- 3,711
- 2,690
Hey all, this will be discussing the possibility of a small cosmology upgrade for Super Mario's main universe.
Many people point at the planets, stars, and galaxies in the Mario Galaxy and say, "well, they're puny!'
But this thread is gonna try to prove why the universe may be bigger than it seems.
The main point here is that I believe there's enough evidence that shows the 'Worlds" in Super Mario Galaxy 2 are indeed their own universes. And I also believe with context, the Japanese localizations support "Galaxy" being a sort of umbrella term synonymous with bigger cosmological objects, including the Universe itself.
I'll now try and go over my evidence.and why I believe some counters don't hold up.
A minor point but one I still want to address.
This is easily disproven by Worlds 4 and 5 existing, but let's add even more onto the plate, hm?
As seen here, "Galaxy" is said in Japanese but it is practically synonymous with "World" at least in the Galaxy series.
As we all know, World 5 is a galaxy cluster as evident and made abundantly clear by the background.
Also in those quotes is Lubba stating that they've entered another world/galaxy upon entering, showing that "galaxy" can even mean a supercluster. I've already provided the evidence why "World" and "Galaxy" are linked as well.
This means that the Lumas and high-ends for the Power Stars should be upgraded to include "possibly 3-B" because the term "galaxy" in Mario can be used to describe a portion of space containing thousands upon thousands of galaxies. Suppose you subscribe to the belief that Galaxy 1 only takes place in one galaxy that you head to the center of in the ending, this would fit in line with how it's possible to have visited many galaxies within a single "Galaxy".
For more proof "Galaxy" can refer to the whole thing, look no further than the Japanese name for World 5.
As shown here, World 5, a cluster of galaxies, has the heading: "World 5: Galaxy of Trials". Notice how it's singular despite the many galaxies? This seems pretty blatant.
This is an excerpt from the Japanese site for Galaxy 2. It basically says that there are multiple galaxies characteristic of one world, so, again, more proof for "World" = Many galaxies and "world" = "galaxy"
Even more proof there exist these "galaxies" capable of holding clusters is the World Map from Galaxy 1.
It's titled "Grand Galaxy Map" which shows there's a bigger "galaxy" that contains the smaller galaxies. Worth noting the English version calls this a map of the Universe, and guess what? The Green Luma that says the Trial Galaxies are at the edges of the Universe? Also exists in Japanese specifically saying "end of the universe," showing that this "Grand Galaxy Map" is actually of the universe since you can see the Trial Galaxies mapped out at the bottom left. Keep this in mind for later.
Worth noting that one of these "smaller" galaxies is Supermassive Galaxy (simply called Big Big Galaxy in Japan) where everything is HUGE, likely meaning that specific galaxy is bigger than the average
However, we can go further...
I'd like to refer to the Japanese name for World 2.
As we can clearly see, it says that World 2 is a new universe. Now, I'm aware this isn't a new finding, so let me clear up the counter claim people have made:
I don't really see the point in this argument? Lubba states that you literally cross space-time when using a Grand Star to go to a new world/"galaxy". Wouldn't the fact that the world's title "A New Space," and Lubba's assertion that this is a new world imply this new space is a different space-time anyways? Why would you be saying "new" to a space that already existed within your own space-time? It doesn't make sense. You also get to "A New Space" via crossing space-time. Given context I feel it being another universe works personally. Besides, their less powerful ccounterparts have made dimensional portals before so it's not really unlikely to presume Grand Stars also have that capability. Crossing from an old world into a new, unknown world via space-time and the space-time door being labeled as a dimensional door on the official Japanese website? This sounds a lot like universe crossing even without the context that "World" can mean universe.
We should also consider the characterization here. Lubba is an elder Luma who has met Rosalina, knows who Young Master Luma is, and had previously traveled space in his own spaceship until Bowser intervened. Why would he describe these worlds as unknown and new if he's already traveled the universe?
We also have to consider the consistency here. In Galaxy 1, the Comet Observatory showed us you don't need portals to traverse the universe utilising all the Power Stars. It should already grant a spaceship the necessary means to travel the universe by pure flight alone.
Should also note that the "Grand Galaxy Map" that can depict galaxies at the end of the universe likely meaning this "grand/large galaxy" is referring to and mapping out a universe, which is more or less confirmed by Rosalina herself, isn't the first time "grand/large galaxy" was said. In Galaxy 2, as we've seen from the posts in the reddit thread, Lubba specifically says "large galaxy" when meaning these Worlds you travel to. We've established that a Grand/Large Galaxy may very well mean the universe contextually, so wouldn't these be considered universes as well?
