Some Ups and Downs for Touhou Project

[Pixy]

As for the dream world stuff, dreams and reality being "two sides of the same coin" or whatever doesn't in any way prove that the Dream World itself is somehow "low multiversal" or 2-C or whatever. Dreams can have any "size", and they are ultimately "just dreams" according to ZUN, after all. We need clear indications that the Dream World contains multiple infinitely universe-sized realms within it for that to be the case.

Does the "real" moon or whatever exist in the Dream World? I need to sort some things out first.

Dream will never consider as two sides of the same coin
The Two site of the same coin is only about Reality and Illusion
Cuz before Gensokyo begin....

Youkai and Human still live in the same world Til the time pass Human become more powerful and deny of Existence of Youkai and Youkai become Forgotten
And that why Gensokyo begin the place where Illusion and Forgotten thing will appear in Gensokyo

Illusion = The things that birth from Folklore, Urban Legend , Human Feared and Reality Common Sense can't use to this

Reality = the normal things that born by cause and effect

talk about dream world creature's Whatever Creature live in there it'll never be friendly to any poor soul that enter their home And will be Aggressive for hunting them

Also from my research wherever Dream's Creature live or stay their behavior will still same

insane, Aggressive , Don't talk much , kinda rude and always fast asking for fight

Here scans about Dream Dweller will aggressive against those poor soul

Scans About Dream Creature's behavior

 

[Pixy]

The descriptions of dreams as fundamentally "less real" by ZUN might mean they take far less power/"energy" to sustain, and conversely far less power/"energy" to destroy. Because again, they are ultimately "just dreams" after all.

SCANS For this immediately where you get this ?

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Nothing in that quote is particularly indicative of "reality" meaning "the entire Touhou cosmology" in that context. "Reality" could just as easily mean "ordinary, mundane terrestrial life" here.

It is Shown (link shows the Palace of the Earth's spirits ) that dreams can have other locations, again...like the LotBD, which contains many doors that lead to other realties, let's also not forget Gensokyo itself is also a location in the dream world. This seems to be revering back to how Prom said you're splitting hairs for the debate, I don't get it.

But that hasn't been proven yet. No single dream has ever yet been proven to be infinite in this thread, so the safest and most conservative assumption is that they're all finite until proven otherwise.

You seem to be ignoring the fact if a dream has a location or factor within the cosmology it scales to all that, inductively , the former hell scan I just posted is more evidence of an actual infinite realm like Hell to exist. In case you seem to be misunderstanding the general argument for this, The Dream world is a 2-C structure for

• being called the opposite side of a coin to reality, which is established as having multiple otherworlds therefore multiple separate universes. (Cosmology)
• For having the existence of several dreams at once which are directly said to be realities which can have a realm that's infinite, like hell. (The feat)

In what way in particular? It just seems, ironically for your friend @FujiwaraYesMokou over there, that you're dismissing WoG merely because it conflicts with your preconceived notions.

Why would my notions be preconceived. I DID post evidence for my previous claims. I DID show how it is equal to reality more than once. ZUN's WoG cannot be used because despite him being the author, his words do not meet the proper criteria to match what he gives for inverse material. Let's say hypothetically I make a fictional work that thematically only shows 1 universe, nothing more, nothing less, and then out of nowhere I make an official tweet and say, "hey my universe is made of Aleph numbers and goes beyond an uncountable amount of dimensions", see the problem here?

Point is, his WoG statement is far more inconsistent then his representation of it inside his work, therefore it's unusable for this particular situation.

But the "unreality" of dreams outranks any small nature of "reality" they might have

Which is contradicted by how they are verbatim said to be realties unto themselves. It's ALL reality.

, if we go by what ZUN says, and therefore even if we find an infinitely big dream realm, it would simply "mean less" than an infinitely big space in the physical world, to the point where that "infinitely big dream realm" might barely even rank tier 11-C in any realistic sense.

Thankfully that's not the case here, at all. If the dream itself has a 4-D world and it's beings inside (3-D) are fully capable of equally matching their "real" version, then it certainly leaves no room for an 11-C, which is what, 0 dimensional? Yeah no, that is a really flawed argument, it has regular directions of movement in the first place, length, width and height, you'd practically be saying the realm itself isn't real whatsoever, which we know, is wrong.

No, I'm talking about infinite size here. I'm pretty sure that "spatial extent = temporal extent" laws don't really apply to dream stuff.

