Sorcerer King x Blessed Knight again but fair

[Hanzozeroo]

How level Resistance work

Ainz’s magic resistance completely negated the effects of low- to mid-tier
spells, regardless of how powerful their casters were. In contrast, Shalltear’s magic resistance was affected by her opponent’s stats and levels. Even a tenthtier spell by a weak magic caster would not be able to breach her resistance, but against a powerful magic caster — like Ainz — first-tier spells were the limit.

 

[noninho]

So yeah GH can penetrate a resistance

fortunatelly he doesn't even have that resistance

 

[noninho]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, that's true, but it doesn't leave openings enough for Ainz to instantly die.

Thats pure assumption on your part

? no Death Manip Resistance listed, mate.

Its currently being added even though it should have been a long time ago. Juli's Al Clarista is a confirmed instant death magic and Reinhard should be resistant to that.

how so? Ainz isn't a random anime villain that tries walking away after defeating the guy. Mainly cuz it won't take too long for ainz to feel him alive once again, and since they're equal speed and the surprise element is busted, well, he may have died from just Grasp Heart, but seeing him reviving again (and with the divine energy that may flow, visually or not) he'll stop time and try harder, and i really think TGOALID and true death would be in this case, but probably Soul-eaters too, which is the 100% wincon for him, and for sure is in the 3rd try if the method used in the 2nd isn't enough... and as the weakness part says: "Reinhard can only gain whichever Divine Protection he feels he needs in a specific moment and wishes for, whether it exists or not, he cannot simply manifest any ability he desires", so for you to say "he'll feel that he was victim of TS and will get layered resistance for that" would be very biased...which makes 3rd try more than possible and then Reinhard just dies.

Reinhard doesn't "visibly" revive, he just gets a screen after death that says "continue?". And boom he is back, also no divine aura reviving him either. Ainz doesnt spam TGOALID every time his opponent revives and again i have already explained how he used TD under a very specific set of conditions. Grasp heart has only one layer of resistance and needs to be manually enhanced which Ainz shouldn't have the speed to do in battle. I didnt say he will get layered time stop if he requirss it though? I will deal with the soul eaters in the next one.

you're saying that he'll revive and then surprise-one-shot ainz, and then you say right afterwards "Which it isn't meaning Reinhard can once again come back and kill him subtly."...lol

I said that Ainz will have a psychological bias in his mind that resurrections are limited to 2 since thats all he has encountered atleast in the LN. However Reinhard has infinite number of revives meaning he can surprise him even if its a little and get a win out of that. Oh and i forgot to mention this earlier but numerous characters in the series can fight off against people of much higher speeds, power, durability and abilities that should be impossible to detect and all of them are so below Reinhard that none of them can even begin to comprehend his level of skill. So Reinhard should have a clear advantage in movement if its equal speed

well, if he revives again, and Ainz knows that he's stronger than his summonings, then he'll only try doing what for sure kills him with more potency then just wrecking his heart, which, as i pointed above, if it's not on the 2nd try is in the 3rd try.

Thing is, Ainz isnt aware of Reinhards weaknesses to soul eaters. Its more likely for him to assume that Reinhard is way stronger and anything weak wont work so he will probably send out his highest tier summons. Unless you want to argue on why Ainz who is known as the local paranoid would send out lv 30 summons against a dude who is physically capable of being a 105-110 Warrior.

why would he do that if he just one-shotted the guy and he just came back (probably with a catchprase lol) as nothing happened? he just felt the guy getting killed and then having life once again, why would he summon things weaker than him to try doing more than that??

Yep, thats the point i am trying to make. Soul eaters are weak, way too weak to deal eith a threat like Reinhard. Whixh is why he would probably use his more stronger summons

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i don't think so Ainz have Instan death Enchanment

And then there were the abilities from his class levels — [Instant Death Magic
Enhancement], [Rite of Darkness], [Undead Aura], [Undead Creation], [Undead Control], [Undead Strengthening], and so on. Vol 1

She was not hurt. In fact, she did not feel anything at all. This was not because she was actively defending against that spell, but
because that spell could not even get through Albedo’s passive magic resistance. It was likely that this was one of her master’s specialties, necromancy,
specifically an instant-death spell. Those types of spells were not only affected by ability scores, passive skills,
special skills, and equipment abilities, but were also affected by resistances gained through levels, penalties, and so on. If they were cast on an opponent of similar level, it would be hard for those spells to have any effects at all if they were not enhanced through any means. Vol 14

So yeah GH can penetrate a resistance

Ainz needs time to apply his enchantments
Equal speed
Ainz does not have the time to apply GH

 

[Hanzozeroo]

How level Resistance work

Ainz’s magic resistance completely negated the effects of low- to mid-tier
spells, regardless of how powerful their casters were. In contrast, Shalltear’s magic resistance was affected by her opponent’s stats and levels. Even a tenthtier spell by a weak magic caster would not be able to breach her resistance, but against a powerful magic caster — like Ainz — first-tier spells were the limit.

And Ainz more likely start with silent magic "Death" than GH now

 

[Hanzozeroo]

Thats pure assumption on your part

Nope Ainz is very carefull even if reinhard move his finger he Will death again. Especially with enemies he doesn't know yet, and Ainz will definitely use time stop and he will use it very often because reinhard has no resistance to his time stop.

Its currently being added even though it should have been a long time ago. Juli's Al Clarista is a confirmed instant death magic and Reinhard should be resistant to that.

