Sorcerer King x Blessed Knight again but fair

[noninho]

This time's rules:
= speed
3km starting distance i think would be fair (since both only state "several kilometers" in range)
no prep time, no prior knowledge
in minecraft's flat world
Best keys are used, SBA for the rest
Please take a second opening this document, It took some days to write and will make the discussion a little faster i guess

Ainz:
Reinhard:
incon:

 

[Dragonite007]

So, what's change since last time?
Because we argued this more than three times.

 

[noninho]

So, what's change since last time?
Because we argued this more than three times.

the ones i saw were
=speed, prep time and prior knowledge for ainz, which i participated
and one that's still open but it's biased for Reinhard
i'm trying to do one with =speed, prior knowledge for ainz and just that

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'm sure Reinhard would adapt to all Ainz's spells and find some anti-Ainz blessing in his utility belt. The Anti-Ainz No-Limits Fallacy Blessing which automatically shuts Ainz down.

How many times can Reinhard resurrect after Ainz gets him, and can he resist the paralysis secondary effect?

 

[noninho]

How many times can Reinhard resurrect after Ainz gets him, and can he resist the paralysis secondary effect?

0, ainz can bypass and negg ressurection

 

[DaReaperMan]

0, ainz can bypass and negg ressurection

Only type 4. Rein has type 8.

 

[noninho]

Only type 4. Rein has type 8.

Yup, but he asked about ressurection, he can resurrect 0 times. Type 8 would be od laguna not letting him die, but layered TS and soul-absorbing creatures take care of that beyond blessings could do so

 

[noninho]

Oh yeah, reinforcing:
Last time's finishing move was supposing that ainz had prep time but they were close, and even with that, TS just bullied him
Via SBA's comprehension of starting distance:
"
The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers.
"
We can safely say that 2km is a good starting distance. Via = speed, when Reinhard's getting close to Ainz, he'll already know his abilities and become invisible. Ainz is immune to Clairvoyance and etc, so he can like, idk, hide behind some trees and use a huge spell with Silent Magic or stop time like he did with Gazef Stronoff but with more layers since he knows Reinhard has a little time manip resistance and conjuring the soul-absorbing creatures so he dies, don't resurrect and stays dead

 

[noninho]

Bump

 

[noninho]

Oh yeah
Ainz could break Reid, Great Break Item spell
Ainz is immune to attacks below lvl 60, which we can easily say Reinhard isn't via he having no actual levels in Yggdrasil, so no martial arts.
If Reinhard tries to Clairvoyance him, Ainz has a skill that can not just make him immune for it, but to link back an offensive magic, and via prior knowledge he'd know what hurts
By the nature of the skill, The Goal Of All Life Is Death can and will bypass his immortality type 8 which works like a resistance to dying since it's Od Laguna not letting him do so and, again, Ainz neggs ressurection. TGoALiD+Despair Aura V/Iä Shub-Niggurath+True Death=gg

 

[noninho]

Bump

 

[noninho]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Oh yeah
Ainz could break Reid, Great Break Item spell
Ainz is immune to attacks below lvl 60, which we can easily say Reinhard isn't via he having no actual levels in Yggdrasil, so no martial arts.
If Reinhard tries to Clairvoyance him, Ainz has a skill that can not just make him immune for it, but to link back an offensive magic, and via prior knowledge he'd know what hurts
By the nature of the skill, The Goal Of All Life Is Death can and will bypass his immortality type 8 which works like a resistance to dying since it's Od Laguna not letting him do so and, again, Ainz neggs ressurection. TGoALiD+Despair Aura V/Iä Shub-Niggurath+True Death=gg

I dont think most of those would work, for starters
1. he can't, Reid is stated to be completely indestructible by anything in the RZ verse we have seen. Including Temporal durability negation and i highly doubt greater break spell is higher than that
2. Reinhard has way higher AP and Dura, it wouldnt make sense for him to be below lv 60 if he was in overlord
3. Reinhard doesnt need to use clairavoyance, his ******* godly instincts tell him exactly what to do and he scales way above people like Wilhelm and Theresia who practically know the best move to kill/win.

Starts with Old Wil being able to predict future attacks via gaze, body movement, hostility.

