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Yep. But seemingly mostly just as the Kingdom Key's Chain, & thus, more a part of Sora than a symbol of Disney, I'd say.
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Super Smash Brothers Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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- Tags
- super smash bros.
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Time to torment Cloud and Sephiroth, boys and girls!
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Okay now, I got a feeling that the Smash Bros LS can be a lot higher
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By the way, what is the weight of the Smash Bros sandbag????
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Wasn’t this because of him being a DLC and thus not being canon to the main story? I’ve heard that Injustice scaling to a 5-A feat got rejected because it came from a DLC character who was not part of the main storyline.
Sad too, I actually hoped to see the potential of 4-B Smash. It’s doubtable due to Sakurai’s departure, but if Smash 6 came by the consent of him, Sephiroth needs to be in it in order for the upgrade to occur.
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Smash may become Tier 4, but it won't be due to Sephiroth.
Also, Sakurai is not leaving
Sans2345
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A question about Master Hand's and Crazy Hand's current tiring
- It was stated in one of Palutena's guidance for Young Link that the Smash Bros universe has infinite parallel timelines, so would that change the tiers for characters like Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Dharkon, Galeem, and Tabuu?
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The fact that I was gone for over a year, and still didn’t miss the newest comment to this thread is crazy.
Though, two things. Master hand was never stated to make those timelines, with them specifically mentioning that actions cause them (like real life multiverse theory), second: that’s in reference to kid icarus not smash bros. He’s referring to events that only happened in his game.
Edit: People where wondering why they don’t scale to Sephiroth. He’s dlc, and thus not canon, but smash bros refers to the American illusionary supernova rather than the actual supernova from the Japanese version of final fantasy. The supernova in smash causes mental effects like stun and sleep, and I’m pretty sure it was stated to be an illusion (but it’s been a year since I’ve checked).
Though, two things. Master hand was never stated to make those timelines, with them specifically mentioning that actions cause them (like real life multiverse theory), second: that’s in reference to kid icarus not smash bros. He’s referring to events that only happened in his game.
Edit: People where wondering why they don’t scale to Sephiroth. He’s dlc, and thus not canon, but smash bros refers to the American illusionary supernova rather than the actual supernova from the Japanese version of final fantasy. The supernova in smash causes mental effects like stun and sleep, and I’m pretty sure it was stated to be an illusion (but it’s been a year since I’ve checked).
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Galeem literally killed everyone in all of existence, spirits and smashers combined, at the beginning of the game in one hit (he can also do it again at the end). Plus during the final battle Dharkon and Galeem are constantly trying to kill each other and the cutscenes constantly have the smashers be miles away from both of them before and after. It would be an outlier if they did win (galeem one shot the entire verse), but they don’t even need to fight anyways because the two final bosses are specifically trying to kill each other and likely killed themselves.
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You still have to drain their health bars, though, showing that even they must harm them in order to defeat them. Also, Galeem killing them in the end isn't the ideal canon as with Dharkon killing them in the end. Both were defeated by the fighters after they grew strong enough to finally contend with them.
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Except we can literally see the fighters lowering their HP without the other's intervention.
And in the bad ends the fighters (entirely by themselves) weakened one of them enough for the other boss to finish them off, with the fighters most likely being tired as well after the fight and subsequently being defeated too.
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Where is it stated they grew strong enough to fight them, rather than going off what is shown with Galeem and Dharkon constantly trying to kill each other.
Three things: ‘They grew stronger’ how? Galeem’s feat is straight up him one shoting the verse in its totality. How would the spirits make the smasher stronger than Galeem when his feat is killing all the spirits and smashers in a single hit.
Second: Galeem can still instantly everyone combined at the end of the game.
Third: Galeem and Dharkon are shown at the game to be fighting each other over control for the spirits. If you take out all the dark spirits, Galeem can stomp Dharkon and kill everyone, if you take out the light spirits, same thing in reverse.
Galeem and Dharkon are specifically weakened when you fight them, they are trying to kill each other, the cutscene have all the characters be miles away from both of them, and they can still kill literally everyone in the entire verse combined in one hit anyways.
Three things: ‘They grew stronger’ how? Galeem’s feat is straight up him one shoting the verse in its totality. How would the spirits make the smasher stronger than Galeem when his feat is killing all the spirits and smashers in a single hit.
Second: Galeem can still instantly everyone combined at the end of the game.
Third: Galeem and Dharkon are shown at the game to be fighting each other over control for the spirits. If you take out all the dark spirits, Galeem can stomp Dharkon and kill everyone, if you take out the light spirits, same thing in reverse.
Galeem and Dharkon are specifically weakened when you fight them, they are trying to kill each other, the cutscene have all the characters be miles away from both of them, and they can still kill literally everyone in the entire verse combined in one hit anyways.