Ainz can pierce a layer resistance

Reinhard doesn't "visibly" revive, he just gets a screen after death that says "continue?". And boom he is back, also no divine aura reviving him either. Ainz doesnt spam TGOALID every time his opponent revives and again i have already explained how he used TD under a very specific set of conditions. Grasp heart has only one layer of resistance and needs to be manually enhanced which Ainz shouldn't have the speed to do in battle. I didnt say he will get layered time stop if he requirss it though? I will deal with the soul eaters in the next one.

Ainz instantly use time stop and play with him again and again until he know Reinhard weakness

I said that Ainz will have a psychological bias in his mind that resurrections are limited to 2 since thats all he has encountered atleast in the LN. However Reinhard has infinite number of revives meaning he can surprise him even if its a little and get a win out of that. Oh and i forgot to mention this earlier but numerous characters in the series can fight off against people of much higher speeds, power, durability and abilities that should be impossible to detect and all of them are so below Reinhard that none of them can even begin to comprehend his level of skill. So Reinhard should have a clear advantage in movement if its equal speed

Nope Ainz never fight with unknown enemy with Ressurection haxes,so he Will more very Be careful
Idk what you mean buat speed equal mean equal

Thing is, Ainz isnt aware of Reinhards weaknesses to soul eaters. Its more likely for him to assume that Reinhard is way stronger and anything weak wont work so he will probably send out his highest tier summons. Unless you want to argue on why Ainz who is known as the local paranoid would send out lv 30 summons against a dude who is physically capable of being a 105-110 Warrior.

Yep, thats the point i am trying to make. Soul eaters are weak, way too weak to deal eith a threat like Reinhard. Whixh is why he would probably use his more stronger summons

True, but reinhard won't have chance to show his physical Strength

 

[noninho]

Thats pure assumption on your part

Pretty sure I derailed about that later in the argument

Its currently being added even though it should have been a long time ago. Juli's Al Clarista is a confirmed instant death magic and Reinhard should be resistant to that.

Well, you've said they had just added everything to make this fight fair, and coming here with just "should" is not enough.

Reinhard doesn't "visibly" revive, he just gets a screen after death that says "continue?". And boom he is back, also no divine aura reviving him either.

Either way, Reinhard will revive and Ainz will know immediately. I can really see this in the anime, a random well-dressed guy comes fast AF for Ainz and drops dead from Grasp Heart, Suzuki Satoru goes on a intern monologue "what the **** was that? There's an enemy empire? No this guy have different clothes...who the actual **** is this guy???"
Then while ainz is pretty alert this guy is just alive again, he goes "oh shit! Time Stop" and all the 2nd try I talked about simply happens

Ainz doesnt spam TGOALID every time his opponent revives and again i have already explained how he used TD under a very specific set of conditions.

Which for sure include having to kill again a random guy with an impressive Aura who came at him at an incredible speed and simply revived again with no signals of Ressurection or True Ressurection spells being used. Those are some pretty good reasons to go "oh shit" and try harder to kill him definitely (imo includes the soul eaters to make sure he cannot get Ressurection to work for good)

Grasp heart has only one layer of resistance and needs to be manually enhanced which Ainz shouldn't have the speed to do in battle.

Pretty sure it's enough when until now, you haven't being able to prove that he has a single layer of that resistance (and even if he has, the other pro-ainz mate posted right above why he penetrates that without Penetrate Magic usage)

I didnt say he will get layered time stop if he requirss it though?

Got his weakness part of the profile just for that. Yes he requires that, but he can only get what he feels he needs, and tell me how would he know he needs layered TS resistance? If it's a TS he couldn't resist he doesn't know time has been stopped, for him to try and get this blessing.

I said that Ainz will have a psychological bias in his mind that resurrections are limited to 2 since thats all he has encountered atleast in the LN. However Reinhard has infinite number of revives meaning he can surprise him even if its a little and get a win out of that.

Absolutely not. If he sees a guy get up from a type of instant killing with no signs of the usual magic that do that (again, Ressurection and True Resurrection), and in rapid succession, he'd know this guy doesn't exactly follow the rules he know and would be waiting for him to get up again. I'm 3000% against any sign of surprise element on this fight.

much higher speeds

How much bigger?

So Reinhard should have a clear advantage in movement if its equal speed

It's why I've put the distance in 3km, so it gets truly equalized.

Thing is, Ainz isnt aware of Reinhards weaknesses to soul eaters. Its more likely for him to assume that Reinhard is way stronger and anything weak wont work so he will probably send out his highest tier summons. Unless you want to argue on why Ainz who is known as the local paranoid would send out lv 30 summons against a dude who is physically capable of being a 105-110 Warrior.

Ainz is a strategist. Unless a summon can pulverize the TSd guy, Yes he will summon soul eaters because of its skill of...eating souls.
Well, sounds like something that would really be worthy to try against, again, a guy get up from a type of instant killing with no signs of the usual magic that do that (again, Ressurection and True Resurrection), via "if now he's not an undead, but it's alive again, he has a soul. If he doesn't have a soul anymore, results should be different and he won't have this strange Ressurection again" (that's what I think, and I'm pretty sure he's smarter than me) unless there's a summon who can turn Reinhard into dust (like, user of "Absolute Pulverize" spell, idk, creating it rn) or worse.

Yep, thats the point i am trying to make. Soul eaters are weak, way too weak to deal eith a threat like Reinhard. Whixh is why he would probably use his more stronger summons

Read above, the point is finding a finisher move/skill and complements to that so he stays dead for good. He'd chain those time stops and gg him with TGoALiD, TD, Despair Aura V/Iä Shub-Niggurath AND THEN the soul eaters to help

 

[noninho]

Ainz instantly use time stop and play with him again and again until he know Reinhard weakness

He won't even need to do this more than at max 2 times!

