "sacrifice", that's what I stated. Rimuru sacrificed his skill, this is written all the time, I don't know what is difficult to understand here.
Nothing I said contradicts anything, the only thing that "contradicts" the verse in my point is Ciel talking about removing the ability, and as you can see from the context, she is specifically talking about one person removing another person's ability through some theft/removal ability, nothing about the character himself being unable to remove his own ability.

Completely wrong headcanon, Rimuru literally used the skill to absorb melt slash, nothing about destroying it (and why should he do that? It pointless expecially due to this entire thing being Raphael plan to analize melt slash).
Also it's literally sayd that the skill got destroyed and we know that it is in the core (also the activation of the skill is just 1 of the subskills and it's the only one that has a external impact while the one used to analize is still within Rimuru. Both got erased as the entire skill got erased).

Same thing as above, I'm not going to repeat the same thing here, I'm not inventing any headcanon, I'm saying what is written in the LN itself, Rimuru/Raphael sacrificed the skill/information (beelzebuth) of the core.

Anyway, there's still this:
Hinata didn't want to kill Rimuru, and even tried not to destroy his body completely to make sure he would survive the blow, which wouldn't make any sense if If she was trying to destroy Rimuru's core, ego and soul, since the core, ego and soul are much more difficult to regenerate than the physical body, being careful not to destroy the body while destroying the soul, ego and core does not do the minor sense;
Raphael makes it clear that the Melt Slash would only erase Rimuru's body, saying that Rimuru would be able to regenerate his physical body from a direct attack from the Melt Slash, which would not make any sense to specify only that the physical body would be destroyed if the attack would also destroy the soul, core and ego, of course, unless Melt Slash's direct attack was just to destroy Rimuru's physical body;
Another reason why it makes no sense for Hinata to try not to destroy her entire physical body to ensure Rimuru's survival while destroying soul, core and ego, is the fact that if Hinata destroyed soul, ego and core, at least for Hinata, Rimuru would not seriously capable of regenerating from this, Hinata knew that Rimuru would survive having almost his entire body destroyed, but never says/mentions anything about whether Rimuru would be able to come back to life after having his entire existence erased, being that she had no idea about it, so it doesn't make any sense for her to try to make sure Rimuru would survive the blow while literally erasing the most fundamental part of her existence.

Ciel says "it is impossible to remove" which is general to everyone seeing how people that wanted to get rid of their skills (like Dino) couldn't.
You say that it was referred to steling only due to the specific situation the inforamtion was sayd.

The context refers to a person stealing/removing someone else's ability, nothing says about the ability user themselves being unable to remove, Rimuru literally asks directly about it being impossible to STEAL the ability (one person takes the ability from another), it's not because Ciel says "remove" that this applies to the user of the ability himself, besides, stealing the ability also removes it in this context.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Holy yapping of the yappingtons

 

[Berga14]

The "activation" (skill being used) is something separate/different from the "sacrifice", that's what I stated. Rimuru sacrificed his skill, this is written all the time, I don't know what is difficult to understand here

what is difficult to understand is that you gave you own headcanon definition of "sacrifice".
the LN clrearly says that:

1. attack incoming.
2. Raphael wants to analize it so that she can learn it (and learn about spiritrons).
3. For analize it she needs to absorb it.
4. to absorb it she needs to use beelzebub.
5. Melt slash is based on disintegration which erases infos as well as the body, souls and core.
6. skill are infos so Raphael knows that beelzebub will get destroyed and so she makes a copy.

So sacrifice = an action that will bring inevitable destruction to beelzebub but that will shild rimuru and give raphael the possibility to analize.
While you say that "sacrifice" is like some sort of specific action where rimuru autodestroys (or take it out of his core) his skill to shild himsef...

even if I theorize that Rimuru absorbed the attack with Beelzebuth

that isn't a theory, that's what appened...

«Answer. The attack just now— “Melt Slash” was canceled by ‘Gluttonous KingBeelzebuth’ and engaged by ‘Predation’ at the same time. The information gathered then was successful in analyzing the random motion of spiritrons. That is why defense mechanism was able to predict the attack of holy-element. In addition, you’ve obtained Holy Sword technique “Melt Slash.” » - Raphael Vol 7.

his skill as a shield at the end.

yeah, this is everyone point, your point is that he somehow took out the skill from his core and used it as an actual shild and nothing suggest this option expecially when we know that taking out/destroying skills in the core can be done via administrative autority (and Rimuru doesn't have it at this point in the story).

I'm not inventing any headcanon, I'm saying what is written in the LN itself

except that you aren't doing that? The problem is your definition of "sacrifice"... not once was sayd that rimuru erased his own skill (also erasing skill doesn't give any buff at all)

or used it as a shield,

He did that. BUT not via taking it out from his core (thing that he can't do without administrative autority).
High quality rappresentation:

The context refers to a person stealing/removing someone else's ability, nothing says about the ability user themselves being unable to remove, Rimuru literally asks directly about it being impossible to STEAL the ability (one person takes the ability from another), it's not because Ciel says "remove" that this applies to the user of the ability himself, besides, stealing the ability also removes it in this context.

the context says that indeed, my point was that that statament was valid for the user himself if we count the administrative autority thing from Obera.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

High quality rappresentation:

Which Volume illustration is this from?

 

[Berga14]

Which Volume illustration is this from?

Vol 69

 

[Dog3352]

what is difficult to understand is that you gave you own headcanon definition of "sacrifice".
the LN clrearly says that:

1. attack incoming.
2. Raphael wants to analize it so that she can learn it (and learn about spiritrons).
3. For analize it she needs to absorb it.
4. to absorb it she needs to use beelzebub.
5. Melt slash is based on disintegration which erases infos as well as the body, souls and core.
6. skill are infos so Raphael knows that beelzebub will get destroyed and so she makes a copy.

So sacrifice = an action that will bring inevitable destruction to beelzebub but that will shild rimuru and give raphael the possibility to analize.
While you say that "sacrifice" is like some sort of specific action where rimuru autodestroys (or take it out of his core) his skill to shild himsef...

I literally said Rimuru was using beelzebuth as a shield, you're saying the same thing as me.
The problem with proving HGR was never a lack of evidence that Hinata's attack destroyed the information/skill beelzebuth, but rather that everything in the LN says that Melt Slash's "direct attack" would only destroy Rimuru's physical body, not the soul, ego or core.

that isn't a theory, that's what appened...

«Answer. The attack just now— “Melt Slash” was canceled by ‘Gluttonous KingBeelzebuth’ and engaged by ‘Predation’ at the same time. The information gathered then was successful in analyzing the random motion of spiritrons. That is why defense mechanism was able to predict the attack of holy-element. In addition, you’ve obtained Holy Sword technique “Melt Slash.” » - Raphael Vol 7.