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We get stronger throughout the World of Light thanks to upgrades and getting more and more stronger spirits...?
It's literally the point of the game, to free the spirits so they can lend us their strength, as the fighters cannot defeat Galeem on their own.
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I like maining peach guys but what are your mains?
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In the bad endings the smashers are miles away from everyone.
There is no reason to assume the gameplay is canon as the cutscene consistently have the smashers be miles away. They weakened one of the bosses by stealing the spirits, the other boss kills them.
The reason I’m saying they both killed each other comes from the cutscenes. In all the cutscenes Dharkon and Galeem and fighting each other and trying to kill each other.
Plus, I still don’t see why it won’t be a massive outlier. Galeem killed literally everyone, in the entire verse, in a single hit!
Yet a fraction of those spirits and characters combined can win?
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Yes, it's not as implausible as you make it sound, those spirits were also by themselves when they got killed, so the fighters are definitely much stronger than they were at the beginning, justifying the scaling without breaking the canon of the cutscenes.
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The spirits get stronger by absorbing other spirits. Galeem literally killed every single spirit, throughout all of totality, in a single hit. There is no logical way they should be able to become stronger than Galeem from the spirits, they are spirits specifically because he kill everyone.
Galeem and Dharkon became vastly weaker before you fight them because you stole their spirits.
Assuming you even fought them. In verse the smashers could have down absolutely nothing. A life bar is a gameplay mechanics, we are shown Dharkon and Galeem are still hilariously above everyone, and they are trying to kill each other. It’s way more likely the smashers just got them mad and got them to kill themselves.
When they will have their strength, they kill everyone deader than dead with zero difficulty.
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The spirits being by themselves doesn’t matter at all. Galeem didn’t go around killing everyone individually. He literally nuked the verse, killing all life within it, with a single hit. Yet that life combined is supposed to scale to him? Especially when someone equal to him is constantly trying to kill him throughout the fight (Assuming the smashers even fought).
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I'm not sure if I can agree with this example, think about this, an omnidirectional explosion is capable of killing 20 humans around it, but a human with a durability 20 times greater than one human would be able to survive it.
Killing the spirits by themselves would be much easier than killing a being with the combined strength of multiple of them.
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That’s not what this comparable to though. This is like swinging an axe through trees. If you can chop down every single tree in a forest with a single cleave, it doesn’t matter if the trees were actually one big tree, your one attack cut through the mass of all of them.
Reminder: Galeem and Dharkon are repeatedly shown to be comparable to each other and they both consistently want to murder each other. The smashers don’t need to be comparable to them to win, they are already killing themselves before the fight even begins.
Plus the spirit analogy falls apart harder, because Galeem can one shot you at the end of the game still. Even assuming they are tired (despite being miles away from the fight, so when did they get tired), apparently they went from being comparable to Galeem, to he can literally kill everyone in all of existence in one hit, because they were slightly tired.
Why are we so desperately trying to scale the smashers to someone who literally killed everyone else in the verse in a single hit. Especially since there is literally a person who is equal to him, trying to kill him, throughout the entire game.
It’s vastly more likely the people constantly shown to be on par with each other, who hate each other, just killed each other. Rather than the people that consistently get stomped by these two somehow managing to win (despite being miles away from both of them in the pre and post fight cutscenes).
Reminder: Galeem and Dharkon are repeatedly shown to be comparable to each other and they both consistently want to murder each other. The smashers don’t need to be comparable to them to win, they are already killing themselves before the fight even begins.
Plus the spirit analogy falls apart harder, because Galeem can one shot you at the end of the game still. Even assuming they are tired (despite being miles away from the fight, so when did they get tired), apparently they went from being comparable to Galeem, to he can literally kill everyone in all of existence in one hit, because they were slightly tired.
Why are we so desperately trying to scale the smashers to someone who literally killed everyone else in the verse in a single hit. Especially since there is literally a person who is equal to him, trying to kill him, throughout the entire game.
It’s vastly more likely the people constantly shown to be on par with each other, who hate each other, just killed each other. Rather than the people that consistently get stomped by these two somehow managing to win (despite being miles away from both of them in the pre and post fight cutscenes).
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What does that have to do with anything I have said? A tree 20 times more durable would be impossible to cut by even the strongest axe, a tree 20 bigger is just a tree made of the same material with the same durability, but just bigger, my example wasn't about that.
Galeem obliterated Darkron at the end of the bad ending, and the same can be said in the other way, this isn't a point in favor of them not scaling.
Those "everyone" are just weaker than the ones who fought Galeem and Darkron later on, it's as simple as that.
We have a plausible reason for why the fighter were one-shotted at the beginning yet at the end they could fight the bosses, so I don't know what's the drama here.
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Ignoring the importance of the fighters and spirits in the battle that will decide the fate of the world seems to me far more laughable than simply saying that they became strong enough to give them an actual fight.
