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Super Flying Ninja Broken Beer Bottle Neck and Eggplant Shanking no Jutsu of the Thunder God's Spiraling Sphere level 4 x3 Grade 4 (Naruto Top Tiers)

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Why would Obito be destroying the world when he wants to place everyone under IT doesn't that contradict the plot and main goal of his?
 
KingogKings777 said:
Why would Obito be destroying the world when he wants to place everyone under IT doesn't that contradict the plot and main goal of his?
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We covered that.

Or are you arguing against it being a Possibly?
 
So like since we got Edo versions, shouldn’t the alive counterparts get “At Least” with their rating?
 
Attack Potency: Large Country level with Tandem Paper Bombs (Destroyed one of Edo Hashirama’s Deity Gates[1], that could previously withstand the Third Form Jūbi’s charged Bijū Bombs[2]. Destroyed a weakened Edo Hashirama’s Mokuton that was capable of restraining Juubito[1] [100 Teratons])
Click to expand...

If we're using Hashirama's feat of restraining Juubito as a feat that's scalable to AP than shouldn't Tobirama scale to Uncontrolled Juubito's value of 196.7 Teratons instead of the value of the Third Form Jubi bombs?

If we aren't, then the second portion of the explanation about Hashirama restraining Juubito should probably be removed for clarity sake.
 
Deceived3596 said:
If we're using Hashirama's feat of restraining Juubito as a feat that's scalable to AP than shouldn't Tobirama scale to Uncontrolled Juubito's value of 196.7 Teratons instead of the value of the Third Form Jubi bombs?

If we aren't, then the second portion of the explanation about Hashirama restraining Juubito should probably be removed for clarity sake.
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Nah, tbh, I think you're right. Obito is both confirmed to be stronger than Hashirama and it didn't even look like he was trying to escape or anything. I think it should be removed, probably.
TFO said:
@UchihaSlayer96 Wouldn’t Naruto scale to the full amount alone with the 9 Rasengans instead of half?
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Uhhh, I'm thinking probably not? Why would we scale Naruto to a feat performed in the Majestic Attire? Not to mention, it's like 9 attacks hitting the TSO at once, idk about Naruto's regular attacks scaling to that. And I'm really iffy on scaling anyone to Juubito at that point of the fight, anyway, due to his deteriorating mental state.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Nah, tbh, I think you're right. Obito is both confirmed to be stronger than Hashirama and it didn't even look like he was trying to escape or anything. I think it should be removed, probably.

Uhhh, I'm thinking probably not? Why would we scale Naruto to a feat performed in the Majestic Attire? Not to mention, it's like 9 attacks hitting the TSO at once, idk about Naruto's regular attacks scaling to that. And I'm really iffy on scaling anyone to Juubito at that point of the fight, anyway, due to his deteriorating mental state.
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Iirc, Majestic Attire doesn’t increase Kurama or Naruto’s Own Chakra, no? Those Rasengans wouldn’t have been amped by Sasuke’s Chakra as all he is doing is wrapping Susanoo around Naruto. Those Rasengan’s were formed purely from Naruto’s Chakra.

I could be wrong though.
 
TFO said:
Iirc, Majestic Attire doesn’t increase Kurama or Naruto’s Own Chakra, no? Those Rasengans wouldn’t have been amped by Sasuke’s Chakra as all he is doing is wrapping Susanoo around Naruto. Those Rasengan’s were formed purely from Naruto’s Chakra.

I could be wrong though.
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Doesn't the MA tails thrust them into the shield, aka adding to their momentum.
 
TFO said:
Iirc, Majestic Attire doesn’t increase Kurama or Naruto’s Own Chakra, no? Those Rasengans wouldn’t have been amped by Sasuke’s Chakra as all he is doing is wrapping Susanoo around Naruto. Those Rasengan’s were formed purely from Naruto’s Chakra.

I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Ehhh, idk. We're led to believe that NaruSasu's MA is more of a merging of their chakras, which makes sense since both the Susano'o and the Kurama Avatar are comprised purely of chakra. And in that same battle with Momoshiki we see that the MA was able to easily overpower the Lava Monkey, which was previously giving the Kurama Avatar trouble. I think it makes more sense that it's Naruto + Sasuke overall.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Doesn't the MA tails thrust them into the shield, aka adding to their momentum.
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Ehhh, idk. We're led to believe that NaruSasu's MA is more of a merging of their chakras, which makes sense since both the Susano'o and the Kurama Avatar are comprised purely of chakra. And in that same battle with Momoshiki we see that the MA was able to easily overpower the Lava Monkey, which was previously giving the Kurama Avatar trouble. I think it makes more sense that it's Naruto + Sasuke overall.

