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Some Random One Piece CRT

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Damage3245 said:
If the argument is the same amount of stone, then why aren't you comparing it to the feat where he actually regenerates just his arm?
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Misspoke, heck, it's supposed to be even more.
You're supposed to put the majority of your body into a punch (regular fighting knowledge), which is why he always throws his body every time he punches.
Damage3245 said:
A close-up of Pica simply breathing does not prove to me that he used more AP to punch than to regenerate his torso + arm. It's not like we get a close-up of him during the regeneration to prove one way or the other.
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Pica was saying full sentences while he was regenerating with no issues, while when he punched, he took a deep breath, and he even screamed when his arm was being destroyed twice.

Regenerating: Talking casually
Punching and getting punched: Effort.
Damage3245 said:
As for Newton's Law here and them shattering the arm - that can simply be down to the way in which they're inflicting damage. Two characters significantly smaller than Pica are inflicting their AP in a much more focused way than the entire energy of Pica's punch being spread out across his entire fist. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me that their attacks would be more effective at damaging him; like the difference between you punching a flat surface and you punching a knife.
Click to expand...
And they destroyed the entire arm to the point where it reached his shoulder.
A knife is a sharp object which needs to make contact before it attacks.
They both demolished his arm with SHOCKWAVES. They didn't even make contact and they destroyed his arm. Unless you tell me that a knife can produce shockwaves that can penetrate skin, idk.
Damage3245 said:
Anyway, I don't recall anything about the stone Pica controls being made more durable than normal. So why isn't it possible that Pica simply punch with less force than what it would take to shatter his arm?
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So Pica can pull Megatons of TNT while holding back using regular stone without his arm breaking?
 
You're supposed to put the majority of your body into a punch (regular fighting knowledge), which is why he always throws his body every time he punches.
Click to expand...

Speed is also a relevant factor. For the regeneration all of Pica's mass if assumed to be moving at the same speed in order to reform back into place. That isn't the case with a punch where his fist is obviously travelling a further distance in the same timeframe than most of his body.

Pica was saying full sentences while he was regenerating with no issues, while when he punched, he took a deep breath, and he even screamed when his arm was being destroyed twice.
Click to expand...

Everything Pica said in those pages there is before he started regenerating.

I'm not sure what him screaming has to do with anything.

Regenerating: Talking casually
Punching and getting punched: Effort.
Click to expand...

He didn't talk during the regeneration. And I don't believe that him breathing after punching is an indication of more AP being used here.

And they destroyed the entire arm to the point where it reached his shoulder.
A knife is a sharp object which needs to make contact before it attacks.
They both demolished his arm with SHOCKWAVES. They didn't even make contact and they destroyed his arm. Unless you tell me that a knife can produce shockwaves that can penetrate skin, idk.
Click to expand...

Well, I doubt a knife could do that IRL. No telling with fiction though.

So Pica can pull Megatons of TNT while holding back using regular stone without his arm breaking?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm just saying that we have a calc for what it would take to fragment his arm. We don't have a calc for the feat of him actually punching with that stone arm.

When it comes to the choice of the two calcs, I think the calc of them shattering the stone is superior to scaling the durability of it to a completely different feat from Pica.
 
Damage3245 said:
Everything Pica said in those pages there is before he started regenerating.
Click to expand...
Top right, look at his shoulder, he's shaking, which means something's happening to the golem, whc
Damage3245 said:
I'm not sure what him screaming has to do with anything.
Click to expand...
Support
Damage3245 said:
He didn't talk during the regeneration. And I don't believe that him breathing after punching is an indication of more AP being used here.
Click to expand...
Look above, and what else could that mean?
Damage3245 said:
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm just saying that we have a calc for what it would take to fragment his arm. We don't have a calc for the feat of him actually punching with that stone arm.

When it comes to the choice of the two calcs, I think the calc of them shattering the stone is superior to scaling the durability of it to a completely different feat from Pica.
Click to expand...
Next comment
 
KingTempest said:
Should we discuss scaling here or in another thread?
Also, sorry for getting a little heated above
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No worries. I felt a little heated too.