I'm confused, is there a basis for your assumption?

Doesn't sound like a disembodied spirit stuck in an endless dream where she has to make a choice to break out of it.

^^

「ところで、ドッペルゲンガーだという幻想郷の菫子君は、今どうなっているのかい？」		"By the way, what's happening right now to Gensokyo's Sumireko, the one we've been calling a doppelganger?"
「ええ、それでしたら夢の菫子に肉体を奪われて、身動きとれずに霊魂の状態でいますが」		"Well, the dream Sumireko took her body, so she's a disembodied spirit, unable to move. Why?"

It sounds more like some weird philosophical "quantum dream" Schrödinger's cat juju where Sumireko has to make a choice which of her physical manifestations is the real one, but can only make that choice whenever she goes to sleep.

It was solved by fighting that dream version, after that, a new one manifests:

――そこから『宇佐見菫子失踪実験　対策本部』は『宇佐見菫子ドッペルゲンガー救出本部』に名前を変えて、作戦会議を続けた。		After that, the "Sumireko Usami's Disappearance Task Force Headquarters" changed its name to "Saving Sumireko Usami's Doppelganger Task Force Headquarters" and continued their strategizing.
と言っても、夢の世界に自由に手を出すことができるのは一人しか居なかったため、作戦内容のほとんどは彼女任せだったが。		That said, since only one of them could freely interact with the dream world, their strategies mostly involved just leaving it to her.
「――夢の中で彼女を倒して、新しい夢の菫子が生まれるのを待つのが一番シンプルな作戦ですが、彼女は不・思・議・なことにべらぼうに強くて一筋縄にはいきません。彼女は自分が本物だと思い込んでいるので、決して倒されないという強い意志が働いているのかも知れませんし、もしかしたら裏で誰かが手を……」		"While the simplest plan would be to defeat her in the dream world and wait for a new dream Sumireko to manifest, for some mysterious reason reason she's become absurdly powerful, and ordinary methods will no longer work. Perhaps her belief that she's the real one has give her intense feelings about not wanting to be defeated, or perhaps someone else has been working from behind the scenes."

There wasn't really anything clear to dispute about this, so I apologize if I missed your point entirely.

No, I'm talking about whether the real real moon, the physical moon, somehow existed in the Dream World. Since it seems that there was only a dream replica of the Moon inside the Dream World, and not the real real moon, I guess the answer to that is "no".

Still want to know what for though ^^'?

until it firmly established that multiple Low 2-C "dreams" exist within the Dream World, it will remain Low 2-C.

which is why I wanted to wait for another time about this topic ^_^;!!

And of course, no offense from this, Prom should have a final verdict on the tiering.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Anyway, I have to go sleep, I have sociology class tomorrow and it's 11:20 PM ^_^''.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Thank you Guardian_Doge for all the help here.
Also sorry for kinda forcing you into this...

 

[Antvasima]

I trust @Promestein's sense of judgement.

What have you accepted and rejected here?

 

[Malomtek]

It is Shown (link shows the Palace of the Earth's spirits ) that dreams can have other locations, again...like the LotBD, which contains many doors that lead to other realties, let's also not forget Gensokyo itself is also a location in the dream world. This seems to be revering back to how Prom said you're splitting hairs for the debate, I don't get it.

I'm pretty sure that "Danmaku Dream" is just a video game stage name that doesn't actually mean anything in particular.

You seem to be ignoring the fact if a dream has a location or factor within the cosmology it scales to all that, inductively , the former hell scan I just posted is more evidence of an actual infinite realm like Hell to exist.

Why?

How does a dream somehow existing within a location within Touhouland mean that the dream itself scales to that location's size? That sounds like a complete non-sequitur.

The Dream world is a 2-C structure for

• being called the opposite side of a coin to reality, which is established as having multiple otherworlds therefore multiple separate universes. (Cosmology)

I'm pretty sure that at most, that refers to the physical universe, as dreams are constantly juxtaposed with physical reality in the Touhou narrative. None of the other otherworlds are necessarily universe-sized (Gensokyo certainly isn't), and I'm pretty sure the Dream World doesn't really "touch" them anyway (I've certainly never heard of someone taking a dream trip to Hell or Heaven in Touhou), so they don't matter.

Why would my notions be preconceived. I DID post evidence for my previous claims. I DID show how it is equal to reality more than once. ZUN's WoG cannot be used because despite him being the author, his words do not meet the proper criteria to match what he gives for inverse material. Let's say hypothetically I make a fictional work that thematically only shows 1 universe, nothing more, nothing less, and then out of nowhere I make an official tweet and say, "hey my universe is made of Aleph numbers and goes beyond an uncountable amount of dimensions", see the problem here?

Point is, his WoG statement is far more inconsistent then his representation of it inside his work, therefore it's unusable for this particular situation.

Dreams being "just" that, and fundamentally "less real" than reality itself, is never actually contradicted by the setting itself. Dreams being "the other side" of the universe doesn't necessarily make them equally real at all.

There's a reason the dream-replica of the Lunar Capital was called the "fake Lunar Capital", after all.

Which is contradicted by how they are verbatim said to be realties unto themselves. It's ALL reality.

Wrong. Dreams were said to collectively make up a single other "reality", meaning that no one dream is a "reality" unto itself.

It's not "ALL reality", no matter how much you might wish it to be so.

Thankfully that's not the case here, at all. If the dream itself has a 4-D world and it's beings inside (3-D) are fully capable of equally matching their "real" version, then it certainly leaves no room for an 11-C, which is what, 0 dimensional? Yeah no, that is a really flawed argument, it has regular directions of movement in the first place, length, width and height, you'd practically be saying the realm itself isn't real whatsoever, which we know, is wrong.

I didn't mean that dreams are literally tier 11-C in Touhou, I was talking about the ethereal unreality of dreams in Touhouland making them essentially unusable for tiering purposes, because they could actually be much lower than meets the eye.

I'm confused, is there a basis for your assumption?

The fact that dreams are abstract, metaphysical, and essentially only exist in the mind, so they shouldn't really have any dimensioned spatial or temporal component to them.

^^

「ところで、ドッペルゲンガーだという幻想郷の菫子君は、今どうなっているのかい？」	"By the way, what's happening right now to Gensokyo's Sumireko, the one we've been calling a doppelganger?"
「ええ、それでしたら夢の菫子に肉体を奪われて、身動きとれずに霊魂の状態でいますが」	"Well, the dream Sumireko took her body, so she's a disembodied spirit, unable to move. Why?"

It was solved by fighting that dream version, after that, a new one manifests:

――そこから『宇佐見菫子失踪実験　対策本部』は『宇佐見菫子ドッペルゲンガー救出本部』に名前を変えて、作戦会議を続けた。	After that, the "Sumireko Usami's Disappearance Task Force Headquarters" changed its name to "Saving Sumireko Usami's Doppelganger Task Force Headquarters" and continued their strategizing.
と言っても、夢の世界に自由に手を出すことができるのは一人しか居なかったため、作戦内容のほとんどは彼女任せだったが。	That said, since only one of them could freely interact with the dream world, their strategies mostly involved just leaving it to her.
「――夢の中で彼女を倒して、新しい夢の菫子が生まれるのを待つのが一番シンプルな作戦ですが、彼女は不・思・議・なことにべらぼうに強くて一筋縄にはいきません。彼女は自分が本物だと思い込んでいるので、決して倒されないという強い意志が働いているのかも知れませんし、もしかしたら裏で誰かが手を……」	"While the simplest plan would be to defeat her in the dream world and wait for a new dream Sumireko to manifest, for some mysterious reason reason she's become absurdly powerful, and ordinary methods will no longer work. Perhaps her belief that she's the real one has give her intense feelings about not wanting to be defeated, or perhaps someone else has been working from behind the scenes."

There wasn't really anything clear to dispute about this, so I apologize if I missed your point entirely.

Since all that appears to be entirely contradicted by your previous quotes about this, I want the full context. Because it seems that you're just quote-mining and bringing this dialogue out of context.

Prom has already stated she would need to get someone to calc planck reactions, so this femtosecond stuff is irrelevant.

What? When did she say that? She just said that somebody might need to calc the Planck stuff (IIRC), not that she would personally go and get them. Stop mischaracterizing her statements for your agenda.

It doesn't even make the femtosecond stuff "irrelevant" either, as Prom herself explicitly stated that we cannot just go for the higher option just because we feel like it.

Just because Doremy's authority is meaningless doesn't mean the recreations of locations and people in the dream world are 'less real', especially when we have other statements that disprove that.

