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I believe they were meaning 173*countless universes, not 173 universes.
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Super Smash Brothers Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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- super smash bros.
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The blog doesn't show that
XitSign
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I'm confused, checking the CRT and the blog attached, it seems to be justified that we're arguing for a countless 'many worlds' for every universe in the CRT's blog posted above?
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Oh wait I missed it, so it's basically 173 universes that each contain an infinitely-expanding number of timelines
Ngl I feel like the rating should be "2-B, possibly 2-A" because of the English version
Ngl I feel like the rating should be "2-B, possibly 2-A" because of the English version
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Tbh I've got an argument to make Master Hand back to at least a "likely Low 2-C".Le profile revision
I'll prob do Master and Crazy Hand soonish.
"Now behold, liar of gold. Your dark god is rising!" (Dharkon profile revision)
So I've been waiting for the 2-B crt to conclude so I could post this. I've had Dharkon's profile revision done for a while. Old Profile New Profile Like with Galeem, I mostly cleaned up stuff and added a Spirits tabber like Galeem's. I still don't know what else to add so here's a small...vsbattles.com
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Done the Immeasurable speed thingy.
vsbattles.com
Smash Bros: Immeasurable speed revision
A continuation of this as that CRT is accepted about AP, but for speed is dead as ****. Anyway, let's keep this simple: As accepted in the linked CRT and current Galeem's profile, his light has expanded across all the cosmology to devour it and all the characters inhabitating it. The evidence...
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Now that 2-B is dead as **** (sorry for giving false hopes to both of you all and myself), I think I'd need to talk about Master Hand:
TLDR I think that Master Hand being at least Low 2-C off it creating universes and universe-creating entities is solid, but anything higher is just weird and meets a fuckload of vague and seemingly contradicting shit.
- We see him making up not just the stage but the entire Mario world in the background in the Smash 64 intro. We know that every different franchise is at least its own different universe, and that stuff seems to be linked to AP, so that's at least a Low 2-C feat for you.
- We know that Smash Bros fighters are technically just toys as confirmed by Iwata, with also in-game statements and Sakurai himself hinting to such too. THE VERY FIRST THING WE SEE IN MELEE'S OPENING is a kid's hand holding a Mario trophy and throwing it in the imaginary world, too, and them being straight up unable to "exist" in the real world. While I am indeed very tempted to say "hey Master Hand is 2-B coz he imaginated the whole SSB multiverse in existence!", well, no we have multiple Master Hands existing, so that makes it pretty moot. I'd say however that 2-C can still be argued due to Master Hand still imaginating at least the amount of universes from the fighters (those being 37), though it's a bit of a reach if you read the next parts.
- The whole statement about Master Hand holding back is weird as **** too because later wee see the fighters being able to take down Tabuu (after weakening him through destroying a weak point of his off-guard tho) who one-shotted Master Hand with no effort, and then in Ultimate we have Marth saying "each of us can take down 10 Master Hands" which is huh... idk.
- In Brawl also we do not see Master Hand nor the other bosses (ex. Rayquaza, Ridley, Porky, etc.) becoming statues at defeat, though Ridley being a playable in Ultimate might still confirm these being still ultimately just part of MH's imagination. If that's the case, then it'd include also Dialga and Arceus, who are Low 2-C as already said in Galeem's profile already, which would make Master Hand have another Low 2-C feat in this case (especially given that Dialga and Palkia are merely hazards in a stage).
- The whole "imagination-toy" thing might give to Master Hand a 1-A key given that the whole of Smash Bros is still a mere imagination of a kid playing with toys, with Master Hand them being just their self-insert. This however would pretty much **** up 2-C and make the avatar of Master Hand just Low 2-C off creating a singular universe in N64, I think, or maybe still 2-C coz maybe as an avatar it still made all these universes? Idk seems too meta for my taste.
TLDR I think that Master Hand being at least Low 2-C off it creating universes and universe-creating entities is solid, but anything higher is just weird and meets a fuckload of vague and seemingly contradicting shit.
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After thinking about it for a long time, I came to the following conclusions:
- I think that Master Hand should indeed have 2 keys:
- A "World of Imagination" key which is Low 2-C given its on-screen feats. It includes also Master Core. I'd make it "Low 2-C, far higher as Master Core, even higher at full power" considering that the statement of it holding back its real power is backed from it easily defeating an army of Fighter Clones in Ultimate.
- A "Real World" key which is 1-A due to the white glove being just a self-insert of the kid that imagines the Smash Multiverse and everything in it as merely just imagination. In powerscaling terms, Master Hand would be an avatar, and the kid would be the True Form.
- Tabuu, Galeem and Dharkon should scale to the full power of Master Hand, as the former easily one shotted MH, and the latter two kinda treat it as just a fodder.
- To explain why the Smashers defeated Tabuu, an explanation can be that Tabuu was weakened after that Sonic broke the wings, which are pretty much implied to be his main source of power.
- Because of that I'd be inclined to make an indicator on Tabuu's profile about the wings being intact allowing him to reach his peak power.
- Galeem and Dharkon instead already are answered by "Spirit boost" so won't expand on it. However it should be noted that Galeem absorbed the power of hundreds of Master Hands, so I think a multiplier above baseline Low 2-C comes in.
