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Sonic the Hedgehog Revisions

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They are characters. And this is how the emeralds work. I'm perfectly with a Varies tier. Meaning no 5-A to anything just "Varies". That's better than dismissing Sonic's Tier 2 feats as outliers when I explained previously in this thread how they are not. Sonic Chronicles shouldn't be used.

And regardless Darkspine Sonic > Super Sonic is a big no-no and again, I already explained why other than being comparable.
 
Can I ask a question:

How many of the people opposing are knowledgeble in Sonic?

Because I've played Sonic I, II, 3, Adventure I and II, Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog and Unleashed, and watched many of the other games. I'm quite aware of how things work.

Also, to refrain my previous point.

https://youtu.be/TDI-mOibA6k?t=782

In the ending to Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos obtains the 7 Chaos Emeralds and drains them of all their power, living them as grey glowless stones. However, since he did this through negative thoughts / emotions (Pure rage and destruction), he didn't truly obtain the Emeralds' power. Sonic, drived by his positive emotions to his friends, is capable of using the drained Emeralds and becoming Super Sonic, and defeating Perfect Chaos.

The Chaos Emeralds were drained of their energies by Chaos, but Sonic was still capable of harnessing greater power than Chaos simply because his emotions were more positive and his will stronger.
 
I've played every single Sonic game. I am a huge fan and love the Blue Blur. Yes that includes Sonic's Schoolhouse and the dreaded Sonic Drift. I put a lot more into this than my health allowed. So yeah how many opponents are actually knowledgeable about Sonic?
 
I'd like to point out that Sonics Tier 2 feats have happened just as frequently as his Tier 5 to 4 feats, in the main games Super Sonic has had eight plot important roles, half of which are where he has his Tier 2 feats (Sonic Rush, Sonic 06, Sonic Rush Adventure, and Sonic Generations)

Then adding on how the Chaos Emeralds are generally treated as one of the most powerful artifacts in the series, also likely being superior to the World Rings, plus the "thoughts into power" statements in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Rush seem to lend a lot of credibility to Tier 2 Super Sonic at his max
 
Also, "use of a very common trope" is not a legitimate argument.

Elder God Demonbane is a walking trope. A Deus Ex Machina, yet we rank him as High 1-A anyways.
 
Okay as someone who needs to say this. It is best to chill out as not everyone is against the suggested changes. However, to ignore the opposing arguments made by other people who is against it will worsen things rather than make it better. Prom's suggestion will help a lot as it will only applied to Super Sonic, not base Sonic.

To being overpushy and being overargumentive will help no one at all so I advise to refrain from being come off as rude or acting all tough if you ask me.

@Cal Dude really? No need to be vulgar about it at least. I think there are some fair points to doing it for Sonic when in Super Sonic form, but other than that, we are all Cool.
 
About the World Rings. People do realize that Darkspine is only powered by 3 rings. So even if the two forces are comparable, we would have the Chaos Emeralds be above Darkspine Sonic.

Still, the Chaos Emeralds being variable makes perfect sense with what is given. The Chaos Emeralds are not even the source of the power, they are simply the servers from thorough which the power is conducted. The power is actually the "Chaos Energy" that the characters produce through their emotions, but can't harness normally.

So the stronger the emotion and will, the greater the resulting power.

With that in mind, it makes perfect sense for Sonic's best feat to be in 06. The Super Sonic in that game comes from the emotion of love, and the intent to save all of existence from being destroyed. It's the strongest emotion and the strongest will, which result in Super Sonic defeating the most powerful character of the Verse.
 
If the Chaos Emeralds do not have a set power level and the amount of strength its users have vary case by case. And this is an actual, explicit, canon concept rather than a well supported theory. Then I'm fine with a variable tier listing Super Sonic's weakest to strongest feats. But I'm not sure whether or not that's truly the case, so I can't support this for certain.
 
@Sans

Uh...Cal was not being rude or vulgar. Trust me, we love each other (friendship!). And we never said everyone was against it. But for those who are. So yeah, please don't blow derail the thread based off a misunderstanding.
 
@Ryu

I explained earlier how this is canon and how it affected the storylines of both Sonic Adventure, Sonic 2006, and Sonic Unleashed.
 
Hmm. So there was actually something ''that made sense'' in Sonic 06. Then I don't mind a variable tier for the chaos emeralds.
 
Anyway, I must go to bed as it is way passed midnight >.>
 
Literally where is the idea that "Chaos Emeralds > World Rings" come from? The World Rings are a one-time powerup that appeared in a single game and AFAIK have zero relation to the Chaos Emeralds both lore-wise and how characters compare them.
 
They are similar to the Chaos Emeralds, such as their ability to enable transformations similar to a super transformation.

The seven world rings and the world rings come in the same colors as the Chaos Emeralds.