The problem in proving HGR was never a lack of evidence that Hinata's attack provided the beelzebuth information/skill, but rather that the LN points out that Melt Slash's "direct attack" would only destroy Rimuru's physical body, not his soul. , ego or core, as stated by Raphael that he would regenerate Rimuru's physical body, as stated by Rimuru that Hinata was being careful not to destroy the entire physical body, which would be useless if she destroyed Rimuru's soul, core and ego, besides Hinata didn't even know if Rimuru was capable of regenerating his soul, ego and core, but she knew that he was capable of regenerating his body, which makes this even more in line with reality.

yeah, this is everyone point, your point is that he somehow took out the skill from his core and used it as an actual shild and nothing suggest this option expecially when we know that taking out/destroying skills in the core can be done via administrative autority (and Rimuru doesn't have it at this point in the story).

I think Hinata destroying beelzebuth, whether inside or outside the core wouldn't exactly change much.

except that you aren't doing that? The problem is your definition of "sacrifice"... not once was sayd that rimuru erased his own skill (also erasing skill doesn't give any buff at all)

Okay, even if we say that it was Hinata's attack that destroyed beelzebuth, that doesn't change the problem mentioned above, besides the only reason why Melt Slash would have destroyed Beelzenuth would be because Rimuru himself made the attack hit the skill, being that the LN makes it clear that Hinata's dideto attack would only destroy Rimuru's physical body if beelzebuth had not prevented the attack.

He did that. BUT not via taking it out from his core (thing that he can't do without administrative autority).
High quality rappresentation:

Right... But why Sonic?

the context says that indeed, my point was that that statament was valid for the user himself if we count the administrative autority thing from Obera.

The context talks about a person stealing another's ability, this clearly does not account for the ability user themselves being unable to take it away.

 

[Berga14]

, but rather that everything in the LN says that Melt Slash's "direct attack" would only destroy Rimuru's physical body, not the soul, ego or core

Not a problem, Melt slash is disintegration on a sword (more or less) disintegration erases those things.
here from vol 19 about melt slash:

“’Melt Slash.”’

Michael, having taken over Rudra’s body, had already mastered his swordplay. It was impossible for the current Michael to recreate Rudra’s most powerful technique, the ‘Nova Break,’ but he was fully capable of using the most powerful sword techniques that manipulated one’s spirit. He was also adept at Disintegration and chosen to use the transcendental holy sword technique, ‘Overblade’ for this match. Rimuru, on the other hand, showed his hidden move without any hesitation.

Melt Slash's "direct attack" would only destroy Rimuru's physical body, not his soul. , ego or core, as stated by Raphael

Except that for reaching the core and erase belzebub you need to go trought the soul.. and belzebub is a part of the core.

Rimuru's physical body, as stated by Rimuru that Hinata was being careful not to destroy the entire physical body, which would be useless if she destroyed Rimuru's soul, core and ego, besides Hinata didn't even know if Rimuru was capable of regenerating his soul, ego and core.

What hinata knows isn't really important.
Also she doesn't really have any control on how destructive Melt slash is so yeah her worrying is pointless. Expecially that part about Rimuru's head...

beelzebuth skill, whether inside or outside the core, change?

That she is able to reach the core and erase it. Anyway the point was made by astral, i just corrected some of the things you sayd.

Okay, even if we say that it was Hinata's attack that destroyed beelzebuth, that doesn't change the problem mentioned above, besides the only reason why Melt Slash would have destroyed Beelzenuth would be because Rimuru himself made the attack hit the skill

ONLY belzebub was destroyed thanks to the sacrifice of absorbing the entire attack but as i already sayd melt slash is based on disintegration, there isn't the option of not aiming at the soul or core, if it's in its path then it gets erased. Rimuru just contained the damages. Also why do you say that it erases only the body?
"Speaking of which, this skill is still way too dangerous even if Hinata doesn’t intend to kill me. There is no way to evade this, against this skill my “Multilayer Barrier s” are like thin veils of paper. Those lights are unleashing energy to destroy the spiritrons of any matters—The Beam of Evil Dispel. My body would probably burn to ashes as soon as I get in contact with it."

In the official translation it even says that it was spiritual in nature.

edit: isee you talking about this:
Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration.”
But i guess is just a choice of words, this doesn't exclude the regeneration of spiritual body/core etc...

Right... But why Sonic?

idk, it looked like that old meme of sonic

this clearly does not account for the ability user themselves being unable to take it away.

That statament alone obviously doesn't. But then we end up knowing from Obera/Obela that unless you the autority or you are an ultimate existence you can't erase/take away your skill in the core. So we can say that that statament can be used even outside that context (as long as utority or you are an ultimate existence aren't mentioned).

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So Ciel completely contradicts his own actions in volume 7, it's one thing for Ciel to say such a thing while nothing in the LN shows a skill itself coming out of the nucleus, it's another thing for Ciel to declare such a thing when Rimuru and Raphael make it clear several times that the skill in itself is being sacrificed to stop the attack as a shield, not that Rimuru is letting the blow reach its core to specifically destroy that skill.

Except, it's not "contradicting", it's just you refusing to understand the fact that the skill did NOT come out of the soul/core and what was outside in the world was just the non-physical phenomenon, while ignoring all other proof whatsoever for a single manga panel that you yourself don't understand.

I didn't deny that disintegration affects the core, but nothing in vol 7 says that such a thing happened,

Reaching the Core is an intrinsic property of disintegration; it's not "such a thing happened", it's "such a thing always happens" because that's how the magic works.
Your claim is like saying "Okay, X-magic in general destroys the user at A-level, but prove that in this case that X-magic did the same as well" or "Fire magic in general is hot, but prove that this specific case of fire magic was hot, and not just cold fire". You're going out of the way to assume that the exceptional scenario is the case here and not the default scenario for no reason.

as I said, the meaning of "sacrificing" the skill completely loses its meaning, and the point is for the core skill to be destroyed/erasing to defend the core attack, nothing shows/evidences/declares that Melt Slash destroyed the invocation/use of Beelzebuth and directly destroyed the core skill, the sacrifice/erasure/destruction of the skill iself was something that Rimuru/Raphael himself did, not Hinata.

Argument from ignorance, you're assuming an exceptional case happened when by default we assume that the default case is what happened.

And I looked at the context, and Ciel doesn't say that it's impossible for the user itself of the skill to remove it, but rather that it's impossible for someone else to remove/steal it.

In context, it's referring to if Ciel herself can do it as well, and the answer is no.