Admittedly, I can see why people would think this and it would make sense if not for the fact Lubba's lines about a "new world/galaxy" appear more than once. There's also the fact that World 1's title is simply "The Journey Into Space". If they wanted to make it known the universe/space was new they could've done it there. Chronologically "A New Space/Universe" coming after that kind of implies a separate thing. A transition from the known to the unknown; old to new. And, again, contextually speaking this argument doesn't hold up well as It's likely a description of the World itself or what you're doing in that World based on the titles for the other Worlds.
There's also context we should take into account. The World titles are shown on the File Select Screen, and seem to be like more of a chapter title/description of the places you're currently in or what you're doing. World 1 is "The Journey Into Space," World 3's is "The Adventure Around the Star," World 4's is "A World (Sekai) of Wonder," World 5's is "The Galaxy of Trials," and World 6's is "Go For Bowser"
Notice how they are all describing the places Mario is in or explaining an action involved with the World? It wouldn't make sense for this World 2 description to be figurative and a reference to the last game like, at all. It makes more sense contextually speaking to treat it as a description like most of the other World titles. And I've already explained why traveling to "A New Space/Universe" after crossing space and time into what's notably referred to as a new and unknown world doesn't make any sense to be interpreted as anything but "new world" backing up the "new universe" descriptor, thereby equating "world" to "universe".
As shown from the possibility of the Worlds in Galaxy 2 being universes, as well as the synonymous link between "world" and "galaxy" in Galaxy 2, one can surmise that since "World" might = "Universe" and "World" = "Galaxy," that this then means "Galaxy" = "Universe"
Even beyond the games, developer interviews and site descriptions talk of exploring the universe or the stage being the universe (search in page for "universe" to find the exact quotes), but in the Japanese version of Galaxy 1, you're supposedly only confined to reaching "The Center of the Galaxy" as your final destination that requires maximum power. Therefore, "Galaxy" equating to universe would make this make a lot more sense and explain away all the inconsistencies with the guides and both localizations, too
There's also context in the game that supports this.
Bowser wanted to establish a galactic empire from a star that would become the core of his new universe. Toads and Luigi state that Bowser is collecting the Power Stars so that he can become "King of the Universe" or state something like "...or the universe will belong to Koopa" when referring to Luigi needing to try hard to find Power Stars or else. As we can clearly see, these characters refer to the wider universe as in trouble, and the "Grand Galaxy Map" supports this due to it likely being a map of the Universe as I explained before. We see Bowser's troops in places like the Trial Galaxy, proof that his range DID stretch out that far and aims for complete universal conquest.
Now, we've established even despite "center of the galaxy" being stated, Bowser's plan and reach was already universal. We also have a flat out "save the Universe" statement.
And finally, a Green Luma after the Green Launch Star is revived says this
Given the context above, from Bowser's universal dominion to actual statements that Bowser would own the universe and that you need to save it, it seems clear to me that "galaxy" here is actually referring to the universe. And again, developers and website descriptions all talk of the universe being the setting and what you're saving, not the galaxy. And also again, the "Grand Galaxy" can very well refer to the universe due to evidence I've posted above.
This one has a pretty simple explanation. The main Mario Universe is simply a macrocosm. I mean, think about it. Look at things like the Dream Depot for instance. When was it ever stated it was detached from Mario's universe? It uses a vague "world" (which are common for Mario c'mon now) and says it's a land of dreams, but that doesn't really mean much. If anything, the official story only says this in reference to where it lay:
Now, tell me where again it's specifically stated this is another universe or
realm? If anything, evidence supports the Dream Depot being in outer space as well as the fact it literally says it exists IN the night sky, as in, the universe/space.
Why is this part important? Because the Dream Depot is where all dreams go, and as shown by the ending, all dreams are of equal size, and given we KNOW dreams can be universes, that means all those universe-sized dreams exist within a part of outer space, showing that Mario's universe being a macrocosm holding multiple universe-sized worlds isn't something unique to just Galaxy.
Even within Galaxy, the fact we can still see stars and space while the universe gets reset could also prove my point that Mario's reality can contain multiple.
So basically:
- Luma's and Power Star's 3-C ratings should have an added "possibly 3-B" due to the fact the terminology of "Galaxy" seems to be very loose and often is used to classify clusters of galaxies.
