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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

You know I've been sitting on this opinion for quite a hot minute and, after rewatching all the cutscenes of the game, I think that Infinite should be stronger then Sonic was during Forces but before the IDW run and into Frontiers.

"Why?" You may be wondering? Because while Sonic was able to do a lot better then he did against Infinite after six months of imprisonment, Infinite was able to defeat Sonic again but didn't kill him because he saw it as not being worth the effort, with Sonic even noting that he had to find the "secret of Infinite's power". And while it is true that Sonic and the Rookie defeated Infinite at the end of the game, I think it should be noted that this was because Infinite was explicitly not at full strength due to his Phantom Ruby being weakened as stated by both Tails and even Infinite himself before duking it out with Sonic and the Rookie. Of course one could argue that it's irrelevant to the scaling since Sonic assisted in the defeat of the Death Egg Robot Which is kind of stupid that Sonic grew to defeat the Death Egg Robot yet sought fit to weaken Infinite's source of power before challenging him again, but Forces is a terrible game so I won't waste my breath, but I think at the same time Infinite should be stronger then Pre Death Egg Robot Sonic and was defeated because he was weakened prior to the fight.

But I'll let y'all decide if what I've shown is note worthy of some small changes or not
 
ShakeResounding said:
It is imo, having a clearly-defined scaling chain always helps and Infinite being > Pre-DER (Death Egg Robot) as you mentioned should be more concretely said on his page
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I agree, though I kind of worry that it would be seen as redundant because Sonic did grow to damage and keep up with DER after defeating Infinite so one could say it'd be redundant. But I have a potential idea if you think it has merit.

Considering that the Death Egg Robot was ultimately destroyed with a Triple Boost from Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic, and the Rookie, would you be against the idea of the Death Egg Robot being stronger then them individually but not collectively during Forces? I mean Sonic should relatively scale to DER since he damaged and kept up with it, and obviously he is stronger then it by far now, but my thought was that it helps get rid of the awkwardness of Sonic being unable to defeat a full powered Infinite but then went on to defeat something stronger then it and acknowledging that he needed some help to defeat DER. This is just my head canon and it may not make sense to you, but that's just how I would explain the sudden shift prior to Frontiers if you get my thought process behind it you know?
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Considering that the Death Egg Robot was ultimately destroyed with a Triple Boost from Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic, and the Rookie, would you be against the idea of the Death Egg Robot being stronger then them individually but not collectively during Forces? I mean Sonic should relatively scale to DER since he damaged and kept up with it, and obviously he is stronger then it by far now, but my thought was that it helps get rid of the awkwardness of Sonic being unable to defeat a full powered Infinite but then went on to defeat something stronger then it and acknowledging that he needed some help to defeat DER. This is just my head canon and it may not make sense to you, but that's just how I would explain the sudden shift prior to Frontiers if you get my thought process behind it you know?
Click to expand...
Nah, and in fact the page for the Forces DER implies that the Triple Boost was a necessity iirc, so I agree that it's equal above any one of them but below the combined effort of all 3.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Nah, and in fact the page for the Forces DER implies that the Triple Boost was a necessity iirc, so I agree that it's equal above any one of them but below the combined effort of all 3.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just took a look at DER's profile and it states in his durability section: "Able to take sustained fire from the Burst Wispon, which demolish Egg Pawns in one shot. Its inner-mecha can take an onslaught of attacks from Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic, and The Avatar, though it was ultimately destroyed by a "Triple Boost".

So yeah I think that since there's no AP upgrades in question, Infinite and the Death Egg Robot's justifications would just need some rewriting to reflect the brought up points and parts of the scaling chain IMO would just need to happen later in chronological order then in a short time frame. Is there anything else that would be changed if Infinite and DER are stronger then Forces Sonic or is what I brought up the most relevant points? Just want to make sure since, probably some time tomorrow, I might do a small CRT for it but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything before doing so
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
You know I've been sitting on this opinion for quite a hot minute and, after rewatching all the cutscenes of the game, I think that Infinite should be stronger then Sonic was during Forces but before the IDW run and into Frontiers.

"Why?" You may be wondering? Because while Sonic was able to do a lot better then he did against Infinite after six months of imprisonment, Infinite was able to defeat Sonic again but didn't kill him because he saw it as not being worth the effort, with Sonic even noting that he had to find the "secret of Infinite's power". And while it is true that Sonic and the Rookie defeated Infinite at the end of the game, I think it should be noted that this was because Infinite was explicitly not at full strength due to his Phantom Ruby being weakened as stated by both Tails and even Infinite himself before duking it out with Sonic and the Rookie. Of course one could argue that it's irrelevant to the scaling since Sonic assisted in the defeat of the Death Egg Robot Which is kind of stupid that Sonic grew to defeat the Death Egg Robot yet sought fit to weaken Infinite's source of power before challenging him again, but Forces is a terrible game so I won't waste my breath, but I think at the same time Infinite should be stronger then Pre Death Egg Robot Sonic and was defeated because he was weakened prior to the fight.

But I'll let y'all decide if what I've shown is note worthy of some small changes or not
Click to expand...
infinite says that the phantom ruby recharged in the middle of the fight, so by all accounts, they fought with a full powered Infinite in the end
 
omegabronic said:
infinite says that the phantom ruby recharged in the middle of the fight, so by all accounts, they fought with a full powered Infinite in the end
Click to expand...
Huh, that's actually a pretty good point that I missed there. Then wait a minute, why would the writers make it a story point to have Sonic and his friends try weakening Infinite when the guy can just recharge the Ruby on a whim? And I know Sonic's got really decent AD, but **** I realize now that whole thing sub plot was a big waste of time.