The "ruler of dream's" authority being ultimately meaningless is proof-positive of dreams being "less real" than reality. Otherwise ruling dreams wouldn't be ultimately meaningless.

You're starting to just go on tangents about how everyone is wrong and you're the only person who knows what the true stats are, while you continually refuse to post any scans to back up your point. Sooner or later, more and more people will stop taking you seriously.

I have no idea what kind of ego you have that makes you think you get to act like this, but it needs to stop. I am not the only one tired of dealing with stuff like this

Are you going to keep up these rants and attempts to attack my character, or are you actually going to debate?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You're actively ignoring the evidence being presented at this point. I do not debate people who refuse to provide evidence or scans for their claims. Everyone else here has done so, so I'm willing to take them more seriously and argue with them on a level playing field. Either catch up with everyone else and start bringing scans and evidence to the table, or stop saying "Debate me! Debate me!" like that's something you're inherently entitled to.

Also, I never said Prom would personally be calcing the planck time stuff. I clearly pointed out that she was saying the math would have to be checked. By who, I don't know. But stop implying I said things I never said.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also "Dreams only exist in the mind"? Are you forgetting that the Dream World is a location numerous characters have physically visited?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Please get a chiropractor, all this stretching will really mess up your back.

That's uncalled

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Fine, fine. I would still like Malomtek to actually post scans that support his arguments rather than just continually insist he's right.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Anyways, these debates about whether or not dreams are realities are pointless considering Prom already believes they are. The issue is if these realities are low 2-C in nature. I am not sure if Prom believes Kaguya's corridor is not valid as a space-time continuum, or if it was simply the context behind its creation that was invalid as a feat. Besides, dreams already would contain recreations of hell, which we know for a fact is infinite, so at bare minimum dreams/the Dream World are H3-A. We simply need to discuss the possibility of dreams being L2-C or higher.

 

[RethPo]

I trust Proteins sense of judgement.

What have you accepted and rejected here?

From proms stance. Seems that she doesnt believe in kaguyas feat being much beyond hax which id agree with.

She doesnt agree with high 3-A to low 2-C and is more for 4-A to 3-B though thinks if were using it it should have better reasoning if re added.
And that the statement "it is said the netherworld is larger than hell today" wasnt said with enough certainty or validation behind it.

Id personally go for 4-A to 3-B, with a possible high 3-A rating only if nobody can come to an agreement on it.

I do agree that unless the statement is accepted as reliable enough, the only other thing that supports high 3-A is creating and absorbing an infinite corridor. And a klein bottle that supposedly has infinite mass in it that doesnt scale to as many characters.

Anyways, these debates about whether or not dreams are realities are pointless considering Prom already believes they are. The issue is if these realities are low 2-C in nature. I am not sure if Prom believes Kaguya's corridor is not valid as a space-time continuum, or if it was simply the context behind its creation that was invalid as a feat. Besides, dreams already would contain recreations of hell, which we know for a fact is infinite, so at bare minimum dreams/the Dream World are H3-A. We simply need to discuss the possibility of dreams being L2-C or higher.

Well going by wiki standards. Illumina has feats actually pretty similar to doremy and gets low 2-C, but the universes themselves arent treat as low 2-C and its because of how she created the entire maginary world... where doremy doesnt really scale to the entirety of dream world at once or anything from what i know, just the dreams themselves.
Though mario also has the same thing with the dream depot but has them as low 2-C universes due to size and i think mention of being alternate dimensions?

So it might depend on the size and if theyre treat as different space times. Or simply the dreams being replecated into that world and thats it.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Dreams themselves are separate realities that contain perfect copies of characters and locations, and likely the entire cosmology. I'm not sure if Prom was contesting that point in particular, just the she wasn't sure that those realities are low 2-C to begin with. Which is why I asked if she thinks Kaguya's corridor counts as an infinite space-time by itself even if the method of creation isn't a valid feat. If it is an infinite space-time continuum, it'd reasonably exist in the Dream World/dreams based on the various scans posted earlier. Even if that's not accepted, we still know that hell exists in dreams, which gets us H3-A at minimum.

Also I don't remember if Doremy has any attacks that use multiple dreams at once, though based on her current AP justification it seems like she does. There's also the 'controls the dreams of everyone dreaming' thing but we don't know if she can do so all at once. To me it seems like dream stuff should grant a 'low 2-C, possibly 2-C' rating, which is what I was originally advocating for before everyone else accepted a flat 2-C rating (well, before Saikou and Malomtek showed up at least).

