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You know I already agree but the person who wrote the blog on the FEB agrees that it would scale to Super Forms
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Super Sonic Rebuff
- Thread starter The_Smashor
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The Blog was written by Lina Shields a long time ago, and has long since left the Wiki. But that was also long before other details were found and long before Super Sonic was even Tier 2 to begin with. Anyway, back to the chase.
Again, using Sega's statement about Metal Overlord being his strongest invention should not be taken literally without legitimate feats. Sega also said Infinite was Sonic's greatest threat when he was obviously not. We also shouldn't take everything Sega or Eggman say literally, and instead each of the inventions should just scale from their own feats. Unless they have no feats, but would generally scale from some baselines. Darth Sidious had more than just a statement, he was also shown to stomp Luke and Vader. And in the ESU version, he also tanked the epic Death Star's destruction when Vader couldn't. No one has a single feat of tanking the Final Egg Blaster's shot at point blank. Statements =/= feats unless it elaborates a lore or backstory. Not just a introduction hype for the costumers.
Furthermore, it's not like its ever explained what type of metal Eggman's inventions are made of, but that would also be important. We don't know the existence of any sort of super metal that could withstand the point blank Final Egg Blaster, but that would be the one thing we would need proof to upgrade Metal Overlord to 4-A, let alone all the mechs that are well below it. But there isn't; there's no proof that Metal Overlord has more firepower than Final Egg Blaster, nor is there any proof that it has durability to withstand it. FEB is also a case in point glass cannon. In fact, he would be implied to being made of the same metal as regular Metal Sonic, which only has Tier 6 durability. And would only be more durable due to Chaos Power.
Anyway, it's best to keep 5-A as the low end and the high end of being 2-C is what would serve as being above FEB. But through its own feats rather than assumed scaling. The 4-A has never been used to directly scale to anything at all period and should just be its own thing.
Again, using Sega's statement about Metal Overlord being his strongest invention should not be taken literally without legitimate feats. Sega also said Infinite was Sonic's greatest threat when he was obviously not. We also shouldn't take everything Sega or Eggman say literally, and instead each of the inventions should just scale from their own feats. Unless they have no feats, but would generally scale from some baselines. Darth Sidious had more than just a statement, he was also shown to stomp Luke and Vader. And in the ESU version, he also tanked the epic Death Star's destruction when Vader couldn't. No one has a single feat of tanking the Final Egg Blaster's shot at point blank. Statements =/= feats unless it elaborates a lore or backstory. Not just a introduction hype for the costumers.
Furthermore, it's not like its ever explained what type of metal Eggman's inventions are made of, but that would also be important. We don't know the existence of any sort of super metal that could withstand the point blank Final Egg Blaster, but that would be the one thing we would need proof to upgrade Metal Overlord to 4-A, let alone all the mechs that are well below it. But there isn't; there's no proof that Metal Overlord has more firepower than Final Egg Blaster, nor is there any proof that it has durability to withstand it. FEB is also a case in point glass cannon. In fact, he would be implied to being made of the same metal as regular Metal Sonic, which only has Tier 6 durability. And would only be more durable due to Chaos Power.
Anyway, it's best to keep 5-A as the low end and the high end of being 2-C is what would serve as being above FEB. But through its own feats rather than assumed scaling. The 4-A has never been used to directly scale to anything at all period and should just be its own thing.
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Just saying we're gonna wait until 5-B Base is concluded
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I agreeNeon Battle Bind said:
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Btw, should I continue my slaughtering here?
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There will be know violence on this thread, Mr President. This is also why I voted for Vermin Supreme, so we have free ponies for all users here.
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Ofc. It was sarcasm. There's also no dictionary on this thread for you as it seems.
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We can't shaft Metal Overlord's statement for being just a statement, especially when it's from very reliable sources. All statements of how powerful the new villain is across every series exist to generate hype, which does not make them less reliable, and authors don't know about powerscaling just as much as they don't know about math. That is rather obsessive about feats...
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It's not really that reliable of Infinite's statement was from the same source and not reliable at all. "Author's not knowing math" was my point exactly; and they didn't even have Final Egg Blaster on their mind when they made Sonic Heroes. They only compared him to other mechs, not every single invention. Metal Overlord still has 0 proof of being able to tank Final Egg Blaster at point blank range.
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Did Sidious' statements have the other tier 4 force users in mind when they were made? And that's not even considering how there are several different Sith who have been described as the strongest. When it comes to Infinite, he straight-up created a star that was going to vaporize Earth, I don't know why he's so low.
Overlord was said as the strongest creation, not strongest mech, which means in general, and the proof is "strongest creation" plus the emeralds being the only thing that could stop him, despite the FEB.
Overlord was said as the strongest creation, not strongest mech, which means in general, and the proof is "strongest creation" plus the emeralds being the only thing that could stop him, despite the FEB.
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There's proof, though, the fact that Overlord is his strongest creation, the fact that Eggman thought that it was impossible to beat him without the emeralds, and the fact that Eggman would use similar power on his inventions that have similar purposes ( being the strongest) and same amount of prep time.