- The Cosmology of the main universe gets updated to include that of multiple universe-sized worlds due to World 2's descriptor in Japanese being "A New Universe" and supported by context with how the game treats the other World's titles, the characterization of Lubba and him confirming these worlds as new and unknown even to him, and how you need to cross "dimensional doors" opening pathways in space and time in order to reach these new worlds when before the full power of the Power Stars was more than good enough to cross a single universe without need for space-time crossing. Also, potentially including the fact the Dream Depot is just in space somewhere and a physical place Bowser and Mini Bowser simply just waltzed into somehow according to the official story which has an uncountable amount of universe-sized dreams. I've been made aware this would be High-End Low 2-C for the main universe, so let's make it so now that we've got a tier we can apply
- Dream Stone being literally made of dreans is not in the Japanese version, and Dream Team being linked to Mario Party 5 is mostly baseless and unfounded. The Dream World is a singular term used in Dream Team because the Dream World is a sort of parallel world to the Real World. The Dream Stone's spirit lay resting in it's appropriate Dream World spot it would have been in the Real World and that's a direct plot point. Even if there does exist multiple dream dimensions no one scales to it as no actual merging through physical or magical force took place. Therefore, until further evidence can be provided that the Dream World is a 2-B structure without relying on the Dream Depot and with proof characters or artifacts could scale to it, we should downgrade any Dream Stone-related feats and reasonings and figure out what tier it actually is. For now, perhaps an "Unknown (used the power of dreams in order to grant wishes, which is unquantifiable, as Bowser's dream was considered superior to your normal dream by Antasma but we were never shown how powerful that dream energy was) and Varies due to the power of other's dreams amping it in unequal amounts"
- Dreamy Luigi's listed on Antasma's profile as having manipulated constellations as a justification for his tier. This constellation clearly doesn't depict actual stars and thus should be removed as a feat and justification altogether.
And no, it being a world created by everyone's dreams or just "world" isn't enough proof it's a separate realm distanced from the universe. All context implies it lay within the universe and there would need to be proof displayed otherwise. Physical lands of dreams have existed before in other media, and there's no proof saying this one is ethereal or a separate dimension like, at all. Especially given the fact Bowser simply flew away in the end.
People can bring up Dream Team but there's only headcanon stating a connection with the Dream Depot to that game, as that game specifcally deals with the Dream Worlds and the Dream Stone which was simply created from good dreams and has no relation to the Dream Depot at all. If there's proof the Dream Stone and Dark Stone held power over all dreams/nightmares like was claimed before, then I'd like to see the japanese quote that supports this. Otherwise they have nothing supporting low multiversal even as the peak of their capabilities.
Would this effect the Tier 2 feats at all? Well, if a universe was stated to be parallel then naturally it should hold an equal amount of stuff in it, so Black Jewel possibly would be upgraded (if we ever get around to lumping Wario in with the Mario universe again); the uni reset in Galaxy is a maybe: Sammers Kingdom is simply "another dimension" so it stays where it's at. Power Stars, however, do have the context of Bowser wanting to extend his painting worlds to encompass all of reality, which would likely include these many universe-sized "worlds," so possibly an upgrade there and then for Grand Stars as well due to upscaling.
And to clarify, NO I'm not saying all galaxies are universes. I'm saying "Grand/Large Galaxy" specifcally mentioned by Lubba and the World Map from Galaxy 1 in Japanese has context and evidence pointing to that pertaining to the universe. Regular galaxies can arguably be 2-B due to labels of "Galaxy" being used for superclusters, though the ones Lumas turn into are indeed singular, but I only listed it as a possibility, not a definitive tier change.
Most of my support and evidence comes from the Japanese localizations because we like to use those as the main source. English is only used as supplementary evidence and/or the english and japanese translations say the same thing.
I have a feeling this is gonna be very controversial, but the evidence is all there. Frankly, there's too much to simply ignore this. It has to be acknowledged.
If there's anything you feel needs a scan that I haven't already provided within the links I've given, feel free to point it out to me. I can pull up japanese quotes pretty easily now, and that language has the most authority as it's the original source, and I've made it a point to source mostly japanese scans supporting all my claims. None of this is unfounded, I can assure you.
Also feel free to add any extra evidence if you have any, but try to keep it focused on the stuff in the OP if you can.
And because I know this is kind of a big thing and Mario tends to attract the worst derailments and toxicity, please try to remain on topic and be civil. Actually discuss.
Many people point at the planets, stars, and galaxies in the Mario Galaxy and say, "well, they're puny!'
But this thread is gonna try to prove why the universe may be bigger than it seems.
