Ainz Ooal Gown vs Reinhard Van Astrea 7-0 (Grace)

[AzuRizzz]

So, are Ainz's items not gonna work too like wish upon a star for example.

 

[noninho]

And on the description, it says "the only counter being that one must use either an item or skill that would cause them to be revived before the 12 seconds pass."

His goddess could do something like that? it's shown that in less than 12s he wouls gain a new ability to be immortal on a different way or something on this level?

So, are Ainz's items not gonna work too like wish upon a star for example.

How long it takes to wish?

 

[Phoenks]

His goddess could do something like that? it's shown that in less than 12s he wouls gain a new ability to be immortal on a different way or something on this level?

How long it takes to wish?

There is no need for him to wish in this case. He has resurrection, so he will survive the death.

 

[Apeironaxim]

idk if this means anything, but i just got done with a crt that added an ability (that i forgot to put on from an earlier crt lmao). So now Ainz has Power Absorption via WUAS. I guess if Ainz has prep and prior knowledge of how strong Reinhard is, he could conceivably start off with WUAS and steal his powers

 

[Apeironaxim]

What type of Soul Manip does Reinhard resist?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

idk if this means anything, but i just got done with a crt that added an ability (that i forgot to put on from an earlier crt lmao). So now Ainz has Power Absorption via WUAS. I guess if Ainz has prep and prior knowledge of how strong Reinhard is, he could conceivably start off with WUAS and steal his powers

Probably won't help since Reinhard's powers come from an entity called Od Laguna, and if Reinhard's powers were taken away, he could simply regain them by wishing them back by asking Od Laguna to give them to him... I think. Don't think Power Absorb would be able to deal with Reinhard's connection with Od Laguna unless WUAS can erase it from existence, but idk.

What type of Soul Manip does Reinhard resist?

Am pretty sure that soul manip exists as a board category here, so... all of 'em?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Am pretty sure that soul manip exists as a board category here, so... all of 'em?

Has he resisted his soul being burnt away instantly?

 

[Apeironaxim]

Probably won't help since Reinhard's powers come from an entity called Od Laguna, and if Reinhard's powers were taken away, he could simply regain them by wishing them back by asking Od Laguna to give them to him... I think. Don't think Power Absorb would be able to deal with Reinhard's connection with Od Laguna unless WUAS can erase it from existence, but idk.


Am pretty sure that soul manip exists as a board category here, so... all of 'em?

I mean even if he gets them back, Ainz would still be stealing his powers for himself, so Ainz would have a lot more options on top of his own arsenal.

That's not really how that works, Soul Manip is used to described all things soul related yeah, but that doesn't mean you resist anything being done to it unless specified. Like if someone had Soul absorption, they would have soul manip listed, but then specified in the justification that it's absorbing souls, and not just blanket total soul manipulation. Same thing with resistance. Because if Reinhard doesn't specifically resist his soul being absorbed, then Ainz can summon Soul Eaters that do just that.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Huh. Learn something new everyday.

... On the other hand, Reinhard's wincon here is to simply swing his sword once and unleash a 101 GT (Large Island Level) AoE attack that has matter manip hax attached to it, and would be his first move due to it happening when he just seriously swings his sword, so I don't think power absorb matters too much in the grand scheme.

Has he resisted his soul being burnt away instantly?

Nope... for now. Re:Zero is still on-going, so it might happen in the future. But I do think more well-versed experts mentioned Reinhard got layered soul manipulation, so that might help fight against it... Also, smth smth, Reinhard's type 8 immortality might also be a hinderence, but again, idk.

 

[Apeironaxim]

How's Reinhard's time stop resistance? Ainz's Time Stop worked on a monster that broke out of another time stop, so if that isn't layered then Ainz prob has some wiggle room, like spamming Time Stop and teleporting away and such

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It isn't layered in the slightest.... So Ainz gets to time stop and teleport away to do whatever he needs to do.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It isn't layered in the slightest.... So Ainz gets to time stop and teleport away to do whatever he needs to do.