For some reason you started off contradicting yourself. "Infinite regeneration doesn't use up massive amounts of energy" goes on to show scans of it using massive amounts of energy. Either way, the amount of magicules it requires was never a prerequisite to whether it qualifies for HGR in the first place.

I'm not sure why you're only referring to a specific part of the sandbox when later in the same sandbox I stated that it does require magicules, but only under specific scenarios.

As I mentioned previously, the existence of soul energy as a replacement for magicules still goes against the standard for HG as having soul energy still indicates the existence of one's core and consequently, it not being destroyed.

I used "Soul energy" as a replacement for regenerating physical body or soul without magicules, my man, not the core. That's your own assumption.

Nobody ever once confused what "direct hit" means neither did anyone think he would dodge. The fact the regeneration skill was brought up by Raphael already makes it clear it was in context of Rimuru being hit, simple deductive reasoning.

Except, for some people, that doesn't seem to be enough to conclude that. That's why I added it.

Where is the assumption Infinite regeneration was destroyed too even coming from? Only one skill was destroyed that being Beelzebuth and the only reason it was destroyed in the first place was because Rimuru defended himself with it.

Not really, Disintegration has the intrinsic property of being able to reach the core. In beelzebuth's case, only that skill was destroyed because it was directly used to defend from the attack, whereas in Raphael's assumption, Rimuru won't be doing something like "blocking via beelzebuth".

It is not only a massive leap of logic to assume the attack destroyed all other skills but then still contradict oneself by saying Raphael, another skill wasn't destroyed.

Not really, it only becomes a contradiction when you focus on a single statement from throughout the novel without taking in context of the attack's potency or anything else.

Did reading comprehension go on vacation or something? Even if Raphael got a separate core, it is still inside Rimuru not to mention nothing in the scan says Raphael is a exception.

My man, I'm wondering if that happened to you myself.

But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born. A self, to put it another way. There had to be one there or else a skill wouldn’t evolve in such rogue fashion in order to fulfill its master’s wishes

From the very scan you quote, you missed the only part you didn't highlight.

But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born. A self, to put it another way. There had to be one there or else a skill wouldn’t evolve in such rogue fashion in order to fulfill its master’s wishes

"In the corner of Rimuru's soul" means its inside his soul, but "in a heart he should never have had" means it's its own separate heart, not the heart that Rimuru[and every being] already has by default.

I smelt bull from this so I went in search of the full context and this isn't talking about Raphael gaining some heartcore of it's own, it's about it becoming sentient, gaining emotions. Either way, this doesn't make it some separate existence from Rimuru when it is still part of his soul.

The very act of being "sentient" and having "emotions" requires an ego and a heart core. If you don't know the physiology and don't care to read the physiology page to understand it, don't post.

I may not be an avid slime reader but I have read through volumes 1-6/7, followed the anime from the first season and this comes from volume 5. This is simply resurrection as their bodies are still there, Raphael isn't regenerating their souls, the anti-magic (?) erected in tempest prevented their souls from dissipating and Rimuru further strengthened the barrier so their souls are still very much there. They aren't being regenerated from scratch but are being repaired at best similar to their bodies.

On the topic of contradictions..."The term used here is also "Regeneration", not "Resurrect"." Doesn't that scan say he resurrected them?

Let me ask you, where did your memory of what resurrection and regeneration is go when writing this? Raphael is regenerating something that is already there, not "reviving something that is not there". If you really watched the anime, which I doubt it, you would have known that Raphael was clearly regenerating the wounds on their physical bodies, and in the LN, it also includes doing the same to the soul.

I also find something here interesting. Every mention of infinite regeneration is always in reference to the physical body be it Raphael saying Rimuru can regenerate his physical body instantly, Shion being said to be physically immortal,

Mind you, are you forgetting that Shion's case is "as long as the heart core remains intact"?

Rimuru not being sure he can regenerate by saying he can probably (emphasis on probably) regenerate his body if it's reduced to goo

The "from goo" was a mistranslation, from what I see, it's different in slimereader, and that the "probably" is there because Rimuru will eventually run out of magicules or soul energy, he can't do it infinitely, obviously.

Raphael is never stated to be separate, just sentient, gained emotions. Stop saying what isn't mentioned or implied in the scans, you're already notorious for this.
"Heart" is clearly referring to emotions here not the nucleic heart and even if Raphael did gain a nucleic heart of it's own, it is literally said to be in a corner of Rimuru's soul. Wouldn't being soulless further disprove the existence of a heartcore?

Except, that's the very thing that makes it have a heart core and an ego.
A being without a Soul is not necessarily one without a heart core. "Soul" itself refers to the crystallization of energy surrounding the heart core, that's explained very clearly in the physiology page.

You put a box within another box and shoot disintegration at it, why won't both boxes get nuked? Raphael cannot be in hos soul and not part of it, even if one concedes and says Raphael is not part of Rimuru's soul, it's still inside him.

Except, that part is already clarified in the later answers, so rather then reading each of those one at a time and replying to each separately, read the whole thing.

They call him 007, 0 statements, 0 feats, 7 contradicting assumptions backed by no scans. Where has Raphael separated itself before? Where is it said it backed itself up to the VoTW? We only allow assumptions such as these when they are backed by statements that support it.

Funny, suddenly there's no speed cap anymore. It was said infinite regen could regenerate rimuru faster than disintegration, meltslash can destroy him and the SoL cap was brought up. Since infinite regen can regenerate info particles as you're claiming and they move at immeasurable speed, nothing stops it from outperforming the erasure. The SoL cap as a counter was bull, simply regenerating at the same speed is enough to outlast an attack and simply because said attack travels at that speed doesn't mean the erasure is being done at that speed.

Funnily enough too, people forget in which case something is immeasurable speed and in which case its not. Data particles have imm speed because "one data particle can move to another data particle without any time lag". That applies to Raphael's escape in this assumption because it involves Raphael moving its data particles[as its heart core] to another point that Disintegration doesn't reach.

Why do we assume Infinite regen can't outperform Melt Slash[under the assumption that it can regenerate data particles]? Because it's not "moving" data particles, it's regenerating them from erasure. Movement is defined by displacement between two points, regeneration is bringing the erased data particles back into existence from nothing.

Something like "Regeneration speed" is not exactly like normal movement speed[info particles have immeasurable speed in the latter, they aren't shown to possess the same in the prior too, so no reason to assume they can].

So prior to the downgrade, why did everyone with infinite regen get HGR? If two skills aren't the same despite sharing the same name then they shouldn't be scalable to each other.

Why are you asking me that when you very clearly know that I didn't participate in those CRTs, nor was I even alive in VSBW at at that time?

There might be profiles that still share the same abilities by virtue of possessing the same skill as such they should be limited to their own feats. You don't get to pull this just cause it's convenient for you.