IIRC the world rings are just that world's version of the chaos emeralds (to a degree) just like the Sol Dimension and sol emeralds.

It goes like this:

Chaos Emeralds [Mobius]

Time Stones [Little Planet]

Sol Emeralds [Blaze's Dimension]

World Rings [Storybook Worlds]
 
That's a purely baseless assumption. Being similar in nature doesn't remotely mean they're comparable in power.

Do the Chaos Emeralds all represent Hope, Sadness, Rage, Hatred, Joy, Pleasure and Desire? Because the World Rings do, so they're not even really the same thing beyond having the same color and giving transformations.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's one of the most idiotic reasons I've heard for two things being comparable.
 
I should also mention that this "Variable Tier" nonsense has its own significant problems.

How are we supposed to rate Super Sonic level characters who don't have their own feats, like the Metal Overlord or the Nega-Wisp Mother?
 
Sera said in an interview the power sources were all compared and it was stated that outside of the Super Emeralds, they were all equal and more or less alternate versions of the chaos emeralds serving a different purpose. I believe it was the same interview where it was stated the Super Emeralds won't be returning any time soon but I'm not exactly sure.
 
@Ever

Most non Tier 2 Sonic villains who are Super Sonic level are quite easy to rank.

We know thanks to the ARK Cannon and the Final Egg Blaster that the Emeralds when used for evil can star bust and constellation bust.

So

"At least 4-C, likely 4-A"
 
@Ven

Then maybe it can be used, but I'd rather this be cited.

@Matt

I thought the ARK Cannon was only Planet level?

Regardless, I'm still completely, vehemently opposed to the idea of giving Sonic a Variable tier.
 
@Ven

This thread is nearly 200 replies long and my attention span isn't good enough to read through it. The only reason I've heard is the "thoughts into power" nonsense. But why would this restrict Super Sonic's power by literally two degrees of infinity when he's fighting enemies like Perfect Dark Gaia and then instantaneously jump to 2-B just when he's fighting Solaris?

@Matt

Ah.
 
@Ever

It isn't a nonsense. This is the basis of the Chaos Emeralds lore. They aren't even the source of power of Super Sonic. They just channel the power generated by Sonic's emotions. And I explained why Sonic beating Solaris in 06 makes sense.
 
"They just channel the power generated by Sonic's emotions."

And Sonic's "emotions" fluctuate his power by two degrees of infinity just for when the situation calls for it?

And, honest question, if they do that, then how are machines powered by them?
 
Also, this is what you had to say the last time someone tried an upgrade with this.

"Yes, they turn a "Character's thoughts into power", but as far as feats go, they are depicted as being limited in 99% of the time.

Look at every enemy that was defeated with Super forms across the series.

Perfect Chaos, the Biolizard, Metal Overlord, Dark Gaia, Devil Doom, most endgame Eggman Machines.

The best feat any of those ever depicted was Large Planet level, and that is generally consistent with most of the series.

Solaris and Time Eater are the only Tier 2 characters of the Sonic Games, and the later is a Glass Canon in his profile.

We can't simply say "Variable Tier" because of Solaris. Specially since the Chaos Emeralds' power are surpassed by both the Master Emerald and the Super Emeralds, and they have been dried of their power before."

Yes it's outdated in many areas (Glass cannon Time Eater for one), but I don't see why things would have changed since then.
 
@Ever

Yes. The Chaos Energy generated by the thoughts, emotions and wills of the characters fluctuates immensely. It was as its strongest in Sonic 2006 due to reasons I already explained.

They can power-up machines because they do have a baseline power that can be harnessed without the need for positive thoughts and emotions. This is shown and explained in Adventure, after Chaos absorbs "all" of the 7 emeralds' power, living then as glowless grey stones. It is explained that Chaos only absorbed negative energy from the emerald, and that the emeralds' true power can only be obtained true positive emotions. Then Sonic proceeds to become Super Sonic due to his bonds with his friends.

So powerless Chaos Emeralds can still render Sonic > A Perfect Chaos who absorbed "all" of the Emeralds' power, simply because Sonic had positive thoughts and emotions.
 
Can we just keep it at 4-C to 4-A then? I have no idea why this is such a big deal and unfortunately I cannot argue for Tier 2 as extensively as Sera can. Seriously...
 
@Matt

Again, I don't have the time or patience to read through this thread, so if you could just reiterate what you said about 06, that'd be swell.

That question was more curiosity on how it worked on my part. And last I checked, the thing with Perfect Chaos never mentioned anything about "positive emotions", but rather positive energy, which is an entirely different thing.

The Chaos Emeralds weren't powerless if Tails specifically said that Chaos only absorbed the Chaos Emeralds' negative energy.

@Ven

Because we've gone years calling Sonic's Tier 2 feats outliers. It's going to be hard for some people (Including myself) to change their minds.
 
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