Super Smash Brothers Discussion Thread

[Therefir]

Except we are shown, even with spirits, the fate is the same. Galeem and Dharkon kill everyone in one hit.

Galeem and Darkron can tear each other apart, your argument doesn't make any sense considering the fighters and the boss they were fighting were tired and ended up being one-shotted in the bad endings.

I didn’t animate the cutscenes. The fighters are miles away in both. If the creators of the game are saying you fought them.

Except we have gameplay showing us fighting against the bosses made by the developers of the game, that takes far more precedent than the delusions of a vsbattles debater, the fact is that they are meant to be fighting them, going against that is just headcanon in your part.

We have two characters who are equal to each other trying to kill each other; we have everyone consistently get one shot by them.

How many times I have to explain you, not only they can one-shot each other once one of them are tired, the fighters they one-shotted were much weaker at the start of the game, heck the fighters were shown to be able to weaken one of the bosses by themselves, an it's explicitly shown that Galeem and Darkron have exactly the same amount of power and without the player's intervention they would never be able to kill each other.

Plus, there is a good reason as to why the smashers could have been far away, not fighting Dharkon or Galeem. Throughout the end of the game you are fighting and stealing their spirits to warp the tides of their power. The smashers are still within the area the spirits are at within the cutscenes, meaning they are still messing with the spirits while Dharkon and Galeem fight.

Except we have a gameplay cutscene of the player challenging both Galeem and Darkron by going to the main path, your argument makes no sense as both bosses are equally powerful and they can't kill each other for good.

Also we know you can’t be as strong as them due to stealing their final spirits. Neither Dharkon’s nor Galeem’s final spirits protect you from the other at all.

I don't get this? Having their spirits makes your attacks stronger towards each other (not to mention you literally their power at their disposal... making this whole argument useless).

Finally, we know Dharkon and Galeem were weakened when you fight them. When you steal their spirits the other easily begins to overpower which ever one lost their spirits.

Except both Galeem and Darkron were already Low 2-C long before they had access to the spirits, so not a good argument, they don't need those spirits to be Low 2-C, and what, are you trying to argue that they were Mountain level at the end of the game and that's why the player can beat them?

 

[Keeweed]

Galeem and Darkron can tear each other apart, your argument doesn't make any sense considering the fighters and the boss they were fighting were tired ended up being one-shotted in the bad endings.

Except we literally have gameplay showing us fighting against the bosses, the fact is that they are meant to be fighting them, going against that is just headcanon in your part.

How many times I have to explain you, not only they can one-shot once one of them are tired, the fighters they one-shotted were much weaker at the start of the game, heck the fighters were shown to be able to weaken one of the bosses by themselves, when it's explicitly shown that Galeem and Darkron have exactly the same amount of power and without the player's intervention they would never be able to kill each other.

Except we have a gameplay cutscene of the player challenging both Galeem and Darkron by going to the main path, your argument makes no sense as both bosses are equally powerful and they can't kill each other for good.

I don't get this? Having their spirits makes your attacks stronger towards each other (not to mention you literally their power at their disposal... making this whole argument useless).

For your first point I think you misunderstand who I’m saying gets one shot. I was referring to the smashers.

You keep saying everyone was tired, but nobody is shown tired. Even if they fought they don’t show the characters being tired at all. None of the smashers are injuried, sweaty, or even leaning over. They are all standing up straight without any indication of a fight even having taken place. Plus, again, apparently being slightly tired makes them go from being on par with Galeem to him being able to kill literally everyone in all of totality with a single hit. That’s not how durability even works, I can’t obliterate a boxer into dust because he ran a marathon. We only use stamina if the verse has an in verse justification for lower durability (like Ki), smash doesn’t have that (I know they have stamina battles, but the fighters pass out at the end, the other smasher does obliterate the loser).

“when it's explicitly shown that Galeem and Darkron have exactly the same amount of power and without the player's intervention they would never be able to kill each other.”

Because you stole their spirits. In the endings, even you said this, they can tear each other apart after being weakened. That assumes though they truly couldn’t kill each other at their best, despite being to hurt each other when they are equally weakened.

For your last point. I was saying that if the spirits are what makes you strong enough to fight them, they are shown to do the exact opposite. When you steal all of Dharkon’s spirits and apparently gain his power, Galeem dogs on everyone. Same for when you apparently steal Galeem’s power (apparently is in reference to gaining his power, you do weaken his power). If the spirits are what allow you to win then why can Dharkon and Galeem absolutely raw dog everyone in the entire verse after they stole the their spirits?

That still doesn’t cover the fact you need to weaken them both to even fight them to begin with. Their powers are very clearly shown to get weaker before the fight even begins. So the smashers can’t even scale to Galeem’s feat anyways because his power is greatly diminished. Thus leaving how strong the smashers are completely unquantifiable.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Galeem and Darkron can tear each other apart, your argument doesn't make any sense considering the fighters and the boss they were fighting were tired and ended up being one-shotted in the bad endings.