That depends on whether its cleared in the novel how different one version is different from another. Skills that are "intrinsic to a species" [such as all SLFs having Physical attack null] work the same.

Before you say, "But Rimuru's infinite regen was an intrinsic skill", that is intrinsic to his race as a demon slime; Shion is not a demon slime, not the same race, so again, not the same working".

However, skills obtained from evolution are different, precisely because such skills are shaped completely by the user's mind and will; if character A gains water manipulation while desiring something, and character B gains water manipulation desiring something else, the effects of both will be different.

It also depends on how the skills are obtained. Rimuru, for example, shares some skills because he has absorbed them from the original owner. In such a case, its the same skill because it's not something born from Rimuru's own mind from the beginning.

At this point I don't think I care about the thread again. Astral_Trinity is hereby excommunicated from the community of wankers.

So you don't care about the thread yet still come here to yap this much? What a nice joke.
Also, Poisoning the wall fallacy right there.

The scan in the message you linked not only once again contradicts your line of reasoning but also serves as an anti-feat to disintegration.

Two word, exceptions exist.
With enough reasoning, something can be listed as an exception; tho that doesn't mean everything should be an exception either, unless at least hinted in some way or another.

skills are information particles

Mind you, Skills are information written on information particles.

Before you ask the question "but Raphael has its own heart", that means it has its own independent set of information particles on which the info of the skill[Raphael itself] is written, with all of those info particles surrounding Raphael's ego/self.

Need I say more? No mention of info particles,

You do not need something to be mentioned every single time if its a common property of something, the concept of "Optional mention" exists.

the soul/spirit particles weren't even destroyed dispersed fully so the soul is very much intact along with the skills it houses.

Both contradict you and serve as an anti-feat. Magical elements refers to magicules, spiritual particles refer to spiritrons and things associated with it. Disintegration destroyed the magical elements but only scattered the spiritual particles meaning they were not destroyed. Secondly, his nucleic heart that is info particles clearly weren't destroyed or even scattered as you claim as Raphael only mentions magic and spirit particles and

Elsewhere its directly stated that Disintegration destroys/crushes them, both the spirit particles and the soul.

Damaging a heart core required spiritual particle–level interference. Without destroying them with Disintegration or the like, no one could touch the corresponding data particles.
~ Volume 19 OTL

“Let me provide you a prayer to the divine. I hope and desire for the power of the holy spirits. Listen to my appeal and overcome all in your way! Disintegration!!”

The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all.

A skill shouldn't be left after complete destruction, does this point need to be beaten into the supporters or what?

And might I remind you too that the very part of the OP you're replying to is about there being other outliers and exceptions?

• Is there any example that supports that Skills can work after core destruction and can regenerate data particles?

This brings something to light and it's that disintegration, meltslash doesn't actively target information particles. Beelzebuth was only destroyed because Rimuru sacrificed it, Hinata's attack didn't reach into the nucleic heart to destroy it, Rimuru himself exposed the skill to the attack.

Beelzebuth was the only thing sacrificed in that scenario because Raphael actively tried to use Beelzebuth's manifested phenomenon [the purple tornado or absorption hole thing you see in the anime or manga] to partially block Disintegration from destroying the whole core. Why "partial destruction"? Because Beelzebuth itself was still destroyed. Why do we assume it would have done complete destruction if Beelzebuth wasn't deployed? Because of other statements of it destroying the heart core itself.

I think this needs to be looked into. Are there any other feats of these two abilities actually destroying info particels cause this is a massive anti-feat. It's EE properties seem to stop at physical destruction (magic particles) and merely disperse the spiritual aspects leaving info particle that are even smaller than spirit particles unharmed in the process.

While Melt Slash isn't used much so I'm not sure, Disintegration is used and shown frequently, so here are a few examples;

Damaging a heart core required spiritual particle–level interference. Without destroying them with Disintegration or the like, no one could touch the corresponding data particles. Arius had Sandalphon, so if he was aware of this fact, he could’ve crushed both their heart cores…but Khan wasn’t too worried about that. Arius’s swordsmanship, physical strength, skills, and everything else were all top-notch; that much was no exaggeration, but his spirit hadn’t deviated from that of a normal human being. His experience with non-human fighting seemed to be close to nil, and he didn’t appear well-versed in how to finish off demons. Thus, Khan thought pretending to be dead would give him a chance to escape.

Now, to be clear, "Disintegration" itself, as a spell, operates on and utilizes Spirit Particles

After taking over Ludora’s body, Michael had made his vessel’s swordsmanship skills his own. Not even Michael could hope to reproduce Nova Break, Ludora’s most powerful technique, but anything that required spiritual particle manipulation was fair game for him. That included Disintegration, and that was the Overblade-class skill he chose for this bout.

Yet Spirit Particles themselves can penetrate data particles

However, legend had it that its purpose was different. Only a spiritual lifeform or one whose soul had the capacity to remember could endure this magic. Only those who could resurrect even after their physical bodies were completely destroyed could escape from it. The special particles that made up magicules—spiritrons—emitted a special wave. That was the dark light. It was difficult to fend against using magic and impossible to ward off physically. You could only counter the spiritrons by striking them with other spiritrons. Similarly, dark light could only be countered by dark light.

Once you were exposed to this light, your probability of dying was 99.999 percent. In rare cases, however, some people survived. One in a million would gain a new life by becoming a monster. In other words, this magic was also a magic of blessing, bearing the role of selecting people who had the superior aptitude.

This kind of magic was the most evil of forbidden spells.

It wasn’t like Disintegration, which was more of a physically-destructive force. This magic only penetrated the Information Particles, with perfect precision. It was the nuclear magic: Death Streak, the ultimate forbidden magic that could even destroy the “soul.”
~ Volume 13

Before you say "what does it it by disintegration being more of a physically destructive force", to put it in simple words, Disintegration does some thing like "smashing everything with spirit particles and destroying it" while Death Streak is more like "precisely only aiming for the information particles and not causing any direct physical harm"[harm from mutation due to this spell is counted separately].

It's like "If you cast disintegration on a wall, it will cease to exist both physically and spiritually[Data particles exist at the heart of all matter], but if you cast death streak on a wall, it will only rewrite the information on the data particles inside the wall's matter and cause indirect physical damage[not direct] by making the wall mutate].

Not only would this be resurrection and not regeneration,

Already explained in my earlier post to Elde.

you're suddenly contradicting yourself again by saying Raphael is a part of Rimuru's soul, actually resides within it.

Raphael itself is soulless as an independent entity [it only has a heart core], but it resides in Rimuru's soul, or, Rimuru's soul is a "host" for it. Take it as some spiritual entity using someone else's body as a host but it having its own spiritual identity; with the exception that in this specific case the composition is more fundamental.