Idk what you mean buat speed equal mean equal

He meant RZ characters usually deal with faster enemies (may he please bring evidence on how faster and how many times Reinhard's done it) so being = speed would be good for Reinhard

True, but reinhard won't have chance to show his physical Strength

OH YEAH, YOU REMEMBERED ME
Ainz has higher LS so he can maybe take Reid from Reinhard with TK
And yeah, we won't

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

And Ainz more likely start with silent magic "Death" than GH now

uhh no? why would he do that, its clearly stated his favorite is grasp heart which unless his opponent is likely to be immune to. such as a golem or an undead which have unconventional immunity to death haxes.

Nope Ainz is very carefull even if reinhard move his finger he Will death again. Especially with enemies he doesn't know yet, and Ainz will definitely use time stop and he will use it very often because reinhard has no resistance to his time stop.

first of all, GH will fail without enhancement which Ainz isnt likely to instantly do at the beginning of combat unless he is given prep time. which he isnt in this case, that single instance will give Reinhard enough opportunity to nuke Ainz

Ainz can pierce a layer resistance

yeah but he isnt gonna use anything that can pierce layer resistance on the first try

Ainz instantly use time stop and play with him again and again until he know Reinhard weakness

Ainz probably does gain some kind of information but i doubt it would directly be his weakness

Nope Ainz never fight with unknown enemy with Ressurection haxes,so he Will more very Be careful

he does though? Shaltear has 2 lives, which is why he pulled out TGOALID

Idk what you mean buat speed equal mean equal

skill increases your perception speed in everything thus giving you more time to do everything faster even if speed is equalized since its essentially a 6th sense

True, but reinhard won't have chance to show his physical Strength

Ainz sama can probably figure that out actually considering he knew exactly how strong the elf king was almost instantly. it did be his weakness which would be harder to pin-point

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Well, you've said they had just added everything to make this fight fair, and coming here with just "should" is not enough.

the crt has been confirmed, the only part left is adding it now, I did give it a couple of days considering how slowly they add onto things

Either way, Reinhard will revive and Ainz will know immediately. I can really see this in the anime, a random well-dressed guy comes fast AF for Ainz and drops dead from Grasp Heart, Suzuki Satoru goes on a intern monologue "what the **** was that? There's an enemy empire? No this guy have different clothes...who the actual **** is this guy???"

this is actually a pretty funny scenario, except its speed equalized so it wouldnt exactly be fast af and more like "dude's living life at full speed!"
this is just an off hand thing that i thought of, but what if it hadnt been stated previously that Ainz wants to kill Reinhard too. like Reinhard is just dashing through at full speed for whatever reason and comes across Ainz on his way, would Ainz still death hax him or try to start a conversation?

Then while ainz is pretty alert this guy is just alive again, he goes "oh shit! Time Stop" and all the 2nd try I talked about simply happens

Explained why it wouldnt go as perfectly as you think it would

Which for sure include having to kill again a random guy with an impressive Aura who came at him at an incredible speed and simply revived again with no signals of Ressurection or True Ressurection spells being used. Those are some pretty good reasons to go "oh shit" and try harder to kill him definitely (imo includes the soul eaters to make sure he cannot get Ressurection to work for good)

I am pretty sure Ainz can't detect what spells has been utilized via any abilities, he simply takes a guess. Its highly likely that he will assume previously set up resurrection spell or an item.
wait, Reinhard would likely nuke him from a distance, why in the world would he try to approach Ainz?

Pretty sure it's enough when until now, you haven't being able to prove that he has a single layer of that resistance (and even if he has, the other pro-ainz mate posted right above why he penetrates that without Penetrate Magic usage)

I did explain Al Clarista though? anyways, the guy above was using a spell that Ainz has never ever started with and just made it up on the fly.

Got his weakness part of the profile just for that. Yes he requires that, but he can only get what he feels he needs, and tell me how would he know he needs layered TS resistance? If it's a TS he couldn't resist he doesn't know time has been stopped, for him to try and get this blessing.

Nobody ever mentioned Reinhard gaining blessings, no idea where you got that idea from but i havent been arguing for it

Absolutely not. If he sees a guy get up from a type of instant killing with no signs of the usual magic that do that (again, Ressurection and True Resurrection), and in rapid succession, he'd know this guy doesn't exactly follow the rules he know and would be waiting for him to get up again. I'm 3000% against any sign of surprise element on this fight.

I am pretty confident that Reinhard will simply nuke him from a distance

How much bigger?

some examples:

"Garfiel vs Kurgan, adds more skill feats. So the battle between them was such that there couldn't be any delay between thinking about attacking, and attacking, everything had to be instantaneous.

Any delay or mistake gets immediately exploited by both of them. Wilhelm and Theresia would also definitely scale to this i think.

Like Wilhelm, Garfiel also can slow down his perception of time, and basically block out all other things from his consciousness except his opponent.

So in all once you hit a certain level you predict your opponents attacks, instantaneously attack and defend, and slow down your perception of time to give yourself more time to decide what you're gonna do next and dodge stuff."

"Starts with Old Wil being able to predict future attacks via gaze, body movement, hostility.

Resurrected Theresia has equal skill to him, both being said to be masters, beyond the limits of humans. Theresia was about to kill Wil, and he knew exactly how he would die, he predicted the attack path of her sword, then basically breaks his limits, slowing down his perception, and dodges her attack.