Ouch, so Ainz can just do shit like his summoning to basically perma incap Reinhard

 

[Apeironaxim]

So Ainz could conceivably Time Stop to put a lot of distance and use WUAS to Power Absorb and get some extra stuff + summon Soul Eaters right on top of a Time Stopped Reinhard to absorb his soul. Or even just summon a group of Soul Eaters on top of him if that's all that's needed

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Huh. Methinks that Ainz having prep-time and prior knowledge has really tipped the scales... to... idk. With the stuff that you are saying now, it makes me think that Ainz doesn't really need prep-time thanks to this win-con you mentioned.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yeah the prior knowledge is what really helps Ainz here, as due to that he knows exactly what he needs to do, or at least has very good idea. Ainz is already extremely likely to start off with Time Stop in a serious battle, even (especially) if he knows nothing about his opponent, let alone knowing exactly how dangerous they are to him, but he might not figure out the perma incap/wincon with Soul Eaters in time if he didn't have prior knowledge.

 

[noninho]

There is no need for him to wish in this case. He has resurrection, so he will survive the death.

no, no, the wish i meant was the Wish Upon A Star, one of Ainz' moves

and i still want to know about how long the goddess takes to create the new blessing

 

[Apeironaxim]

no, no, the wish i meant was the Wish Upon A Star, one of Ainz' moves

Wish Upon a Star takes a little bit to do, but since he has prep he can have a Cash Item at the ready, which when used gets rid of the casting time. And he can also prob use Time Stop to essentially cheat the time anyway

 

[noninho]

I think. Don't think Power Absorb would be able to deal with Reinhard's connection with Od Laguna unless WUAS can erase it from existence, but idk.

Well, we would have to see the limits of this wishing spell, but since here's Unknown, it becomes kinda hard

So Ainz could conceivably Time Stop to put a lot of distance and use WUAS to Power Absorb and get some extra stuff + summon Soul Eaters right on top of a Time Stopped Reinhard to absorb his soul. Or even just summon a group of Soul Eaters on top of him if that's all that's needed

From what i got about this guy (idk anything about r;z, just his profile), i think it would be needed that time were stopped, and i think it would have to work in one shot, because doesn't sound impossible to me that someone argue that his goddess can make him immune to it just because. Also, Soul Eaters move in Time-Stop?

Yeah the prior knowledge is what really helps Ainz here, as due to that he knows exactly what he needs to do, or at least has very good idea. Ainz is already extremely likely to start off with Time Stop in a serious battle, even (especially) if he knows nothing about his opponent, let alone knowing exactly how dangerous they are to him, but he might not figure out the perma incap/wincon with Soul Eaters in time if he didn't have prior knowledge.

Momonga wins? geez, i'm happy :>

 

[noninho]

Wish Upon a Star takes a little bit to do, but since he has prep he can have a Cash Item at the ready, which when used gets rid of the casting time. And he can also prob use Time Stop to essentially cheat the time anyway

ts to cheat power stealing and ts again
omegalul

 

[Phoenks]

Kind of salty that Ainz was given the advantage of prior knowledge AND preparation.

 

[Apeironaxim]

From what i got about this guy (idk anything about r;z, just his profile), i think it would be needed that time were stopped, and i think it would have to work in one shot, because doesn't sound impossible to me that someone argue that his goddess can make him immune to it just because. Also, Soul Eaters move in Time-Stop?

From what I can see, if his soul is gone then he won't revive anymore and will be dead, so if the Soul Eaters get him then it should be game over. Idk if they can move in Time Stop, but Ainz can still summon them so they'll be literally right there as soon as the Time Stop ends anyway, since you can't affect someone in Time Stop in Overlord. Which is why Ainz has mastered the timing of his spells and such to go off the exact instant the Time Stop ends

 

[Apeironaxim]

Kind of salty that Ainz was given the advantage of prior knowledge AND preparation.

The prep probably isn't needed, the level of prior knowledge he has is what really lets him win more times than not here. If he doesn't have either, then either Reinhard wins more often than not, or it's incon. The reason there might be a possibility for incon if there's no prior knowledge is cause Ainz is basically guaranteed to Time Stop at the start, and spend the time to test Reinhard's resistances to see what works. He would also summon undead to help him, so there'd be a possibility he'd summon a Soul Eater which would give him the win seemingly.

As it is atm, Ainz prob wins, even if you took away prep time and just kept the prior knowledge. But if you take both away, he either loses or it's an incon based on the possibility Ainz would summon the Soul Eater in time for it to soul absorb Reinhard

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Time stop won't work on Reinhard.

 

[Apeironaxim]

So his Time Stop resistance is layered?

 

[noninho]

Kind of salty that Ainz was given the advantage of prior knowledge AND preparation.