As for the scaling, I think we ought to put a sandbox together of all the Low Tier Post-Timeskip characters ratings and justifications (just AP/Striking Strength/Durability) and judge which profiles need changing and updating the most.
 
Damage3245 said:
No worries. I felt a little heated too.

As for the scaling, I think we ought to put a sandbox together of all the Low Tier Post-Timeskip characters ratings and justifications (just AP/Striking Strength/Durability) and judge which profiles need changing and updating the most.
Click to expand...
I still have this from the last thread
vsbattles.fandom.com

KingTempest16/One Piece Dressrosa Revision

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

This'll revise a lot of people, not just low tiers
 
Ok, so here's my simple scaling.

No Haki Post-Colosseum Chinjao and Elizabello II scale to half of the feat as of now.
Lao G scales to Post-Colosseum Chinjao for fighting him for a good amount of time,

No Haki Sai should scale above Base Lao G for being able to deflect his amped form. A support to that is how him w/ Haki overpowered Post-Colosseum Chinjao w/ Haki, and Chinjao was using his strongest attack while Sai wasn't (Sai didn't use the drill dragon nail at the moment of stopping Chinjao). Sai > Lao G

Baby 5 scales to No Haki Sai. Buffalo's Durability scales to Nami's lightning which could knock out Baby 5. Usopp scales to Buffalo for knocking him out with his rocks.
Gladius scales to Chinjao for hurting him with an explosive and he scales to Baby 5 for hurting her with a regular pistol, which is consistent with the scaling.
Cavendish scales to Gladius for fighting him.
Base Luffy scales to Cavendish for matching his swordsmanship.
Bellamy scales for fighting Luffy and could harm him, albeit getting one shot later.

Ideo scales to No Haki Sai for matching him.
Dellinger scales to Ideo for bodying him.

Hakuba scales to 2x Cavendish, which means that Robin scales.

Machvise, Brook, Leo, Giolla, Hajrudin, Nami and Usopp's physicals, and Caesar need justifications.

These are those that scale to half of Pica that I know of.
 
Usopp scales to Buffalo for knocking him out with his rocks.
Click to expand...

Biggest possible issue with that is that Buffalo was already hit pretty hard by Nami's lightning even though he wasn't unconscious. So it presumably wouldn't have been as difficult to knock him out then.
 
Since Usopp's fighting style depends a lot on the various types of weapons and ammo he uses, we could give him a Varies rating and mention his more promiment feats like:

Attack Potency: Varies (Uses various types of weapons and special ammunition [see list below]), at most X level (Inflicted damage on Buffalo and Caeser Clown with projectiles from his Kuro Kabuto slingshot)

?
 
Damage3245 said:
Since Usopp's fighting style depends a lot on the various types of weapons and ammo he uses, we could give him a Varies rating and mention his more promiment feats like:

Attack Potency: Varies (Uses various types of weapons and special ammunition [see list below]), at most X level (Inflicted damage on Buffalo and Caeser Clown with projectiles from his Kuro Kabuto slingshot)

?
Click to expand...
Nice.
He has another feat though w/ the dragon.
But varies is fine
 
KingTempest said:
He used no pills during this portion.

It's a fair assessment except the Usopp one. Usopp was shivering in fear from Hody and comparing him to Arlong of all people...
Everything else looks fine, but the > Usopp should stay
Click to expand...
In all honesty, the fact Arlong is only High 8-C whilst Usopp is Low 7-B is a joke. Canonically, Arlong might still be able to fight Usopp and win if he can get close. But obviously, we can't really prove this (other than feat-by-feat comparison instead of scaling)

KingTempest said:
"I thought I hit him pretty hard too" maybe not his all, but it was a lot, and he was unfazed by it

I quote
Screen_Shot_2021-04-27_at_9.30.34_PM.png
Click to expand...
Still, Luffy's statement does imply he held back by an unknown margin. Just wanted to point that out before scaling Chinjao to a single punch when we only see them clashing with Haki afterwards.

