One Punch Man - Willpower is weird

[Phsccarvalho]

bump

 

[Lilybitdun]

There's already enough votes to be passed, OP just hasn't added Veitthai's vote

 

[MrTayman616]

Yeah but again willpower isn't something that has some objective magnitude. One person can have great willpower in the sense that they can withstand great amounts of physical pain while another can have great willpower in the sense that they can withstand great mental pressure like stress. But having 1 doesn't mean you have both nor does it mean your willpower will allow you to push yourself further than normal person in terms of something like a physically difficult task.

I mean, among those who has supernatural willpower and having abilities based on those, it's actually obvious in OPM that which characters has it.

We already don't apply anything that seem unknown.

Like Reactive Evolution, it is something shown by many character; Saitama, Garou, Puri Puri Prisoner, Orochi, Phoenix Man, Metal Bat. Or resistance to things like poison. Resurrection etc.

It can be measured by feats of willpower based abilities which it's already done like that.

Legit nobody except MB and the limiter breakers have shown fighting spirit. And nobody without psychic abilities have shown to resist mental/spiritual destruction through willpower.

Metal Bat is capable of overcoming death himself, he's like Orochi on that matter. It fits Gyoro Gyoro's explanation of getting explosive growth in the process as well. Others are not on that level(Fubuki for example), they're not shown to be overcoming death or anything similar.

Others not showing resistance to mental/spiritual destruction is simply because we didn't see Orochi attacking any relevant character other than Psykos. But we do know they have mental/spiritual resistances through willpower like Child Emperor, who escaped from the spirit world with sheer willpower which was supposed to be impossible according to Phoenix Man.

Though i can see the problem, especially that it can happen for nonreaders as it's not really clarified well, like Fubuki can't overcome death yet the page itself doesn't really clarify it. Some can easily confuse that Fubuki can overcome death. The page needs to make it clear.

---

Also, in case the page gets deleted, it's better to talk about which characters scale to which abilities. While many of them are obvious, there are some that is hard to determine imo.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Like Reactive Evolution, it is something shown by many character; Saitama, Garou, Puri Puri Prisoner, Orochi, Phoenix Man, Metal Bat. Or resistance to things like poison. Resurrection etc.

This is technically true but also misleading because their REs work completely differently.
For example PM straight up transforms, even gaining new abilities and completely changing his looks when evolving, while someone like MB just gets a stat boost. He also resurrects which we haven't reliably seen anyone else do so listing him as an example is misleading.

And that's not even mentioning Garou who's RE changes as the story progresses, at first only giving him stat amps during near death experiences, to then growing overtime without them, to him gaining a monster-like armor with hax like regeneration and energy beams. Which is vastly different from someone like PPP, MB, or PM.

The scope is also completely different. MB can keep up with Garou up until MBs sister hushed them away while PPP got neg-diffed by Garou instantly without any signs of reactive growth to catch up. Garou could go from bottom of S class to top of S class (except Blast ofc) in like few days through his RE but PPP has been stuck in the bottom tiers for years now.

It can be measured by feats of willpower based abilities which it's already done like that.

How do you measure it? Again I already went over how willpower comes in many shapes and forms and 2 willpower feats don't instantly translate to each other.

Others not showing resistance to mental/spiritual destruction is simply because we didn't see Orochi attacking any relevant character other than Psykos.

Can you prove that? Is there any evidence that the resistance is purely from willpower unrelated to psychic powers that she's blatantly using when resisting?

Because otherwise I honestly don't see why would we assume that's the case.

But we do know they have mental/spiritual resistances through willpower like Child Emperor, who escaped from the spirit world with sheer willpower which was supposed to be impossible according to Phoenix Man.

CE straight up couldn't resist PMs spiritual hax. He could escape the room, sure, but PMs spiritual hax very clearly were affecting him.

Which vastly different from Psykos vs Orochi.

Though i can see the problem, especially that it can happen for nonreaders as it's not really clarified well, like Fubuki can't overcome death yet the page itself doesn't really clarify it. Some can easily confuse that Fubuki can overcome death. The page needs to make it clear.

Or even better, nuked

Also, in case the page gets deleted, it's better to talk about which characters scale to which abilities. While many of them are obvious, there are some that is hard to determine imo.

