Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ 5

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Speaking on this for M, there is a description of a Shintai called "Black God", who sounds quite similar if not the same as the Black King we know in the series as M.

黒の神
遥かな異界における神王の右手を降ろしたとされる黒い神体。最強の神体のひとつであり、蕃神と呼ばれる。自らの領域を持たず、従者と共に世界を放浪する。
従者は黄金瞳(右目)の少女。

Black God
A Black Shintai said to have descended from the right hand of a divine king from a faraway land. It is one of the most powerful known as the Outer God. He has no realm of his own, but wanders the world with his servant.
His follower is a girl with a Golden Right Eye.

This may imply Shintai's aren't limited to just man-made steel and engine bodies. The fact Mary is referenced here as said "girl with Golden Right Eye" seems to point out this Black God = Black King/M. Also makes more fitting seeing as M's one of the top heavy god tiers of the verse we know so far.

As for the Sleep of Black King story, A being able to access M's Jet Black, his Shadow, his Darkness could lead more to that thought that A is connected to Nyar but I really need the main VN to help confirm this more. It says a lot too when the Black King/Nyar talks about how the Old Ones or the Meta=Critters in London couldn't obtain access to his Jet Black.

 

[RM97]

Interesting indeed.

Btw, @Qliphoth_Bacikal , where did you get this scan from?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

From the Amaterasu Translations website when the WN’s for Sharnoth and Inganock was still up.

Retranslating them from the official websites of the series are what I plan to do next although they’ll likely be incomplete since I’m not good at trying to translate stuff by pure sound alone...which says a lot when I watched several animes in the past but I just don’t focus that part.

 

[RM97]

Ah, I see. Though why re-translate them? If anything, I'd say it will be better translating the Webnovels for Sona Nyl and Gahkthun since they are non-existent. Plus, if you have any other materials from the series, they would be better for translations too.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Point.

Gahkthun doesn’t have any webnovels to my knowledge. But there is a bunch of short stories for it.

Sona Nyl I almost did except Mangagamer is doing Sona Nyl Refrain which also contains content for the Webnovel and this one addition novel story after it involving Irisia/Elysia which has quite an interesting atmosphere to it.

 

[RM97]

Very interesting. I'm still disappointed that Mangagamer isn't gonna do any other WAB series (At least for now).

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

人は、イリジアを覚えてはいないだろう。
星々の煌めきそのものである宮殿と庭園の美しさは瞳を潰し、心を喰らう。
誰も彼もがその美しさと高みの気配に耐えることはできない。
イリジア。白きものたちの宮殿。庭園。大型の恒星とも、ベテルギウスとも、ヒヤデスとも、さる銀河の中心とも言われるがおよそ人がその所在を明らかにすることなどできようもない。
サニドの煌めきを前に、言葉も、思考も意味を持たない。
ああ、サニド!
美しきは黄金の瞳のサニドよ!

People will not want to remember Elysia.
The beauty of the palace and its gardens, the very shine of the stars, crushes the eyes and devours the spirit.
No one can withstand the beauty of its supreme presence.
Elysia. The palace of the White Ones. The Gardens. It is said to be a great star, Betelgeuse, Hyades, or the center of the galaxy, but there is no way that one can reveal its location.
In the face of Sanido's shine, words and thoughts have no meaning.
Oh, Sanido!
The beautiful one, Sanido of the Golden Eyes!

---

イリジアの主。王にして女王。王女にして王子。
旧き神。灼き尽くす白熱。ザ・ホラー。猊下。
慈愛に充ちたサニドは、あらゆる知的生物、精神体、人々の守護者を称するという。
ただし、その慈愛が人類にとって有益だという保証はないのだ。極まりし美しさはおよそ脆く夢きものともにとってな毒にしかならない。恐るべきものよ、美しきものよ、サニドよ、埠めきの猊下の姿を想像しただけで私の精神はひび割れ砕け散る。B二六星雲を消し去ったものこそ貴様の慈愛に違いあるまい。
きわめて純度の高い黄金瞳を有するが故に、その身がA.Z.T.T. そのものもしくは〈対〉であると称するサニドよ、いつ、お前は、その徽慢こそが黒の王を遠ざけることに気付くのだろうか。
人よ、覚えていてはならない。
サニドは黒の主を愛したが、その愛は我ら人の思う愛なるものとは異質であって、ある種の物理宇宙の法則の一種であって、ヒュプノスの嘲笑を招くだけであることを。

The Lord of Elysia. The King and Queen. The princess and prince.
The Elder God. The Burning White Heat. The Horror. The Eminence.
Sanido's love is said to be the protector of all intelligent beings, spiritual bodies and people.
However, there is no guarantee that this love will be beneficial to humanity. Its extreme beauty is only a poison to fragile dreams. I'm sure that the one that has eliminated the B26 nebula is your love.
When will you, Sanido, who claims to be A.Z.T.T.'s〈Equal〉because of possessing pure Golden Eyes, realize that it is your pride that keeps the Black King away?
Remember, people, do not forget.
Sanido loved the Black King, but that love was different from what we humans think of as love, a kind of physical law of the universe that only invites the ridicule of Hypnos.