The main point here is that I believe there's enough evidence that shows the 'Worlds" in Super Mario Galaxy 2 are indeed their own universes. And I also believe with context, the Japanese localizations support "Galaxy" being a sort of umbrella term synonymous with bigger cosmological objects, including the Universe itself.
I'll now try and go over my evidence.and why I believe some counters don't hold up.
1.) Galaxies in the Marioverse are small
A minor point but one I still want to address.
This is easily disproven by Worlds 4 and 5 existing, but let's add even more onto the plate, hm?
As seen here, "Galaxy" is said in Japanese but it is practically synonymous with "World" at least in the Galaxy series.
As we all know, World 5 is a galaxy cluster as evident and made abundantly clear by the background.
Also in those quotes is Lubba stating that they've entered another world/galaxy upon entering, showing that "galaxy" can even mean a supercluster. I've already provided the evidence why "World" and "Galaxy" are linked as well.
This means that the Lumas and high-ends for the Power Stars should be upgraded to include "possibly 3-B" because the term "galaxy" in Mario can be used to describe a portion of space containing thousands upon thousands of galaxies. Suppose you subscribe to the belief that Galaxy 1 only takes place in one galaxy that you head to the center of in the ending, this would fit in line with how it's possible to have visited many galaxies within a single "Galaxy".
For more proof "Galaxy" can refer to the whole thing, look no further than the Japanese name for World 5.
As shown here, World 5, a cluster of galaxies, has the heading: "World 5: Galaxy of Trials". Notice how it's singular despite the many galaxies? This seems pretty blatant.
This is an excerpt from the Japanese site for Galaxy 2. It basically says that there are multiple galaxies characteristic of one world, so, again, more proof for "World" = Many galaxies and "world" = "galaxy"
Even more proof there exist these "galaxies" capable of holding clusters is the World Map from Galaxy 1.
It's titled "Grand Galaxy Map" which shows there's a bigger "galaxy" that contains the smaller galaxies. Worth noting the English version calls this a map of the Universe, and guess what? The Green Luma that says the Trial Galaxies are at the edges of the Universe? Also exists in Japanese specifically saying "end of the universe," showing that this "Grand Galaxy Map" is actually of the universe since you can see the Trial Galaxies mapped out at the bottom left. Keep this in mind for later.
Worth noting that one of these "smaller" galaxies is Supermassive Galaxy (simply called Big Big Galaxy in Japan) where everything is HUGE, likely meaning that specific galaxy is bigger than the average
However, we can go further...
I'd like to refer to the Japanese name for World 2.
As we can clearly see, it says that World 2 is a new universe. Now, I'm aware this isn't a new finding, so let me clear up the counter claim people have made:
2.) You can also translate it as "A New Space"
I don't really see the point in this argument? Lubba states that you literally cross space-time when using a Grand Star to go to a new world/"galaxy". Wouldn't the fact that the world's title "A New Space," and Lubba's assertion that this is a new world imply this new space is a different space-time anyways? Why would you be saying "new" to a space that already existed within your own space-time? It doesn't make sense. You also get to "A New Space" via crossing space-time. Given context I feel it being another universe works personally. Besides, their less powerful ccounterparts have made dimensional portals before so it's not really unlikely to presume Grand Stars also have that capability. Crossing from an old world into a new, unknown world via space-time and the space-time door being labeled as a dimensional door on the official Japanese website? This sounds a lot like universe crossing even without the context that "World" can mean universe.
We should also consider the characterization here. Lubba is an elder Luma who has met Rosalina, knows who Young Master Luma is, and had previously traveled space in his own spaceship until Bowser intervened. Why would he describe these worlds as unknown and new if he's already traveled the universe?
We also have to consider the consistency here. In Galaxy 1, the Comet Observatory showed us you don't need portals to traverse the universe utilising all the Power Stars. It should already grant a spaceship the necessary means to travel the universe by pure flight alone.
Should also note that the "Grand Galaxy Map" that can depict galaxies at the end of the universe likely meaning this "grand/large galaxy" is referring to and mapping out a universe, which is more or less confirmed by Rosalina herself, isn't the first time "grand/large galaxy" was said. In Galaxy 2, as we've seen from the posts in the reddit thread, Lubba specifically says "large galaxy" when meaning these Worlds you travel to. We've established that a Grand/Large Galaxy may very well mean the universe contextually, so wouldn't these be considered universes as well?
