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Super Sonic Rebuff

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I know that, but the fact is; just because a Robot is stated to be "Their latest and most powerful creation" doesn't mean it's assumed to actually be legit. Especially since the same robot doesn't explicitly have feats and literally everything Eggman invention by Chaos Emeralds peaks at Tier 5.
 
-Again consistency doesn't matter when the feat is insignificant to a superior feat that isn't an outlier you continuously ignore this.

-Again Metal Sonic is superior to the FEB's Firepower because it's an official quote,your overcomplicating things just to prevent an upgrade at this point.

-Dark Gaia and Light Gaia would scale to Super Sonic for being 4-A it's not hard to understand this.Yiu continue to over complicate things.Link is LS Level but when ever he swings his sword he doesn't destroy the planet your using faulty logic as to why Dark Gaia and Light Gaia wouldn't scale

-Why are we discussing 5-B stuff when we agreed we would save it for the other thread

-I explained why Cal's example doesn't work as the 2-A gap is infinite in size and this is not
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know that, but the fact is; just because a Robot is stated to be "Their latest and most powerful creation" doesn't mean it's assumed to actually be legit. Especially since the same robot doesn't explicitly have feats and literally everything Eggman invention by Chaos Emeralds peaks at Tier 5.
Click to expand...
But it's simple scaling Metal Overlord must be more powerful and have more firepower than the FEB by offical statements at this point we're ignoring quotes and offical statements and letting our own personal interpretations of a feat take over
 
Sorry for the triple post.

Weaker machines had a charge time, It doesn't mean that Eggman wouldn't use the same power on his top tier machines, his other machines don't even have feats so you can't say it's a outlier.

The Eclipse Cannon isn't created by Eggman, the emeralds simply unlock Emerl progaming, they don't give him power or else Sonic wouldn't have beatten him, Dark Gaia never used the emeralds power, they simply awakened him and he was weakened because it wasn't the time of awakening, destructive potention is diferent from Ap, and Sonic had no problems stopping the Final Hazard, Shadow faleid due to not using a super form correctely,and the Master Emerald had neutralized the Chaos Emeralds so the planet statment isn't valid for the Final Hazard.

Being a staff member doesn't make your opinions better than other knowledgeable members who agree with the upgrade.

It's not the same thing because we aren't making all Eggman's inventions 4-A, only the ones that logicaly should be as strong as the FEB, give context of those other franchises before making comparassions
 
Because the other Eggman top tier machines should be as strong as It, the other Eggman machines have no feats other than fighting Super Sonic
 
The real cal howard said:
Imagine having a single 4-A feat (that nobody does jack to) out of dozens upon dozens of games and calling that "consistent"
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Except you have an offical quote stating that one of Eggman's machines is more powerful than it

And again Consistency shouldn't matter with a lower teir feat when you have a higher teir feat that's not an outlier and is supported by canon statements.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know that, but the fact is; just because a Robot is stated to be "Their latest and most powerful creation" doesn't mean it's assumed to actually be legit. Especially since the same robot doesn't explicitly have feats and literally everything Eggman invention by Chaos Emeralds peaks at Tier 5.
Click to expand...
The quote was from an offical manual stating "Metal Sonic/Overlord is Eggman's most powerful creation he's ever made"
 
@Oblivian, you never gave explanations for why Eggman being able to construct a 4-A from the ground up isn't an outlier. 2nd, Sega saying Metal Overlord is the strongest weapon is no different than Eggman calling Egg Breaker the same thing; which Egg Breaker is an invention losing to Base Shadow.

I never brought base Sonic level characters as the ground point, only that even things powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds have no feats exceeding 5-A and often struggle to perform those same feats.

None of those characters have any proof of surviving the Final Egg Blaster and even Ultimate Emerl powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds was literally destroyed by even the radiation of the Final Egg Blaster as mentioned by Cal.

I did say I'm not used to photoshopping, or showing a few Discord posts, but there are some sentences he said. I remember when I was actually one of the people who pushed for 4-A Super Sonic based on the Final Egg Blaster. Not saying it means anything, I was just reminiscing. And here's something Matt said when I talked to him about it, Yeah I agree it is inconsistent. It's not much, but they both trust each other and talk about those kind of stuff regularly. And not going to go too far, but last I heard, they both thing Super Sonic should just be 5-A in general with everything higher than that being outliers or PIS. Everlasting did say there's actually no canonical proof of Chaos Emeralds fluctuating rather than it simply being a massive inconsistency. And they did say other reasons, but I'm still all for Tier 2 high ends remaining given what Sera worked hard for.

But, I doubt 4-A is returning. I used more than just their names, I also used my own reasoning and scientific details about the consistency of the verse. There are plenty of feats that are far less controversial and more consistent that got passed as outliers. Wokistan himself also says he doesn't agree with 4-A returning due to inconsistency and using nothing but one statement being the back up. It's still best for 5-A to 2-C to be the variable for Super Sonic and each of the end game bosses to be 5-A. Even 5-A is arguably better than what most of those end game bosses have.
 
We already know neither of them agree though. There's no reason to care about that until why is explained.

I'm fine with the tier 2, but do agree with the strongest thing. IF he hadn't also said that about the egg breaker, metal sonic being strongest scaling him to 4-A would make more sense, since he's a super form boss and even during that fight invulnerable for a while. That Eggman throws around such superlatives with reference to normal machines does devalue the statement of strongest though.
 