 

[Promestein]

Is every dream necessarily Low 2-C? Sure, some may be, but that doesn't mean each of these dreams are Low 2-C.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Gotcha! What page are you using for reference? It's hard to navigate these pages sometimes, is there a chart for this?

Its based on what I said earlier in the thread. Lemme get it for you:

(Planck instant reaction speed)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-ups-and-downs-for-touhou-project.125345/page-8#post-4230908

(Two ends for Kaguya’s instant feat; Femtosecond from in-series statement and Planck instant to match the irl description of instant and Latency song name)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-ups-and-downs-for-touhou-project.125345/page-8#post-4230957

(Instant scientific definition is not zero time)
https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-ups-and-downs-for-touhou-project.125345/post-4227162
https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-ups-and-downs-for-touhou-project.125345/post-4227185

@Promestein I hope this helps with the Kaguya speed thing because I seriously want the speed stuff at least sorted out. I have no qualms on what gets accepted for AP.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Doremy being able to control the dreams of every single person dreaming would certainly imply that she can control the dreams that are low 2-C the same way she does for every other dream. Otherwise this ability wouldn't be stated as extending to everyone who dreams. The numerous statements saying that dreams and reality are one and the same are generally referring to dreams in general, not just the Dream World, so it doesn't make sense to me that these dreams would be missing significant parts of the cosmology.

 

[Malomtek]

Also "Dreams only exist in the mind"? Are you forgetting that the Dream World is a location numerous characters have physically visited?

A weird type of metaphysical dimensional travel which doesn't actually mean anything.

You're actively ignoring the evidence being presented at this point. I do not debate people who refuse to provide evidence or scans for their claims. Everyone else here has done so, so I'm willing to take them more seriously and argue with them on a level playing field. Either catch up with everyone else and start bringing scans and evidence to the table, or stop saying "Debate me! Debate me!" like that's something you're inherently entitled to.

Why do you and so many others in this thread keep squawking "scans! scans! scans!"?. I'm just arguing my interpretation of the available evidence, facts, and information already presented. I don't need further scans when my own evidence is generally the stuff you people already bring up.

That's uncalled

That's extremely tame compared to what I'm used to. Her barking doesn't matter to me, although her deletion of that quote is rather amusing to me.

 

[Malomtek]

Is every dream necessarily Low 2-C? Sure, some may be, but that doesn't mean each of these dreams are Low 2-C.

I don't think any of the dreams have actually been established to be Low 2-C thus far.

I certainly haven't seen the dream-replica of Avici Hell or the Netherworld, and I'm pretty sure that afterlife stuff is exempt from dream-replication or whatever in general.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Because literally every other person here has scans at their disposal, has been willing to post said scans, and is more than willing to provide evidence of their claims. You can look back at this page alone and find numerous scans, none of which are from you. If you are unwilling to provide the same degree of evidence that everyone else does, I have no reason to continue having serious debates with you.

What? If afterlives are unable to be recreated in dreams, prove it. Once again you make a claim with no evidence to back it up. You've essentially been arguing from belief this entire thread. Also, it would really help if you would actually read the scans posted, which provide numerous pieces of evidence that support dreams being low 2-C, and possibly even scaling to the entirety of the Touhou cosmology.

 

[Malomtek]

Dreams themselves are separate realities that contain perfect copies of characters and locations, and likely the entire cosmology.

Didn't either you or somebody else say that Gensokyo itself exists in the dream world?

I was wondering where you guys got that, since the residents of Gensokyo don't seem all that worried about bumping into their dream-replicas.

What? If afterlives are unable to be recreated in dreams, prove it.

Why are you asking me to prove a negative? You should instead have to prove if afterlife realms are able to be recreated in dreams. Considering that we never hear of any dream-replicas of the netherworld, heaven, or hell, I don't think that would be an easy task for you.

 

[Pixy]

Why do you and so many others in this thread keep squawking "scans! scans! scans!"?. I'm just arguing my interpretation of the available evidence, facts, and information already presented. I don't need further scans when my own evidence is generally the stuff you people already bring up.

What kind of WTF is this ? Those Scans are from the scan's owner who give the scans for prove their words
Not Yours !!! What the hell ? You can't be a guy who don't give any scans for prove your words Then Claim those scans that from other people is yours !!!

What the hell is that kind of logic inside your brain !?