3.) "New Space" refers to the fact a new universe was created at the end of Galaxy 1
Admittedly, I can see why people would think this and it would make sense if not for the fact Lubba's lines about a "new world/galaxy" appear more than once. There's also the fact that World 1's title is simply "The Journey Into Space". If they wanted to make it known the universe/space was new they could've done it there. Chronologically "A New Space/Universe" coming after that kind of implies a separate thing. A transition from the known to the unknown; old to new. And, again, contextually speaking this argument doesn't hold up well as It's likely a description of the World itself or what you're doing in that World based on the titles for the other Worlds.
There's also context we should take into account. The World titles are shown on the File Select Screen, and seem to be like more of a chapter title/description of the places you're currently in or what you're doing. World 1 is "The Journey Into Space," World 3's is "The Adventure Around the Star," World 4's is "A World (Sekai) of Wonder," World 5's is "The Galaxy of Trials," and World 6's is "Go For Bowser"
Notice how they are all describing the places Mario is in or explaining an action involved with the World? It wouldn't make sense for this World 2 description to be figurative and a reference to the last game like, at all. It makes more sense contextually speaking to treat it as a description like most of the other World titles. And I've already explained why traveling to "A New Space/Universe" after crossing space and time into what's notably referred to as a new and unknown world doesn't make any sense to be interpreted as anything but "new world" backing up the "new universe" descriptor, thereby equating "world" to "universe".
4.) How does the English version of Super Mario Galaxy get "Center of the Universe" from "Center of the Galaxy"?
As shown from the possibility of the Worlds in Galaxy 2 being universes, as well as the synonymous link between "world" and "galaxy" in Galaxy 2, one can surmise that since "World" might = "Universe" and "World" = "Galaxy," that this then means "Galaxy" = "Universe"
Even beyond the games, developer interviews and site descriptions talk of exploring the universe or the stage being the universe (search in page for "universe" to find the exact quotes), but in the Japanese version of Galaxy 1, you're supposedly only confined to reaching "The Center of the Galaxy" as your final destination that requires maximum power. Therefore, "Galaxy" equating to universe would make this make a lot more sense and explain away all the inconsistencies with the guides and both localizations, too
There's also context in the game that supports this.
Bowser wanted to establish a galactic empire from a star that would become the core of his new universe. Toads and Luigi state that Bowser is collecting the Power Stars so that he can become "King of the Universe" or state something like "...or the universe will belong to Koopa" when referring to Luigi needing to try hard to find Power Stars or else. As we can clearly see, these characters refer to the wider universe as in trouble, and the "Grand Galaxy Map" supports this due to it likely being a map of the Universe as I explained before. We see Bowser's troops in places like the Trial Galaxy, proof that his range DID stretch out that far and aims for complete universal conquest.
Now, we've established even despite "center of the galaxy" being stated, Bowser's plan and reach was already universal. We also have a flat out "save the Universe" statement.
And finally, a Green Luma after the Green Launch Star is revived says this
Given the context above, from Bowser's universal dominion to actual statements that Bowser would own the universe and that you need to save it, it seems clear to me that "galaxy" here is actually referring to the universe. And again, developers and website descriptions all talk of the universe being the setting and what you're saving, not the galaxy. And also again, the "Grand Galaxy" can very well refer to the universe due to evidence I've posted above.
5.) Well then, if the Worlds/Galaxies can be universes, then what are the characters, creators, guides, and official site descriptions talking about when they say "the universe"?
This one has a pretty simple explanation. The main Mario Universe is simply a macrocosm. I mean, think about it. Look at things like the Dream Depot for instance. When was it ever stated it was detached from Mario's universe? It uses a vague "world" (which are common for Mario c'mon now) and says it's a land of dreams, but that doesn't really mean much. If anything, the official story only says this in reference to where it lay:
"In the night sky, past the moon and beyond the stars, there's a dream world known as Dream Depot, where everyone's dreams come together. This is the real land of dreams... In this land, there are Star Guards who protect the dreams of all."
Now, tell me where again it's specifically stated this is another universe or
realm? If anything, evidence supports the Dream Depot being in outer space as well as the fact it literally says it exists IN the night sky, as in, the universe/space.
Why is this part important? Because the Dream Depot is where all dreams go, and as shown by the ending, all dreams are of equal size, and given we KNOW dreams can be universes, that means all those universe-sized dreams exist within a part of outer space, showing that Mario's universe being a macrocosm holding multiple universe-sized worlds isn't something unique to just Galaxy.
Even within Galaxy, the fact we can still see stars and space while the universe gets reset could also prove my point that Mario's reality can contain multiple.