I say we just scale them to the abilities and resistances they ACTUALLY showed for now and then if there's something more debatable we discuss it in separate threads. That way CRTs won't get too overwhelming

 

[MrTayman616]

For example PM straight up transforms, even gaining new abilities and completely changing his looks when evolving, while someone like MB just gets a stat boost. He also resurrects which we haven't reliably seen anyone else do so listing him as an example is misleading.

Yes. That was the same for Garou as well. His RE wasn't effective at first. It got better over time + overcoming death many times, breaking his limiter.

Metal Bat clearly talks about overcoming death, which also suits to Phoenix Man's resurrection + statement and Gyoro Gyoro's whole talk about how you need to overcome death in order to have explosive growth.

And that's not even mentioning Garou who's RE changes as the story progresses, at first only giving him stat amps during near death experiences, to then growing overtime without them, to him gaining a monster-like armor with hax like regeneration and energy beams. Which is vastly different from someone like PPP, MB, or PM.

Garou, in one day, overcame death many times, not just that but to the point of breaking his limiter which vastly increases the capacity and rate of RE. He reached an incomparable level.

MB and PM hadn't reach it to the level of breaking the limiter but shown explosive growth and resurrection.

It's not PPP who scales to Garou's willpower based abilities, it's the opposite. Those higher scales to those of below. Garou has been a very good example of it as he's the character who reached every point of it onscreen.

The scope is also completely different. MB can keep up with Garou up until MBs sister hushed them away while PPP got neg-diffed by Garou instantly without any signs of reactive growth to catch up. Garou could go from bottom of S class to top of S class (except Blast ofc) in like few days through his RE but PPP has been stuck in the bottom tiers for years now.

I'm not claiming something like "their willpower is equal to each other".

PPP isn't a "overcoming death" character and has a lower will compared to them. He doesn't reach the "overcoming death" explanation of Gyoro Gyoro.

He also resurrects which we haven't reliably seen anyone else do so listing him as an example is misleading.

Why? Other than MB, we saw Garou, Orochi and Phoenix Man overcome death and resurrect. (Orochi via statement and Saitama off-screen).

Also why would it matter? MB is one of the higher ones to begin with.

Can you prove that? Is there any evidence that the resistance is purely from willpower unrelated to psychic powers that she's blatantly using when resisting?

Because otherwise I honestly don't see why would we assume that's the case.

I mean, nothing can be "purely" proven unless it's so blatantly stated. Like a character flying, he seems to be flying but how? Air manipulation? Gravity manipulation? Or maybe someone invisible lifts him everytime? so can it even be called flying if it isn't stated to be? (it's not really a supporting claim btw, just a feeling i get every time i see that, so don't bother about it :d)

Using psychic energy itself requires concentration, Pyskos's mind/soul was getting corrupted, by such power that she was worried. She should be able to resist it just to start using psychic energy, which we know it was her willpower based on her talk there. She uses her psychic ability to force him back(Which we know God intervened at that moment)

Like Kachon says;

Psychic energy is empowered by willpower which uses a lot of mental energy. In One-Punch Man, mind = soul. Orochi was corrupting and deconstructing Psykos' soul when trying to take over her mind during the fusion. In order to take her mind back, she needed to use vast amounts willpower and mental energy to use her psychic energy. Esper powers don't have the ability to take over minds. All Psykos did was flex her willpower and mental energy, and because that's what esper powers run on, electricity released from her brain.

CE straight up couldn't resist PMs spiritual hax. He could escape the room, sure, but PMs spiritual hax very clearly were affecting him.

Which vastly different from Psykos vs Orochi.

Psykos was getting affected until she started resisting. Same with Child Emperor, who didn't escape from that space the moment he was summoned, but when Phoenix Man tried to turn him into a monster, which is the time he acts against it. Not to mention Child Emperor's will was wavering there because of Phoenix Man's words.

Also you could say none of the effects Phoenix Man done there remains.

Or even better, nuked

I say we just scale them to the abilities and resistances they ACTUALLY showed for now and then if there's something more debatable we discuss it in separate threads. That way CRTs won't get too overwhelming

Rather than changing the profiles twice, it's easier to just apply it at once. Also the thread barely entered the second page, so i don't think it'd get overwhelmed anyway.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with deleting it

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Whats the status of this

 

[Purgy]

Whats the status of this

Accepted and can be applied whenever someone feels like doing it.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I mean, LOK didn't come back to discuss, but the staff didn't change their vote either, so I think it is, I think anyone can apply this if it wasn't LOK.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I mean, LOK didn't come back to discuss, but the staff didn't change their vote either, so I think it is, I think anyone can apply this if it wasn't LOK.