 

[Malomtek]

What kind of WTF is this ? Those Scans are from the scans owner who give the scans for prove their words
Not Yours !!! What the hell ? You can't be a guy who don't give any scans for prove your words Then Claim those scans that from other people is yours !!!

What the hell is that type of logic inside your brain !?

@Antvasima can you deal with this guy? He doesn't seem to be calming down any time soon.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It doesn't matter if your claim is a positive or a negative. You still need evidence to back it up. I cannot sit here and claim "Touhou isn't 4-A/3-B!" and refuse to provide evidence simply because it's a negative. You are not exempt from the standards applied to other members.

Again, if you read the scans posted, you would learn that dreams are recreations of reality, and they contain the same locations and individuals as their real world counterparts. This is just ignoring what's been handed to you on a silver platter.

If you like, I could watch a playthrough of Violet Detector and make note of all the locations that make an appearance, since you seem unwilling to do any research yourself.

And trying to get users banned because they're sick of putting up with your nonsense is ridiculous. Cut it out.

 

[Pixy]

@Antvasima can you deal with this guy? He doesn't seem to be calming down any time soon.

Think Mal Think !!! Those Scans are from different owner who spend their time for finding info to prove their words
And what kind of reason !? You claims those scans are proving your words !? while you don't show any of your own Scans !?

 

[Promestein]

Nothing Pixy's done is banworthy, though they aren't at all contributing to the thread. Let's chill out and stop splitting hairs over nonsense, yeah? There's more important things to dwell on and other angles to use.

 

[Malomtek]

Again, if you read the scans posted, you would learn that dreams are recreations of reality, and they contain the same locations and individuals as their real world counterparts. This is just ignoring what's been handed to you on a silver platter.

Nothing about the rather vague "dreams and reality are the same" proves that dreams contain 1:1 recreations of reality.

And trying to get users banned because they're sick of putting up with your nonsense is ridiculous. Cut it out.

Considering what you and others tried to do against me in the RVR thread because of a short comic I made, the irony is thick here. I hope @Promestein understands as well. And I never said I wanted Pixy to specifically be banned either.

Think Mal Think !!! Those Scans are from different owner who spend their time for finding info to prove their words
And what kind of reason !? You claims those scans are proving your words !? why you don't show any of your own Scans !?

Can you fix your terrible English? You're just sounding incomprehensible right now.

 

[Malomtek]

Nothing Pixy's done is banworthy, though they aren't at all contributing to the thread. Let's chill out and stop splitting hairs over nonsense, yeah? There's more important things to dwell on and other angles to use.

What else can be dwelt on and what other angles can/should be used? I legitimately don't know what else we can be talking about at this point, as this thread has gone through literally everything else ad nauseum.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Quit insulting others because they do not speak english as well as you do. It's pathetic.

Except we also have Reisen's statement to back up that yes, dream versions of things are 1:1 recreations. Why would that apply to living beings, but exclude locations? Where is your proof that your personal interpretation of that statement is correct when there is evidence that contradicts what you believe?

 

[Pixy]

Can you fix your terrible English? You're just sounding incomprehensible right now.

Oh I'm losing !!

Using Card : Your english is terrible I can't read it

Seriously mate stop using this joke or I will cap my comment and asking other people is that hard to read
And we'll get the anwser

this is 2nd times now You using this joke

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

As an aside, would it be for the best to remove Malomtek from this thread (assuming that's possible)? He has done nothing but stonewall every single claim I and others make, while providing nothing in the way of evidence and acting disrespectful to other members. By his own admission, he is arguing based solely on his personal interpretation, which is clearly arguing from belief.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What are Promestein thoughts about the argument of Doremy being able to control all dreams including the L2-C ones?

Also, it already was said several times to you guys chill a bit, I understand that CRTs regarding up/downs are controversial, but a toxic CRT doesn't helps, neither the UP side or the Down side, so, if you guys wants good results in the CRT, please, be more polite?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I would like to. But I believe the best way to do that is to remove someone who has done nothing but argue from belief, and will continue to do so.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Also, can someone give again the scan of she being able to control all dreams?

 

[Malomtek]

Quit insulting others because they do not speak english as well as you do. It's pathetic.

I'm not even insulting Pixy, I'm just telling him that he needs to fix his English, because it's bad English.

Oh I'm losing !!