The Infinte statment was from a trailer, meanwhile Metal statment is from a guide, it's diferent.
If Metal has the same Ap as the FEB and can trade blows with Super Sonic then he also has 4-A durability, there's no necessity of a special metal.
Let's wait for 5-B to be concluded first
The Infinte statment was from a trailer, meanwhile Metal statment is from a guide, it's diferent.
If Metal has the same Ap as the FEB and can trade blows with Super Sonic then he also has 4-A durability, there's no necessity of a special metal.
Let's wait for 5-B to be concluded first
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Again to follow up the quote is from an offical manual (just like the sidious quote) so it's not using hyperbolic language or is it being stated by Eggman.Sega is telling us straight up Metal Overlord is his most powerful creation he created by himself.Also stating the 7 Chaos Emeralds are weaker than some obscure weapon Eggman never uses again to kill Super Sonic is ridiculous
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I think at least 5-A likely 4-A is fine for Metal.
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'''likely''' seems to make the most sense as I can understand the hesitation with the opposition.
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The Manual isn't always correct either, and the Sidious statement also has other details. That also has a statement about Dark Vader being 80% of Sidious' power from official scans. But obviously that's not the case given the gap between 5-B and 4-B or FTL Vs Massively FTL. Plus the reason Sidious is 4-B is based on his own feats and/or trading blows with characters who also have a 4-B, not based on one random statement that's too vague.
Also again, weapon/vehicle scaling isn't linear compared to character scaling. In verses such as Star Wars or Dragon Ball, simply saying character A is stronger than character B is linear enough. But it's not the case if someone builds a Robot calling it his most powerful creation, when a certain Satellite weapon far surpasses it in terms of sheer firepower, and said Robot was later destroyed by something less impressive then the former, then that goes to show the inconsistency. Let alone the fact that he has many robots that are considered almost as powerful as Metal Overlord that also peak at Tier 5, struggle to do Tier 5 feats, or require massive amounts of prep time in order to to a Tier 5 feat in the first place. That goes to show Eggman shouldn't even be capable of producing a 4-A weapon in the first place.
Also a side note, Metal Overlord can't really trade blows with Super Sonic; neither one are capable of harming the other. And there's still no known super metal with 4-A durability that Eggman seems to have. No one has any 4-A durability feats or any direct 4-A attack potency feats outside of FEB. And even FEB's 4-A destruction feat is a one time thing. Overlord is more durable but at the same time has less Attack Potency than Dark Gaia.
Also again, weapon/vehicle scaling isn't linear compared to character scaling. In verses such as Star Wars or Dragon Ball, simply saying character A is stronger than character B is linear enough. But it's not the case if someone builds a Robot calling it his most powerful creation, when a certain Satellite weapon far surpasses it in terms of sheer firepower, and said Robot was later destroyed by something less impressive then the former, then that goes to show the inconsistency. Let alone the fact that he has many robots that are considered almost as powerful as Metal Overlord that also peak at Tier 5, struggle to do Tier 5 feats, or require massive amounts of prep time in order to to a Tier 5 feat in the first place. That goes to show Eggman shouldn't even be capable of producing a 4-A weapon in the first place.
Also a side note, Metal Overlord can't really trade blows with Super Sonic; neither one are capable of harming the other. And there's still no known super metal with 4-A durability that Eggman seems to have. No one has any 4-A durability feats or any direct 4-A attack potency feats outside of FEB. And even FEB's 4-A destruction feat is a one time thing. Overlord is more durable but at the same time has less Attack Potency than Dark Gaia.
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It is a diferent case with Palpatine and Vader, it came from diferent sources.
But all of Eggman's machines are weapons, we are comparing weapons, I already explaneid in my previous post why 4-A isn't inconsistant and that Eggman doesn't struggle making 5-A mechs, that is false.
If Metal has 4-A Ap via being superior to the FEB and Super Sonic can tank his attacks but not Perfect Dark Gaia ones and can trade blows with him is proof of Super Sonic having 4-A Ao, só he not being able to harm Overlord with normal attacks is proof of his durability, If metal was important all of Eggman's machines would be 9-B since Eggman uses the same metal in all of them
But all of Eggman's machines are weapons, we are comparing weapons, I already explaneid in my previous post why 4-A isn't inconsistant and that Eggman doesn't struggle making 5-A mechs, that is false.
If Metal has 4-A Ap via being superior to the FEB and Super Sonic can tank his attacks but not Perfect Dark Gaia ones and can trade blows with him is proof of Super Sonic having 4-A Ao, só he not being able to harm Overlord with normal attacks is proof of his durability, If metal was important all of Eggman's machines would be 9-B since Eggman uses the same metal in all of them
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Theuser789 said:
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It's not just the metal, but also the fact that Eggman regularly uses other power sources. Anything higher than Tier 6 would usually required Chaos Power. Most of his best Tier 6 robots are powered by the life energy of Woodland creatures also. Weapons and vehicles either need their feats and/or calcs, be made of a material and/or energy source to scale from Superhuman characters. Note that Toon Force also counts as one of these power sources. Reason while most of the boss Mechs scaling from Base Sonic is fine, unless Sonic canonically stomps them; then they should be less than that. It's not like Marvel/DC bullets or Batman's batarangs are treated as 4-B.