Young Wil>Old Wil, and as seen from the anime when Wil found out she is the sword saint, she dodges his attacks, and catches his sword. A sword saint can read the trajectories of their opponents attacks, and knows everything about optimal striking force and angle. When facing anyone, they see lines which if they follow, will unquestionable kill their opponent. So yea Theresia precog>Wil's.

Wil then trains, comes back, and gets so skilled, Theresia's precog lines are broken, she can't kill him, and then he defeats her. That Wil is vastly inferior to Reinhard, who has a 6th sense that lets him see all attacks in advance."
Reinhard's godly instincts basically tell him exactly what he needs to do in order to win, he has literal optimal play 100% of the time. compare this to Ainz who will be confused at the beginning of the match and you can see why its more likely for Reinhard to win.

It's why I've put the distance in 3km, so it gets truly equalized.

Reinhard has tens of kilometres of range

Ainz is a strategist. Unless a summon can pulverize the TSd guy, Yes he will summon soul eaters because of its skill of...eating souls.
Well, sounds like something that would really be worthy to try against, again, a guy get up from a type of instant killing with no signs of the usual magic that do that (again, Ressurection and True Resurrection), via "if now he's not an undead, but it's alive again, he has a soul. If he doesn't have a soul anymore, results should be different and he won't have this strange Ressurection again" (that's what I think, and I'm pretty sure he's smarter than me) unless there's a summon who can turn Reinhard into dust (like, user of "Absolute Pulverize" spell, idk, creating it rn) or worse.

or you know he could summon a higher tier one to buy time engaging in combat with Reinhard who he believes is a physical guy due to his appearance, which then leads to him getting nuked by a single sword strike

Read above, the point is finding a finisher move/skill and complements to that so he stays dead for good. He'd chain those time stops and gg him with TGoALiD, TD, Despair Aura V/Iä Shub-Niggurath AND THEN the soul eaters to help

Its more likely for Ainz to use a higher tier summon against a physical fighter as seen with the PDL fight

 

[Hanzozeroo]

uhh no? why would he do that, its clearly stated his favorite is grasp heart which unless his opponent is likely to be immune to. such as a golem or an undead which have unconventional immunity to death haxes.

Ainz uses GH throughout the light novel 4 times. And Slient magic Death 6 or 7 times. He start with "Death" more than GH, he never show GH again in new volume of LN
GH is his favorite but he likes to use Slient magic.

first of all, GH will fail without enhancement which Ainz isnt likely to instantly do at the beginning of combat unless he is given prep time. which he isnt in this case, that single instance will give Reinhard enough opportunity to nuke Ainz

GH is high tier instan death sama as True Death(tier 9) and "Death"(tier 8) below it,

yeah but he isnt gonna use anything that can pierce layer resistance on the first try

His instan death magic is pierce low - mid tier resistance based on Level witch Rein does't have

he does though? Shaltear has 2 lives, which is why he pulled out TGOALID

He knows everything about shalltear, even fighting her without using his main gear, Ainz never face unknown enemy who can rivive
He used it because of Einherjar.

skill increases your perception speed in everything thus giving you more time to do everything faster even if speed is equalized since its essentially a 6th sense

Ah, he move his finger and Ainz Will instantly uses Time stop again.

Ainz sama can probably figure that out actually considering he knew exactly how strong the elf king was almost instantly. it did be his weakness which would be harder to pin-point

With "Life Essense", if he died why need to uses it and he have all time to find Reinhard weakness



I apologize if my English confused you, my first language is not English and I'm new to this forum.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He won't even need to do this more than at max 2 times!

X doubt, dont see how he will figure out his weakness just from him time stopping twice

He meant RZ characters usually deal with faster enemies (may he please bring evidence on how faster and how many times Reinhard's done it) so being = speed would be good for Reinhard

already did

OH YEAH, YOU REMEMBERED ME
Ainz has higher LS so he can maybe take Reid from Reinhard with TK
And yeah, we won't

Reinhard's updated LS is Type G, so no Ainz cant just pull a swiper on him

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ainz uses GH throughout the light novel 4 times. And Slient magic Death 6 or 7 times. He start with "Death" more than GH, he never show GH again in new volume of LN
GH is his favorite but he likes to use Slient magic.

its been stated multiple times that GH is Ainz's favorite death hax and thats the first death hax he has used on entering the verse. Also i dont recall him spamming death multiple times in the new volumes? can you send me the scans

GH is high tier instan death sama as True Death(tier 9) and "Death"(tier 8) below it,

His instan death magic is pierce low - mid tier resistance based on Level witch Rein does't have

due to verse equalization Reinhard would be level 105+
anyways GH can death hax people of lower levels which doesn't necessarily show them having any resistance to death hax meaning Reinhards layer 1 protection should be enough, in fact GH hasnt killed anybody with resistance yet

He knows everything about shalltear, even fighting her without using his main gear, Ainz never face unknown enemy who can rivive
He used it because of Einherjar.

so he is a bit more careful? i dont really think that changes much of anything though and the best i can imagine him doing is expecting Reinhard to only have a single revive afterward whcih would still leave him slightly surprised

Ah, he move his finger and Ainz Will instantly uses Time stop again.

