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What a Beautiful Revisions (Inganock, Gahkthun)

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Sekien no Inganock

Tier Upgrade


Several of the Inganock profiles are rated at 8-C via scaling, in one way or another, to Stone Golem whose place as 8-C is for being taller than multi-story buildings as well as casually destroying said buildings and other structures just by merely moving its arms around.

However, recent findings have shown that Golem is far higher than we thought. In one of the novel’s mini-games that gives backstory and lore to certain people and other things in the setting, Stone Golem (or simply "Golem") is a Critter who possesses the power of heat. Said heat is repeatedly stated of being of "ultra-high temperatures", hot enough to melt, incinerate, evaporate anything its heat touches, ranging from humans, bullets and bombs, buildings and even "Heavy Engine Humans" such as the Upper Tier Soldier's.

As shown in one of the above links, a Brigade of these Upper Tier Soldiers, "Engine Humans" clad in steel armor who had over 90% of their body converted to steel cybernectic implants, were all turned to ash by Golem's sheer heat. A calc was made for the feat/statement with a result of 5.56 Kilotons. As mentioned, its sheer heat can incinerate and vaporize anything it touches, which should include buildings, with just the incineration of one alone is worth 1.7 Kilotons.

Hence, Stone Golem should be upgraded to at least Low 7-C+. As for those who are scaled to Stone Golem, here are the following:
  • Dr. Gii (w/ Porshion): Killed Stone Golem with one hit before its evolution. Its right hand of tearing flame is also of similar potency/heat if not higher given it could melt and cleave Stone Golem in half with one hit. Is far stronger than before in its evolved form.
  • Kerkan (w/ Xerxes): Stronger than pre-evolved Porshion, who Gii wasn’t sure he’d able to win in a fight against. As Thoth, it became stronger to the point of being able to contend with an evolved Porshion for some time.
  • Apondance Lemure Lemure: Should be comparable to pre-evolved Porshion.
  • Blood Tree (Main Body): Far superior to its duplicates, and is stated to be the one thing Kerkan could not kill in the city.
  • Petrovna: Combined her Kikai with Blood Tree and absorbed all of its duplicates across Inganock to gain “unimaginable power”, making her stronger than Xerxes and Porshion and forcing the latter to evolve in order to defeat her.
  • Dragon: A Critter who was stated to be the strongest of all Critters, making it superior to Stone Golem and Blood Tree.

Regeneration Upgrade for Porshion

Currently, Porshion’s Evolved Form has Regeneration at Mid-Godly for regenerating from Thoth’s Breath of Easy Death. Thoth’s ability is an improved version of its initial state’s ability, where it grants “complete denial of existence” by erasing human life without a trace. Said breath works even on Kikai including Porshion in its Evolved form, meaning it can erase Abstract Entities that don’t have physical form and only exist as possibilities.

Porshion was completely shattered and erased upon being hit directly before it can tank the breath, but it was still able to regenerate in short time thanks to the “thread” connecting it and Gii being left intact.

However, this form of regeneration may even be High-Godly. For those unaware, Kikai and Critters are beings formed out of a mathematical equation known as the Phenomenon Equation or Cracking Effect, beings who should not exist and whose existence defies physics. They have no physical form and exist only as possibilities of unborn lives (Kikai) or born without one (Critter). They can also even as pure information as demonstrated with Bandersnatch and Porshion.

(Read here for full information about Kikai and Critters)

As said, Porshion, a Cracking Being, a Kikai with no physical form that exists only as possibilities and can even exist as pure information on top of that, was able to regenerate from an attack that destroys humans as well as said entities above (Kikai and Critters)

Hence, Porshion should have its regeneration upgraded from Mid-Godly to High-Godly.



Ourai no Gahkthun

Tier Downgrade (Tesla, Golden King, Mathers)


Nikola Tesla, Golden King, and MacGregor Mathers should be downgraded from High 6-B to 6-C.