Who is gonna apply it?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

bump

 

[Damage3245]

Can someone summarize what will be added to the profiles specifically, once the page is deleted?

 

[Kachon123]

I'll make a followup CRT with a sandbox detailing what changes and how everything will probably be listed on profiles.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

bump

 

[Phsccarvalho]

bump

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'll make a followup CRT with a sandbox detailing what changes and how everything will probably be listed on profiles.

Neato.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Willpower and The Limiter page

Willpower being a mechanic in-verse is fine and all, but many abilities here do not seem to be related with will.

Spoiler

This one is quite obvious

"Those who have full control over their bodies like us, are able to maintain their human form"

"But for someone from the village, you shouldn't have any problem"

No where it is stated about willpower. He is talking about body control that they prolly got due to their ninja training
However, it is stated that to not become a mindless monster you need a great will, but this is NOT the same as resisting the transformation itself, just mind/corruption resistance

Again, NOTHING here states anything about willpower? Psykos just states that she forced him back, and you know what she used in the previous panel? Her telekinesis, which by obvious reasons shouldn't be related to willpower universally.

However, the second scan is NOT working, so except if I'm missing some context/scan, I don't think this should scale to everyone (I have reread the chapter and couldn't find it)

Psykos pretty much states that if the subject dies, the process is over, there is no come back. So the Immortality should be removed
Also, why are we using Phoenix as an example? Bro is immortal

Metal Bat in the scan is beating himself to wake up and use his Fightning Spirit boost. It is not something done with sheer willpower. We even note in Metal Bat's profile that Fightning Spirt is something outside the normal willpower. So we either remove it, or assume that most of the verse has Fightning Spirt.

For Pri-Pri Prisoner, this feat happened in the chapter 107 (In fact, it depends, since on weeb central it happens on chapter 110). The whole thing is about Pri-Pri tanking everything that the monsters use against him, but in no instance it's stated if it's done with willpower at all. He just says that he can tank it thanks to his "Love", but the entire character of Pri-Pri is about him being delusional and stupid. I mean, look at this. And even so, I don't think we can say that "Love" is the same as "Willpower" at all.

And if we assume that Pri Pri is not delusional somehow, we should assume that "Angel Hug" is a genuine technique and it's what provide his resistance

Same as before

Same as before but this one got some anti feats, like Garou being under affect of arrows with poison. Despiste the poison not paralysing him, it is noted that it's affecting him. So at best it could be some Limited Resistance

And that's it. I was gonna make a Cursed Energy revision but realized that there's too many JJK crts so I went with this

EDIT: People seem to want to delete the page itself, so I will add this as an option too

Just remove the above

Agrees: @Damage3245

Disagree:

Neutral:

Delete the page itself:

Agrees: @Damage3245 @Phoenks @Kin201 @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn @Nierre

Disagree:

Neutral:

bump

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Kachon said that he is making a sandbox, no need for bumbs

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Willpower and The Limiter page

Willpower being a mechanic in-verse is fine and all, but many abilities here do not seem to be related with will.

Spoiler

This one is quite obvious

"Those who have full control over their bodies like us, are able to maintain their human form"

"But for someone from the village, you shouldn't have any problem"

No where it is stated about willpower. He is talking about body control that they prolly got due to their ninja training
However, it is stated that to not become a mindless monster you need a great will, but this is NOT the same as resisting the transformation itself, just mind/corruption resistance

Again, NOTHING here states anything about willpower? Psykos just states that she forced him back, and you know what she used in the previous panel? Her telekinesis, which by obvious reasons shouldn't be related to willpower universally.

However, the second scan is NOT working, so except if I'm missing some context/scan, I don't think this should scale to everyone (I have reread the chapter and couldn't find it)

Psykos pretty much states that if the subject dies, the process is over, there is no come back. So the Immortality should be removed
Also, why are we using Phoenix as an example? Bro is immortal

Metal Bat in the scan is beating himself to wake up and use his Fightning Spirit boost. It is not something done with sheer willpower. We even note in Metal Bat's profile that Fightning Spirt is something outside the normal willpower. So we either remove it, or assume that most of the verse has Fightning Spirt.