I did prove that the FEB isn't a outlier because most of other machines don't even have feats other than fighting Super Sonic.

Emerl doesn't use the power of the emeralds, they simply unlock his progaming, otherwise Sonic wouldn't be able to fight him in base, I already explaneid why most of the other machines aren't 5-A at best in my previous comment.

Sega is more realible than Eggman, he's know for exagerating his ego, there's no reason that Sega would as well.

The arguments that those two brought aren't good, they being adims doesn't make their opinion better than ours
 
Metal Overlord also doesn't really have feats and was defeated by Super Sonic the same way Perfect Chaos was. And even the Final Egg Blasters low end Tier 5 was treated as being extremely fetal to Perfect Emerl; someone who supposedly was powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds would would theoretically be comparable to Metal Overlord.
 
Wokistan said:
We already know neither of them agree though. There's no reason to care about that until why is explained.

I'm fine with the tier 2, but do agree with the strongest thing. IF he hadn't also said that about the egg breaker, metal sonic being strongest scaling him to 4-A would make more sense, since he's a super form boss and even during that fight invulnerable for a while. That Eggman throws around such superlatives with reference to normal machines does devalue the statement of strongest though.
Click to expand...
It was Sega that said that Overlord was his most powerful machine, not Eggman
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Metal Overlord also doesn't really have feats and was defeated by Super Sonic the same way Perfect Chaos was. And even the Final Egg Blasters low end Tier 5 was treated as being extremely fetal to Perfect Emerl; someone who supposedly was powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds would would theoretically be comparable to Metal Overlord.
Click to expand...
The FEB doesn't have a tier 5 feat, and the emeralds simply unlock Emerl progaming, they don't increase his power, the Overlord can only be hurt with a Team blast, meanwhile Chaos is hurt by regular attacks
 
@Wok

The thing is Eggman was using hyperbolic language when describing the Egg breaker while the Metal Sonic statement is an offical quote from a manual

Anyway,shouldn't possibly 4-A work? Idc about 4-A being added but just to end this in a compromise we can have possibly 4-A as this debate will literally never end.This also isn't really giving special treatment when this has happened with many other verses before
 
Yeah, and take everything within several AU with it. Death Egg would be in the radius if it were a 4-A attack. And before anyone says AoE fallacy, no. FEB has interstellar range and thenfeat in question has range.
 
Well, even the Final Egg Blaster was pretty much depleted after one use for its 4-A attack and the same weapon also has another use that was at best Tier 5. Never said Metal Overlord has a Tier 5 feat, just that it's featless and lacks any reason to be more than that. It's never directly been compared to Final Egg Blaster. The Egg Blaster is also a glass cannon and Eggman has never built anything with comparable durability; that's the actual important thing that needs proof.
 
The FEB is a 4-A weapon, Eggman never wanted it to fire at the planet, only use it to break Emerl link with Sonic, If Eggman can make a machine with 4-A Ap then why wouldn't he use that power on his strongest mechs?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, even the Final Egg Blaster was pretty much depleted after one use for its 4-A attack and the same weapon also has another use that was at best Tier 5. Never said Metal Overlord has a Tier 5 feat, just that it's featless and lacks any reason to be more than that. It's never directly been compared to Final Egg Blaster.
Click to expand...
-Proof that the Final Egg Blaster was depleted?Sounds like a headcanon?

-assuming it's charge alters it's destructive power is a headcanon as well there's no proof to support it

-The quote states is literally comparing Metal Overlord being stronger than the FEB
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, even the Final Egg Blaster was pretty much depleted after one use for its 4-A attack and the same weapon also has another use that was at best Tier 5. Never said Metal Overlord has a Tier 5 feat, just that it's featless and lacks any reason to be more than that. It's never directly been compared to Final Egg Blaster. The Egg Blaster is also a glass cannon and Eggman has never built anything with comparable durability; that's the actual important thing that needs proof.
Click to expand...
The FEB was never depleted, It was going to literaly be used on the Earth after firing, weaker machines had charge times, that means nothing, the FEB doesn't have a tier 5 feat, don't know what you are talking about

When he's said to be Eggman's strongest machine by Sega that's a direct comparassion being the strongest would mean that It has the same Ap as the FEB and Sonic can tank it's attacks and trade blows with him, so he would have the same durability as his attack power
 
I have to go to work soon, so I'll be unable to comment in 10 hours.
 
So much oof... on this thread!.

Anyway I'm neutral with the 4-A tiering (like others I'm just waiting for the 5-B thread. EDIT;nvm I found it) however I agree that we should be clear-cut between factual statements and creative "interpretation".
 
Alright, I'm back to restate what I think since I saw some arguments on it.

I'm neutral on 4-A being the low-end of Super Forms. 5-A is fine with me. However, having 5-A as a low end and 4-A as an in-between for the Tier 5 and Tier 2 is what I can agree on. So I'm all for 4-A returning, and indifferent to it returning as the low end.
 
Same Shake, even though the other Eggman machines that fought Super Sonic should at least have a possibily rating
 
Yes!!!!I forgot 4-A being the middle is what I agree on not it being the high end I hope that didn't confuse anyone.I want 2-C to remain as high end.Essentially I agree with Shake
 
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