So basically:
- The Cosmology of the main universe gets updated to include that of multiple universe-sized worlds due to World 2's descriptor in Japanese being "A New Universe" and supported by context with how the game treats the other World's titles, the characterization of Lubba and him confirming these worlds as new and unknown even to him, and how you need to cross "dimensional doors" opening pathways in space and time in order to reach these new worlds when before the full power of the Power Stars was more than good enough to cross a single universe without need for space-time crossing. Also, potentially including the fact the Dream Depot is just in space somewhere and a physical place Bowser and Mini Bowser simply just waltzed into somehow according to the official story which has an uncountable amount of universe-sized dreams. I've been made aware this would be High-End Low 2-C for the main universe, so let's make it so now that we've got a tier we can apply
- Dream Stone being literally made of dreans is not in the Japanese version, and Dream Team being linked to Mario Party 5 is mostly baseless and unfounded. The Dream World is a singular term used in Dream Team because the Dream World is a sort of parallel world to the Real World. The Dream Stone's spirit lay resting in it's appropriate Dream World spot it would have been in the Real World and that's a direct plot point. Even if there does exist multiple dream dimensions no one scales to it as no actual merging through physical or magical force took place. Therefore, until further evidence can be provided that the Dream World is a 2-B structure without relying on the Dream Depot and with proof characters or artifacts could scale to it, we should downgrade any Dream Stone-related feats and reasonings and figure out what tier it actually is. For now, perhaps an "Unknown (used the power of dreams in order to grant wishes, which is unquantifiable, as Bowser's dream was considered superior to your normal dream by Antasma but we were never shown how powerful that dream energy was) and Varies due to the power of other's dreams amping it in unequal amounts"
- Dreamy Luigi's listed on Antasma's profile as having manipulated constellations as a justification for his tier. This constellation clearly doesn't depict actual stars and thus should be removed as a feat and justification altogether.
And no, it being a world created by everyone's dreams or just "world" isn't enough proof it's a separate realm distanced from the universe. All context implies it lay within the universe and there would need to be proof displayed otherwise. Physical lands of dreams have existed before in other media, and there's no proof saying this one is ethereal or a separate dimension like, at all. Especially given the fact Bowser simply flew away in the end.
People can bring up Dream Team but there's only headcanon stating a connection with the Dream Depot to that game, as that game specifcally deals with the Dream Worlds and the Dream Stone which was simply created from good dreams and has no relation to the Dream Depot at all. If there's proof the Dream Stone and Dark Stone held power over all dreams/nightmares like was claimed before, then I'd like to see the japanese quote that supports this. Otherwise they have nothing supporting low multiversal even as the peak of their capabilities.
Would this effect the Tier 2 feats at all? Well, if a universe was stated to be parallel then naturally it should hold an equal amount of stuff in it, so Black Jewel possibly would be upgraded (if we ever get around to lumping Wario in with the Mario universe again); the uni reset in Galaxy is a maybe: Sammers Kingdom is simply "another dimension" so it stays where it's at. Power Stars, however, do have the context of Bowser wanting to extend his painting worlds to encompass all of reality, which would likely include these many universe-sized "worlds," so possibly an upgrade there and then for Grand Stars as well due to upscaling.
And to clarify, NO I'm not saying all galaxies are universes. I'm saying "Grand/Large Galaxy" specifcally mentioned by Lubba and the World Map from Galaxy 1 in Japanese has context and evidence pointing to that pertaining to the universe. Regular galaxies can arguably be 2-B due to labels of "Galaxy" being used for superclusters, though the ones Lumas turn into are indeed singular, but I only listed it as a possibility, not a definitive tier change.
Most of my support and evidence comes from the Japanese localizations because we like to use those as the main source. English is only used as supplementary evidence and/or the english and japanese translations say the same thing.
I have a feeling this is gonna be very controversial, but the evidence is all there. Frankly, there's too much to simply ignore this. It has to be acknowledged.
If there's anything you feel needs a scan that I haven't already provided within the links I've given, feel free to point it out to me. I can pull up japanese quotes pretty easily now, and that language has the most authority as it's the original source, and I've made it a point to source mostly japanese scans supporting all my claims. None of this is unfounded, I can assure you.
Also feel free to add any extra evidence if you have any, but try to keep it focused on the stuff in the OP if you can.
And because I know this is kind of a big thing and Mario tends to attract the worst derailments and toxicity, please try to remain on topic and be civil. Actually discuss.
Last edited:
