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Sonic the Hedgehog Revisions
- Thread starter Sera_EX
- Start date
- Status
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How? She explained it quite well.
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I get that, but it is one thing to buy that Sonic at his strongest ever peak is 2-C.
It's another to buy that he is Immeasurable / Temporaly Omnipresent. Dats ridiculous.
It's another to buy that he is Immeasurable / Temporaly Omnipresent. Dats ridiculous.
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It's part of battle. Whether someone buys it or not is irrelevant.
"As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras."
You cannot do that with MFTL+ speed.
"As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras."
You cannot do that with MFTL+ speed.
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Let's wait to hear what Sera thinks before we decide that the speed thing is plot-induced silliness. Granted, I think it is and have voiced such earlier in the thread, but it'd be a just courtesy to wait to hear what the lady who went through all this effort to get us this far has to say.
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Btw, if we do scale Sonic to Solaris, a Multi-Universal rating may be more likely. Cropfist found several Sonic timelines.
- The main timeline
- Sonic CD's bad future
- the Sonic 06 timeline
- the 10 alternate endings of Shadow the Hedgehog.
- Sonic Rush - Blaze's realm.
- Sonic and the Black Knight - World of Camelot.
- Sonic and the Secret Rings - Arabian Nights.
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That won't be necessary and it'd be too much.
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I could see Super Sonic being Low 2-C at his peak, but I doubt he could be scaled to Solaris.
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Those reasons were already countered, Cropfist.
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@Ven If the reasons against the changes being effectively countered for the 2-C part, the infinite/immeasurable speed is questionable as it must meet one of the following requirements for infinite speed.
Speed
Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count.)
You don't have proof on that so yeah I don't think it will count as a legit justification for infinite speed.
Speed
Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count.)
You don't have proof on that so yeah I don't think it will count as a legit justification for infinite speed.
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@VenomElite, let me get this straight with the Super Forms, because no one has objected the base form stats, so i shall not discuss those. Sorry for the long reply :
- Sonic in his super form scales to the tier 2's of the verse, due to positive emotions fluncuating heavily between this tier level and the lower tier levels , which power up the chaos emeralds heavily . There ie easily an vast amount more of positive emotion in the instances of fighting tier 2's, as they have to have not only determination, but hope as well, which is one of the strongest emotions overall . This actually makes sense due to the canon inconsistency of the forms, and due to the usage of several non-canon games, this became confusing when it should not have been.
- At his max, would be somewhat/almost comparable to Solaris due to being powered up by the totality of the aforementioned emotions, plus love, which would give the chaos emerald an massive boost of positive emotions . This to me also makes sense, as Sonic's emotions would vary heavily depending on many differing variables.
- When Eggman is using negative emotions and desires to power himself up with the emeralds, he does not show anywhere near the amount of raw power Sonic does when powered up. This is because of the aforementioned positivity, and negativity actually decreases the effectiveness of the emeralds . This also makes sense, as in almost every instance concerning the lower tiers, it was Eggman using their powers.
- All differing sets of emeralds / items that have 7 of them are comparable to each other via WoG ( Which would mean that the Chaos Emeralds are comparable to World Rings, who also have this level of power of an tier 2 )
- Using an immense amount of positive emotions, Super Sonic defeated 4 Tier 2's ( Time Eater, Solaris , Time Wizard, and Alf. Five if you could Egg Salamander ) . When bad emotions were used by the villians, he always managed to beat them due to his positive emotions powering himself up to those heights using the emeralds, and being overall superior.due to it. I also agree with this.
- Speed is somehat an issue, and I will stay neutral about that. That is for you all to decide . But do remember that if they were MFTL+ , you know how difficult it would be for them to canonically defeat Solaris in the first place ? @Matthew, this is not me agreeing to either MFTL+ or Infinite, just another viewpoint to use for this fiery debate.
- @Cropfist , where Time Eater is concerned, ALL of that is Game Mechanics. With Solaris, if they fought him head to head , i do not think they would have lost, they would have been fighting him for essentially eons. Unfortunately, they do not have that sort of time. They needed to find an fast way to defeat him. In every iteration of sonic games, being in super forms has an set time limit, IF i am not mistaken .
- Sonic in his super form scales to the tier 2's of the verse, due to positive emotions fluncuating heavily between this tier level and the lower tier levels , which power up the chaos emeralds heavily . There ie easily an vast amount more of positive emotion in the instances of fighting tier 2's, as they have to have not only determination, but hope as well, which is one of the strongest emotions overall . This actually makes sense due to the canon inconsistency of the forms, and due to the usage of several non-canon games, this became confusing when it should not have been.
- At his max, would be somewhat/almost comparable to Solaris due to being powered up by the totality of the aforementioned emotions, plus love, which would give the chaos emerald an massive boost of positive emotions . This to me also makes sense, as Sonic's emotions would vary heavily depending on many differing variables.
- When Eggman is using negative emotions and desires to power himself up with the emeralds, he does not show anywhere near the amount of raw power Sonic does when powered up. This is because of the aforementioned positivity, and negativity actually decreases the effectiveness of the emeralds . This also makes sense, as in almost every instance concerning the lower tiers, it was Eggman using their powers.
- All differing sets of emeralds / items that have 7 of them are comparable to each other via WoG ( Which would mean that the Chaos Emeralds are comparable to World Rings, who also have this level of power of an tier 2 )
- Using an immense amount of positive emotions, Super Sonic defeated 4 Tier 2's ( Time Eater, Solaris , Time Wizard, and Alf. Five if you could Egg Salamander ) . When bad emotions were used by the villians, he always managed to beat them due to his positive emotions powering himself up to those heights using the emeralds, and being overall superior.due to it. I also agree with this.
- Speed is somehat an issue, and I will stay neutral about that. That is for you all to decide . But do remember that if they were MFTL+ , you know how difficult it would be for them to canonically defeat Solaris in the first place ? @Matthew, this is not me agreeing to either MFTL+ or Infinite, just another viewpoint to use for this fiery debate.
- @Cropfist , where Time Eater is concerned, ALL of that is Game Mechanics. With Solaris, if they fought him head to head , i do not think they would have lost, they would have been fighting him for essentially eons. Unfortunately, they do not have that sort of time. They needed to find an fast way to defeat him. In every iteration of sonic games, being in super forms has an set time limit, IF i am not mistaken .
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"As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras."
Can't the Gurren Lagann cast do that? They're not immeasurable, they just get "able to strike an opponent at every point in time".
Can't the Gurren Lagann cast do that? They're not immeasurable, they just get "able to strike an opponent at every point in time".
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Then explain how exactly did Sonic beat the Time Eater? Even if it was supposely all game mechanics as you suggested there, it had to do with the respective game's plot that feature the Time Eater.
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The weakspots are game mechanics, unless you want to argue that all of Link's opponents are much stronger than he is and he only wins by attacking their weakpoints.
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This is starting to get annoying. Read my posts fully or not at all. I said immeasurable speed. Not infinite.Sans With Shades said:
@Prom
Was that against an omnipresent being though?
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No, but it was still through, to my understanding, every point in time. It's not necessarily speed, as far as I know, it's just hax.
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That doesn't change anything, Crop.
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So are the Zelda weakpoints.
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@Ven Okay? Just chill man and get some rest. I mean seriously the quote only refer to Solaris and him alone. In addition with that, it will be labeled as PIS as I don't see Sonic being Immeasurable for that matter.
Edit: Perhap we should close this thread for a later time until Sera gets back so that way no more input is getting received on this very thread.
Edit: Perhap we should close this thread for a later time until Sera gets back so that way no more input is getting received on this very thread.
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@Prom
Okay then. I guess hax is preferable then. But Tier 2 is supported with all of the evidence Sera revealed earlier.
Okay then. I guess hax is preferable then. But Tier 2 is supported with all of the evidence Sera revealed earlier.
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Yes, I don't have any issues with Tier 2 Sonic.
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Neither do I, though I think scaling to Solaris may be a bit much.
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- Thread starter
- #269
It's immeasurable speed. What else could it possibly be? When has hax ever been attributed to speed? We don't say someone has hax if they create a timeline, it's rated as Low 2-C attack potency. Haruhi Suzumiya comes to mind (she's 2-C but you get what I mean).
Super Sonic in 06 scales to Solaris. Period. It's the most powerful incarnation to date and I already listed in various replies why.
I am also upset how so easily people are ready to dismiss this without even having proper research under their belt. Just "I think this, and I think that." It's not disproving my posts so why even bother clogging up the thread if you are not knowledgeable in this subject. It does nothing but waste everyone's time.
Please, the thread has gotten very long and most of this was accepted anyway.
Super Sonic in 06 scales to Solaris. Period. It's the most powerful incarnation to date and I already listed in various replies why.
I am also upset how so easily people are ready to dismiss this without even having proper research under their belt. Just "I think this, and I think that." It's not disproving my posts so why even bother clogging up the thread if you are not knowledgeable in this subject. It does nothing but waste everyone's time.
Please, the thread has gotten very long and most of this was accepted anyway.
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@Sera If Solaris get the Immeasurable speed rating, he will be able to speed blitz Sonic with ease, yet Sonic defeated Solaris with the Super Sonic form so I think it will cause problems if we do change the speed ratings.
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Oh. *sigh* Sorry as my time here is very limited. I guess my judgement is getting affected here so my bad.
Edit: I am getting awfully tired so perhap I should sleep if anything.
Edit 2: Okay saying that the Super Sonic forms in 06 is Immeasurable is now going a bit too far. I think everyone may have agree with the Tier 2 sonic as well as a varied tiering rate for Super Sonic, but that I ain't buying that reasoning at all.
Edit: I am getting awfully tired so perhap I should sleep if anything.
Edit 2: Okay saying that the Super Sonic forms in 06 is Immeasurable is now going a bit too far. I think everyone may have agree with the Tier 2 sonic as well as a varied tiering rate for Super Sonic, but that I ain't buying that reasoning at all.
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Okay this thread is seriously long......
Perhaps its better to make a continued one if no one here has come to a conclusion?
Perhaps its better to make a continued one if no one here has come to a conclusion?
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@Kukui It will be heavily advised to stop at this point. Mostly Everyone including me has reach the conclusion that Tier 2 rating for Super Sonic is fine, but the Immeasurable speed rating is currently being questioned as of now.
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I agree with the two of you. Literally the same thing happened for Bloom's upgrades, Kukui.
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I'm just saying that other characters who do the same thing (attacking people at every point in time) aren't rated as Immeasurable, so we need to discuss that and what our standards are for it.
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During the fight with Solaris, weren't Sonic, Shadow and Silver literally each Omnipresent throughout one third of the timeline (One in all the past, one in all the present, and one in all the future)? I thought I remembered reading something about that.
Also, attacking at every point in time is definitely not Immeasurable, or else every Tier 2 being has it.
Also, attacking at every point in time is definitely not Immeasurable, or else every Tier 2 being has it.
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- Thread starter
- #278
@Ever
Yes. Ven already posted this:
"As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras."
You litrtally cannot do that with just MFTL/MFTL+ speed.
Yes. Ven already posted this:
"As a transcendent life form, Solaris possesses a unique state of existence that lets him exist in the past, present and future simultaneously, making him omnipresent throughout time and virtually impossible to defeat unless he is attacked simultaneously in all eras."
You litrtally cannot do that with just MFTL/MFTL+ speed.
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I'm pretty sure this would be a really weird form of Nigh-Omnipresence.
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Here is my suggestion:
However, the problem with the Infinite Speed is to travel anywhere instantly part as well.
- Super Sonic: Infinite Speed
However, the problem with the Infinite Speed is to travel anywhere instantly part as well.
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