For a long time, the Golden King has a feat (or rather would be feat that could have very well happened) involving the atomization of an island but his tier was made based on guesswork as the atomization of an average-sized island would net a result around Large Country level. However, a calc has been made for him, and with it a more accurate and proper tier.

The calc's result downgrades the Golden King's base form tier to Island level. This is in turn downgrades his Ultharathotep's tier from Low 5-B to High 6-A.

Tesla and Mathers should also be downgraded for similar reasons, as their tiers are from fighting the Golden King.

Regeneration Upgrade for Tesla and Golden King

Tesla and the Golden King (Ultharathotep) should have their regeneration upgraded to High-Godly.

The reason being is that Tesla was capable of regenerating from the Golden King's attacks in the latter's Ultharathotep form. Said attacks are stated to "tear the very fabric of reality" and "rending all things asunder. Both the real and illusory, the physical and metaphysical." To explain the context of metaphysical and illusions, there exist beings known simply as Illusions or Old Ones, formless beings humanity dreamt up that once filled the world and were incarnations of nature which used to coexist with them in ancient times before civilization advanced. The attacks are also stronger than his gaze, which can atomize Nightingale's Art made out of light and shadow and can even atomize Critters.

Shown here, where Tesla is being hit repeatedly by the Golden King's attacks rather than from his gaze. In his armor, his second body essentially, he was being cracked, pierced, crushed, pulverized, cut apart, disintegrated even with his Knight of Thunder crumbling apart. Despite this, Tesla instantly restored his body and this was done in a state where he was at his most fragile and low on energy to spare in using his electric powers.

Ultharathotep should be of the same as their regeneration is said to be comparable to Tesla's. Golden King also has the same feat of doing this when Tesla's strongest attack shattered his form if not completely due to the attack "engulfing the Golden King in its searing light", implying that his whole body was destroyed entirely.

Removal of Reality Warp and Concept Resistance (Tesla)

Rather simple, but Tesla should have his resistance to reality warp and concept manip removed.

This is based off primarily on the nature of Golden King's hands but he never tanked them, only regenerated from them. While he did endure them for a little bit, he still had to regenerate from all of the damage he suffered.

Possible Law Manipulation for Wilhelm Reich

Wilhelm Reich should get possible Law Manipulation for his Art.

In full detail here, Reich’s Art, Dominate (Rule for another way to name it) allows him to gain numerous superhuman abilities when holding a sword or any sword-like object in his hand. However, these are but added effects to his main Art’s ability, which is to “dominate every corner of space, every inch of the opponent’s existence.”

To go further on how this works, Reich explains his Art as being purely made for combat. It is an Art that, befitting his mindset of a “king”, allows him to “rule” over the battlefield and to be invincible to his opponents. In other words, Reich’s “Rule” enables him to completely dominate the battlefield as an “invincible ruler”, being able to instantly defeat his foes with just normal strikes alone.
 
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As we have talked I agree doe would it be possible for GK to have regen neg cuz of how he eventually wore tesla down to the point he actually died?
 
Also agree.

@TISSG7Redgrave I think that's iffy, Tesla was already running low on radiance and pretty close to just not existing anymore, so i think it's probably more likely that he got so exhausted from the fight, he just didn't have the energy to regenerate anymore.
 
true but i mean the guy was still regenerating well enough just it started to halt even more. Even when he's really low he still can regen from all those slaps but yeah he was running out of time. I can only think of possible but eh
 
Maybe. On one hand, Tesla states himself of having run out of power thus not having the means to regenerate and reform his body back to full condition.

On the other hand, he could have also just weakened himself out but still have electricity in him enough to hold out a little longer but just not being able to attack or heal himself anymore.

Either way, IDK if it's enough if Tesla just didn't have anymore energy to even regenerate and reform his body and Knight back like before. Had he did and we then see the later text of GK's attack hitting Tesla beyond his ability to regenerate, I could see some weight into that.
 
We don't see the end of Tesla vs GK, we just see GK back again but this time in his Base and that Tesla was atomized.