It would still require a huge level of Mastery in magic by Momonga, 'cuz from what i've seen, if this blessed guy is tasked to slay him, then it means a lot.
And big brains too, because if it wasn't by his order, the NPCs in Nazarick would try attacking Reinhard and probably die, or screwing Momonga's plans at minimum. Oh, and also a good positioning, because i think Reinhard's "blessed" lesser attacks would mess him up (since it's Momonga's weakness by being a Skeleton/High-Level Necromancer. Reduced by itens but still there)

Time stop won't work on Reinhard.

my man just drop by with no arguments or scans. zamn...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Not home so can't make any long arguments, just observing.

But no his time stop resistance isn't layered, as for soul it is, and he does potentially resist soul destruction.

His wishing blessings gives him new blessings instantly, like mid sentence he got it when talking to Subaru.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Ainz's Time Stop worked on something that resisted another kind of time stop, so if his resistance to it isn't layered, then it would work.

 

[noninho]

His wishing blessings gives him new blessings instantly, like mid sentence he got it when talking to Subaru.

please send me scans of this, and let's compare to how much Momonga would take to do his thing :>

But no his time stop resistance isn't layered, as for soul it is, and he does potentially resist soul destruction.

But Ainz' time stop is layered... and "Potentially" does not fit the situation.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Also in this case it's not soul destruction, but soul absorption

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

From what i got about this guy (idk anything about r;z, just his profile), i think it would be needed that time were stopped, and i think it would have to work in one shot, because doesn't sound impossible to me that someone argue that his goddess can make him immune to it just because. Also, Soul Eaters move in Time-Stop?

Also, just wanna say that... Reinhard doesn't have a goddess. He has Od Laguna... Not a god, but just a "thing" that deals with souls and is clearly sentient to a degree, since it heavily favors Reinhard for a yet unexplained reason... Nothing else to correct.

Kind of salty that Ainz was given the advantage of prior knowledge AND preparation.

While I will now say preparation is a bit overkill, Ainz 100% needs prior knowledge due to the simple fact that Reinhard just breathing on him would disintegrate due to sheer AP advantage and matter hax.

 

[noninho]

Also, just wanna say that... Reinhard doesn't have a goddess. He has Od Laguna... Not a god, but just a "thing" that deals with souls and is clearly sentient to a degree, since it heavily favors Reinhard for a yet unexplained reason... Nothing else to correct.

Ok, what is this thing and where it "resides"? It's a spirit who's around him? an "unreacheable entity who can interfere in this world in ancient unknown ways"?
it's like an ancient one such as Cthullu?
The state of being that

Spoiler

Joseph was when he told Jotaro to not lose his cool

?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ok, what is this thing and where it "resides"? It's a spirit who's around him? an "unreacheable entity who can interfere in this world in ancient unknown ways"?
it's like an ancient one such as Cthullu?
The state of being that

Spoiler

Joseph was when he told Jotaro to not lose his cool

?

The bolded one. More or less. It just exists to give Reinhard power-ups, so it isn't too important.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Od Laguna is a mechanism to keep the world from breaking, it controls the souls of everyone, and basically cleans them so they can be reused.

Od Laguna is in charge of cleansing souls, Gluttony's authority is basically absorbing souls

“ーーOnii-san, why do you remember the『Memories』we had stolen?”
It had been an unnatural response.
Perceiving that whilst holding him down, Louis greatly twisted her neck.
The『Memories』eaten by『Gluttony』did not remain extant within the person concerned, the『Names』eaten by『Gluttony』did not remain extant within other people. That is because the Authority tore them off from the『Soul』, which defined existence in the world.
The proper cleansing of the『Soul』by Od Lagna, which was practiced in the『Hall of Memories』ーー arbitrarily acting as its agent, and stealthily deceiving, plundering and harvesting was what the Authority of『Gluttony』was. Therefore, the『Memories』and『Names』snavelled by『Gluttony』did not remain extant within anyone. Restrictively, though there had been ones who had only『Memories』, only『Names』stolen away, respective negative effects got applied.
If the『Memories』were stolen then said person, if the『Name』was stolen then other people, could no longer remember the person concerned. That could not be altered as long as the disposition of the『Soul』remained within the protection of Od Lagna.-Arc 6, Chapter 75

Reid, Reinhard's ancestor, and equal, got his soul eaten by Gluttony, but still was able to take control of Glutyony's body with just his soul