It takes all the meaning out of the struggle and reduces the significance of the protagonists, turning the whole adventure into a meaningless journey where their decisions didn't matter from the beginning.
The fighters are definitely not 7-Ainsects bacteria merely watching two Low 2-C creatures fight for the fate of the world, and I will never be convinced otherwise.
It takes all the meaning out of the struggle and reduces the significance of the protagonists, turning the whole adventure into a meaningless journey where their decisions didn't matter from the beginning.
The fighters are definitely not 7-A
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It wasn’t a meaningless journey. You weakened Dharkon and Galeem and got them riled up enough to get them to kill each other.
The goal of the journey is to defeat Galeem and Dharkon. No where in the game does it say you need to win yourself.
They aren’t shown in story to fight the bosses. They are miles away pre and post fight within the cutscenes. And even assuming they did fight, they didn’t need to do any damage. Galeem and Dharkon are comparable to each other and trying to kill each other.
When Galeem is still at his full strength everyone dies, when Dharkon is at his full strength everyone dies, when they are weakened they are still fighting and trying to kill each other.
The smashers being the ones to win, is both still accurate and that’s not even the theme or point of the game. No where does it say or show you winning. Yet it’s perfectly fine with showing you getting obliterated.
The goal of the journey is to defeat Galeem and Dharkon. No where in the game does it say you need to win yourself.
They aren’t shown in story to fight the bosses. They are miles away pre and post fight within the cutscenes. And even assuming they did fight, they didn’t need to do any damage. Galeem and Dharkon are comparable to each other and trying to kill each other.
When Galeem is still at his full strength everyone dies, when Dharkon is at his full strength everyone dies, when they are weakened they are still fighting and trying to kill each other.
The smashers being the ones to win, is both still accurate and that’s not even the theme or point of the game. No where does it say or show you winning. Yet it’s perfectly fine with showing you getting obliterated.
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There you have it, a Low 2-C feat.
Which is exactly why you get the aid of the spirits and not just fight for yourself, because it would result in the same fate as the beginning of the game.
Yeah right, the fighters were just watching the final fight helplessly hundreds of miles away, and somehow inexplicably Galeem and Darkron just ended up killing each other at the same time, what God's luck they had.
No, you are practically saying they didn't participate in the fight at all and the in-game battles are non-canon because they are miles away from the battle as it was some kind of movie theater (???) and for reasons that only make sense in your head they ended up "winning" the fight even though according to you they didn't even touch Galeem or Darkron at any point in the game.
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Honestly I'd be all down for both Smash profiles (since the spirits give them their own hax along with Smash having it's own rules) and the scaling. I'd find it much harder to believe the characters never got any bit stronger throughout the game to be able to take on Galeem and Dharkon and just sit there as everything happens.
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Game & Watch and Steve, thank you very much
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Steve is difficult to use but interesting to play so nice choice
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I mean, Steve is pretty fun to use through combos utilizing the blocks as well as setting up TNT traps with the minecart. Too bad they nerfed Steve's dick as much as Snake's ass.
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Steve is pretty strong too, and really, really annoying to fight...
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Except we are shown, even with spirits, the fate is the same. Galeem and Dharkon kill everyone in one hit.
I didn’t animate the cutscenes. The fighters are miles away in both. If the creators of the game are saying you fought them, they show the exact opposite within every canon event. I’m saying they are miles away because that’s what is shown to us in every cutscene. Is it dumb, probably, but why would I argue they aren’t actually far away, when they are shown to be.
It’s not lucky Dharkon and Galeem killed each other. Two people of equal power, after having their powers messed with and being enraged, accidentally getting both themselves killed isn’t lucky at all.
We have two characters who are equal to each other trying to kill each other; we have everyone consistently get one shot by them both beginning and end game. Why would I assume the smashers are the ones to kill them rather them killing themsleves when they are equal to each other and trying to kill each other.
You keep saying the smashers being miles away is dumb, but that’s what is shown. I can’t control what the cutscene showed us.
Plus, there is a good reason as to why the smashers could have been far away, not fighting Dharkon or Galeem. Throughout the end of the game you are fighting and stealing their spirits to warp the tides of their power. The smashers are still within the area the spirits are at within the cutscenes, meaning they are still messing with the spirits while Dharkon and Galeem fight.
Finally, we know Dharkon and Galeem were weakened when you fight them. When you steal their spirits the other easily begins to overpower which ever one lost their spirits. Meaning the smashers won’t even have a reason to scale to either to begin with. They fight them when their strength is unquantifiable. When the bosses have their strength, everyone dies.
Edit: (Clarifying) if you even fought them to begin with. That wasn’t shown, and contradicts were the characters are shown to be.
Also we know you can’t be as strong as them due to stealing their final spirits. Neither Dharkon’s nor Galeem’s final spirits protect you from the other at all.
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