So we don't really know how things went, you could assume Gk negates his regen cause Tesla died, but i still think him not having enough juice to regen is the more plausible explanation.
 
Iirc it was stated or implied that Tesla was already out of Juice even before his fight with Reich and during vs Ultrathotep, he was struggling heavily to go on due to lack of juice + lack of beliefs from everyone who knew him.
 
Basically, Tesla used the last of his power to damage Ultrathotep and revert him back to GK before getting faded away cuz of lack of Radiance.
 
Are the links to the Incineration calc and building melting calcs working for you all? It's not showing up for some reason
 
Hmm, that’s odd. Could have sworn they would work back when I posted this.

I’ll have to check the linking in a bit for that.
 
Okay, links are fixed now. I might have screwed them up somehow when I posted this but I can't remember ever doing that. But they are fixed now.
 
is there a particular reason I was pinged? I know nothing about the verse
 
I mean we need some staff input here to apply this, everyone who knows the verse is already here.

This is pretty much an obscure VN after all.
 
Well, most of this is good but we still have the ongoing debates about heat feats that me and DontTalkDT are going to elaborate at some point.

It is fine as an AP feat, but based on statements Ugarik said among other staff; extreme heat is something that in normal cases would not scale to striking strength or durability. Though it can justify Tier 7 levels of heat resilience/endurance. Exception can be if there's a linked Universal energy source that's used interchangeably between heat production and blunt force trauma. But I'm in a hurry and can't really explain the full details right away.

But the rest of the OP looks good from a glance and also trust Celestial Pegasus.
 
I knew heat feats were gonna be revised, but haven't seen it happen yet, guessing it's still in the discussion phase.

So it would only be like Low 7-C for Golem but just really good heat resistance for Gii for being unaffected by it?

Golem's entire body vaporizes anything close to it, basically it has a heat armor, guess that would still effectively have Low 7-C durability.
 
Oof well that’s too bad if that’s the case. At least it’s just one thing...I think.

From the sounds of it, that would be the case for Golem to have the upgrade only. Although it could maybe also be for durability too considering it literally covers its whole body?
 
Could we get a scaling via using Dragon maybe? It's stated to be the strongest Critter, meaning Dragon>Golem, it doesn't use any heat as far as i know, and Gii killed it.

That said i don't see any official page on heat feats or whatever, so at the moment, it's not the policy of the wiki yet, but i guess we wouldn't want to waste time upgrading the characters just to downgrade them later.
 
I would have still think Gii would scale seeing as he had Porshion literally stop Stone Golem’s hand with his own. And said hand, the whole body more like, is covered in its intense heat so you really can look at this as both a physical and heat resistance base feat.

Then there’s also said Dragon statement of being the strongest and Gii later killing it at some point as well.
 
In any case, everything else, except Stone Golem's feat seems to be accepted.

I do also think Gii, Kerkan etc would probably still scale regardless of the yet to happen heat revisions, but we should see what @DarkDragonMedeus thinks about that.
 
Well, a Tier 7 punch would logically be producing Tier 7 levels of heat, since scientifically every atom and molecule in an object would have to always be moving at least as fast as the body containing them. For example, if I threw a water balloon at Mach 10 speeds, every water molecule in the balloon would be cycling at least as fast accordingly thus heating up all that water automatically. But on the contrary, the world is fully of objects that can withstand tier 8 levels of thermal energy without melting or vaporizing but the same objects can get easily smashed or shattered by 9-B strikes. Other details that's often important is the difference between heat capacity; Joules per degree and kilogram and a specific melting point/boiling point. I will also note the most important is heat based calculations are measured using watts; joules per second being imported and/or extracted. With exception being timeframes less than a second; we use total energy yield.

Tier 7 AP with Tier 7 levels of heat resistance are both solid yes. And there's no "Heat feats" page or what not, but the durability page notes specifically "Force" the character can withstand as opposed to "Energy".