Resurrected Theresia has equal skill to him, both being said to be masters, beyond the limits of humans. Theresia was about to kill Wil, and he knew exactly how he would die, he predicted the attack path of her sword, then basically breaks his limits, slowing down his perception, and dodges her attack.

Young Wil>Old Wil, and as seen from the anime when Wil found out she is the sword saint, she dodges his attacks, and catches his sword. A sword saint can read the trajectories of their opponents attacks, and knows everything about optimal striking force and angle. When facing anyone, they see lines which if they follow, will unquestionable kill their opponent. So yea Theresia precog>Wil's.

Wil then trains, comes back, and gets so skilled, Theresia's precog lines are broken, she can't kill him, and then he defeats her. That Wil is inferior to Reinhard, who has a 6th sense that lets him see all attacks in advance.

the difference between them is so massive that the gap between them is unbridgeable.
Also, Rein's godly instincts are so ******* amazing he can give a blind test of any subject of any difficulty and get 100% on it even if its not mcq. (i really want his instinct)
4. You have a misconception about TGOALID. it specifically negates your immunity to death haxes, it doesnt actually stop you in any form from coming back. its a very shitty trump card if you really think about it, since it takes 12 seconds to activate and then the opponent can just revive themselves. So, yeah Reinhard just respawns with no problem here.
5. Despair aura V also doesnt work any longer as he has death hax resistance now

 

[Hanzozeroo]

I don't think it's changed much from the previous match.
Ainz still has his prior knowledge
Ainz use Time stop, Penetrate Magic(since reinhard have resistance) + True death or whatever (reinhard dies again and again) and Ainz summon soul Eater to absorb reinhard soul.
.

 

[noninho]

1. he can't, Reid is stated to be completely indestructible by anything in the RZ verse we have seen. Including Temporal durability negation and i highly doubt greater break spell is higher than that

Read yourself again.
"In the RZ verse". This magic is not on it
Not that I'll stay with this point, just for you to argue better.

Reinhard has way higher AP and Dura, it wouldnt make sense for him to be below lv 60 if he was in overlord

Via level system, he's level 1. What I argue for is just to nullify Martial arts. Only that.

Reinhard doesnt need to use clairavoyance, his ******* godly instincts tell him exactly what to do and he scales way above people like Wilhelm and Theresia who practically know the best move to kill/win.

Unless he have a KotZ 6th sense, via Ainz also having Stealth Mastery, it just won't happen.

the difference between them is so massive that the gap between them is unbridgeable.

If you're talking about ainz and rein, not the characters on the quote, it was a great and tasty juice of head canon

Also, Rein's godly instincts are so ******* amazing he can give a blind test of any subject of any difficulty and get 100% on it even if its not mcq. (i really want his instinct)

Cool, the invisible guy is invisible...and immune to any eventual Clairvoyance...and is doing magic silently. Unless you argue Ainz would use his persona Dark Hero Momon, he won't be facing Rein in h2h combat.

You have a misconception about TGOALID. it specifically negates your immunity to death haxes

My argument is that it bypasses Immortality type 8. Just that. If I'm wrong, ainz have other ways to get Rein to be dead and never alive again.

Despair aura V also doesnt work any longer as he has death hax resistance now

Despair Aura V bypasses that.

I don't think it's changed much from the previous match.
Ainz still has his prior knowledge
Ainz use Time stop, Penetrate Magic(since reinhard have resistance) + True death or whatever (reinhard dies again and again) and Ainz summon soul Eater to absorb reinhard soul.

The reason I'm doing all of that is just for the line "had 24h of prep time" to be deleted because I think it was an overkill
Unless I can do a CRT or any other type of thread just for this line to get deleted, imma do the battle again, so here am i.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Read yourself again.
"In the RZ verse". This magic is not on it
Not that I'll stay with this point, just for you to argue better.

yeah, i am gonna take a bet on that and say that the sword that can fend off temporal bullets of existential erasure, can also probably survive a mid tier deconstruction spell

Via level system, he's level 1. What I argue for is just to nullify Martial arts. Only that.

yeah but yk, Lv 1 players cant hit as hard as Reinhard. stop with the bullshit arguements

Unless he have a KotZ 6th sense, via Ainz also having Stealth Mastery, it just won't happen.

i dont know what KotZ is but to expand on why i think Rein is fine against perfect unknowable
1. Perfect unknowable makes you undetectable to sight, smell or sound. however this same applies to Unseen hands which Old wilhelm can easily combat via sheer skill alone. Reinhard is way above prime Wilhelm + his auto attack blessing which guarantees all hits + his godly instincts probably make it useless

If you're talking about ainz and rein, not the characters on the quote, it was a great and tasty juice of head canon

i think it was clear who i was talking about, so this statement is idiotic

Cool, the invisible guy is invisible...and immune to any eventual Clairvoyance...and is doing magic silently. Unless you argue Ainz would use his persona Dark Hero Momon, he won't be facing Rein in h2h combat.

not clairvoyance at all, its literally his 6th sense which tells him the most optimal thing to do in all situations

My argument is that it bypasses Immortality type 8. Just that. If I'm wrong, ainz have other ways to get Rein to be dead and never alive again.

TGOALID is a death hax resistance negation which is why i think its pretty mid overall. the rest i agree with

Despair Aura V bypasses that.

it doesnt

The reason I'm doing all of that is just for the line "had 24h of prep time" to be deleted because I think it was an overkill
Unless I can do a CRT or any other type of thread just for this line to get deleted, imma do the battle again, so here am i.

Giving AInz prior knowledge is a very debatable stomp too

 

[noninho]

yeah but yk, Lv 1 players cant hit as hard as Reinhard. stop with the bullshit arguements

Here the spoilers go:
There is this guy, Gazef Stronoff, the mightiest human of the human kingdomns yarayarayara. He is powerful, even tho not as much of a Reinhard level, and had a sword that was even more powerful than he knew (and all the kingdom knew about the sword because of a big legend about it, blablabla) because he didn't know all the sword capabilities. Ainz has proven that the sword COULDN'T damage him and outta respect, took him 2 tries to take the sword, even tho he one-shotted Gazef. Yes you can argue that Gazef is not a woooow human being, but the sword is a powerful item (Ainz having interest and claiming the guy didn't know how to use it, proves me so). IMO, Gazef has done enough maybe not to be counted as a, let's say, level 80 for example, but for sure more than lvl 60...and couldn't do shit to him even with the powerful sword. This is the Gazef one-shotting.
My argument you call bullshit, is that for the lack of formal levels in Yggdrasil, even tho Reinhard is strong af, he'd have to ask Od Laguna for a bless to hit him with specifically Martial arts. Ok? OK. Don't think it matters much, so like the argument above, don't think I'll be pushing forward with this point.

i dont know what KotZ is but to expand on why i think Rein is fine against perfect unknowable
1. Perfect unknowable makes you undetectable to sight, smell or sound. however this same applies to Unseen hands which Old wilhelm can easily combat via sheer skill alone. Reinhard is way above prime Wilhelm + his auto attack blessing which guarantees all hits + his godly instincts probably make it useless

I guess you could say so if ainz was coming at him with physical, but as Ainz is prepping a TS (which I don't think would take too long), and after that will make any move, don't think there's nothing to auto-dodge and auto counterattack

not clairvoyance at all, its literally his 6th sense which tells him the most optimal thing to do in all situations

Ok, but you'd really have to say how would this apply if ainz is invisible and casting a silent spell, not coming at him...
If this 6th sense tells the exact location of a invisible thing that's not doing a magic that directly focus on him, please get a statement for so.

TGOALID is a death hax resistance negation which is why i think its pretty mid overall. the rest i agree with

I see it as a starting to making impossible that Od Laguna revives him, maybe I'm not 100% right to claim just that will make Type 8 not functioning anymore, but again, he has more things that impede Reinhard's type 8 from working.

it doesnt

True! It negates type 4, my bad.

Giving AInz prior knowledge is a very debatable stomp too

I don't think so, for starters, storywise he does whatever he can to know everything about the enemy before moving a finger himself.

 

[Antarctic_Icecream]

Here the spoilers go:
There is this guy, Gazef Stronoff, the mightiest human of the human kingdomns yarayarayara. He is powerful, even tho not as much of a Reinhard level, and had a sword that was even more powerful than he knew (and all the kingdom knew about the sword because of a big legend about it, blablabla) because he didn't know all the sword capabilities. Ainz has proven that the sword COULDN'T damage him and outta respect, took him 2 tries to take the sword, even tho he one-shotted Gazef. Yes you can argue that Gazef is not a woooow human being, but the sword is a powerful item (Ainz having interest and claiming the guy didn't know how to use it, proves me so). IMO, Gazef has done enough maybe not to be counted as a, let's say, level 80 for example, but for sure more than lvl 60...and couldn't do shit to him even with the powerful sword. This is the Gazef one-shotting.
My argument you call bullshit, is that for the lack of formal levels in Yggdrasil, even tho Reinhard is strong af, he'd have to ask Od Laguna for a bless to hit him with specifically Martial arts. Ok? OK. Don't think it matters much, so like the argument above, don't think I'll be pushing forward with this point.


I guess you could say so if ainz was coming at him with physical, but as Ainz is prepping a TS (which I don't think would take too long), and after that will make any move, don't think there's nothing to auto-dodge and auto counterattack


Ok, but you'd really have to say how would this apply if ainz is invisible and casting a silent spell, not coming at him...
If this 6th sense tells the exact location of a invisible thing that's not doing a magic that directly focus on him, please get a statement for so.


I see it as a starting to making impossible that Od Laguna revives him, maybe I'm not 100% right to claim just that will make Type 8 not functioning anymore, but again, he has more things that impede Reinhard's type 8 from working.


True! It negates type 4, my bad.


I don't think so, for starters, storywise he does whatever he can to know everything about the enemy before moving a finger himself.

Dude, no way
Gazef isn’t lvl 60-80
I have absolutely no idea where you got that from
The realm of heroes is shown time and time again to be in the 30’s
Yet it’s stated Gazef only reaches it either by using MA buffs or having the four treasures of the kingdom equipped
Razor Edge is special
Ainz also never disproved it couldn’t damage him
He said it could, and warned Cocytus to watch out for it
You can make the argument that the obsidian swords Ainz created have resistance to dura-neg
But anything else goes against the narrative

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Here the spoilers go:
There is this guy, Gazef Stronoff, the mightiest human of the human kingdomns yarayarayara. He is powerful, even tho not as much of a Reinhard level, and had a sword that was even more powerful than he knew (and all the kingdom knew about the sword because of a big legend about it, blablabla) because he didn't know all the sword capabilities. Ainz has proven that the sword COULDN'T damage him and outta respect, took him 2 tries to take the sword, even tho he one-shotted Gazef. Yes you can argue that Gazef is not a woooow human being, but the sword is a powerful item (Ainz having interest and claiming the guy didn't know how to use it, proves me so). IMO, Gazef has done enough maybe not to be counted as a, let's say, level 80 for example, but for sure more than lvl 60...and couldn't do shit to him even with the powerful sword. This is the Gazef one-shotting.
My argument you call bullshit, is that for the lack of formal levels in Yggdrasil, even tho Reinhard is strong af, he'd have to ask Od Laguna for a bless to hit him with specifically Martial arts. Ok? OK. Don't think it matters much, so like the argument above, don't think I'll be pushing forward with this point.

you single handedly nuked all credibility about yourself knowing anything about the Overlord verse. Gazef is canonically lv 30 at his strongest

I guess you could say so if ainz was coming at him with physical, but as Ainz is prepping a TS (which I don't think would take too long), and after that will make any move, don't think there's nothing to auto-dodge and auto counterattack

understandable but Ainz can only stop time for a brief amount of time and he uses that to cut down on his spell activation for the most part, your arguement should be on what spell

Ok, but you'd really have to say how would this apply if ainz is invisible and casting a silent spell, not coming at him...
If this 6th sense tells the exact location of a invisible thing that's not doing a magic that directly focus on him, please get a statement for so.

already explained the skill chain from Old Wilhelm above

I see it as a starting to making impossible that Od Laguna revives him, maybe I'm not 100% right to claim just that will make Type 8 not functioning anymore, but again, he has more things that impede Reinhard's type 8 from working.

thats just you making stuff up, his type 8 wont just stop functioning due to dying once

True! It negates type 4, my bad.


I don't think so, for starters, storywise he does whatever he can to know everything about the enemy before moving a finger himself.

Thats what he normally starts with but keep in mind that Ainz can defeat pretty much anyone with prior knowledge, hence why this matchup was declared a stomp. Although now with the new additions i think speed equalized ainz vs rein should be a lot more usable

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

you single handedly nuked all credibility about yourself knowing anything about the Overlord verse. Gazef is canonically lv 30 at his strongest. mentioned over numerous times in the novels

understandable but Ainz can only stop time for a brief amount of time and he uses that to cut down on his spell activation for the most part, your arguement should be on what spell

already explained the skill chain from Old Wilhelm above

thats just you making stuff up, his type 8 wont just stop functioning due to dying once

Thats what he normally starts with but keep in mind that Ainz can defeat pretty much anyone with prior knowledge, hence why this matchup was declared a stomp. Although now with the new additions i think speed equalized ainz vs rein should be a lot more plausible

 

[Antarctic_Icecream]

you single handedly nuked all credibility about yourself knowing anything about the Overlord verse. Gazef is canonically lv 30 at his strongest

understandable but Ainz can only stop time for a brief amount of time and he uses that to cut down on his spell activation for the most part, your arguement should be on what spell

already explained the skill chain from Old Wilhelm above

thats just you making stuff up, his type 8 wont just stop functioning due to dying once

Thats what he normally starts with but keep in mind that Ainz can defeat pretty much anyone with prior knowledge, hence why this matchup was declared a stomp. Although now with the new additions i think speed equalized ainz vs rein should be a lot more usable

“understandable but Ainz can only stop time for a brief amount of time and he uses that to cut down on his spell activation for the most part, your arguement should be on what spell”

It’s not that brief, Ainz in time-stop was taking his time using it to spawn meteors and form small multi-colored explosions to decorate Zytl’qae like a Christmas Tree
All while reminiscing about his days in YGG
He can also delay another time-stop to automatically cast the moment his normal time-stop ends
Extend magic also exists
Everything else is okay though

 

[noninho]

Dude, no way
Gazef isn’t lvl 60-80
I have absolutely no idea where you got that from
The realm of heroes is shown time and time again to be in the 30’s
Yet it’s stated Gazef only reaches it either by using MA buffs or having the four treasures of the kingdom equipped
Razor Edge is special
Ainz also never disproved it couldn’t damage him
He said it could, and warned Cocytus to watch out for it
You can make the argument that the obsidian swords Ainz created have resistance to dura-neg
But anything else goes against the narrative

Shit, I didn't know that there was narrative for this, i apologyze (got recommended the anime scene I described, and couldn't get time to read beyond volume 5)

thats just you making stuff up, his type 8 wont just stop functioning due to dying once

Read again.

but again, he has more things that impede Reinhard's type 8 from working.

.

hence why this matchup was declared a stomp.

Where and when, please?

understandable but Ainz can only stop time for a brief amount of time and he uses that to cut down on his spell activation for the most part, your arguement should be on what spell

But I've told you that...

TGoALiD+Despair Aura V/Iä Shub-Niggurath+True Death=gg

The magic I meant that wouldn't focus on Reinhard was the TS spell, then he'd combo his instakills and summon soul-eaters
And I don't have any source for "a brief amount" of TS, so that's on you, mate
Again, sorry for the Gazef thing.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Where and when, please?

there are numerous matchups and we have discussed almost all possible scenarios. giving Reinhard prior knowledge doesnt help much since he practically figures things out on the fly anyway whereas Ainz with prior knowledge basically knows how to end Rein instantly. if you dont equalize speed then its a blitz stomp for Reinhard and if you do then Ainz just stomps due to outhaxing him. although the most fair one would be the last one since Rein got more hax upgrades last week and its being added on to his profile, its standard stuff that should have been there from the start.

The magic I meant that wouldn't focus on Reinhard was the TS spell, then he'd combo his instakills and summon soul-eaters
And I don't have any source for "a brief amount" of TS, so that's on you, mate

yeah and that would end up being a stomp becuz Rein cant do anything at all. the fight would just go
TS<<Some death hax that kills Reinhard<<something that keeps him down forever
there wouldnt be a chance for Reinhard to do anything thus making it a stomp

Again, sorry for the Gazef thing.

its fine

 

[noninho]

there are numerous matchups and we have discussed almost all possible scenarios. giving Reinhard prior knowledge doesnt help much since he practically figures things out on the fly anyway whereas Ainz with prior knowledge basically knows how to end Rein instantly. if you dont equalize speed then its a blitz stomp for Reinhard and if you do then Ainz just stomps due to outhaxing him. although the most fair one would be the last one since Rein got more hax upgrades last week and its being added on to his profile, its standard stuff that should have been there from the start.

yeah and that would end up being a stomp becuz Rein cant do anything at all. the fight would just go
TS<<Some death hax that kills Reinhard<<something that keeps him down forever
there wouldnt be a chance for Reinhard to do anything thus making it a stomp

its fine

It that's True, let's make a definitive one

Only = speed, 3km starting distance i think would be fair (since both only state "several kilometers" in range), no prep time, no prior knowledge, in minecraft's flat world

If you agree with that I can alter this OP and we start discussion right here

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

It that's True, let's make a definitive one

Only = speed, 3km starting distance i think would be fair (since both only state "several kilometers" in range), no prep time, no prior knowledge, in minecraft's flat world

If you agree with that I can alter this OP and we start discussion right here

yeah currently this would be the most fair matchup

 

[noninho]

yeah currently this would be the most fair matchup

I'm currently going home, so consider this OP I've written and when I get home imma edit it accordingly

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I'm currently going home, so consider this OP I've written and when I get home imma edit it accordingly

For the most part it did probably go like Ainz trying to use a death hax, it either killing Reinhard or not working and then he comes back and slashes him to death

 

[noninho]

For the most part it did probably go like Ainz trying to use a death hax, it either killing Reinhard or not working and then he comes back and slashes him to death

if Ainz can even try to kill him, he will.
Let's say Ainz just TSs+True Death (which means negging immo 4)
Od Laguna type 8s Reinhard and before he gets a blessing...
...Ainz TSs and True Deaths plus soul-eaters, which means gg for Reinhard

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

if Ainz can even try to kill him, he will.
Let's say Ainz just TSs+True Death (which means negging immo 4)
Od Laguna type 8s Reinhard and before he gets a blessing...
...Ainz TSs and True Deaths plus soul-eaters, which means gg for Reinhard

That requires a very specific set of knowledge to be applicable which Ainz shouldn't have, not to mention his usual death hax starter is grasp heart not true death which requires a minor hand movement and there is no reason to use TS with grasp heart

 

[noninho]

That requires a very specific set of knowledge to be applicable which Ainz shouldn't have

when sensing danger, would be the standard

not to mention his usual death hax starter is grasp heart not true death which requires a minor hand movement and there is no reason to use TS with grasp heart

well, he gets to sense him kilometers away, so i guess he won't try that first thing when this menacing presence comes pseudo-flying until he sees Ainz. Also, Clairvoyance is nulled by Ainz... and i think other immunities and resistances, and eventual questions are answered or asked in the document i've spent some time doing (check it on the OP).

 

[Hanzozeroo]

That requires a very specific set of knowledge to be applicable which Ainz shouldn't have, not to mention his usual death hax starter is grasp heart not true death which requires a minor hand movement and there is no reason to use TS with grasp heart

In Ainz standard tactics he have 5 references start with Time Stop and 2 With GH so yeah Ainz have reason to use TS and follow up with another spell to investigate his opponent's potential weaknesses

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

when sensing danger, would be the standard

He doesnt use TD as standard.

well, he gets to sense him kilometers away, so i guess he won't try that first thing when this menacing presence comes pseudo-flying until he sees Ainz.

Not sure what you mean here

Also, Clairvoyance is nulled by Ainz... and i think other immunities and resistances, and eventual questions are answered or asked in the document i've spent some time doing (check it on the OP).