Except we have gameplay showing us fighting against the bosses made by the developers of the game, that takes far more precedent than the delusions of a vsbattles debater, the fact is that they are meant to be fighting them, going against that is just headcanon in your part.

How many times I have to explain you, not only they can one-shot each other once one of them are tired, the fighters they one-shotted were much weaker at the start of the game, heck the fighters were shown to be able to weaken one of the bosses by themselves, an it's explicitly shown that Galeem and Darkron have exactly the same amount of power and without the player's intervention they would never be able to kill each other.

Except we have a gameplay cutscene of the player challenging both Galeem and Darkron by going to the main path, your argument makes no sense as both bosses are equally powerful and they can't kill each other for good.

I don't get this? Having their spirits makes your attacks stronger towards each other (not to mention you literally their power at their disposal... making this whole argument useless).


Except both Galeem and Darkron were already Low 2-C long before they had access to the spirits, so not a good argument, they don't need those spirits to be Low 2-C, and what, are you trying to argue that they were Mountain level at the end of the game and that's why the player can beat them?

Question

I have used some locations from smash bros and I’m worried about something right now

do we assume the opponents will be affected by the off-screen KO thing.

I’m just using locations from smash bros but I’m curious if the rules of smash bros apply to the opponents (aka if they get knocked off the location they’ll be affected by KO)

KO is gameplay mechanics correct, I should not be worried about it if i’m using a location from smash bros?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Talked about this

Pacheco vs Ben 10,000 (I know this thread does not have smash characters but I used four side as a location for the match, but since I did not say smash bros ultimate in the OP, should I edit that in the wiki)

Also are the characters still subjected to the KO thing or is it again game mechanics?

 

[CrackerVolley]

Does it even matter? Stamina mode allows for them to get into conventional combat regardless.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Does it even matter? Stamina mode allows for them to get into conventional combat regardless.

I’m just using a location for opponents to fight in that’s all. It’s just the location is from a smash bros map and i’m just concerned if smash bros physics/mechanics apply to them or not

 

[CrackerVolley]

No it shouldnt be a big deal. Maybe specify that knocking them doesn't matter. Also, Fourside is a location from a game outside of Smash Bros that then became a stage. People will likely interpret it as just being the entire city.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

No it shouldnt be a big deal. Maybe specify that knocking them doesn't matter. Also, Fourside is a location from a game outside of Smash Bros that then became a stage. People will likely interpret it as just being the entire city.

I should have specified more specifically since the link takes you to the smash bros version.
But honestly no one will care.

(I don’t have to specify though. Since KO is game mechanics)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Just to be clear

if you use a smash bros location the only thing smash bros related is the location

the opponents will not be subjected to smash bros mechanics/physics/rules or anything?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I just need a staff member to help me answer this. Just to be absolutely sure

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Just to be clear

if you use a smash bros location the only thing smash bros related is the location

the opponents will not be subjected to smash bros mechanics/physics/rules or anything?

no? what? why would it??

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

no? what? why would it??

I worry too much sometimes

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

What about that fourside thing I mentioned (In one of the matches I said the battle takes place in fourside from earthbound but the link I gave is from the smash bros article on it. Should i have said in the OP that it’s smash bros version because of that link or we can just assume it’s the regular earthbound version)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

,

,

You two are staff members so I’m curious to see if you guys could answer the questions I had above.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Pretty sure that’s game mechanics exclusive to Smash, ao it wouldn’t apply when making a fight featuring that location.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Pretty sure that’s game mechanics exclusive to Smash, ao it wouldn’t apply when making a fight featuring that location.

though what about the fourside thing, I used a link from smash bros for the location.

but I did not mention smash bros version of fourside from earthbound in the OP.

so does that mean even though the link shows the smash bros version of fourside.
We can just assume it’s the regular version from earthbound?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Here this is what I mean, just take a look at the location part of the OP

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

What’s your thoughts on it?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Here this is what I mean, just take a look at the location part of the OP

,

Just not sure whether it should be earthbound version of fourside or smash bros version since I never said smash bros version in the OP but I gave a link to the smash bros version in the OP

 

[koopa3144]

I've been inspired by the recent Pichu profile, and I've started work on a profile for Smash Mario.

 

[Psychomaster35]

So this thread is up now

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I'm working on profiles for Pokémon Trainer and Rayquaza.

I also intend to work on Mewtwo, Ness, Lucas, and Steve. If someone beats me to it that's fine though.

I'm very interested in the idea of Spirit profiles. Leon, Wesker, Chris, and Jill Smash Profiles sounds fun. They have powers and feats (scaling to Bomberman), so they shouldn't be too controversial.

I've also been thinking of new calcs.