Subaru: “It can’t be, Julius……”
Julius: “Ah, likely, what you are imagining is correct.”
While keeping his line of sight maintained towards Reid, Julius pulled in his jaw upon Subaru’s hoarse voice. The good-looking man rubbed his cheek stained by his own blood with his shoulder and whilst continuing to erase that bloodstain,
Julius: “My wording earlier, was at fault. Let me correct it. ーーHe, in front of our eyes, that flesh body belongs to Roy Alphard. However, that spirit is different.”
Subaru: “ーーSpirit.”
Julius: “Roy Alphard, ate the『Memories』of Reid Astrea, and had the control over his own spirit stolen by those『Memories』. Henceforth he, without any restrictions, descended from the second layer and is now here.”-Arc 6, Chapter 69

Just thought that was cool so i included it, anyway back to Od Laguna, as i said before it filters souls, removing memories so the souls can go back into the cycle of reincarnation

Louis: “This is, a place just as how it appears. A place where e~verything disappears, that’s why, a place with nothing. We’re standing here all alone, that’s why we may seem like the guardian deity of this place, isn’t it.”
Subaru: “The cradle of Od Lagna, was it? Including the name Hall of Memories as well, nothing at all got into my head from head to toe.”
Louis: “Hm, hm, hm, hm~, guess so…… Basically, this is the place where souls are filtered.”
Subaru: “Filtering, souls?”
At the expression difficult to be accustomed to, Subaru had question marks float within his mind.
Filtering, in other words had the same implication as saying sieving, but it was rare to hear it being utilised with regard to souls.
However, Louis, with a happy expression, pulled her knees towards herself and said “Yes, yes”.
Louis: “You use a dust cloth which had been used once again after washing and drying it, no? The same goes for souls. By clearing the dirt stuck onto it, it is used once more when in a clear state again.”
Subaru: “That, dirt stuck onto it…… does it mean memories or experiences and stuff?”
Louis: “If that’s what you can understand, then let’s keep it that way, alright? Onii-san, do as how you’d like.”-Arc 6, Chapter 60

Od Laguna is a mechanism to keep the world from breaking, the core point of the world, where all mana returns to and is circulated

In response to what Subaru had explained, Beatrice thoughtfully muttered “Od Lagna……”.
Subaru: “Louis, said it was a mechanism to keep the world from breaking or something. Do you have any idea about it?”
Beatrice: “Betty isn’t well-knowledgeable regarding that either, I suppose. But, just that it is the core point of this world…… the place where all the mana returns to, is what it’s said, in fact.”
Shaking her head in response to the doubt, such was Beatrice’s response. Putting her finger on her sliding drills, she continued fidgeting with her soft hair.
Beatrice: “All mana returns to Od Lagna, and gets circulated…… In other words, Od Lagna is an existence heavily tied with the death and resuscitation of spirits. That’s why, it can’t be stated as something unrelated to Betty and the others.”
Echidna: “However, we are special due to our origins. Our existence does not go by way of Od Lagna. In that sense, unlike other normal spirits we are able to hold an objective view at Od Lagna, I suppose.”-Arc 6, Chapter 62

So basically just a thing which is manipulating the souls and mana of the world, not much else is known, like why the heck is this thing making Reinhard so op? Is it to prevent something in the future that would break the world? Who knows.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Also as i said before, Reinhard gets new blessings the moment he desires them

“Hey, Reinhard, by any chance, do you have some kind of ability to see the power that people have—right, blessings? Do you have some kind of ability to see blessings or something?”

“There is a divine protection called the blessing of judgment that allows one to know people’s blessings. I see. If she truly does bear a songstress blessing, then that could serve as evidence to accept Lady Priscilla’s contention.”

Reinhard rested his hand on his chin in thought. Subaru had turned to him because he figured he might as well try, but it was only natural that Reinhard did not just magically have the solution to something like that.

“Don’t worry about it.” Subaru waved him off. “That was too much to hope for. Anyway, if we could just get a little bit of data about how much effect Liliana’s singing has…”

“There is no need for that—I was just blessed with one.”

“Huh? Blessed with what, a child? You’ve got to be kidding me, right?”

That was the first thing that came to mind at that turn of phrase.

Smiling awkwardly at Subaru’s reaction, Reinhard looked closely at Liliana. Liliana seemed to writhe under his gaze, but he ignored her reaction.

“That is surprising. She is indeed a bearer of the blessing of telepathy.”

“I’m more surprised by you than her blessing, honestly. Huh? Wait, what did you just say? You were granted something?”