For Pri-Pri Prisoner, this feat happened in the chapter 107 (In fact, it depends, since on weeb central it happens on chapter 110). The whole thing is about Pri-Pri tanking everything that the monsters use against him, but in no instance it's stated if it's done with willpower at all. He just says that he can tank it thanks to his "Love", but the entire character of Pri-Pri is about him being delusional and stupid. I mean, look at this. And even so, I don't think we can say that "Love" is the same as "Willpower" at all.

And if we assume that Pri Pri is not delusional somehow, we should assume that "Angel Hug" is a genuine technique and it's what provide his resistance

Same as before

Same as before but this one got some anti feats, like Garou being under affect of arrows with poison. Despiste the poison not paralysing him, it is noted that it's affecting him. So at best it could be some Limited Resistance

And that's it. I was gonna make a Cursed Energy revision but realized that there's too many JJK crts so I went with this

EDIT: People seem to want to delete the page itself, so I will add this as an option too

Just remove the above

Agrees: @Damage3245

Disagree:

Neutral:

Delete the page itself:

Agrees: @Damage3245 @Phoenks @Kin201 @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn @Nierre

Disagree:

Neutral:

bump

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Okay, since nothing happened, I will make a post tonight about the changes and edit the pages

So far

• The willpower page is deleted
• Most of the P&A goes to Garou
• Some specific stuff goes to specitic characters

 

[MrTayman616]

I'll make a followup CRT with a sandbox detailing what changes and how everything will probably be listed on profiles.

Okay, since nothing happened, I will make a post tonight about the changes and edit the pages

So far

• The willpower page is deleted
• Most of the P&A goes to Garou
• Some specific stuff goes to specitic characters

You or Kachon?

 

[Kachon123]

There's no need to wait for me. Life got busier than I expected

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Okay, I said that I would edit today but I'm too tired. But I will make the post

Spoiler

• Regeneration (Low-Mid; Those with abnormally strong willpower can regenerate from their deadly injuries)

Goes to Garou

• Reactive Evolution (Those with abnormally strong willpower can experience explosive boosts of strength or going through an upsurge of emotion, evolving to a higher stage that causes them to gain new abilities and resistances for the situation)

Garou and Saitama

• BFR (Mind, Spirit; Child Emperor could break out of Phoenix Man's mental/spiritual plane through willpower)

Emperor, Garou and Saitama

• Mind Destruction, Mind Corruption, Soul Destruction & Soul Corruption (Psykos could avoid having her mind/soul corrupted and destroyed through willpower)

Psy

• Empathic Manipulation (Fubuki could avoid getting turned into a love slave by Do-s' whip through willpower)

Fubuki, Garou and Saitama ig

• Sleep Manipulation (Metal Bat could resist Rafflesidon's sleeping gas through willpower. Pri-Pri Prisoner could resist anesthetic gas through willpower)

Bat and Garou (They got Fighting Spirit), Pri-Pri (Got his own feat)

Electricity Manipulation, Freezing, Extreme Heat, Sound Manipulation & Pain Manipulation (Pri-Pri Prisoner was unaffected by an onslaught of attacks from several monster through sheer willpower)

Pri-Pri

Poison Manipulation (Pri-Pri Prisoner could resist being stabbed with venomous blades through sheer willpower)

Pri-Pri

Possibly Power Nullification (Body, Mind & Spirit; The Limiter limits the user's growth and the abilities they gain both physically and mentally/spiritually as Saitama's mind/spirit was capable of doing things it shouldn't be able to)

Saitama

• Biological Manipulation & Transformation via Body Control (Those with abnormally strong willpower who have also been Monsterized are able to turn themselves back into humans at will)

Wind and Flame (and the rest of the ninjas ig)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I have edited all pages, except Garou and Saitama, which are closed

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I have edited all pages, except Garou and Saitama, which are closed

Unlocked

Tell me when you are done

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Done

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Done

You didn't link this thread as justification for the change. Be careful with that in the future, as without evidence of approval, you could get a warning.

If there's nothing more to do here, I will be locking the thread and the profiles.