Reinhard looks like a warrior, its much more likely that Ainz will go for a hide behind summon tactic to see how powerful Reinhard is.
you have yet to counter this point, also the fact that

"Ainz is also largely reactionary, using whatever spells and tactics fit the situation and what he wants to accomplish"
he will likely try to see what Reinhard does mid battle instead of time stopping him if he even tries to move. thats something you want him to do, not something he will do in character

With "Life Essense", if he died why need to uses it and he have all time to find Reinhard weakness

i am not sure what you mean but Life essence is basically the health of a character, he needs to either cast it beforehand or have it ready to be activated and even if he does all he will see is Reinhard with 0 hp and then it reaching back to full when he revives. Reinhard isnt really gonna be taking any damage from AInz though

I apologize if my English confused you, my first language is not English and I'm new to this forum.

understandable, my first language isn't English either

 

[Hanzozeroo]

its been stated multiple times that GH is Ainz's favorite death hax and thats the first death hax he has used on entering the verse. Also i dont recall him spamming death multiple times in the new volumes? can you send me the scans

Ainz
immediately killed her with [Death] without hesitation. Volume 16

he would have cast instant death magic on him. However, it didn’t trigger, volume 16

Ainz interrupted their conversation and cast an eighth-tier spell, [Silent
Magic – Death].
The ape-like demi-human’s smile was frozen on his face as he slowly
collapsed.
“…What? What did you―”
“―I told you to shut up, didn’t I?” Ainz once again cast a [Silent Magic – Death] spell. The four-legged demi-human collapsed in the same way as just now.
“Eh? Ehhh? What happened? What’s going on?” The female demi-human who remained still did not understand what was
going on, but it would seem she had already recognized who had done it.
“Was, was it you? You killed those two in an instant…?”
Terror was deeply etched on her face. Her body was shaking hard.
“Yes, yes,” Ainz carelessly cast a [Silent Magic – Death] on the female demihuman as well. “―Hmmm?” Volume 13 even he spaming it

I never see Ainz cast GH again to unknown oppoment after Vol 11

due to verse equalization Reinhard would be level 105+
anyways GH can death hax people of lower levels which doesn't necessarily show them having any resistance to death hax meaning Reinhards layer 1 protection should be enough, in fact GH hasnt killed anybody with resistance yet

I think that is Resistance Negotiation and rein does't have resistance to it

so he is a bit more careful? i dont really think that changes much of anything though and the best i can imagine him doing is expecting Reinhard to only have a single revive afterward whcih would still leave him slightly surprised

Ainz is paranoid guy, and never face unknown enemy with rivive, even he Will overthingking with small thing.

Reinhard looks like a warrior, its much more likely that Ainz will go for a hide behind summon tactic to see how powerful Reinhard is.
you have yet to counter this point, also the fact that

Sure, Ainz Will spaming Time stop/Temoral statis and instan death magic. Ainz is very often saying Instan death and Time stop countermeasures is very important.

 

[Hanzozeroo]

"Ainz is also largely reactionary, using whatever spells and tactics fit the situation and what he wants to accomplish"
he will likely try to see what Reinhard does mid battle instead of time stopping him if he even tries to move. thats something you want him to do, not something he will do in character

Even in now volume he saying time stop countermeasures is important, he Will spaming it if his oppoment does't have resistance, he doing it to Zy'tl Q'ae. Ainz is very paranoid guy.
He does't have Reason to not abuse it.

i am not sure what you mean but Life essence is basically the health of a character, he needs to either cast it beforehand or have it ready to be activated and even if he does all he will see is Reinhard with 0 hp and then it reaching back to full when he revives. Reinhard isnt really gonna be taking any damage from AInz though

True

 

[Dragonite007]

due to verse equalization Reinhard would be level 105+
anyways GH can death hax people of lower levels which doesn't necessarily show them having any resistance to death hax meaning Reinhards layer 1 protection should be enough, in fact GH hasnt killed anybody with resistance yet

That is not how this work, verse equalization just equalizes similar properties of the verses.

Reinhard will not have any level, and his resistance is not saving him from a layered death hax

 

[Antarctic_Icecream]

He doesnt use TD as standard.

Not sure what you mean here

You dont seem to understand Reinhards powers corrently. Reinhard doesnt use clairvoyance, he just has that via Ram having it. His godly instincts alone are better than it. He also has a ton of automatic defense resistances, dodging skills and immunities that arent directly nulled by Ainz. Such as but is not limited to Auto dodge, Projectile protection, magic resistance of 80%, and his godly intuiton.
Oh and also Ainz needs to apply his clairvoyance negation which he usually doesn't unless he is doing something illegal

This is incorrect, Ainz always has his clairvoyance negation on
The only times he ever turned it off was when he was using Momon as bait and for the Shalltear fight
It’s passive

 

[Antarctic_Icecream]

That is not how this work, verse equalization just equalizes similar properties of the verses.

Reinhard will not have any level, and his resistance is not saving him from a layered death hax

Yeah, that’s true
Ainz’s high-tier physical immunity requires the attack to be leveled and greatly enchanted to damage him via WOG
Ainz even used a merc monster with similar resistances and threw it from orbit to earth and it took no damage
So WOG states you need level to damage him
Though honestly even without this ability Ainz wins pretty handily

 

[Antarctic_Icecream]

To expand on it, Ainz’s guild weapon gives another layer to all of his abilities
Just give him his guild weapon and he will troll Rein with despair aura
Even without it he’d keep him pinned with time-stop death spam
It takes Rein at least a few seconds for his divine protection of the phoenix to kick in
The only time he ever used it happened after Subaru screamed in terror at his death and Regulus gave some smug comment or a few
Ainz normally doesn’t fight anyone he doesn’t know anything about
His plan against fodder knights in volume 1 when he had no information was to run away if even one thing didn’t go as expected
He only later became less paranoid when he studied the world and realized everyone operated under YGG logic
This flies out the window if he’s suddenly thrown in Minecraft facing an unknown opponent
He will spy on Rein, learn everything about him, then PK because this is a vsbattle
If they even speak then Rein will fall victim to Ainz’s social influence
Which is in-character for both of them
I’d go as far as to say that Ainz even without speed equalized can beat Rein
Rein holds back and scales his level against everyone he fights for minutes
Be it Puck, Elsa, Sirius, Cecilus
It’s consistent
It also doesn’t matter if Rein attacks at the same time he thinks in a speed equalized matter
Ainz thinks “time stop” and any initiative he has ends
Distance is still a factor and Ainz can still react to it speed equalized
If speed is unequalized he has other ways to win
Idek why this debate still goes on
Ainz is a bad opponent for Rein