Got any scans to prove Raphael can regenerate itself via VoTW?

Skills are themselves a part of the VoTW, so the point is that it can have a backup in VoTW for itself.
In its earlier stages even as great sage, it could forcefully make VoTW act in its place to help Rimuru and directly stated to have "World language/VoTW powers":

According to this Sage, it took ninety days for the skill to fully fuse itself with my soul. Normally, it would be unable to provide responses in the form of conversation, but in order to answer my questions, it apparently revamped itself, diverting part of its “World Language” powers to assist me. That’s how it was explained to me, at least.

That itself implies its specially related to VoTW and can use it. So Raphael, its evolutionary stage which is far superior to it, should obviously be able to do more.
This is backed up by the fact that in an alternate timeline, even when Rimuru didn't have Raphael nor any Ultimate Skill and had met Hinata for the first time before Falmuth arc, Great Sage could revive Rimuru even tho in that scenario[albeit over-time], his Heart core should have been reduced to nonexistence.

Before you say this is the game, know that this was written by Fuze himself, and a similar scenario from an alternate timeline was mentioned in the LN too, except this time it was the eastern empire, who are superior to Hinata in all aspects.

So given that Great Sage has some sort of special connection to VoTW, it's perfectly plausible that Raphael is the same and can even be one step ahead.

Also note that "Raphael having backup in VoTW" is one of the two scenarios in which it can assist Rimuru in regeneration when faced with a direct hit from disintegration, it's not the only scenario.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Holy yapping of the yappingtons

The master yappists have gathered here

 

[Dog3352]

Not a problem, Melt slash is disintegration on a sword (more or less) disintegration erases those things.
here from vol 19 about melt slash:

“’Melt Slash.”’

Michael, having taken over Rudra’s body, had already mastered his swordplay. It was impossible for the current Michael to recreate Rudra’s most powerful technique, the ‘Nova Break,’ but he was fully capable of using the most powerful sword techniques that manipulated one’s spirit. He was also adept at Disintegration and chosen to use the transcendental holy sword technique, ‘Overblade’ for this match. Rimuru, on the other hand, showed his hidden move without any hesitation.

Everyone knows this part, but it doesn't matter when everything in the LN says that that specific blow would only destroy Rimuru's body, and that fits more with what's happening there in every way.

Hinata doesn't want to kill Rimuru;
Hinata even tries not to destroy Rimuru's entire body, which would be a useless action if she were to destroy his core, ego and soul with that blow;
Beelzebuth says that even if that blow had hit Rimuru, it would regenerate Rimuru's physical body (she specified the physical body, which wouldn't be necessary if the blow wasn't going to destroy just the physical body, making it clear once again that only the body physique would be destroyed);
Hinata didn't want to kill Rimuru, and she knew that Rimuru would be able to survive/regenerate having (most of) his body destroyed, but she had no idea about him being able to regenerate having his soul, core and ego destroyed, therefore it makes no sense for her to destroy them with this attack.

Except that for reaching the core and erase belzebub you need to go trought the soul.. and belzebub is a part of the core.

Rimuru caused the attack to destroy the skill, basically he was the one who "transported" the attack to the core, this is completely different from the attack being used with the intention of destroying your core, soul and ego, if it weren't for Rimuru, the attack would clearly have destroyed only the physical body, as literally everything in the LN points out.

What hinata knows isn't really important.
Also she doesn't really have any control on how destructive Melt slash is so yeah her worrying is pointless. Expecially that part about Rimuru's head

Yes, what Hinata knows matters a lot at that moment, since Hinata was trying to make Rimuru survive, not knowing if Rimuru would be able to regenerate having his existence erased would be going completely against her goal, she just knew that Rimuru would survive/ would regenerate if its body (most of it) was destroyed, so destroying only the body fits perfectly with everything the LN points out.
And she wasn't making the attack weaker, she was aiming at another location to make sure there was some part of Rimuru's body left, which would be a useless action if she were going to attack him with the intention of destroying his soul, ego and core.

ONLY belzebub was destroyed thanks to the sacrifice of absorbing the entire attack but as i already sayd melt slash is based on disintegration, there isn't the option of not aiming at the soul or core, if it's in its path then it gets erased. Rimuru just contained the damages. Also why do you say that it erases only the body?
"Speaking of which, this skill is still way too dangerous even if Hinata doesn’t intend to kill me. There is no way to evade this, against this skill my “Multilayer Barrier s” are like thin veils of paper. Those lights are unleashing energy to destroy the spiritrons of any matters—The Beam of Evil Dispel. My body would probably burn to ashes as soon as I get in contact with it."

In the official translation it even says that it was spiritual in nature.

edit: isee you talking about this:
Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration.”
But i guess is just a choice of words, this doesn't exclude the regeneration of spiritual body/core etc...

This statement is yet another anti-feat, if Melt Slash is only declared to be able to erase/destroy spiritons, then it is not capable of destroying the ego and the core, neither of which have spiritons, only the soul (emergy Christian ) has spiritons.

That statament alone obviously doesn't. But then we end up knowing from Obera/Obela that unless you the autority or you are an ultimate existence you can't erase/take away your skill in the core. So we can say that that statament can be used even outside that context (as long as utority or you are an ultimate existence aren't mentioned).

I would like a scan of Ultima's statement, and even so, Rimuru's question and Ciel's answer talk specifically about one character stealing another's ability, not about the skill owner themselves taking the skill, so that statement still doesn't work , they are different subjects.

 

[Berga14]

Everyone knows this part, but it doesn't matter when everything in the LN says that that specific blow would only destroy Rimuru's body, and that fits more with what's happening there in every way.

1)"only" was never stated.
2) what you just sayd go against the very definition of that attack.
3) the fact that belzebub got erased is proof of that attack being able to destroy more.
4)just to reach the core it would have destroyed the soul.

Argument from repetition and ignorance, I won't be replying again if you continue yapping the same shit that has been debunked over and over again while you simply refuse to put the debunk in your head.
We can just wait for staff at this point, this crt has became unnecessary long.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

but it doesn't matter when everything in the LN says that that specific blow would only destroy Rimuru's body,

Mind you, where was "only" mentioned? Stop adding things that were never said or implied in the series, or just stay silent if you don't know a thing.

and that fits more with what's happening there in every way.

Except, no. That contradicts the whole plot of Disintegration being the "Strongest Offensive and Anti-persona[individual-erasing] Holy Magic that erases everything, be it Physical Body, Soul, or Heart Core". The "only physical body" is your own assumption and argument from ignorance.

