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its directly stated by gohan as necessary to even fly let alone throw a ki blast
That's what I mean. Ki control isn't some magical plot device that allows the characters to control their attack radius. Ki control is how they focus their energy throughout their body for combative use. You've literally just restated my point.
 
That's what I mean. Ki control isn't some magical plot device that allows the characters to control their attack radius. Ki control is how they focus their energy throughout their body for combative use. You've literally just restated my point.
You said "Ki control is fanfiction". Not that Ki control is misinterpreted.
 
That's what I mean. Ki control isn't some magical plot device that allows the characters to control their attack radius. Ki control is how they focus their energy throughout their body for combative use. You've literally just restated my point.
Because we all know that MUI Goku’s full power attacks would leave all the krillins of the world perfectly fine despite the low 2-C blast radius
 
That's what I mean. Ki control isn't some magical plot device that allows the characters to control their attack radius. Ki control is how they focus their energy throughout their body for combative use. You've literally just restated my point.
Yes, it is the ability to control their Ki, which is why it's called "Ki control", and this control allows them to control what damage their attacks do. There is plenty of visual evidence behind that, and by plenty I mean almost every Ki attack after the Saiyan Saga.
 
Do you really think that a Kamehameha from Namek Saga Goku and beyond isn't stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta's Galick Gun?
I just think about it like this. If every time a character who was multiversal landed a punch they actually did the corresponding amount of damage, the story couldn't progress. I'm simply arguing this is due to plot, not some in universe explanation.
Literally every teacher Goku had starting from the lookout taught him a form of controlling his Ki.
And?
Vegeta even said in the manga (Android Saga I think?) that if he wasn't constantly restraining his blasts, the Earth would have been destroyed a while ago.
Do you have a link to that out of curiosity. I'm interested because restraining your blast by not using full power, and restraining the size of the blast are two different thing, and a scan could provide context as to which one it is. If I'm wrong, I'll hold that L.
Do you really think that a Kamehameha from Namek Saga Goku and beyond isn't stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta's Galick Gun?
No. Destruction < Clear Narrative Implications.
 
The whole argument about Ki control's property of controlling AoE being a myth is ignoring the fact that even start of Z Piccolo, who was fodder to Raditz, could easily annihilate the moon with a normal Ki blast, and Saiyan Saga Vegeta could turn the Earth to ashes with his Galick Gun. Any mid-tier Namek Saga character is stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, yet their blasts don't even showcase mountain level destructive capacity. That isn't because they're not planet level or using less than a trillionth of their power, it's because they're controlling how much area their blast's effect.
 
Yes, it is the ability to control their Ki, which is why it's called "Ki control", and this control allows them to control what damage their attacks do. There is plenty of visual evidence behind that, and by plenty I mean almost every Ki attack after the Saiyan Saga.
By that logic, Genos has physics control because some of his punches only make craters instead of appropriate town level destruction.
 
I just think about it like this. If every time a character who was multiversal landed a punch they actually did the corresponding amount of damage, the story couldn't progress. I'm simply arguing this is due to plot, not some in universe explanation.

And?

Do you have a link to that out of curiosity. I'm interested because restraining your blast by not using full power, and restraining the size of the blast are two different thing, and a scan could provide context as to which one it is. If I'm wrong, I'll hold that L.

No. Destruction < Clear Narrative Implications.
But we have an in-universe explanation, even if it's not confirmed by someone directly, and it makes more sense to go with that than just chalking it up to the plot not allowing it. The point is that Ki control is the only way for us to make sense of this obvious ability that Dragon Ball characters have.

You started the discussion by outright saying that Ki control is fanfiction. If you didn't word what you meant properly that's fine, but it is what you said.

Actually it wasn't quite what I remembered. It has some correlation to Ki control, but not in that directsense. Basically in his fight with Android 18, where he fires a normal Ki blast and blows up a small area including a truck, 18 comments that he wasn't serious with the attack, which he follows up by saying that if he was he would've blown up the planet. I can't really link it because the only websites available are the weird piracy manga websites. I tried to upload an image of it from Google images but the link didn't work. The image just gets auto deleted. If you search up "vegeta mentions ki control" it'll be in the first 10 results.

What clear narrative implications? This is the thing. There is next to nothing that even could imply it is not how an aspect of Ki control functions, and it is only directly supported by a mountain of visual evidence across the whole franchise.
 
By that logic, Genos has physics control because some of his punches only make craters instead of appropriate town level destruction.
Strawman. The big difference here is that we have clear implications as well as an absurd amount of visual evidence to support that this is something Ki control can do. It isn't just a random theory backed by lacking amounts of evidence. I'm not saying it's confirmed, but I am saying that there is enough evidence to at least consider it as something likely to be true.

Besides, that's not even a good Strawman comparison tbh.
 
even if it's not confirmed by someone directly,
That's the only point I'm trying to make. The specific idea that they use ki control to alter their explosion's radius is headcanon. It's cool headcanon, makes plenty of sense, but it is headcanon.
when my Z boys use KI in combat = thats already a form of KI control

KI control aint fan fic

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Do you know English? The name Ki Control is canon, I never said that wasn't the case. In fact I said THE EXACT OPPOSITE

All I said was the idea of Ki Control being used to manipulate the size of their ki blasts is HEADCANON. Not Ki Control in its entirety.
 