Yes.
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There's also a statement from the movie novel version of the momoshiki fight that says that MA is more than the sum of their power together I belive but we don't treat it as canon, just supporting stuff ig
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Ehhh, idk. We're led to believe that NaruSasu's MA is more of a merging of their chakras, which makes sense since both the Susano'o and the Kurama Avatar are comprised purely of chakra. And in that same battle with Momoshiki we see that the MA was able to easily overpower the Lava Monkey, which was previously giving the Kurama Avatar trouble. I think it makes more sense that it's Naruto + Sasuke overall.

Yes.
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That specific method was like how he specifically used the Biju Chakra to amp his Susanoo. That form isn’t Majestic Attire, rather just a Biju “amped” Susanoo. I think there’s a misconception the fandom has regarding that form.

Majestic Attire is only stated to be the wrapping of Susanoo over Kurama like armour as per the Databook.
 
Stryker861 said:
There's also a statement from the movie novel version of the momoshiki fight that says that MA is more than the sum of their power together I belive but we don't treat it as canon, just supporting stuff ig
Click to expand...
There was? Well I think then there are 2 Versions of Majestic Attire.
  1. Version 1 — Simply Covering Kurama Avatar in Susanoo like Armor (Databook)
  2. Version 2 — Using Kurama’s Chakra (Or Biju Chakra) to amp Susanoo (As of VoTE 2 & Vs Fused Momoshiki).
And we know Version 2 would he the stronger Version because it is stated to be amplifying Susanoo and its a different form. This also makes sense as, Base Momoshiki still Popped open Version 1 Majestic Attire, when it is just being used as Armor, in the Chunin Exams.

Edit: It’s a Separate Topic. We can discuss it elsewhere
 
Sorry for the delay - yesterday was ridiculous IRL.

UchihaSlayer96 said:
Juubito's TSB shield was able to take 4 charged Juubidamas with zero damage. We know it took all the damage because the blasts were contained entirely within the Crimson Ray Formation, and not allowed to escape, and Obito was pretty much at the epicenter.
Click to expand...

This is the main part that I take issue with.

It's sort of being glossed over that the detonation of the four Biju Bombs inside the barrier does not mean that Obito's shield is tanking the total combined force of all four explosions.

First of all the barrier isn't a perfectly contained volume like a sealed room from which none of the energy can escape; it's got an open top which is where we can see a lot of the explosive force escaping through.

Furthermore, let's say that Obito's spherical shield has a diameter of 3 meters to comfortably contain him, which would give it a surface area of 28.27 m^2.

Even if each face of Obito's hexagonal barrier had a low-balled length of 1 km, the internal area alone would be 2,600,000 m^2. This isn't even taking into account volume which would be much larger. Even if there's four bombs, the energy is going to still be spread out over an insanely large volume inside the barrier. Not the same as the shield tanking a point-blank explosion.

This might be a different story if the bombs detonated right next to Obito, but they didn't. We can see that Obito shoots the bombs out from the stalk that he is floating next to, so the bombs are up to several hundreds of meters or kilometers away from him when they detonate. His shield cannot be assumed to be "pretty much at the epicenter".

So I have to disagree with the 200 Teratons part of the scaling.
 
Damage3245 said:
Sorry for the delay - yesterday was ridiculous IRL.



This is the main part that I take issue with.

It's sort of being glossed over that the detonation of the four Biju Bombs inside the barrier does not mean that Obito's shield is tanking the total combined force of all four explosions.

First of all the barrier isn't a perfectly contained volume like a sealed room from which none of the energy can escape; it's got an open top which is where we can see a lot of the explosive force escaping through.

Furthermore, let's say that Obito's spherical shield has a diameter of 3 meters to comfortably contain him, which would give it a surface area of 28.27 m^2.

Even if each face of Obito's hexagonal barrier had a low-balled length of 1 km, the internal area alone would be 2,600,000 m^2. This isn't even taking into account volume which would be much larger. Even if there's four bombs, the energy is going to still be spread out over an insanely large volume inside the barrier. Not the same as the shield tanking a point-blank explosion.