At this point, the whole of your posts are arguments from repetition. If you don't have any other argument that's completely new and hasn't been addressed yet, then post, otherwise just stop. If you think your argument wasn't debunked, let the staff to come judge. I'm seriously getting tired of seeing this same ass argument from you over and over again that does not have any supporting point from the LN other than those that only exist in your mind.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

1)"only" was never stated.
2) what you just sayd go against the very definition of that attack.
3) the fact that belzebub got erased is proof of that attack being able to destroy more.
4)just to reach the core it would have destroyed the soul.

Argument from repetition and ignorance, I won't be replying again if you continue yapping the same shit that has been debunked over and over again while you simply refuse to put the debunk in your head.
We can just wait for staff at this point, this crt has became unnecessary long.

 

[Eisoks]

I feel like we're not making any progress arguing like this

 

[Dog3352]

Mind you, where was "only" mentioned? Stop adding things that were never said or implied in the series, or just stay silent if you don't know a thing.

Rimuru literally said that as long as Venom's soul remains intact he will survive the Melt Slash, this sounds completely contradictory to Melt Slash being able to destroy soul, core and ego.

 

[Bahaha]

Rimuru literally said that as long as Venom's soul remains intact he will survive the Melt Slash, this sounds completely contradictory to Melt Slash being able to destroy soul, core and ego.

Why are you using Rosso's "Melt Strike" technique to say Hinata's "Melt Slash" technique cannot do something? Even while saying both techniques use disintegration, Rosso's technique is weird because it uses beams of disintegration as piercing attacks instead of an anti-personal attack. Venom only survived in this situation because Rosso wasn't targeting him so disintegration only pierced some part of his soul.

 

[Dog3352]

Why are you using Rosso's "Melt Strike" technique to say Hinata's "Melt Slash" technique cannot do something? Even while saying both techniques use disintegration, Rosso's technique is weird because it uses beams of disintegration as piercing attacks instead of an anti-personal attack. Venom only survived in this situation because Rosso wasn't targeting him so disintegration only pierced some part of his soul.

The only difference between Melt Slash and Melt Strike is that Melt Strike casts Disintegration, they are still the same thing.
If the blow doesn't hurt the soul it won't erase the character, so why would we assume that Hinata's attack on Rimuru would erase it? The LN made it very clear that the attack would only erase the body.
Furthermore, Disintegrarion does not necessarily need to destroy everything that is in its path, since it is possible to control what the magic will and will not destroy, I think this was the last proof needed to say that Hinata's Melt Slash would not destroy Rimuru's entire existence, but only his physical body (as the LN points out).

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'm not sure why you're only referring to a specific part of the sandbox when later in the same sandbox I stated that it does require magicules, but only under specific scenarios.

Not important, was just wondering why you started off contradicting yourself

I used "Soul energy" as a replacement for regenerating physical body or soul without magicules, my man, not the core. That's your own assumption.

I ask again, does a simple fact need to be beaten into your head? The existence of magicules, spirit particles, information particles, skills etc after supposed complete destruction is an indication that the core has not been destroyed and doesn't support you in anyway. Know this and know peace.

Not really, Disintegration has the intrinsic property of being able to reach the core. In beelzebuth's case, only that skill was destroyed because it was directly used to defend from the attack, whereas in Raphael's assumption, Rimuru won't be doing something like "blocking via beelzebuth".

Genuinely asking here, show when else it did reach the core. I'm asking for feats not assumptions. Raphael simply said the physical body will be instantly regenerated, didn't say anything about soul or core.

Not really, it only becomes a contradiction when you focus on a single statement from throughout the novel without taking in context of the attack's potency or anything else.

Do you know what a contradiction is? x destroyed everything but somehow everything is still there?

My man, I'm wondering if that happened to you myself.

But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born. A self, to put it another way. There had to be one there or else a skill wouldn’t evolve in such rogue fashion in order to fulfill its master’s wishes

From the very scan you quote, you missed the only part you didn't highlight.

But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born. A self, to put it another way. There had to be one there or else a skill wouldn’t evolve in such rogue fashion in order to fulfill its master’s wishes

"In the corner of Rimuru's soul" means its inside his soul, but "in a heart he should never have had" means it's its own separate heart, not the heart that Rimuru[and every being] already has by default.

Give me a source on Raphael having a heartcore and this not being in reference to it becoming sentient with emotions. Being a separate heart still doesn't change the fact its inside Rimuru.

The very act of being "sentient" and having "emotions" requires an ego and a heart core. If you don't know the physiology and don't care to read the physiology page to understand it, don't post.

Source for that please and I mean a direct indicator not your usual cutting and joining of different scans. Once again, having a heartcore doesn't change the fact it is part of and inside rimuru.

Let me ask you, where did your memory of what resurrection and regeneration is go when writing this? Raphael is regenerating something that is already there, not "reviving something that is not there". If you really watched the anime, which I doubt it, you would have known that Raphael was clearly regenerating the wounds on their physical bodies, and in the LN, it also includes doing the same to the soul.

Two words, COMPLETE DESTRUCTION. This ain't HGR if Raphael has no feats of regenerating something from complete destruction. It was repairing their bodies, recombining their souls that was trapped in the barrier, none of that is regeneration from complete destruction, don't try to shift the goal post.

Mind you, are you forgetting that Shion's case is "as long as the heart core remains intact"?

The "from goo" was a mistranslation, from what I see, it's different in slimereader, and that the "probably" is there because Rimuru will eventually run out of magicules or soul energy, he can't do it infinitely, obviously.

Once again, Rimuru's too only indicates regeneration of the physical body. Can you send that translation? Rimuru prior made mention of running out of magicules, "Probably" in this case is an indicator of uncertainty especially in the context in which it is used.

Except, that's the very thing that makes it have a heart core and an ego.
A being without a Soul is not necessarily one without a heart core. "Soul" itself refers to the crystallization of energy surrounding the heart core, that's explained very clearly in the physiology page.

Show where Raphael is a separate entity, shekina. A body with two different souls, minds, concepts, personality etc are separate but as long as both inhabit the same vessel, an attack capable of interacting with those aspects should nuke the two. "IN A CORNER OF RIMURU'S SOUL" Raphael is inside him.

Except, that part is already clarified in the later answers, so rather then reading each of those one at a time and replying to each separately, read the whole thing.

You mean the part where you basically assume authorial intent? Let us know when you become Fuse, until then... 0 statements, 0 feats, 7 contradicting assumptions

Funnily enough too, people forget in which case something is immeasurable speed and in which case its not. Data particles have imm speed because "one data particle can move to another data particle without any time lag". That applies to Raphael's escape in this assumption because it involves Raphael moving its data particles[as its heart core] to another point that Disintegration doesn't reach.