I'm not saying it's confirmed, but I am saying that there is enough evidence to at least consider it as something likely to be true.
That's still headcanon though... So my Genos point isn't a strawman. There are a mountain of visual feats showing the same phenomenon with Genos, and there's a reasonable explanation due to Dr. Kueno's genius, but it would be wrong to treat it as a quasi fact.
 
That's still headcanon though... So my Genos point isn't a strawman. There are a mountain of visual feats showing the same phenomenon with Genos, and there's a reasonable explanation due to Dr. Kueno's genius, but it would be wrong to treat it as a quasi fact.
We know they can control their energy, we know these characters have been able to blow up planets since the Saiyan Saga, we know their Ki blast's later on are incomparably stronger than those planet busting attacks, but said Ki blast's do very little to the environment, so the most logical consensus for an in-universe explanation is that they can control the AoE of their blasts, because there is no other explanation given at all, nor any other theoretical explanation that would make sense. I'm also not saying that it isn't because the plot can't allow the characters to be destroying planets left in right from a more meta/out-of-universe, in fact I would agree with that, I'm saying that the only plausible or likely explanation that could be given from an in-universe perspective is that Ki control allows them to do this.

The Genos point is a Strawman because there is not only no evidence at all to suggest he can or is supposed to be able to control the AoE of his attacks, but there is also no explainable reason why he would be able to, contrary to Dragon Ball's characters, where we do have relevant evidence as well as logical reasoning. Genos is a cyborg that uses heat and has enhanced power via machinery, Dragon Ball character's use a supernatural, spiritual energy that they can control at their will to enhance themselves and fire blasts of energy. Even from a fictional standpoint, it would be weird and nonsensical for Genos to be capable of controlling the AoE of his attacks, especially his punches. Can't say the same for Dragon Ball characters, because they use a complete fantasy power that we cannot realistically comprehend to begin with.
 
try not to talk about another series in the OPM discussion thread challenge
spongebob-melt.gif


Not wrong. Tbf though I'm just partaking in it. Should still stop though.
 
Ki control is fanfiction. The only mentions of ki control are in minimizing the destruction caused by powerful transformations, and mainaining those transformations, not their actual attacks.

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/930983910597349436/1005232782122942514/unknown.png
 
Ki Control being used to manipulate the size of their ki blasts is HEADCANON. Not Ki Control in its entirety.

What do you mean with size? Gokus Kamehameha vs Berrus was bigger than my house.

or do you mean the collateral damage??

If we ignor the business thingy/laziness of mangakas ... KI control is the only answer.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
That's the only point I'm trying to make. The specific idea that they use ki control to alter their explosion's radius is headcanon. It's cool headcanon, makes plenty of sense, but it is headcanon.

Do you know English? The name Ki Control is canon, I never said that wasn't the case. In fact I said THE EXACT OPPOSITE

All I said was the idea of Ki Control being used to manipulate the size of their ki blasts is HEADCANON. Not Ki Control in its entirety.
That's not what headcanon is. That's called a theory. If I said something like "Ki control allows them to manipulate the fundamental laws of reality and control the space around their Ki blasts to make them have less of an effect on the real world", that would be headcanon. There is actual evidence and reasoning behind this, making it a theory, and a pretty likely one at that.
 
Not in here.
Not in here in regards to the off-topic discussion or in regards to it being a theory?

I'm wanting the discussion to end but I'll respond if I'm responded to (in most circumstances, not all).

It is definitely a theory, not headcanon, just based on literal definitions. And considering that nothing contradicts it as a theory, it's a likely one.
 
Does saitama get limited causality manip with the statement genos made?

That he’ll never use in a fight because of the memory wipe bullshit.
 
**** with plot fanfiction where Saitama is dating Fubuki and he cheated on her with Tatsumaki, also he get Tatsu pregnant with a girl, they named her Izumi
... :/
I swear to god I'm about to write 50 paragraph essay on how this partcular fafiction disregards the core of each character and contributes to the erasure of Ace people from fiction lmao.
 
Idk but all I know is Pereira KO’s Izzy within 4 rounds.
Izzy will play the point game he’s been playing for the past couple fights and we have no idea if pereira’s ground game is competent or not.

Izzy could say **** it I’m shooting a double leg at any time if he wanted to.
 
Does saitama get limited causality manip with the statement genos made?

That he’ll never use in a fight because of the memory wipe bullshit.
Well he technically manipulated causality by reversing time and making a drastic change in the past. It's sort of like causality manipulation, but it still just warrants being called time manipulation, or in this case, specifically time travel.

We don't actually need Genos' statement to deduce that, but Genos' statement supports it, I'd think.
 
Question: Does Garou keep the strength he copies permanently, even while outside of his Saitama Mode?

The answer to this question will determine whether or not Garou is a stone wall.

If he doesn't keep it, then Garou's base durability is 4-A as he tanked Serious Punches while outside of that form.
 
Question: Does Garou keep the strength he copies permanently, even while outside of his Saitama Mode?

The answer to this question will determine whether or not Garou is a stone wall.
Probably not. Every time he is fighting well with Saitama, we see Garou's version of Saitama's face plastered onto his own. Most likely he was just staying in Saitama Mode, which kept evolving every time the actual Saitama grew. But Garou's ability to copy could not keep up with Saitama's ability to grow, boosted by his emotional state.

He could still just make a mode for whoever he's up against though in a versus battle, as long as they're not so powerful he literally cannot copy them even remotely.
 
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