I'm still strongly against making every single End Game boss mech 4-A when even 5-A is actually pretty generous; especially ones that are implied to be "stomped" by Super Sonic.
I'm still strongly against making every single End Game boss mech 4-A when even 5-A is actually pretty generous; especially ones that are implied to be "stomped" by Super Sonic.
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The Advance one and two robots can fight Super Sonic without using a special power source, that's why I want to upgrade them to 4-A, they already are 5-A, they don't need a special metal,no robot is made with one, we aren't making all Eggman's machines 4-A, only the ones that had the same amount of prep time and similar purposes, the Marvel and Dc comparassion isn't valid
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You guys know that Palpatine actually is responsible for cosmic events in the novels, right? It's not just arbitrary scaling.
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They should be 4-A via Eggman making them as strong as the FEB, not from Super Sonic
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And Eggman thought that beating Overlord was impossible without the emeralds, it's not just a statmentThe real cal howard said:
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How does that change whether or not Overlord was 5-A or 4-A? Also keep in mind Eggman has exaggerated in the past, lest we stop scaling Super Sonic to the Power of the Stars because Eggman said that they were above the Emeralds.
Btw, what does it say in the JP version?
Btw, what does it say in the JP version?
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It's more than M-Overlord has.
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Because Eggman can make 4-A mechs, also he only exagerates when the robots are on his side not against it, that's why we consider his Solaris statment valid
He says in the jp version that Metal is praticaly invencible and we can't fight him at all and then says If only we had the 7 Chaos Emeralds:https://youtu.be/o9ikcBXUnsE
He says in the jp version that Metal is praticaly invencible and we can't fight him at all and then says If only we had the 7 Chaos Emeralds:https://youtu.be/o9ikcBXUnsE
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Let me rephrase that. I'm sorry, I was confusing.
What does he JP version say about the FEB. I wanna see if this is another "Hoshi" problem.
What does he JP version say about the FEB. I wanna see if this is another "Hoshi" problem.
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@Cal The circumstances aren't the same though. With the Power of the Stars, Eggman was excited about the prospect of a new source of power he could use to defeat Sonic once and for all, so it would make sense for him to have overestimated the PoTS when the Egg Wizard ended up getting its ass handed to it by Super Sonic and Burning Blaze.
I don't think Eggman would have any real reason to exaggerate Metal Overlord's abilities when that was originally his creation and was afraid of what it could do now that he lost control over it.
I don't think Eggman would have any real reason to exaggerate Metal Overlord's abilities when that was originally his creation and was afraid of what it could do now that he lost control over it.
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All I could find was a playthrough of the jp version which has the same dialogue as the English version:https://youtu.be/QxqOpvKfglo
Wiindii didn't translate Battle but his translation of Shadow had pierce stars:https://youtu.be/dEwBHc9jb9Y ( 3:34)
Wiindii didn't translate Battle but his translation of Shadow had pierce stars:https://youtu.be/dEwBHc9jb9Y ( 3:34)
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It's also important that Eggman can't just up and build a FEB. It was a boost to the Death Egg for crying out loud. Overlord was a giant threat, but also an immediate threat.
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The FEB was a a cannon in the Death Egg, not a boost, and I already explaneid why it isn't special
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Most powerful weapon on something else Eggman calls his ultimate weapon. I'm sorry but you're wrong there. It totally is special.
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Eggman calls all of his new inventions his greatest one, I even have a example of him doing that after the FEB, meanwhile Metal statment is from a guide, not Eggman and when the the same though beating Overlord was impossible when there's no benifit from exagerating
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Except unlike everything else which isn't one and done, the Death Egg is a reoccurring threat. And so is Infinite, as DDM pointed out. The Final Egg Blaster is a superweapon attached to a superweapon that's hasn't been destroyed without a chain reaction. Overlord has nothing but a single statement of hype to have it going for it, and Eggman saying that only the Chaos Emeralds could stop him was true. He can can't build both the Death Egg and the FEB to stop Overlord.
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Except he can, the way that he says was like nothing he built could beat him, or else he would ask Sonic and Co to distract Overlord while he built something, there's also the guide which calls him his strongest invention.
Infinte is only said in to be the strongest in a trailer, a japanese trailer to be exact and only in one, also the Death Egg is not the FEB, only in Battle is the FEB, it's a one time invention, It being part of the Death Egg is like saying that the Death Egg robot is also part of the Death Egg
Infinte is only said in to be the strongest in a trailer, a japanese trailer to be exact and only in one, also the Death Egg is not the FEB, only in Battle is the FEB, it's a one time invention, It being part of the Death Egg is like saying that the Death Egg robot is also part of the Death Egg
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Also in Runners several characters can one-shoot the Death Egg
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Oblivion Lightning said:
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In a related note, many sources say Mewtwo is the strongest Pokémon. Guess who's only in the Mid-High tier of Legendaries?
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