This might be a different story if the bombs detonated right next to Obito, but they didn't. We can see that Obito shoots the bombs out from the stalk that he is floating next to, so the bombs are up to several hundreds of meters or kilometers away from him when they detonate. His shield cannot be assumed to be "pretty much at the epicenter".

So I have to disagree with the 200 Teratons part of the scaling.
Click to expand...
Fair point. Perhaps Juubito can simply scale to 200 Teratons for blocking attacks from BSM Nard and Susanoo Sasuke at the same time.

As proposed KM Naruto scales to 98,35 TT. KSM Naruto is much stronger than KM Naruto, so he can upscale to 100 TT (Baseline High 6-B). Senjutsu/Perfect Susano'o Sasuke is comparable to KSM Naruto so he gets that rating as well. Juubito gets 2x that for blocking both of their attacks simultaneously. (200 TT)

Outside of them though not much else changes. Full Kurama is still 197 TT, and Madara's Perfect Susano'o still scales to that since he mentions it being a rival to the Bijuu, so 197 TT. Madara's Majestic Attire Susano'o then becomes 394 TT, Alive SM Hashirama crushed Majestic Attire Susano'o with his Mokuton, so he too also scales to 394 TT.

We end up with Alive SM Hashirama being stronger than Juubito, lmao.

On that note, if we upscale Juubito from Alive SM Hashirama (I think there are some statements from Hashirama mentioning Juubito being stronger than him, but this probably refers to his Edo form so there isn't much proof Juubito being stronger than Alive Hashirama specifically). Then we end up with Juubito being 394 TT, with KSM Naruto and Senjutsu Susano'o Sasuke being full Kurama level (197 TT)
 
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Padaruyos said:
On that note, if we upscale Juubito from Alive SM Hashirama (I think there are some statements from Hashirama mentioning Juubito being stronger than him, but this probably refers to his Edo form so there isn't much proof Juubito being stronger than Alive Hashirama specifically). Then we end up with Juubito being 394 TT, with KSM Naruto and Senjutsu Susano'o Sasuke being full Kurama level (197 TT)
Click to expand...
I don’t think there’s anything to say Juubito must be > alive SM Hashirama
 
Damage3245 said:
Sorry for the delay - yesterday was ridiculous IRL.



This is the main part that I take issue with.

It's sort of being glossed over that the detonation of the four Biju Bombs inside the barrier does not mean that Obito's shield is tanking the total combined force of all four explosions.

First of all the barrier isn't a perfectly contained volume like a sealed room from which none of the energy can escape; it's got an open top which is where we can see a lot of the explosive force escaping through.

Furthermore, let's say that Obito's spherical shield has a diameter of 3 meters to comfortably contain him, which would give it a surface area of 28.27 m^2.

Even if each face of Obito's hexagonal barrier had a low-balled length of 1 km, the internal area alone would be 2,600,000 m^2. This isn't even taking into account volume which would be much larger. Even if there's four bombs, the energy is going to still be spread out over an insanely large volume inside the barrier. Not the same as the shield tanking a point-blank explosion.

This might be a different story if the bombs detonated right next to Obito, but they didn't. We can see that Obito shoots the bombs out from the stalk that he is floating next to, so the bombs are up to several hundreds of meters or kilometers away from him when they detonate. His shield cannot be assumed to be "pretty much at the epicenter".

So I have to disagree with the 200 Teratons part of the scaling.
Click to expand...
I don’t think the blast escaping the top of the crimson ray formation should matter much. As if you are at the epicenter of a blast, even if the blast isn’t contained by a barrier, you’d still fully scale. However, I can see your point of contention with Juubito being inherently at the epicenter.

I agree with the notion that Juubito isn’t objectively in the epicenter of the quad blast. However, we don’t technically see where the bombs explode, since we cut away to an outside shot before the explode. So, I think it’s possible that the barrier could have ricocheted the Bijuudama back to Juubito, given we know the barrier has elastic properties. In which case it’s possible Juubito could still be the epicenter.

So, with that in mind, and Damage’s points as well, I think I’d be dishonest if I said the ~400 teraton Juubito rating deserved more than a possibly rating. I do think “higher, possibly ~400 Teratons” for controlled Juubito is fine given the information presented at the moment tho.

Edit: I think there’s a little bit of author intent with Juubito being capable of withstanding 4 Bijuudama too. Given I doubt the author thinks about stuff like surface area and distance from the epicenter. However, I’m not going to argue that as a main point since it’s subjective, just figured I’d mention it as support for the possibly.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I don’t think the blast escaping the top of the crimson ray formation should matter much. As if you are at the epicenter of a blast, even if the blast isn’t contained by a barrier, you’d still fully scale. However, I can see your point of contention with Juubito being inherently at the epicenter.

I agree with the notion that Juubito isn’t objectively in the epicenter of the quad blast. However, we don’t technically see where the bombs explode, since we cut away to an outside shot before the explode. So, I think it’s possible that the barrier could have ricocheted the Bijuudama back to Juubito, given we know the barrier has elastic properties. In which case it’s possible Juubito could still be the epicenter.

So, with that in mind, and Damage’s points as well, I think I’d be dishonest if I said the ~400 teraton Juubito rating deserved more than a possibly rating. I do think “higher, possibly ~400 Teratons” for controlled Juubito is fine given the information presented at the moment tho.
Click to expand...
There is no reason to think that the Biju Bombs were ricocheted back towards him.

We see them flying away, the explosion immediately happens next with the barrier swelling to contain it.

So I'm 100% against the possibly rating as well.
 
Damage3245 said:
There is no reason to think that the Biju Bombs were ricocheted back towards him.

We see them flying away, the explosion immediately happens next with the barrier swelling to contain it.

So I'm 100% against the possibly rating as well.
Click to expand...
I personally still think it’s a bit vague to claim something concrete like that, but there’s not much evidence I can provide for that. I’m gonna check the anime real quick to see if it makes anything clearer. Otherwise, I’ll wait for others to give opinions or potentially concede as I think longer about it.
 
Mmmmmmm the anime kinda makes it seem like the bombs explode at the edge, in line with Damage’s interpretation. So, I think I’ll concede that point.
 
Padaruyos said:
Fair point. Perhaps Juubito can simply scale to 200 Teratons for blocking attacks from BSM Nard and Susanoo Sasuke at the same time.

As proposed KM Naruto scales to 98,35 TT. KSM Naruto is much stronger than KM Naruto, so he can upscale to 100 TT (Baseline High 6-B). Senjutsu/Perfect Susano'o Sasuke is comparable to KSM Naruto so he gets that rating as well. Juubito gets 2x that for blocking both of their attacks simultaneously. (200 TT)

Outside of them though not much else changes. Full Kurama is still 197 TT, and Madara's Perfect Susano'o still scales to that since he mentions it being a rival to the Bijuu, so 197 TT. Madara's Majestic Attire Susano'o then becomes 394 TT, Alive SM Hashirama crushed Majestic Attire Susano'o with his Mokuton, so he too also scales to 394 TT.

We end up with Alive SM Hashirama being stronger than Juubito, lmao.

On that note, if we upscale Juubito from Alive SM Hashirama (I think there are some statements from Hashirama mentioning Juubito being stronger than him, but this probably refers to his Edo form so there isn't much proof Juubito being stronger than Alive Hashirama specifically). Then we end up with Juubito being 394 TT, with KSM Naruto and Senjutsu Susano'o Sasuke being full Kurama level (197 TT)
Click to expand...
I guess we can go with this scaling?

If this revision got through I'll make an Alive SM Hashirama vs Juubito thread, lmao.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah minus the Juubito > Alive SM Hashirama, idk if there’s any evidence to support that
Click to expand...

KM Naruto: 98,35 TT (6-B+)
KSM Naruto: 100 TT (High 6-B up scaling)
Senjutsu/Perfect Susano'o Sasuke: 100 TT
Juubito: 200 TT
Kurama: 196,7 TT
Madara's Perfect Susano'o: 196,7 TT
Majestic Attire Susano'o: 393,4 TT
Alive SM Hashirama's Mokuton: 393,4 TT

Aight we'll go with this since there isn't much evidence saying Juubito is stronger than Alive SM Hashirama.
 
Feels weird seeing Kushina getting a higher rating than KSM Naruto tbh. KSM Naruto would get his ass beat by his mother.
 
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