Statements? Feats? Show us the goods toots. We don't need your statements, assumptions or theories, we need the author's statements, assumptions or theories.

Why are you asking me that when you very clearly know that I didn't participate in those CRTs, nor was I even alive in VSBW at at that time?

That depends on whether its cleared in the novel how different one version is different from another. Skills that are "intrinsic to a species" [such as all SLFs having Physical attack null] work the same.

Before you say, "But Rimuru's infinite regen was an intrinsic skill", that is intrinsic to his race as a demon slime; Shion is not a demon slime, not the same race, so again, not the same working".

However, skills obtained from evolution are different, precisely because such skills are shaped completely by the user's mind and will; if character A gains water manipulation while desiring something, and character B gains water manipulation desiring something else, the effects of both will be different.

So why are you equalizing both water manipulation skills? Stop jumping ships and choose where you stand.

So you don't care about the thread yet still come here to yap this much? What a nice joke.
Also, Poisoning the wall fallacy right there.

Nice attempt to throw people off. I said that in reference to you as a thread starter, I lost interest in since you seem to lack the capacity to crosscheck, proofread and ensure your arguments are foolproof. You ain't no wanker when you commit this many slip ups. You bring shame to the title "wanker" so as off that moment to me, you're excommunicado

Two word, exceptions exist.
With enough reasoning, something can be listed as an exception; tho that doesn't mean everything should be an exception either, unless at least hinted in some way or another.

You do not need something to be mentioned every single time if its a common property of something, the concept of "Optional mention" exists.

I honestly can't rn. For Pete's sake choose where you stand. First you claim exceptions, now under this same exception, you claim disintegration common property is always the same. This mans is a walking contradiction. "Common Property" why mention the magic and spirit particles then? Why were only the magic particles destroyed and spirit particles remained when Hinata intended to finish them off? Nah, this verse better find someone that can actually carry it cause astral is not "him".

Elsewhere its directly stated that Disintegration destroys/crushes them, both the spirit particles and the soul.

So why weren't they crushed here also, "crush" is not an indicator of erasure. Prelix spirit particles recombined- meaning they weren't destroyed- by a skill no less meaning it wasn't complete destruction meaning his/her info is still there meaning the core is intact. I'll say it again, any indication of a skill after supposed complete erasure without clarification the skill regenerated first is an anti-feat to your agenda.

And might I remind you too that the very part of the OP you're replying to is about there being other outliers and exceptions?

Then show them cause quite frankly, you haven't sown a single one. Was Prelix's absolute immortality another separate sentient skill like raphael? how is the skill remaining an exception?

Beelzebuth was the only thing sacrificed in that scenario because Raphael actively tried to use Beelzebuth's manifested phenomenon [the purple tornado or absorption hole thing you see in the anime or manga] to partially block Disintegration from destroying the whole core. Why "partial destruction"? Because Beelzebuth itself was still destroyed. Why do we assume it would have done complete destruction if Beelzebuth wasn't deployed? Because of other statements of it destroying the heart core itself.

Partially block? Naw, Beelzebuth gobbled that shit up, gave it that Gawk Gawk 3000 with double piston action and both consumed each other. It was never to stop it from reaching the core, it was to stop it from hitting Rimuru. Show those other statements of it destroying the heartcore.... looks like you did and what do we have here? Oh I'm gonna have a field day with this.

However, legend had it that its purpose was different. Only a spiritual lifeform or one whose soul had the capacity to remember could endure this magic. Only those who could resurrect even after their physical bodies were completely destroyed could escape from it. The special particles that made up magicules—spiritrons—emitted a special wave. That was the dark light. It was difficult to fend against using magic and impossible to ward off physically. You could only counter the spiritrons by striking them with other spiritrons. Similarly, dark light could only be countered by dark light.

Okay so new info

1. People included in the first bolded portion resist disintegration.
2. Those who can resurrect after physical destruction can escape from/survive it.

If they resist it, it's not completely destroying them so no complete destruction. No complete destruction= No HGR, might even affect MGR (from surviving disintegration) since this statement clearly only covers up to physical destruction. If they can resist something far deadlier than disintegration, meltslash, they sure as hell are resisting disintegration. Prelix as an example of someone that can resurrect only had his /her spirit particles scattered not erased so there's already evidence of this. More examples will indicate a pattern.

It wasn’t like Disintegration, which was more of a physically-destructive force. This magic only penetrated the Information Particles, with perfect precision. It was the nuclear magic: Death Streak, the ultimate forbidden magic that could even destroy the “soul.”

Bruh, thought I'd focus on "physically destructive force", sorry but I look at the bigger picture. First bolded portion put another way also means Disintegration doesn't always penetrate info particles,
Second bolded portion consequently also means Disintegration doesn't destroy the soul (credence once again lended by Prelix's spirit particles only being scattered). Why is something more dangerous than Disintegration being hyped by a statement like "it can even destroy the soul" if disintegration can destroy the soul always?
That's two pieces of evidence now (Prelix and Death streak), we now have a pattern, a third one will basically draw a conclusion to be drawn.

Here's some advice Astral, cover your bases, proofread your own scans, think about what could possibly be anti-feats and how it can comeback to bite you in the ass. You gotta stop giving me the tools I need to put you down.

While Melt Slash isn't used much so I'm not sure, Disintegration is used and shown frequently,

Don't care, they're the same except the latter is a sword art.

Raphael itself is soulless as an independent entity [it only has a heart core], but it resides in Rimuru's soul, or, Rimuru's soul is a "host" for it. Take it as some spiritual entity using someone else's body as a host but it having its own spiritual identity; with the exception that in this specific case the composition is more fundamental.

So it is inside Rimuru, you've admitted it yourself which means disintegration should nuke Raphael as well.

Skills are themselves a part of the VoTW, so the point is that it can have a backup in VoTW for itself.
In its earlier stages even as great sage, it could forcefully make VoTW act in its place to help Rimuru and directly stated to have "World language/VoTW powers":

I asked for feats not your assumptions or theories. Also "diverting it's world language" makes Raphael the subject and object in that sentence so it isn't referring to the VoTW. What here indicates a back up?

That itself implies its specially related to VoTW and can use it. So Raphael, its evolutionary stage which is far superior to it, should obviously be able to do more.
This is backed up by the fact that in an alternate timeline, even when Rimuru didn't have Raphael nor any Ultimate Skill and had met Hinata for the first time before Falmuth arc, Great Sage could revive Rimuru even tho in that scenario[albeit over-time], his Heart core should have been reduced to nonexistence.

Hinata had used Dead End Rainbow here, which destroys the Spiritual Body completely. Spiritual Lifeforms, that can regenerate from destruction of complete Physical Body, would have also died to this attack. Which means after Rimuru died, all that would be left is his Astral Body.