After looking at the example calc, I'm iffy about Drite's example. Burning something to ashes =/= vaporization quite yet. Vaporization is nothing is left but a pure body of gas format. We also don't normally scale AP based on a character being able to melt/vaporize/incinerate himself. But Bambu's incineration of a building example is good.
 
I mean vaporization would logically be above burning it to ash, so it could serve as a lowball i guess.

Stone Golem doesn't vaporize itself, it just has a heat armor where anything that comes close gets vaporize, this is why bullets and other weapons don't work on it.

Anyway as said above Dragon is stated to be the strongest Critter and it has no heat abilities, if that's the case, and Stone Golem heat gives tier 7 ap, Dragon's ap>Golem's ap.

Basically every Gii vs Critter fight is the same, Gii shows up, narration talks about the Critter attacking, Gii is said to be protected by Porshion so he doesn't die, Critter gets said to be impossible to be killed by humans, but Porshion is far more than human, Gii then one shots the Critter.
 
@Celestial_Pegasus Critter Dragon actually has a heat based ability like Stone Golem. At least whatever amount of text I found off Atwiki, that's its ability. The difference is in the way their abilities are described and initiated. Dragon's is by chewing down on its targets and having its extreme heat turn its target to ashes, while Stone Golem's whole body, down to its fingertips and breath even, evaporates anything.

Although I would imagine that would make the statement of being "strongest Critter" odd maybe? But then again it didn't really talk about things like the physical strength among Critters or abilities, just stated of being the strongest among all Critters.

Take that as you will cuz the easier way for me to interpret that is overall stronger than all of them.
 
Dragon should have heat manipulation then.

Going by that description, in turns of heat, clearly Golem would be superior since it's very being vaporizes everything opposed to Dragon who just turns things to ash after biting them.

Strongest couldn't be applying to its heat abilities then, and would have to mean it's ap i think.
 
It already has it.

And yeah there isn't any much beyond it for Dragon (fandisc information aside) whereas we know Stone Golem's heat is hot enough to not only incinerate things to ashes but outright evaporate them.

That's my line of thinking there, yeah.
 
Ah, just noticed it does have it.

So we wait again to Dragon's response.

Idk if you want to do all the edits at once or not, the only thing still in discussion is Inganock's ap, everything else is already accepted.
 
I'll wait up on Dragon again for this first before I get going to doing the appropriate edits. I'd much prefer to have everything done and then do all of them all at once.
 
Ok, so the tier 7 scaling is good then just instead it's gonna be based on Dragon.

What do we do about Golem's heat armor though? It's a defensive thing which makes it impossibly to harm it, causing everything that gets close gets vaporized. Would that still count as durability, since it's the same heat it's using to defend itself?

Looking at Drite's calc he does indeed assume turning into ash=vaporization, so yea the results seem inflated.

Think we should go by Bambu' version.
 
It can mean they have a Tier 7 barrier, and if the heat repels Tier 7 physical strikes, then maybe.

Edit, I also agree Bambu's calc is more reliable.
 
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I think the calc for Drite is on my bad here since I only told him regarding how Golem's heat does all that down to evaporating stuff. Although I do think its applicable in a sense, just not in the way we have it now and just go with turning them to ashes instead. Then again the author is the one who writes stuff like this so it gets a little weird out at times.

Nevertheless, using Bambu's calc is fine with me since we're now just using the lower end of Low 7-C for these guys instead.
 
Golem hasn't repel any tier 7 physical strikes, it showed up, destroyed some buildings, then got one shotted by Gii after it tried vaporizing him.

Gii one shot Dragon who is stronger than Golem so nothing proves the barrier repels tier 7 strikes, we just know it's the same thing which vaporizes stuff, it's very existence is basically a form of death like all other critter, in Golem case, it's death by incineration, so it's body is always coved by heat which vaporizes whatever gets close, including buildings.
 
Okay, in that context, I personally don't think it would scale to durability against physical strikes. And it also looks like Golem's the only one who's heat resistance reaches that level.
 
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