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

To expand on it, Ainz’s guild weapon gives another layer to all of his abilities
Just give him his guild weapon and he will troll Rein with despair aura

Optional equipment + would be a stomp

His plan against fodder knights in volume 1 when he had no information was to run away if even one thing didn’t go as expected
He only later became less paranoid when he studied the world and realized everyone operated under YGG logic
This flies out the window if he’s suddenly thrown in Minecraft facing an unknown opponent
He will spy on Rein, learn everything about him, then PK because this is a vsbattle

self bfr becuz it would take months before he will start taking action as seen in character.

If they even speak then Rein will fall victim to Ainz’s social influence
Which is in-character for both of them

Ironically it isnt if he enters SBA

I’d go as far as to say that Ainz even without speed equalized can beat Rein
Rein holds back and scales his level against everyone he fights for minutes
Be it Puck, Elsa, Sirius, Cecilus
It’s consistent

all of those are before SBA is applied
1. he was trying to talk it out with Puck, and after deciding he wouldn't change his mind killed him with nuke
2. he also tried to kill Elsa, which he did but she revived herself with her curse
3. he also tried talking to her without killing her first but then he entered SBA and slashed her in half
4. he never fought Cecilus in a battle to the death
to add onto this, he killed his grandmother instantly on seeing her becuz he realized she was an undead. he has no sympathy or holding back after entering entering his kill mode.

It also doesn’t matter if Rein attacks at the same time he thinks in a speed equalized matter
Ainz thinks “time stop” and any initiative he has ends
Distance is still a factor and Ainz can still react to it speed equalized

it did be a matter nuke, unless Ainz decides to teleport he would be in a bad spot

If speed is unequalized he has other ways to win
Idek why this debate still goes on
Ainz is a bad opponent for Rein

agreed, this matchup is as bad as they come

 

[noninho]

this is just an off hand thing that i thought of, but what if it hadnt been stated previously that Ainz wants to kill Reinhard too. like Reinhard is just dashing through at full speed for whatever reason and comes across Ainz on his way, would Ainz still death hax him or try to start a conversation?

Ainz isn't dumb, if a guy comes dashing at him he won't think it's a talkable situation.

this is actually a pretty funny scenario, except its speed equalized so it wouldnt exactly be fast af and more like "dude's living life at full speed!"

IMO it's what I'd start calling "fast af"

Explained why it wouldnt go as perfectly as you think it would

Explained later why things would go perfectly even if we have to put some variations on the account.

I am pretty sure Ainz can't detect what spells has been utilized via any abilities, he simply takes a guess. Its highly likely that he will assume previously set up resurrection spell or an item.

He uses those spells, he knows how they work and for sure not like just happened before his eyes. More so if we have to argue that ainz would need 3rd try, when ressurection just happened on a completely strange way
...twice.

I did explain Al Clarista though? anyways, the guy above was using a spell that Ainz has never ever started with and just made it up on the fly.

No; oh shit. Anyway, no layer so far so the argument stands

Nobody ever mentioned Reinhard gaining blessings, no idea where you got that idea from but i havent been arguing for it

Ain't that the whole thing of the character, having a fuckton of blessings and if it's needed he gets a new non-existing one?
Anyway, remember this weakness part, it's relevant af

I am pretty confident that Reinhard will simply nuke him from a distance

I am pretty confident that nah

some examples:

Mmkay

1

They're fast and Reinhard is faster, and ainz got equalized to that (weren't they equalized on this example, since they were doing the exact same thing on the same speed, at least on this part of the battle?)

2

"I think" coming from who?

3

That's a Garfiel ability, can't be utilized here since if applied against Reinhard or anyone...would mean Garfiel is really concentrated on an impressive level. Nothing to do with what you proposed of speed.

Sorry for the delayed answer, I have almost no time to answer here all the sudden

 

[noninho]

agreed, this matchup is as bad as they come

Mate, I disagree from you both and think this is a cool discussion, but please tell me if you concede or anything before I take at least 1h 30min to answer everything

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ainz isn't dumb, if a guy comes dashing at him he won't think it's a talkable situation.

Which Reinhard is unlikely to do since he goes for the instant way to kill as seen with SBA against puck and theresia

Explained later why things would go perfectly even if we have to put some variations on the account.

Explained later why Reinhard isn't gonna approach Ainz to begin with

He uses those spells, he knows how they work and for sure not like just happened before his eyes. More so if we have to argue that ainz would need 3rd try, when ressurection just happened on a completely strange way
...twice.

Btw Reinhard has instinctive reaction which means he can do stuff at the speed of thought, this means that he can in fact nuke Ainz up close.
Also again, Ainz is a reactive player he will most likely summon a high tier wraith to get a distance to figure out Reinhard's immortality. Important to mention this but Ainz in character prolongs fights if his opponent has a possible ability that he doesn't know, that gives him even more reason to shift to an reactive play

No; oh shit. Anyway, no layer so far so the argument stands

GH isn't layered either, all we have seen is it killing low leveled players who dont have death hax resistance, which puts Reinhard above them becuz he does have resistance.

