Super Smash Brothers Discussion Thread

[Psychomaster35]

Um... Do y'all realize that 173 universes is 2-C, not 2-B?

I believe they were meaning 173*countless universes, not 173 universes.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I believe they were meaning 173*countless universes, not 173 universes.

The blog doesn't show that

 

[XitSign]

The blog doesn't show that

I'm confused, checking the CRT and the blog attached, it seems to be justified that we're arguing for a countless 'many worlds' for every universe in the CRT's blog posted above?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Oh wait I missed it, so it's basically 173 universes that each contain an infinitely-expanding number of timelines

Ngl I feel like the rating should be "2-B, possibly 2-A" because of the English version

 

[StrymULTRA]

Um... Do y'all realize that 173 universes is 2-C, not 2-B?

...173 x infinitely expanding timelines.

Edit: didn't read the rest, MB.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Le profile revision

"Now behold, liar of gold Your dark god is rising!" (Dharkon profile revision)

So I've been waiting for the 2-B crt to conclude so I could post this. I've had Dharkon's profile revision done for a while. Old Profile New Profile Like with Galeem, I mostly cleaned up stuff and added a Spirits tabber like Galeem's. I still don't know what else to add so here's a small...

vsbattles.com

I'll prob do Master and Crazy Hand soonish.

Tbh I've got an argument to make Master Hand back to at least a "likely Low 2-C".

 

[StrymULTRA]

Done the Immeasurable speed thingy.

Smash Bros: Immeasurable speed revision

A continuation of this as that CRT is accepted about AP, but for speed is dead as ****. Anyway, let's keep this simple: As accepted in the linked CRT and current Galeem's profile, his light has expanded across all the cosmology to devour it and all the characters inhabitating it. The evidence...

vsbattles.com

 

[StrymULTRA]

Now that 2-B is dead as **** (sorry for giving false hopes to both of you all and myself), I think I'd need to talk about Master Hand:

• We see him making up not just the stage but the entire Mario world in the background in the Smash 64 intro. We know that every different franchise is at least its own different universe, and that stuff seems to be linked to AP, so that's at least a Low 2-C feat for you.
• We know that Smash Bros fighters are technically just toys as confirmed by Iwata, with also in-game statements and Sakurai himself hinting to such too. THE VERY FIRST THING WE SEE IN MELEE'S OPENING is a kid's hand holding a Mario trophy and throwing it in the imaginary world, too, and them being straight up unable to "exist" in the real world. While I am indeed very tempted to say "hey Master Hand is 2-B coz he imaginated the whole SSB multiverse in existence!", well, no we have multiple Master Hands existing, so that makes it pretty moot. I'd say however that 2-C can still be argued due to Master Hand still imaginating at least the amount of universes from the fighters (those being 37), though it's a bit of a reach if you read the next parts.
  • The whole statement about Master Hand holding back is weird as **** too because later wee see the fighters being able to take down Tabuu (after weakening him through destroying a weak point of his off-guard tho) who one-shotted Master Hand with no effort, and then in Ultimate we have Marth saying "each of us can take down 10 Master Hands" which is huh... idk.
• In Brawl also we do not see Master Hand nor the other bosses (ex. Rayquaza, Ridley, Porky, etc.) becoming statues at defeat, though Ridley being a playable in Ultimate might still confirm these being still ultimately just part of MH's imagination. If that's the case, then it'd include also Dialga and Arceus, who are Low 2-C as already said in Galeem's profile already, which would make Master Hand have another Low 2-C feat in this case (especially given that Dialga and Palkia are merely hazards in a stage).
• The whole "imagination-toy" thing might give to Master Hand a 1-A key given that the whole of Smash Bros is still a mere imagination of a kid playing with toys, with Master Hand them being just their self-insert. This however would pretty much **** up 2-C and make the avatar of Master Hand just Low 2-C off creating a singular universe in N64, I think, or maybe still 2-C coz maybe as an avatar it still made all these universes? Idk seems too meta for my taste.

Plus we have Palutena stating that Mewtwo is debatably the strongest Pokémon despite Arceus and co. being there but that might be just a reference to how it's hyped up in Pokémon medias so idk here either.

TLDR I think that Master Hand being at least Low 2-C off it creating universes and universe-creating entities is solid, but anything higher is just weird and meets a fuckload of vague and seemingly contradicting shit.

 

[StrymULTRA]

After thinking about it for a long time, I came to the following conclusions:

• I think that Master Hand should indeed have 2 keys:
  • A "World of Imagination" key which is Low 2-C given its on-screen feats. It includes also Master Core. I'd make it "Low 2-C, far higher as Master Core, even higher at full power" considering that the statement of it holding back its real power is backed from it easily defeating an army of Fighter Clones in Ultimate.
  • A "Real World" key which is 1-A due to the white glove being just a self-insert of the kid that imagines the Smash Multiverse and everything in it as merely just imagination. In powerscaling terms, Master Hand would be an avatar, and the kid would be the True Form.
• Tabuu, Galeem and Dharkon should scale to the full power of Master Hand, as the former easily one shotted MH, and the latter two kinda treat it as just a fodder.
  • To explain why the Smashers defeated Tabuu, an explanation can be that Tabuu was weakened after that Sonic broke the wings, which are pretty much implied to be his main source of power.
    • Because of that I'd be inclined to make an indicator on Tabuu's profile about the wings being intact allowing him to reach his peak power.
  • Galeem and Dharkon instead already are answered by "Spirit boost" so won't expand on it. However it should be noted that Galeem absorbed the power of hundreds of Master Hands, so I think a multiplier above baseline Low 2-C comes in.
• While I think Smashers should be Low 2-C in base, I don't think they should scale to the full power of Master Hand, as it has a statement if holding back and it did defeat an army of clones. Meaning I don't think that Marth's statement about taking down 10 Master Hands should be used, he had 0 idea of their full power after all. I do still think that them scaling to Low 2-C is fine due to the "everyone can fight everyone" theme the game has, with the Universe creation not taking particular effort from MH and the God Pokemon still being stage hazards. Plus iirc if you touch a Pokemon/Assist Character you get damaged so that can be a reason to scale to them too.
  • I don't think that Palutena's statement about Mewtwo being the strongest Pokemon should be used given she never mentions the God Pokemon, and that could be just word of mouth from Mewtwo's general hype in Pokemon.

And... That's it? If you have any doubt and/or question just ask.

 

[Lou_change]

Would crazy hand also get a second key?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Would crazy hand also get a second key?

I think both should go in the same profile tbh, given that they're opposite hands of the same entity.

 

[StrymULTRA]

• The whole "imagination-toy" thing might give to Master Hand a 1-A key given that the whole of Smash Bros is still a mere imagination of a kid playing with toys, with Master Hand them being just their self-insert. This however would pretty much **** up 2-C and make the avatar of Master Hand just Low 2-C off creating a singular universe in N64, I think, or maybe still 2-C coz maybe as an avatar it still made all these universes? Idk seems too meta for my taste.

Actually I ******* forgot that Sakurai also said that the Toys can "return" to the real world, which implies that the realities are still comparable, which is a no-no for 1-A which demands a complete separation and superiority.

So sorry lads, won't get funi 1-A hands.