Once again, I have found a reason to hate this ******* game....the only reason why it's tolerable is due to useful scaling from it, otherwise I deplore its existence
 
Theuser789 said:
I thought Infinite being stronger than Sonic for most of Forces was already accepted.
Click to expand...
Well currently on Infinite's profile, it's stated that he defeated Pre-Forces Sonic with ease but nothing about him being stronger then Sonic through most of Forces' run time. That's why I brought up those clips of Infinite defeating Sonic in their second rematch and Sonic seeing it fit to weaken Infinite's source of power.

One snag I didn't catch on to or knew about, however, was that Infinite was able to recharge the Phantom Ruby back to full capacity yet lost to Sonic and the Rookie as @omegabronic showed yesterday. Personally I'd argue that like the Death Egg Robot, Infinite was stronger then Sonic individually but weaker then him and the Rookie combined when they used teamwork to defeat him with a Double Boost...but that's kind of head canon so I'd rather hear from other people and their take on the scaling matter
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Well currently on Infinite's profile, it's stated that he defeated Pre-Forces Sonic with ease but nothing about him being stronger then Sonic through most of Forces' run time. That's why I brought up those clips of Infinite defeating Sonic in their second rematch and Sonic seeing it fit to weaken Infinite's source of power.

One snag I didn't catch on to or knew about, however, was that Infinite was able to recharge the Phantom Ruby back to full capacity yet lost to Sonic and the Rookie as @omegabronic showed yesterday. Personally I'd argue that like the Death Egg Robot, Infinite was stronger then Sonic individually but weaker then him and the Rookie combined when they used teamwork to defeat him with a Double Boost...but that's kind of head canon so I'd rather hear from other people and their take on the scaling matter
Click to expand...
i mean......they would still scale since they can harm him individually, maybe downscale, but nothing too big for them to not scale regardless
 
omegabronic said:
i mean......they would still scale since they can harm him individually, maybe downscale, but nothing too big for them to not scale regardless
Click to expand...
Yeah I should've probably clarified that a little. I do agree that they should downscale since they can damage him individually, just that Infinite should be a bit more strong since they had to defeat him with a Double Boost in the end.

And the gap shouldn't be too wide so, to use Sonic's profile as an example, you could write something like: "Was able to harm and damage Infinite alongside the Avatar, but needed to use a Double Boost to defeat the former." And for Infinite, I'd add in a new justification using the points brought up along the lines of this: "Defeated Sonic during their second fight, the former who stated that he grows stronger with every second that passes, and inspired Sonic to weaken his source of power. When at full power by the end, needed to be beaten by a Double Boost from Sonic and the Avatar."

Of course they'd need some tweaking to make more grammatical sense but that's what came to mind when writing it, what do you think Omega?
 
Theuser789 said:
This feels like a small change that you don't need a CRT to do.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm probably making it a bigger deal then it should be, huh? I just figured that, if it was already accepted, then it wouldn't be too much trouble to put that down in Infinite's profile or tweaking Sonic and DER's justification to align with the information that's been presented if that makes sense.

Still, if it is really a small change then I'll refrain from a CRT since I'm probably hyper fixated on something which changes only a little bit
 
Talking about this, shouldn´t Super Shadow and Super Silver (And pretty much every single super form user) have Time travel due to they being capable of travelling to the future and the past to defeat Solaris?
 
Agnaa said:
Can anyone confirm whether the blog Accelerated_Evolution made the verse page link to is actually accepted or not? I couldn't find any staff members saying that in the comments of it.
Click to expand...
Yep, it's been the blog used for about 2-ish years now, it predates the enforcement of the rule which is why it lacks comments. I've even tried to get them to do so to avoid this exact happenstance, but go figure

I think it should be reverted for the simple fact that it's literally already linked in the verse page, though, under explanation pages.
 
Looking at the old blog that we used to explain the characters statistics i notice something interesting:

"The Classic Timeline scales from this Sonic CD feat for destroying a couple of chain links that were supporting the Little Planet, this was calced at Small Country level. This scales to: Classic Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Fang the Sniper, Mighty the Armadillo, Metal Sonic, Silver Sonic, Mecha Sonic, Death Egg Robot and other Robotnick Creations. It is important to note that Knuckles Chaotix is not canon as the Chaotix team were later retconned in Heroes, Knuckles being the guardian of the theme park island and etc."

In which CRT was Knuckles Chaotix accepted as canon?
 
Executor_N0 said:
Any expectations from the Sonic x Shadow Generations leaks?
Click to expand...
I'm not expecting anything until we see the official announcement trailer at the State of Play tomorrow, it's a 24/7 policy of mine to never take leaks seriously until we see such things officially happening in the first place.

Though if the leaks are true.....why Generations, of all the games that could use a remaster? If you were to ask me, I think Unleashed deserves the treatment more. Unleashed is accessible through the original platforms they were released on, backwards compatibility through Xbox One and Series S/X, or through RPCS3 and Xenia if you got a powerful enough PC to emulate the game. Not to mention that Unleashed's reputation has become more positive over the years, so I think it'd be cool to see it be given a second chance to shine.
 
TBH Generations could use having a definitive edition of sorts, namely having all levels from the console and 3DS versions, and maybe some levels from the Advance trilogy and even games that came after Generations.

But chances are they'll pull a Colors again and be a glorified port.
 
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