Ain't that the whole thing of the character, having a fuckton of blessings and if it's needed he gets a new non-existing one?

It is but he doesn't get abilities that haven't canonically be shown, so for example he got a blessing to manipulate emotions when he was in a room and wanted it for a situation. The conversation basically went like this
Subaru: damn, a divine blessing for countering Sirius would really be appreciated right now. Do you have anything sword saint?
Reinhard: I wish i did but..
Subaru: ah, i guess we can't expect everything from-
Reinhard: i just got it.
Subaru: what.
Reinhard: yeah i just got the blessing

Anyway, remember this weakness part, it's relevant af

I couldn't quite pin point what it was so could you explain it again

I am pretty confident that nah

And your reason? You can't just say no to an explanation.

They're fast and Reinhard is faster, and ainz got equalized to that (weren't they equalized on this example, since they were doing the exact same thing on the same speed, at least on this part of the battle?)

My point is that them being equalized in speed physically doesn't account for skills, instincts and dexterity which can still be utilized and as seen with the mid tier characters, even if they are on the same relative speed every movement has to be perfectly refined. All of these skills fail to come close to Reinhard's which is so vastly above them that it makes Wilhelm comment on how unfathomable his skills are.

"I think" coming from who?

Coming from the fact that wilhelm and theresia are higher in skill and speed.

That's a Garfiel ability, can't be utilized here since if applied against Reinhard or anyone...would mean Garfiel is really concentrated on an impressive level. Nothing to do with what you proposed of speed.

Garfiel scales below every mid tier in re zero, any skill he has has been mastered and bettered by people above him.

Sorry for the delayed answer, I have almost no time to answer here all the sudden

Its fine

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Mate, I disagree from you both and think this is a cool discussion, but please tell me if you concede or anything before I take at least 1h 30min to answer everything

Not conceding for now

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ainz
immediately killed her with [Death] without hesitation. Volume 16

he would have cast instant death magic on him. However, it didn’t trigger, volume 16

Ainz interrupted their conversation and cast an eighth-tier spell, [Silent
Magic – Death].
The ape-like demi-human’s smile was frozen on his face as he slowly
collapsed.
“…What? What did you―”
“―I told you to shut up, didn’t I?” Ainz once again cast a [Silent Magic – Death] spell. The four-legged demi-human collapsed in the same way as just now.
“Eh? Ehhh? What happened? What’s going on?” The female demi-human who remained still did not understand what was
going on, but it would seem she had already recognized who had done it.
“Was, was it you? You killed those two in an instant…?”
Terror was deeply etched on her face. Her body was shaking hard.
“Yes, yes,” Ainz carelessly cast a [Silent Magic – Death] on the female demihuman as well. “―Hmmm?” Volume 13 even he spaming it

Thats him killing a group silently, this is out of context and he specifically used it to avoid detection in case somebody could detect GH and also see perfect unknowable. He would opt for GH in a non discreet situation

I never see Ainz cast GH again to unknown oppoment after Vol 11

He doesnt get a chance to use it. He stays indoors for the most part, he causes massacres and on his secret missions he wants to avoid any and all detection.

I think that is Resistance Negotiation and rein does't have resistance to it

No it isnt. GH has only killed people with no death hax resistance

Ainz is paranoid guy, and never face unknown enemy with rivive, even he Will overthingking with small thing.

Or yk, he will assume the guy's main power is not dying and he would switch to a hide behind summon strategy as he has done against all fights with warriors strong enough to challenge him. Which is the more possible outcome

Sure, Ainz Will spaming Time stop/Temoral statis and instan death magic. Ainz is very often saying Instan death and Time stop countermeasures is very important.

Temporal stasis isnt time stop btw, anyways he wont just repeat and waste his spells on a guy who doesn't permanently die from it. Most likely to use a summon becuz Reinhard looks like a warrior

 

[Hanzozeroo]

Thats him killing a group silently, this is out of context and he specifically used it to avoid detection in case somebody could detect GH and also see perfect unknowable. He would opt for GH in a non discreet situation

Worng, Ainz using "death" In secreet situation is only 1 time

He doesnt get a chance to use it. He stays indoors for the most part, he causes massacres and on his secret missions he wants to avoid any and all detection.

Worng, Ainz using "death" In secreet situation is only 1 time

No it isnt. GH has only killed people with no death hax resistance

Ainz GH is 100% kill rate(not counting to PDL armor because that isn't Ainz), and i post about LV resistance already, if your statement like that lots of Reinhard Resistance never shown on WN/LN just statement he will resisted 6 Element.

Or yk, he will assume the guy's main power is not dying and he would switch to a hide behind summon strategy as he has done against all fights with warriors strong enough to challenge him. Which is the more possible outcome

When ? And this does't change anything, Ainz still can spaming Time stop

Temporal stasis isnt time stop btw, anyways he wont just repeat and waste his spells on a guy who doesn't permanently die from it. Most likely to use a summon becuz Reinhard looks like a warrior

That is single target time stop, Shalltear with full body armor is half magic Caster.

Maybe this is my last post

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Worng, Ainz using "death" In secreet situation is only 1 time

Worng, Ainz using "death" In secreet situation is only 1 time

And he killed multiple people in that situation not to mention he still wanted to stay discreet. He hasnt used it mid combat even once, you also did not counter my points about him not getting the chance to use GH

Ainz GH is 100% kill rate(not counting to PDL armor because that isn't Ainz), and i post about LV resistance already,

Exactly and he hasnt used it on anybody who has LV resistance, thus giving GH no feats of being multi layered.

if your statement like that lots of Reinhard Resistance never shown on WN/LN just statement he will resisted 6 Element.

