Sonic the Hedgehog Revisions

[Sera_EX]

No infinite speed. He does not naturally exist in a void beyond spacetime.

 

[Sans_With_Shades]

Well how else can this get resolved? I don't want to label the fight between Solaris and Sonic as PIS, but if we don't have any other options, then PIS.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe Unknown would fit better? Also I have a question because I can be wrong but this was on my mind concerning Solaris and I saw this stated somewhere here.

Isnt existing in the past, present and future simuntaneously very different from BEING the past, present and future simuntaneously? For example, you can have 3 of yourselves in the past, present and future all at once but you're still only you and exist normally as only yourself in those 3 points of time. Whereas, being the past, present and future all at once would mean you are literally the timelines themselves and exist everywhere in each timeline. That sounds vastly different from the former.

Didnt Solaris only have 3 specific forms that were in 3 different points of time and that it required all of them to be targeted at the same time? And not just be one with said timelines and exist everywhere?

If the latter, that sounds unknown. But if the former, that is very possible with FTL/MFTL speed as you are targetting someone who is just in that point of time but is not BEING that point of time.

 

[LSL7699]

Super Sonic should be

At least 5-B, possibly 5-A | 4-B| Likely High 4-A | At most Low 2-C

 

[Sans_With_Shades]

@Kukui I think that only further make it PIS instead as the fact that Solaris literally has the chance to kill everyone when sonic was dead before he got revived by the chaos Emerald make it all the more reasonable to deny the speed upgrades (I actually hate to say that).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So because this thread has become ungodly long, can someone please tell me what the current proposed revisions are?

 

[Sera_EX]

@Azzy

Classic: 8-A (His feat in the ending of CD)

Adventure Sonic: 7-B (Feats of fighting Iblis. I think he has some other Tier 7 feats)

Modern Sonic: At least High 6-A, likely 5-B (Can fight an Egg Robot powered up by a planet's entire biosphere, can somewhat hurt Dark Gaia by attacking its eyes and kill Perfect Chaos)

Super Sonic: Variable. At least 4-C, At most 2-C

Hyper Sonic: Unknown, regarded as the most powerful Sonic transformation.

However Classic Sonic busted a mountain in CD, so...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Sera

Classic sounds fine, though his mountain feat may yield slightly higher results depending on how much of it he destroyed.

Adventure Sonic also seems fine.

Modern Sonic's High 6-A seems fine, too (I think I agreed to this, before). I don't agree with the 5-B. He specifically hurts Dark Gaia by targeting weak points and is entirely unable to hurt it, otherwise. Light Gaia is perfectly capable of just straight up fist-fighting and grappling with Dark Gaia, but Sonic has to hit its open eyes (which as everyone can attest, is a lot more vulnerable than the rest of you) to do any sort of damage.

I have some opinions on Perfect Chaos. When introduced, the Chaos Emeralds were portrayed at a drastically lower level of power within the games, not really having any Tier 5 or above feats until Adventure 2. I would be fine retroactively scaling Perfect Chaos to more powerful CE feats later on, but if we do so, then Modern Sonic does not scale to him, and the fight in Generations must be taken as pure plot. There is no logical way to make base Sonic scale to the combined power of the seven Emeralds. If we do decided to scale him to Perfect Chaos and treat the fight as legit, we can only really use Perfect Chaos' own feats or the feats of the Emeralds prior to Adventure, which iirc is around casual City level, and that is from Chaos himself.

Variable Super Sonic seems good, though I'd say his range should logically be "At least 5-B, at most 2-C" as opposed to "At least 4-C, likely 2-C". This is considering stuff like the Final Hazard, which was a planet level threat, and required two Super foms (one of which nealy died) to stop.

Unknown seems like the only way we can really go with Hyper Sonic.

 

[Sera_EX]

I agree with you as well about Base Sonic and about Perfect Chaos/the emeralds.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Cool. But yeah, pretty much everything else I'd be fine with.

Mostly just more minor stuff to clear up like if we scale Perfect Chaos to the Emeralds and consider the Generations fight only there for the sake of plot, or if we have the fight count and scale Chaos only to his own feats and Emerald feats up to that time.