Using Card : Your english is terrible I can't read it

Seriously mate stop using this joke or I will cap my comment and asking other people is that hard to read
And we'll get the anwser

this is 2nd times now You using this joke

I'm not "joking", your English is legitimately terrible, and it makes whatever arguments you have sound incomprehensible.

Except we also have Reisen's statement to back up that yes, dream versions of things are 1:1 recreations. Why would that apply to living beings, but exclude locations?

Why would we assume that because dream-replications can "apply" to living beings, then they necessarily "apply" to afterlife locations as well? These things do not follow.

As an aside, would it be for the best to remove Malomtek from this thread (assuming that's possible)? He has done nothing but stonewall every single claim I and others make, while providing nothing in the way of evidence and acting disrespectful to other members. By his own admission, he is arguing based solely on his personal interpretation, which is clearly arguing from belief.

I explicitly said that my evidence is the stuff you guys already brought up in the very last sentence of your screenshot. I'm not just "arguing from belief" here, but you are indeed using the "fallacy fallacy" against me though, ironically enough.

Also, it already was said several times to you guys chill a bit, I understand that CRTs regarding up/downs are controversial, but a toxic CRT doesn't helps, neither the UP side or the Down side, so, if you guys wants good results in the CRT, please, be more polite?

I'm being as polite as I can, but these people keep insisting on trying to scream me down and trying to get mods to censor me. It's unreal.

Also, can someone give again the scan of she being able to control all dreams?

Don't expect one. Because if these people haven't been able to fork up such a scan up after 8 pages of this thread, such a scan almost certainly doesn't even exist.

 

[Antvasima]

Nothing Pixy's done is banworthy, though they aren't at all contributing to the thread. Let's chill out and stop splitting hairs over nonsense, yeah? There's more important things to dwell on and other angles to use.

Ditto. Everybody here should try to calm down and be polite.

 

[Malomtek]

Ditto. Everybody here should try to calm down and be polite.

Pixy seems to insist on not contributing anything to the thread and acting aggressively towards me personally, which comes from the fact that he has openly admitted to personally hating me. It is almost certain that the other Touhou supporters in this thread (@FujiwaraYesMokou, @Shmooply, @NothingToDebateWith) share Pixy's views in personally hating me as well, which I believe should be noted by the staff here. I'm being as polite as I can here, but these people insist on trying to (verbally) aggress on me, whether passively or actively.

I think Pixy needs to be removed from this thread for his own sake, if nothing else.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Making fun of someone's poor english is incredibly shitty. You're acting like a child.

This was not even in reference to the Netherworld. It was a statement regarding the fact that if a location appears in a dream, it would logically be the equivalent of the real world version because we know the same can be said for living beings. No mention of afterlives was made.

You do not get to take other people's evidence and then use them for yourself. That's not how this works. You need your own evidence to support your own claims. So go and find it rather than just interpret what other people post however you wish, and then claim you 'debunked' them. And again, basing your arguments solely off your interpretations is the definition of arguing from belief. It doesn't matter what is being 'interpreted' in that case. You need solid evidence.

Also, Guardian_Doge has told me he will respond to matters regarding the Dream World after work, so I would appreciate it if we waited for him.

As was already stated by Prom, Pixy has not done anything banworthy. And if you truly believe everyone here hates you, then you can easily rectify this by not arguing from belief and posting your own scans. Given how you've treated several members of this thread, they would have very good reasons to dislike you.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Why would we assume that because dream-replications can "apply" to living beings, then they necessarily "apply" to afterlife locations as well? These things do not follow.

Because like I showed in the scan I had sent, former hell which was an afterlife, had a location.
I’ll make a detailed reply later today, I’m currently working and have swim practice at 3 pm PST.

 

[Pixy]

Pixy seems to insist on not contributing anything to the thread and acting aggressively towards me personally, which comes from the fact that he has openly admitted to personally hating me. It is almost certain that the other Touhou supporters in this thread (@FujiwaraYesMokou, @Shmooply, @NothingToDebateWith) share Pixy's views in personally hating me as well, which I believe should be noted by the staff here.

I think Pixy needs to be removed from this thread for his own sake, if nothing else.

Are you're sure ? other dabater share my view ? Excuse me mate !? You didn't remember We met in Rule Violation Report yesterday ?
And I already explain how I feel to you yesterday

And what's wrong with you !? Steal other people's scans Why ? Tell me the good reason why ?
I don't understand