Great except none of this encompasses the requirements for HGR.

Before you say this is the game, know that this was written by Fuze himself, and a similar scenario from an alternate timeline was mentioned in the LN too, except this time it was the eastern empire, who are superior to Hinata in all aspects.

Once again doesn't cover HGR, says Rimuru was killed and great sage was still there.

So given that Great Sage has some sort of special connection to VoTW, it's perfectly plausible that Raphael is the same and can even be one step ahead.

It doesn't

Also note that "Raphael having backup in VoTW" is one of the two scenarios in which it can assist Rimuru in regeneration when faced with a direct hit from disintegration, it's not the only scenario.

Prove this directly, after that Raphael needs feats showing he can bring someone back from complete fundamental destruction.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Everyone knows this part, but it doesn't matter when everything in the LN says that that specific blow would only destroy Rimuru's body, and that fits more with what's happening there in every way.

Hinata doesn't want to kill Rimuru;
Hinata even tries not to destroy Rimuru's entire body, which would be a useless action if she were to destroy his core, ego and soul with that blow;
Beelzebuth says that even if that blow had hit Rimuru, it would regenerate Rimuru's physical body (she specified the physical body, which wouldn't be necessary if the blow wasn't going to destroy just the physical body, making it clear once again that only the body physique would be destroyed);
Hinata didn't want to kill Rimuru, and she knew that Rimuru would be able to survive/regenerate having (most of) his body destroyed, but she had no idea about him being able to regenerate having his soul, core and ego destroyed, therefore it makes no sense for her to destroy them with this attack.

Rimuru caused the attack to destroy the skill, basically he was the one who "transported" the attack to the core, this is completely different from the attack being used with the intention of destroying your core, soul and ego, if it weren't for Rimuru, the attack would clearly have destroyed only the physical body, as literally everything in the LN points out.

Yes, what Hinata knows matters a lot at that moment, since Hinata was trying to make Rimuru survive, not knowing if Rimuru would be able to regenerate having his existence erased would be going completely against her goal, she just knew that Rimuru would survive/ would regenerate if its body (most of it) was destroyed, so destroying only the body fits perfectly with everything the LN points out.
And she wasn't making the attack weaker, she was aiming at another location to make sure there was some part of Rimuru's body left, which would be a useless action if she were going to attack him with the intention of destroying his soul, ego and core.

This statement is yet another anti-feat, if Melt Slash is only declared to be able to erase/destroy spiritons, then it is not capable of destroying the ego and the core, neither of which have spiritons, only the soul (emergy Christian ) has spiritons.

I would like a scan of Ultima's statement, and even so, Rimuru's question and Ciel's answer talk specifically about one character stealing another's ability, not about the skill owner themselves taking the skill, so that statement still doesn't work , they are different subjects.

You are literally distorting everything, I guess your arguments could be added as addressed (you are just distorting things).

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Rimuru literally said that as long as Venom's soul remains intact he will survive the Melt Slash, this sounds completely contradictory to Melt Slash being able to destroy soul, core and ego.

Pls actually read the context before you start yapping. Do me a favor and read a little farther so you can see what happened to hinata even though she didn’t get directly hit (which melt slash does) she got hit by melt strike which aims at one part and she was still getting erased.

 

[Bahaha]

The only difference between Melt Slash and Melt Strike is that Melt Strike casts Disintegration, they are still the same thing.
If the blow doesn't hurt the soul it won't erase the character, so why would we assume that Hinata's attack on Rimuru would erase it? The LN made it very clear that the attack would only erase the body.
Furthermore, Disintegrarion does not necessarily need to destroy everything that is in its path, since it is possible to control what the magic will and will not destroy, I think this was the last proof needed to say that Hinata's Melt Slash would not destroy Rimuru's entire existence, but only his physical body (as the LN points out).

That is not what you said. You said Venom was fine being hurt by "Melt Slash", but Hinata's technique never hit him. This is ignorance at best and willfully lying at worst.

"Melt Strike" has a fundamentally different usage from "Melt Slash". "Melt Strike" is a piercing attack with small disintegration beams, while "Melt Slash" is an anti-personal attack that cloaks the user in disintegration. Getting hit in a small area by "Melt Strike" does not mean the person's whole existence is being hit. The attack only aims at small parts of the individual, which can allow demons and spiritual lifeforms like Venom to regenerate their erased soul part quickly. Rosso's technique was created to increase the range of disintegration to pierce and hit enemies from far away, I do not know how you can compare the two vastly different techniques to fit your agenda.

 

[Tatsumi504]

That is not what you said. You said Venom was fine being hurt by "Melt Slash", but Hinata's technique never hit him. This is ignorance at best and willfully lying at worst.

"Melt Strike" has a fundamentally different usage from "Melt Slash". "Melt Strike" is a piercing attack with small disintegration beams, while "Melt Slash" is an anti-personal attack that cloaks the user in disintegration. Getting hit in a small area by "Melt Strike" does not mean the person's whole existence is being hit. The attack only aims at small parts of the individual, which can allow demons and spiritual lifeforms like Venom to regenerate their erased soul part quickly. Rosso's technique was created to increase the range of disintegration to pierce and hit enemies from far away, I do not know how you can compare the two vastly different techniques to fit your agenda.

Melt slash was also stated by Rimuru to have a limited range because it is a sword slash wasn't it? Y'all ficklely change your stances and contradict yourselves when it's convenient for you.

 

[Berga14]

Melt slash was also stated by Rimuru to have a limited range because it is a sword slash wasn't it? Y'all ficklely change your stances and contradict yourselves when it's convenient for you.

Yep, it isn't an art that can wipe put several people, it's range is limited to 1 and a bit more (based on the fact that the magicules around Rimuru got erased/purificated). And it's very limited compared to Veldora dragon body. Melt strick is even more limited as those beams can't hit the entirety of a person.

 

[Bahaha]

Melt slash was also stated by Rimuru to have a limited range because it is a sword slash wasn't it? Y'all ficklely change your stances and contradict yourselves when it's convenient for you.

Please quote where I said "Melt Slash can hit multiple people!" or anything like the sort. Better yet, please quote ANYONE in this thread that has said that. You have NOT brought up any single counter-argument against my post. Thanks for grouping up a group of random people and not providing ANY argument.

Melt Slash is an "anti-personal" technique that is used to annihilate a single target. I've said this MULTIPLE times. Melt Strike is a projectile-type penetration technique that creates TINY BEAMS. so these two techniques are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I hope this uppercase text helps get this through to you that you can not compare Melt Strike with Melt Slash.

 

[Robo432343]

i like how only anos fans are disagreeing
(im changing to neutral because of Tatsumi's argument)