I have no idea what you mean but a lot of his feat are from the ss and Ex novels too

When ? And this does't change anything, Ainz still can spaming Time stop

He can but the moment he switches to hide behind summon play, he loses

That is single target time stop, Shalltear with full body armor is half magic Caster.

He stopped time for the world which would include Shaltear, i highly doubt he pulled a Regulus on the fly

Maybe this is my last post

Hopefully not

 

[noninho]

Reinhard's godly instincts basically tell him exactly what he needs to do in order to win, he has literal optimal play 100% of the time. compare this to Ainz who will be confused at the beginning of the match and you can see why its more likely for Reinhard to win.

nah, Reinhard can easily get killed when coming at Ainz, the thing is after that, what can be done, and IMO nothing or not enough before his soul get ******

Reinhard has tens of kilometres of range

So does Ainz, and they're equal speed.

or you know he could summon a higher tier one to buy time engaging in combat with Reinhard who he believes is a physical guy due to his appearance, which then leads to him getting nuked by a single sword strike

no he won't believe he's an physical guy, since he just saw the guy ressurecting on a completely strange way after getting insta killed. He'd summon what he needed to get what would insta-kill him in the most sure way.

Idk if I should be responding to such old arguments so imma jump to newer ones

 

[noninho]

Thats him killing a group silently, this is out of context and he specifically used it to avoid detection in case somebody could detect GH and also see perfect unknowable. He would opt for GH in a non discreet situation

Yeah, that may be true but unfortunately doesn't matter, if GH doesn't kill him, greater Teleportation gets Ainz out of the way of Reinhard, and when he comes after him again, he'll for sure get killed in TS like Gazef.

No it isnt. GH has only killed people with no death hax resistance

Wait a minute, I remembered something
"Grasp Heart: A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them. Even if the target resists, they instead become stupefied or stunned as a secondary effect. This is said by Ainz to be his favorite spell."
It's not a "death" magic, it's Darkness manip that can insta kill..and Darkness is not resisted by Reinhard, so he definetly die for it lol

Exactly and he hasnt used it on anybody who has LV resistance, thus giving GH no feats of being multi layered

Agreed but isn't needed.

He can but the moment he switches to hide behind summon play, he loses

I'm totally against that he'd do this, cuz when he saw the guy died, not suffered the secondary effects, and ressurected with no trace of the usual magic for it, he'd kill him with even more efficiency.

Idk what else I haven't (or have and I'm repeating idk why) responded yet
Hope everything is fine

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

nah, Reinhard can easily get killed when coming at Ainz, the thing is after that, what can be done, and IMO nothing or not enough before his soul get ******

Ainz has on multiple occasions used a summon to guage on his opponents powers, so it isnt as unlikely as you might think

So does Ainz, and they're equal speed.

Fair

no he won't believe he's an physical guy, since he just saw the guy ressurecting on a completely strange way after getting insta killed. He'd summon what he needed to get what would insta-kill him in the most sure way.

All players in Ygg can resurrect themsekves with items or hidden trump cards, its not exactly a unique skill. The reason he would appeae as a physical guy is due to his sword and knight atire. Ainz would assume that he was a player roleplaying as some knight, and Ainz is likely to then use his summon to find a way to kill him. This is backed by the fact that he gets random bouts of curiosity on his opponents strength but isnr as likely to risk losing just due to that. The nail in the coffin however is the fact that he is a reactive player rather than an assertive one.

Idk if I should be responding to such old arguments so imma jump to newer ones

Alright

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, that may be true but unfortunately doesn't matter, if GH doesn't kill him, greater Teleportation gets Ainz out of the way of Reinhard, and when he comes after him again, he'll for sure get killed in TS like Gazef.

Gazef got true death'd but that was due to his own request, Ainz hasnt used TD of his own volition.

Wait a minute, I remembered something
"Grasp Heart: A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them. Even if the target resists, they instead become stupefied or stunned as a secondary effect. This is said by Ainz to be his favorite spell."
It's not a "death" magic, it's Darkness manip that can insta kill..and Darkness is not resisted by Reinhard, so he definetly die for it lol

No, its literally stated to be insta death, which puts it as death manipulation.
Secondly, nowehre is it stated to be of the darkness nature, so no idea where you got that from.
And finally yin magic is literally darkness magic and so is Satella's shadow hands. Reinhard absolutely resists those.

Agreed but isn't needed.

I'm totally against that he'd do this, cuz when he saw the guy died, not suffered the secondary effects, and ressurected with no trace of the usual magic for it, he'd kill him with even more efficiency.

And whats your backing for it? Your entire arguement is based on the assumption that he would go for the optimal play instead of his usual playstyle of hiding behind summons and being reactive, as seen multiple times in the series + whats been stated in the wiki. I have reason to believe that Ainz would follow his usual style over a randomly generated new one.

 

[noninho]

Yeah, don't think I have arguments good enough for Ainz
So his condition for winning is having prep-time, which people may call a stomp, but I don't
And apparently Ainz have no defense good enough except getting one-shot, so it's a stomp, no?

 

[Dragonite007]

Mehh... I'm not reading all that

What are the arguments on both sides?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Mehh... I'm not reading all that

What are the arguments on both sides?

No need, its always gonna be a stomp with reinhard vs Ainz

Yeah, don't think I have arguments good enough for Ainz
So his condition for winning is having prep-time, which people may call a stomp, but I don't
And apparently Ainz have no defense good enough except getting one-shot, so it's a stomp, no?

Ainz with prep time wins 100% of the time, like Reinhard has no chance against that