“This isn’t the time for joking around. Put simply, the telepathy blessing is one that allows the bearer to convey their feelings to others. Ordinarily, it just acts on a level that allows one to share one’s thoughts with another who is particularly intimate, but…singing? I had never considered that possibility before.”

Reinhard was purely admiring the power of Liliana’s songs, but Subaru still had not scooped up his jaw from where it had dropped when Reinhard started explaining the blessing. He had called Reinhard’s strength a cheat and beyond superhuman before, but this was just too much. He was way too beloved by God, the world, or fate. Whatever was responsible, simply granting the blessing the moment Reinhard desired it…-Volume 18, Chapter 4

As for what i was talking about with him potentially resisting soul destruction, that's from a q&a where the author was asked what would happen if Reinhard's soul was destroy, would he just revive with the blessing of the phoenix, here is what he said:

"About the blessing of the phoenix, the blessing won't activate if the soul is destroyed, but that sort of thing almost never happens, so you'll revive if you're killed. The Life Sword is able to destroy the soul, but if he faced off with the life sword, a blessing appropriate for that might pop up".

Basically a situation where Reinhard gets his soul destroyed is almost never gonna happen, but if such a thing ever happened he might get a blessing to counter that. The blessing of the phoenix is limited to reviving him below soul destruction but he could get another blessing to overcome that weakness, makes sense seeing as Od Laguna refuses to let Reinhard die, and is literally in control of all the world's souls.

 

[noninho]

Basically a situation where Reinhard gets his soul destroyed is almost never gonna happen, but if such a thing ever happened he might get a blessing to counter that. The blessing of the phoenix is limited to reviving him below soul destruction but he could get another blessing to overcome that weakness, makes sense seeing as Od Laguna refuses to let Reinhard die, and is literally in control of all the world's souls.

sheesh...i guess we would have to see if she could restore his soul or make a counter to that...
And well, if he gets his blessings whenever he wishes, he wound't have time to do so (layered timestop x simple timestop resistance). If this thing can make a counter, we would have to see if it can bypass layered timestop and in time to prevent the Soul Eaters to destroy his soul...But we also need to see if the Soul Eaters Momonga summons would move in timestop like he can.

So, it would be incon, but imo we have Reinhard needing to satisfy 2 or 3 improbable conditions, and Momonga having to make his summons move in timestop like he already can, which i would say as probable.
still voting for my man skeleton Ainz Ooal "Momonga" Gown, mate.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Funny thing is Ainz can literally just stand near Reinhard and perma incap him with Despair Aura 5 which is 100% in-character(and isn't magic so it ain't nulled), hell, he could even take away Reinhard's sword with superior LS and just put it in his inventory and find some place to trap him under a Boulder or some shit to stop him from moving

 

[noninho]

Funny thing is Ainz can literally just stand near Reinhard and perma incap him with Despair Aura 5 which is 100% in-character(and isn't magic so it ain't nulled), hell, he could even take away Reinhard's sword with superior LS and just put it in his inventory and find some place to trap him under a Boulder or some shit to stop him from moving

completely forgot it... blessed guy's completely f*cked :V

 

[Greatsage13th]

Funny thing is Ainz can literally just stand near Reinhard and perma incap him with Despair Aura 5 which is 100% in-character(and isn't magic so it ain't nulled), hell, he could even take away Reinhard's sword with superior LS and just put it in his inventory and find some place to trap him under a Boulder or some shit to stop him from moving

Huge oof.

 

[Apeironaxim]

I really feel like saying Reinhard just effectively gains Mid Godly because "lmao" is too far. Yeah he gains blessings, but if that argument is accepted then there's nothing stopping you from also claiming "Well his concept wouldn't be destroyed because he would get a blessing, and if it was he would just get one to revive from concept destruction and get High-Godly instantly." I'm voting for Ainz based on him spawning and/or teleporting with Soul Eaters right on top of Reinhard while Time Stopped, thus meaning Reinhard has no chance to want for a blessing, as his soul is instantly absorbed. Especially since this Od Laguna is where souls return to, and if there's no soul, then there's nothing returning

 

[Greatsage13th]

Funny thing is Ainz can literally just stand near Reinhard and perma incap him with Despair Aura 5 which is 100% in-character(and isn't magic so it ain't nulled), hell, he could even take away Reinhard's sword with superior LS and just put it in his inventory and find some place to trap him under a Boulder or some shit to stop him from moving

That'd be pretty based ngl