---

Getting real bored of waiting so here's some loredump about Elysia and Sanido. Especially Sanido, the so called "equal of AZTT" and the galaxy destroyer by pure kindness/love/compassion.

Now I have made a point before here about posting anything in regards to Sona Nyl, but I was probably thinking more along the lines of anything involving Lily and A cuz the main VN is what we need to know regarding their nature. Everything else after it gets even funkier with the two which I really withhold on.

But I posted this cuz I'm bored here.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This from the engine dictionary?

So Sonido protects all intelligent life, but her love isn't necessarily good? Can we have 1 steampunck God who isn't evil or a force of nature/gray in terms of morality lol.

M wants the Golden Eyes and Sanido has pure Golden Eyes, and Sanido "loves" M.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Same thing as usual like before, yeah.

Yeah. It's so bad to those like us that it can destroy a galaxy. No power or anything to it, just literal "kindness" can kill us lol.

Aye. But as the passage says, what their definition of "love" is like is different from what we know of it. And said love isn't recuperated with M/Black King as claiming to be an equal to the latter's queen is probably a turn off for him.

Sanido not only reigns Elysia/Irisia, it's also a place where she reigns...something.

---

数多の尊称を備えた宇宙深淵の支配者こそがイリジアなりしエリシアを統べる。暗黒邪悪の進入を許さない輝きの園、最果てそのもの、世界の果て、嘆きの壁の彼方、因果地平の終了点。暗黒邪悪など関係ない。万象一切の存在さえも許さない、非存在の領域に、存在にして非存在の女王が君臨する。

The ruler of the cosmic abyss, with its many titles of honor, is the ruler of Elysia, of Irisia. The Garden of Radiance, where no dark evil can enter, the farthest point itself, the end of the world, beyond the Wailing Wall, the end of the causality horizon. Darkness and evil are irrelevant. The queen of existence and nonexistence reigns in the realm of nonexistence, where even the existence of all things is not permitted.

---

Would be some kind of non-existent physiology or some such here for Sanido/Kthanid.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What is the causality horizon? Is that like a black hole or something, or just a fancy way of saying Sanido is beyond causality, thinking the latter.

Yea that is blatantly non-existent physiology, probably void manipulation too since she reigns over non-existence.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Maybe? Looking up Jisho and a Chinese dictionary, 因果 can mean something like "karma" and "cause and effect". Yet IDK what that even is. It does sound like something related to a black hole but we're probably thinking about the event horizon where things like even light can't escape from a black hole once inside.

Given the name meaning, she may very well just be beyond causality like M (and Edison) are as the Black that exists beyond space, time and causality.

Still waiting up for the updates of Mangagamer. This week will be 2 months since their last update last year on Nov. 21st.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The garden is the farthest point, the end of the world, nonexistence, where the existence of all things isn't permitted, i don't think causality exists there, going with the interpretation that Sanido probably is beyond causality.

What i wanna know is if she really is A.Z.T.T.'s equal, or she is just arrogant, and if she isn't where she falls on the scale.

At this point Sona-Nyl drops when it drops, i would think since it's been 2 months, Friday or Saturday we might get an update, but who knows.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

That works too.

Probably arrogance if this makes even the Black King push her away.

God I hope. Going one full month is enough. Two months is pushing it for me to be killed off by boredom lol.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

If Critters and Kikai share the same kind of nature, can it be assumed that GK can atomize Kikai or too far fetched?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Obviously, only difference between the 2 is Critters are more abstract, since in addition to being possibilities, they are also forms of death.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oof. Beings of phenomenon formed out of an equation, don't have physical forms and whose existence defies physics, exist only as possibilities and can even exist as information as well as being forms of death.

And GK's atomization works even on that.

DAMN~

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Celestial_Pegasus Can't believe Golden King is back to somewhat trending about that CRT ^^;

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Popular characters usually trend after a CRT.

Speaking of that, you still plan on making the CRT for Sharnoth?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Figures.

Yeah. Just forgot and got sidetracked.

I'm using this as reference as RM97 has some stuff that I saw M's page not having for ours that I can add for the Sharnoth CRT. Just have to gather up all the scans for them and then I should be good to go to making it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Illusions are basically the explanation for every supernatural thing in Steampunck lol.

Meta=Critter? Illusions

Nightengales Gods? Illusions

Grimm=Grimm? Illusion

M is a conceptual being? Illusion

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I mean even for the 20th century, they'll just stamp anything that's not "scientific" to be the works of illusions.

Even the illusions of the past, or the Old Ones as they may be called in Kadath, are such beings lol.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Don't remember if the other profiles that have the Green Stones got updated to be able to harm illusions either, it was shown in the Sharnoth Web novel that Green Stones can affect Old Ones who aren't real creatures, just illusions.