- To explain why the Smashers defeated Tabuu, an explanation can be that Tabuu was weakened after that Sonic broke the wings, which are pretty much implied to be his main source of power.
- While I think Smashers should be Low 2-C in base, I don't think they should scale to the full power of Master Hand, as it has a statement if holding back and it did defeat an army of clones. Meaning I don't think that Marth's statement about taking down 10 Master Hands should be used, he had 0 idea of their full power after all. I do still think that them scaling to Low 2-C is fine due to the "everyone can fight everyone" theme the game has, with the Universe creation not taking particular effort from MH and the God Pokemon still being stage hazards. Plus iirc if you touch a Pokemon/Assist Character you get damaged so that can be a reason to scale to them too.
- I don't think that Palutena's statement about Mewtwo being the strongest Pokemon should be used given she never mentions the God Pokemon, and that could be just word of mouth from Mewtwo's general hype in Pokemon.
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Lou_change
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Would crazy hand also get a second key?
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I think both should go in the same profile tbh, given that they're opposite hands of the same entity.
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Actually I ******* forgot that Sakurai also said that the Toys can "return" to the real world, which implies that the realities are still comparable, which is a no-no for 1-A which demands a complete separation and superiority.
So sorry lads, won't get funi 1-A hands.
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The ending was oddly heartwarming.
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Did anyone get to read this by any chance? It's actually a fun read, but it does have some content with one of the ratings we have for the characters.
StarShooter80
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May or may not be trying something
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Shouldn't you include the skill tree abilities, given that all the fighters have access to them?
StarShooter80
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I do plan to add a section for it but I want to rework the current tabber section for it
StarShooter80
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I finished off the skill tree section, I'll continue the baseline physiology tomorrow. Please lwk if there's any abilities or justifications you think should be added/removed/redone
Kellex
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I agree with most of it, tho let me give some input:
It's the trophy's base that needs to be touched to revive the fighters, as touching any of the other parts won't do.
However... some characters like Mario and Kirby are a bit of a weird case being able to "revive" themselves without help, and Mario does this again in the Sora trailer where everybody was frozen except him.
Fighters are shown to be tired in the character trailers like Sephiroth, Kazuya Mishima, Mega Man, Lucina + Robin (Chrom wasn't a playable character until SSBU but I think it still applies) and etc.
I'd add Weapon Mastery to the list given they're able to wield smash items without much issues.
StarShooter80
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Yeah that's a better
I feel like these are just exceptions from the norm, like outside of these Mario and other fighters consistently cannot self-revive anymore
Not saying it's impossible for them to be tired but just that they can still endure attacks up to that percentage level and still fight
Sure I'll add that too
Lou_change
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I believe invulnerability is inaccurate for at least air dodges besides air dodging being one of several ways to achieve such a state it is generally referred to and treated as intangibility. I would also suggest adding footstooling, and fall break to acrobatics justification.
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Yeah, that is definitely NOT Invulnerability.
Kellex
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True and fair enough
I don't think that's really correct either. It's like saying this character has Supernatural Willpower cause they're still able to fight with 1hp.
StarShooter80
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Fair enough I'll remove it
Lou_change
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Are stocks or time battles implied canon at any point?
StarShooter80
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I don't think, there's nothing outside them just being game mechanics
Lou_change
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Jigglypuff is implied to have cute charm as its ability from it brawl trophy: A Balloon Pokémon. It invites opponents in close with its big, round eyes, then puts them to sleep with a calming song. The secret to the song's unfailing efficacy is Jigglypuff's ability to sing on the wavelength that will make its opponent the sleepiest. It also uses Attract to infatuate opponents who touch it. It uses a Moon Stone to evolve into Wigglytuff.
It say attract but the contact thing suggests cute charm
It say attract but the contact thing suggests cute charm
StarShooter80
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Added and the page should be done by now, I'll let a few hours past before anyone else gives input
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I think that's indeed attract, just that it lacks the gender limitation of the Pokemon games so that we don't have something like Sanji in Jump Force whose attacks become far weaker against any of the female characters (aka 1/3rd of the playables).
StarShooter80
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Bada bing bada boom
vsbattles.com
Super Smash Bros: Trophy Fighter Physiology
Basically the title name, I made a physiology page for the Trophy Fighters of the Super Smash Bros. series (ignore the minor spelling error in the sandbox) I've even included the skill tree as well: Trophy Fighter Physiology It was checked out by other members on the verse discussion thread...
Lou_change
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I am unaware of any case of Puff using attrach in brawl.
StarShooter80
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Lou_change
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Why did R.O.B have a key removed?
StarShooter80
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What key specifically?
Lou_change
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The ancient minister one
MaskedDragon908
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Probably because he's not any different. He's literally just wearing a cloak.
Lou_change
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I think it was because @Ednaxel2 accidently deleted it when replacing the old keys formatting with Sonic's
he has a flying device better than his own flight that can carry subspace bombs and fire lazers faster.
StarShooter80
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Oh I see now yeah I'll just add it back
MaskedDragon908
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Wouldn't that just be in his equipment section? Masked thought that keys were for major changes in stats and abilities.