Though iirc, Perfect Chaos was supposedly able to destroy all life on the planet, but I can't remember where this was stated.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I highly disagree with giving any of the super forms anything above 4-A. The problem with Solaris scaling is the fact that the super forms were targeting a weak spot. It was explicitly stated that the core was Solaris' conciousness and that it was a weak spot. Due to exploitation of said weak spot, Super forms don't scale to him. Sonic Chronicles and the Dark Brotherhood's supposed "universe shaking feat" with the Master Emerald is just a statement with no actual feats to back it up and it was downright hyperbole. The Sonic Rush Adventure game also hardly have a so called "universal boss" despite the literal boss having an attack called "Planet Buster Laser" which Eggman literally comments on as being insane when critcizing Nega for releasing that kind of energy. The Time Eater was literally another circumstance of events when exploiting a weak spot which is backed up by the fact (like Solaris), it was the only thing Sonic could target to even damage the Time Eater. The Sonic Rush game is a bit more difficult to explain, but I can explain it rather easily. Chaos Emeralds/Sol Emeralds are the only way to harness Chaos Energy in the games that is from the universe meaning that they're practically linked. When the Sol Emeralds were introduced into Sonic's world, space-time distortions via casuality. The 2 universe were being drawn together because of the Sol Emeralds missing from Blaze's world as a whole. I can only see 4-A at best for the super forms tbh because the high ends are often taken out of context.

 

[Sera_EX]

Stop using games that aren't part of the main series. They are contradictory. I've been over this '''six times''' already in this one thread. Not going over it again as it has finally been accepted.

 

[Sans_With_Shades]

@Ploz Not Causality per say as it could be through just space and time manipulation as well.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Stop using games that aren't part of the main series. They are contradictory. I've been over this six times already in this one thread. Not going over it again as it has finally been accepted.

There are literally only 5 things that point to a universal or above Super Sonic at that would be Solaris scaling, Time Eater scaling, Imperator Ix shaking the universe supposedly once he obtained the Master Emerald, Egg Wizard scaling, and Egg Salamander scaling. I was just addressing them each because all 5 in my opinion have flaws.

 

[Sera_EX]

And others have already pointed that out and I explained it. This thread is now over 300 posts. Now we need to focus on how to handle the revision. Solaris makes sense. Sonic only attacked his weakspot in pbase two because that was when it appeared (his consciousness).

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

And others have already pointed that out and I explained it. This thread is now over 300 posts. Now we need to focus on how to handle the revision. Solaris makes sense. Sonic only attacked his weakspot in pbase two because that was when it appeared (his consciousness).

Super Sonic himself wasn't even tanking universal attacks either. The eye of Solaris is what specifically was going to destroy all of the timelines.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Ok why are we talking like hitting a weak point invalids the feat…i mean even if it was it should be no weaker than the rest of the body that's like saying the dudes a glass canon which at cases like Zelda they are not

 

[Adamjensen2030]

Ok why are we talking like hitting a weak point invalids the feat…i mean even if it was it should be no weaker than the rest of the body that's like saying the dudes a glass canon which at cases like Zelda they are not

I agree.

 

[Antvasima]

So, what has been decided here? I do not have the time to read so many posts.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, please remember to update other character profiles accordingly, and possibly rename them, so it is clarified which incarnation of the character that they are referring to.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Can someone link the mountain busting feat in CD? I never actually beat CD.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why can't we scale Perfect Chaos from the Emerald Feats in the direct sequels done by the same director? Not doing so is completely dishonest because we do that with every fiction. We treat the thing as as one whole, not each installment as an isolated island. Perfect Chaos scales from the ARK And Final Egg Blaster feats, specially since he dried up the emeralds while the later two were only casually powered by them.

Secondly: Weakspots are game mechanics. Moving on.

Thirdly: Sonic Vs. Perfect Chaos in Generations is PIS.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

That is one of the two courses of action, and it is the one which doesn't involve scaling Modern Sonic to Perfect Chaos.

PC would get scaled to the Emeralds, Modern Sonic would not scale to PC.

This is opposed to Modern Sonic scaling to PC, and PC not scaling to the Emeralds. Modern Sonic doesn't even really need this anyway since he's High 6-A without it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Azzy

Scale Perfect Chaos to the Emeralds since Star level Emeralds come by direct sequels with the same director and main designer.

Don't scale Base Sonic to Chaos.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

That's what I said, yes.

 

[Snoop_Fraud]

bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So, how about I make a second thread summarizing what was agreed?

 

[Sans_With_Shades]

@Matt Yeah that will help... If you feel like doing so, then do it when you have time.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems like a good idea, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Remember to link to it here afterwards.