I know about the statement Chinjao made, just that it's still related to his stamina (even if this statement meant his AP decreased, which it doesn't, but i'm neutral). It doesn't really mean his durability lowered anyways. Lao G should at least still scale from Non-Haki Chinjao since he was able to make him bleed while in Base, then took him out after transforming.
  • I would honestly prefer putting something under Chinjao's stamina that clarifies this, but his AP/Dura would still be in the same tier as his non-Haki stats (Which I disagree scaling from G2 Luffy until I see more evidence).
And either way, Sai's AP would only scale to Chinjao's AP (with Drill head + Haki) for his Drill... leg and Haki, and Lao G can't possibly scale from this for the simple fact he got one-shot.
  • Basically: Sai AP (Haki + Drill) > Chinjao AP (Haki + Drill) >> Lao G Transformed AP/Dura > Lao G Transformed AP/Dura > Chinjao (Base) > Sai (Base) = Baby 5. In my opinion.
----

I wont be able to participate in this discussion simply due to availability, but I'll just leave this here since those are my thoughts.
 
CinCameron20 said:
In all honesty, the fact Arlong is only High 8-C whilst Usopp is Low 7-B is a joke. Canonically, Arlong might still be able to fight Usopp and win if he can get close. But obviously, we can't really prove this (other than feat-by-feat comparison instead of scaling)
Click to expand...
Fishmen have the strength of 10 men.
CP9's Rokushiki users have the strength of 100 men.
Moria has the strength by 1000.
The gap is smaller than we think.
CinCameron20 said:
Still, Luffy's statement does imply he held back by an unknown margin. Just wanted to point that out before scaling Chinjao to a single punch when we only see them clashing with Haki afterwards.
Click to expand...
That's fair. He also sent base Luffy flying back though and matched an attack here (doesn't look like he used Haki).
CinCameron20 said:
I know about the statement Chinjao made, just that it's still related to his stamina (even if this statement meant his AP decreased, which it doesn't, but i'm neutral). It doesn't really mean his durability lowered anyways. Lao G should at least still scale from Non-Haki Chinjao since he was able to make him bleed while in Base, then took him out after transforming.
  • I would honestly prefer putting something under Chinjao's stamina that clarifies this, but his AP/Dura would still be in the same tier as his non-Haki stats (Which I disagree scaling from G2 Luffy until I see more evidence).
Click to expand...
I'd still not just put it for stamina. It also says his illness has affected him even more after the years, and that's the same illness which has made him weaker over time is the same illness that got worse after Luffy's fight.
CinCameron20 said:
And either way, Sai's AP would only scale to Chinjao's AP (with Drill head + Haki) for his Drill... leg and Haki, and Lao G can't possibly scale from this for the simple fact he got one-shot.
  • Basically: Sai AP (Haki + Drill) > Chinjao AP (Haki + Drill) >> Lao G Transformed AP/Dura > Lao G Transformed AP/Dura > Chinjao (Base) > Sai (Base) = Baby 5. In my opinion.
Click to expand...
I was scaling full power Lao G ≥ Post Colosseum/No Haki Chinjao for hurting him, then I was scaling base Sai above base Lao G for deflecting/kicking his transformed attack, which wouldn't make him ~ his transformed state, but ≥ his base at the least.
CinCameron20 said:
----

I wont be able to participate in this discussion simply due to availability, but I'll just leave this here since those are my thoughts.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the help Cin.
 
I noticed one of Luffy's justifications is incorrect.
Mountain level with Gear 2nd (Held his own in a fight against Fujitora) or Gear 3rd (Stronger than Gear 2nd. Capable of fighting and pressuring Fujitora)

Incorrect.
This was when he used Gear 2nd and 3rd combined against Issho, not just them split.
0798-015.png


On the right side of the page, look at the pattern of the smoke around his body. That's Gear 2nd's pattern.

It's not inconsistent since he used it against Yamato in Wano (Wano spoiler)
 
Heavy bump.