Ah, I forgot about this one. That thread went too long for me to ever remember lol ^^;

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Why do the Gakthun characters have physics manipulation? Thought it was agreed long ago not to scale Gahkthun's arts/cracking to Inganock's, cause it's not stated to control physics in Gahkthun, and it's done by an entirely different process ie it comes from GK, and only allows the members to open a rift in the universe, contrasted to Inganock where they are warping physics to achieve some effect like healing or heating up their hand.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

The Arts in Gahkthun.

On multiple occasions, we're told that Arts are an expression of the Cracking Effect if only limited to a single effect and which Tesla has described as being nothing more than a "mere party trick".

In Tesla's encounter with Walther, Neon felt something that was gathering in his Shoes, which for Tesla he easily guessed it was the Cracking Effect at work though one that is very limited as said.

When Rodin got his sculpture related Art by Rosenkreuz, the latter referred to an Art as a "sliver of the divine power. An expression of the Cracking Effect".

And here when Nightingale went to confront GK, she started to use her Art which is again referred to as the Cracking Effect, a sliver of its power from which the Arts seen and told in Gahkthun are derived from its "Formula".

Basically the way they use their Art is similar to the Astrea Theory in Inganock where the user can only use Cracking for a specific purpose, like with Gii and Kerkan. Only difference is that Arts can't be used outside of Gahkthun because of its relation to the Bell.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Makes sense.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What about Mathers though? His ability also uses Cracking Light, though unlike the Arts it doesn't come from GK, uses a different formula from a different Bell.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Probably? Never really thought about him at the time.

Tesla's ability has actually been thought up as an Art by Walther and I think Berta before, even Anne thought of it as an Art. Although that's obviously not true and Tesla probably can't bother to tell them he got it from an Illusion that just happens to incarnate an element of nature (lightning).

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Better than nothing heheheyeeeeuuuuaahhh~

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

finally smth. smh im dying of lack of anything MG

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well at least we got some kind of update.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Definitely. And I was right about their progress of how they publish the translations.

"While we can't dive into too much detail, the general order we typically go in when reporting status updates is: Translation -> Edit -> Image Editing and/or Programming -> Beta -> Finishing touches -> Release!" -One reply to a Twitter question.

They're now in the Image Editing process and what depending on what happens, the Beta should be next up the next time they update, then they'll put the final touches and Sona Nyl can finally be up in stores to buy.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Speaking of that, haven't checked how much Sona Nyl is gonna cost, Gahkthun was like $30 if i remember right.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I thought it was about 40 something when Gahkthun first came out.

Methinks Sona Nyl will be the same price for it.

 

[RM97]

M's page in vsb has Type 4 for Acausality when it's outright stated that Jet Black exists beyond all of Space, Time, and Causality aka Type 5.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You need a lot of evidence for type 5, i don't think he has it atm.

If just a statement of being beyond causality was enough, a lot of people would have it.

I mean you can use that, then couple it with the fact that he has always existed as the black, then the other multiple statements of time being meaningless to him, and maybe make an argument?

Either way, it's not me you have to convince, i just know that stuff gets heavily scrutinized.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Existing as the Jet Black that makes up part of the world and stuff like predating the universes creation and time being meaningless as well as being beyond it, space and causality...

Yeah unless there is more to M, this is all that’s been gathered about him afaik.

 

[RM97]

You need a lot of evidence for type 5, i don't think he has it atm.

If just a statement of being beyond causality was enough, a lot of people would have it.

I mean you can use that, then couple it with the fact that he has always existed as the black, then the other multiple statements of time being meaningless to him, and maybe make an argument?

Either way, it's not me you have to convince, i just know that stuff gets heavily scrutinized.

I'm pretty sure one of the requirements for Type 5 is that in addition to Transcending/being Beyond Causality, one should exist in such a way that no one can interact with them.

For M, his true form uses Avatars or the Darkness of the Universe to interact with beings in the universe as the latter are unable to interact with the true form. Then there's Jet Black predating the Multiverse and transcends all its aspects (like Time, Space, Causality, etc) to the point they are meaningless to him. So IMO, this should be sufficient enough unless the requirements are even higher.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well you can bring it up in Qliphoth's Sharnoth thread whenever he makes it.

Pretty much gonna observe what others think about that specifically, i mean it makes sense though.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

It should be up sometime today. I just have one last batch of scans to compile and then it'll finally be made.

And yeah, at least for his true form it makes some sense to refer to that than his manifestations. I think it keeps getting forgotten about the fact that part of why Moriarty, the "Professor" of the Society, gave him a body was so he can move around in the world among the humans and whatnot. And at least for that one, people can interact with him just fine.

Red told me he at least thinks M should have it but for his True Form/Body as the "Black King".

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

True, James did give his body so M could move in the world, other ppl interacting with him though is a weird way to put it, i mean didn't the green stones do jack to him?

As far as i see it, M's true form is just black, there is no way else to describe it, while the M moving around has the body of James, however that's basically it, he just has the form of a human, but he isn't human, he is indifferent to all life processes, still thinks time is a meaningless concept, doesn't have a physical body, exists wherever there is darkness etc.