You dont seem to understand Reinhards powers corrently. Reinhard doesnt use clairvoyance, he just has that via Ram having it. His godly instincts alone are better than it. He also has a ton of automatic defense resistances, dodging skills and immunities that arent directly nulled by Ainz. Such as but is not limited to Auto dodge, Projectile protection, magic resistance of 80%, and his godly intuiton.
Oh and also Ainz needs to apply his clairvoyance negation which he usually doesn't unless he is doing something illegal

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

In Ainz standard tactics he have 5 references start with Time Stop and 2 With GH so yeah Ainz have reason to use TS and follow up with another spell to investigate his opponent's potential weaknesses

True death isnt a spell to investigate reinhards weaknesses in fact he has only used TD in a very specific situation. Also since he uses Time stop mostly to reduce chant time, his spell will activate afterwards meaning there will be a slight gap in his defense where he would be busy processing that data. That time can be 100% utilized by Reinhard to kill him.
Using grasp heart would be ineffective and might lead to a surprise attack from Reinhard instead. Which mind you he will try to get around by most likely killing him again (if he can manage that twice) and since the usual resurrection count in overlord is 2 he would probably have a availability bias of that being reinhards limit.
Which it isn't meaning Reinhard can once again come back and kill him subtly.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

(check it on the OP).

Speaking of your document, its riddled with misinformation so i suggest taking it down or updating it by asking a couple of other people for reference on Reinhards abilities

 

[noninho]

Speaking of your document, its riddled with misinformation so i suggest taking it down or updating it by asking a couple of other people for reference on Reinhards abilities

Cool
Starting by you! imma answer to your arguments later

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Cool
Starting by you! imma answer to your arguments later

Alright we can make a different thread and start point by point by going through with multiple scenarios

 

[noninho]

Alright we can make a different thread and start point by point by going through with multiple scenarios

Why another one?

He doesnt use TD as standard.

Detecting him and seeing how ****** up of a High magical being he is and how fast he's coming, at least TS would be the standard, what would he try later i guess would vary from TD, Grasp Heart or something like that

Not sure what you mean here

again: he could and would sense Reinhard coming and would try dealing with that.

He also has a ton of automatic defense resistances, dodging skills and immunities that arent directly nulled by Ainz.

fortunatelly, he can TS more than Reinhard can resist, and that's not a focused spell so it can ignore all of that and then try some spells until any of them work.

Also since he uses Time stop mostly to reduce chant time, his spell will activate afterwards meaning there will be a slight gap in his defense where he would be busy processing that data. That time can be 100% utilized by Reinhard to kill him.

Ainz is a master strategist, if there's a slight chance that his magic won't kill after the TS ends, he will chain another TS, as it has being pointed out by Antartic_Icecream up here. Also, Reinhard may be powerful enough to one-shot Ainz, but for sure it won't take split-seconds.

Using grasp heart would be ineffective and might lead to a surprise attack from Reinhard instead

Ainz isn't dumb to just see the powerful guy fall and presume he's ultimatelly dead. Also, you and other Reinhard supporters pointed out that his blessings take way too little time to get applied, so Od Laguna should take way little to get him revived again, which gives = speed Ainz enough time to "oh shit" and try again with better methods.

Which it isn't meaning Reinhard can once again come back and kill him subtly.

Wait, haven't you just contradicted yourself?

and since the usual resurrection count in overlord is 2 he would probably have a availability bias of that being reinhards limit.

i'm really towards the idea that if Ainz needs a second try, he'll get the soul-eaters, and then its gg

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Why another one?


Detecting him and seeing how ****** up of a High magical being he is and how fast he's coming, at least TS would be the standard, what would he try later i guess would vary from TD, Grasp Heart or something like that

he has used TD in a very specific situation

again: he could and would sense Reinhard coming and would try dealing with that.

yeah with grasp heart

fortunatelly, he can TS more than Reinhard can resist, and that's not a focused spell so it can ignore all of that and then try some spells until any of them work.