I've been monitoring and working on some other verses, so we have to decide on something soon.

How will we work the scaling out?
 
Well, we've made a start with the sandbox. If you've made updates to it since the last time we spoke about it, I can go through it against give more thoughts.
 
You can, the main issues we need to discuss are some unknowns, like Nami's and Usopp's striking, Jora and Sugar's AP, who Hody will scale to, and whatnot
 
Giolla/Jora should probably be Unknown. She only fought using her art-based attacks.

Sugar has a feat of reacting to dwarves but she has no physical/striking feats. She should be Unknown as well.
 
Okay, so going over the WIP sandbox.

For Franky:

Attack Potency: City level (Easily overwhelmed Baby 5 and Buffalo with his Shogun and could dispatch them with minimal effort)
Durability: City level (Can casually tank attacks from Baby 5)
Click to expand...

These are stats for Franky Shogun. We need a separate key for Franky himself, and a probably a separate rating for his laser attack which is significantly above his other attacks.

This will impact Machvise and Senor Pink, and other characters who scale to them.

For Nami:

Striking Strength: City level (Given that she has the capacity to use Blue Walk)
Durability: City level (Her body was strong enough to use Sanji's Blue Walk technique, takes a punch from a pissed off Franky)
Click to expand...

I don't think it's specified that you need City level Striking Strength to perform the Blue Walk. Sanji, being able to use it in Nami's body, isn't proof that he can use all of his other techniques to at the same strength as his regular body.

For Trebol:

Attack Potency: Likely City level (Should be comparable to Diamante and Pica)
Durability: Likely City level via powerscaling
Click to expand...

Trebol needs a proper reason for his statistics or should be changed to Unknown.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, so going over the WIP sandbox.

For Franky:

These are stats for Franky Shogun. We need a separate key for Franky himself, and a probably a separate rating for his laser attack which is significantly above his other attacks.

This will impact Machvise and Senor Pink, and other characters who scale to them.

For Nami:

I don't think it's specified that you need City level Striking Strength to perform the Blue Walk. Sanji, being able to use it in Nami's body, isn't proof that he can use all of his other techniques to at the same strength as his regular body.

For Trebol:

Trebol needs a proper reason for his statistics or should be changed to Unknown.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with this, his Franky Shogun should be a different key.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, so going over the WIP sandbox.

For Franky:



These are stats for Franky Shogun. We need a separate key for Franky himself, and a probably a separate rating for his laser attack which is significantly above his other attacks.

This will impact Machvise and Senor Pink, and other characters who scale to them.

For Nami:



I don't think it's specified that you need City level Striking Strength to perform the Blue Walk. Sanji, being able to use it in Nami's body, isn't proof that he can use all of his other techniques to at the same strength as his regular body.

For Trebol:



Trebol needs a proper reason for his statistics or should be changed to Unknown.
Click to expand...
Seems fine to me as well.
 
Damage3245 said:
For Nami:



I don't think it's specified that you need City level Striking Strength to perform the Blue Walk. Sanji, being able to use it in Nami's body, isn't proof that he can use all of his other techniques to at the same strength as his regular body.

For Trebol:



Trebol needs a proper reason for his statistics or should be changed to Unknown.
Click to expand...
Also gotta remember "Blue Walk" is Geppou, which there are 7-C users who can utilize it... Even lower tiers. Technically only a tier 9 feat. Idk why that was even added.

Trebol doesn't directly impact other characters anyways, so him being Unknown is fine.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, so going over the WIP sandbox.

For Franky:



These are stats for Franky Shogun. We need a separate key for Franky himself, and a probably a separate rating for his laser attack which is significantly above his other attacks.

This will impact Machvise and Senor Pink, and other characters who scale to them.

For Nami:



I don't think it's specified that you need City level Striking Strength to perform the Blue Walk. Sanji, being able to use it in Nami's body, isn't proof that he can use all of his other techniques to at the same strength as his regular body.

For Trebol:



Trebol needs a proper reason for his statistics or should be changed to Unknown.
Click to expand...
Looks good.
 
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