• Sephiroth's final smash (scales to Final Smashes, replaces the "higher")
• Bomberman blowing up the boulder (Scales to most spirits)
• Lapras' KE(?) (Scales to weaker spirits)

 

[Psychomaster35]

Steve

As we've discussed earlier, making profiles for Smash Ultimate DLC characters would mean they can't get spirits/the Skill Tree since they were never a part of World of Light in canon.

Sephiroth's final smash (scales to Final Smashes, replaces the "higher")

Calculated it as Solar System, although square law for tanking this gets this down to around Small Country. Sadly, this only scales to Sephiroth as he isn't canon to World of Light due to being a DLC character.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Smash Ultimate DLC characters would mean they can't get spirits/the Skill Tree since they were never a part of World of Light in canon.

They join the party at some point, don't they? I know that the trailers are considered secondary canon at best, but Hero's trailer shows the four of them showing up in the events of WoL. Sephiroth's trailer completely breaks canon and shouldn't be used, but Hero's doesn't contradict anything from what I can tell.

Sadly, this only scales to Sephiroth as he isn't canon to World of Light due to being a DLC character.

This also doesn't make much sense. His FS should be comparable to everyone else's, even if his appearance in WoL isn't canon

 

[Psychomaster35]

This also doesn't make much sense. His FS should be comparable to everyone else's, even if his appearance in WoL isn't canon

If you want an example, Zod in Injustice had a super move that got to Large Planet, but because he is a DLC character not part of the main story, it really only scales to him and not everyone else.

They join the party at some point, don't they? I know that the trailers are considered secondary canon at best, but Hero's trailer shows the four of them showing up in the events of WoL. Sephiroth's trailer completely breaks canon and shouldn't be used, but Hero's doesn't contradict anything from what I can tell.

It might work for Hero, but Steve's trailer never made any references to World of Light

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The idea of DLC being unscalable due to the lack of canon (as if Smash has a strict canon to begin with) is ridiculous and antithetical to pretty much everything we do here on the site. The injustice example included.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Howdy.

Since we're adding extra tabbers for P&A for smash bros profiles, does anyone think they could update Kirby's profile as well? He lack's tabbers for the ability he gains from stickers, items, and the like, unlike uh...Mario.

Also for Copy abilities: He should probably also have:

Dimensional Storage (Via Villager's Pocket)

Creation: (Via the many abilities that allow Kirby to produce items from seemingly nowhere, such as Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit)

Homing Attack: (Via Palutena's Autoreticle)

Body Control: (Certain Copy Abilities, such as Min-Min's Punch, Bowser Jr's Clown Cannon, and Kazuya's Devil Blaster, allow Kirby to grow additional body parts or modify existing ones)

Summoning: (Can summon a Luma via Luma Shot, can summon Pikmin Via Pikimin Throw)

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I went looking through some trophy descriptions and I've found three Tier 6 feats. Lugia, Groudon, and Reshiram all have their pokedex feats copy and pasted into their trophies.

All three of these Pokémon can damage the fighters, who can then damage each other. All three of these feats have also been calced already.

 

[koopa3144]

Would we be able to use the Sephiroth Challenge as proof he scales to the other fighters?

 

[Psychomaster35]

So, 682 petatons wis what they’ll scale to?

Would we be able to use the Sephiroth Challenge as proof he scales to the other fighters?

Yes

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Groudon's feat: 216.31 petatons; Multi-Continent level (High 6-A)

Reshiram's feat: 275.93 petatons; Multi-Continent level (High 6-A)

 

[koopa3144]

I think any trophy scaling should have a "likely" rating and the main tier should be something directly from Smash Bros.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

The trophy descriptions are pretty canon, Ness' explains how he got his extra PSI, and the Subspace ones reveal more lore

 

[koopa3144]

Is anyone planing on making a CRT for the Pokemon feats and Sephiroth's Low 6-B final smash?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I can later

 

[Psychomaster35]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, but Rosalina's Final Smash in Ultimate can warp the background into a starry sky which then disappears the moment her Final Smash is over. Would this be viable for scaling?

 

[koopa3144]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, but Rosalina's Final Smash in Ultimate can warp the background into a starry sky which then disappears the moment her Final Smash is over. Would this be viable for scaling?

Dang I never noticed that. I can see her getting 4-A with Reality warping but I'm not sure if it would scale to anyone else.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, but Rosalina's Final Smash in Ultimate can warp the background into a starry sky which then disappears the moment her Final Smash is over. Would this be viable for scaling?

Dunno if it's viable, we have pretty strict standards for unexplained background changes which is why stuff like this isn't accepted as a feat.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Peppino is Tier 7 for screaming while a storm shows up in the background, so would this not be a similar case?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Peppino is Tier 7 for screaming while a storm shows up in the background, so would this not be a similar case?

Peppino also dispersed said storm with a piledriver, and despite doing so, it's just listed as Environmental Destruction