Ainz is a master strategist, if there's a slight chance that his magic won't kill after the TS ends, he will chain another TS, as it has being pointed out by Antartic_Icecream up here. Also, Reinhard may be powerful enough to one-shot Ainz, but for sure it won't take split-seconds.

he will start off with the assumption that his first attack would kill him though which is very unlikely to happen unless its a higher form of death manip like TGOALID. i just realized this but i dont think grasp heart has more than a single layer of DM meaning Reinhard can resist it.

Ainz isn't dumb to just see the powerful guy fall and presume he's ultimatelly dead. Also, you and other Reinhard supporters pointed out that his blessings take way too little time to get applied, so Od Laguna should take way little to get him revived again, which gives = speed Ainz enough time to "oh shit" and try again with better methods.

Reinhard would still have an advantage with that though

Wait, haven't you just contradicted yourself?

how so?

i'm really towards the idea that if Ainz needs a second try, he'll get the soul-eaters, and then its gg

thats optimal play which he isnt likely to pull off right away, in fact its more likely that he will try something higher leveled which ironically has a better chance of being killed by Reinhard. there is a very good chance Ainz would pull his lv 80 demons or above, behind which Ainz would hide and thus giving Reinhard the chance to nuke both him and his summon resulting in his win

 

[noninho]

he will start off with the assumption that his first attack would kill him though which is very unlikely to happen unless its a higher form of death manip like TGOALID.

Yeah, that's true, but it doesn't leave openings enough for Ainz to instantly die.

i just realized this but i dont think grasp heart has more than a single layer of DM meaning Reinhard can resist it.

? no Death Manip Resistance listed, mate.

Reinhard would still have an advantage with that though

how so? Ainz isn't a random anime villain that tries walking away after defeating the guy. Mainly cuz it won't take too long for ainz to feel him alive once again, and since they're equal speed and the surprise element is busted, well, he may have died from just Grasp Heart, but seeing him reviving again (and with the divine energy that may flow, visually or not) he'll stop time and try harder, and i really think TGOALID and true death would be in this case, but probably Soul-eaters too, which is the 100% wincon for him, and for sure is in the 3rd try if the method used in the 2nd isn't enough... and as the weakness part says: "Reinhard can only gain whichever Divine Protection he feels he needs in a specific moment and wishes for, whether it exists or not, he cannot simply manifest any ability he desires", so for you to say "he'll feel that he was victim of TS and will get layered resistance for that" would be very biased...which makes 3rd try more than possible and then Reinhard just dies.

how so?

you're saying that he'll revive and then surprise-one-shot ainz, and then you say right afterwards "Which it isn't meaning Reinhard can once again come back and kill him subtly."...lol

thats optimal play which he isnt likely to pull off right away, in fact its more likely that he will try something higher leveled which ironically has a better chance of being killed by Reinhard.

well, if he revives again, and Ainz knows that he's stronger than his summonings, then he'll only try doing what for sure kills him with more potency then just wrecking his heart, which, as i pointed above, if it's not on the 2nd try is in the 3rd try.

there is a very good chance Ainz would pull his lv 80 demons or above, behind which Ainz would hide and thus giving Reinhard the chance to nuke both him and his summon resulting in his win

why would he do that if he just one-shotted the guy and he just came back (probably with a catchprase lol) as nothing happened? he just felt the guy getting killed and then having life once again, why would he summon things weaker than him to try doing more than that??

 

[Hanzozeroo]

i just realized this but i dont think grasp heart has more than a single layer of DM meaning Reinhard can resist it.

i don't think so Ainz have Instan death Enchanment

And then there were the abilities from his class levels — [Instant Death Magic
Enhancement], [Rite of Darkness], [Undead Aura], [Undead Creation], [Undead Control], [Undead Strengthening], and so on. Vol 1

She was not hurt. In fact, she did not feel anything at all. This was not because she was actively defending against that spell, but
because that spell could not even get through Albedo’s passive magic resistance. It was likely that this was one of her master’s specialties, necromancy,
specifically an instant-death spell. Those types of spells were not only affected by ability scores, passive skills,
special skills, and equipment abilities, but were also affected by resistances gained through levels, penalties, and so on. If they were cast on an opponent of similar level, it would be hard for those spells to have any effects at all if they were not enhanced through any means. Vol 14

So yeah GH can penetrate a resistance