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not just town level, I'm pretty sure the sandbox makes it clear it's about small city level usopp.
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Some Random One Piece CRT
- Thread starter KobsterHope07
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Usopp shouldn't have Small City Class+ Striking Strength.
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These are both lifting strength feats via Hody's grip, and he was showing it to a bunch of pre timeskip Hachi level characters who were surprised from small building level feats
We scaling dura too to Small City level+ via taking a point blank hit from a gastanet and emerged with minimal bruises.
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I don't know about that. Usopp was incapacitated by that single Gastanet explosion. We could probably calc Caeser's explosion though.
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Same as Nami in Sanji's body in the same panel, and Nami got up later and complimented Sanji's durability.
They have no wounds. This could've just been from exhaustion and energy loss from getting Oxygen ripped out of their lungs.
Yeah, low tier 8 at best
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While that is a compliment to his durability, it also seems to be more towards his endurance since he is actually bloody and bruised but able to get back up. And either way this isn't necessarily the same as "Tanked an explosion without injuries", more like "Took less injuries than you'd expect from an explosion in the face." Not like they lost a limb or something.
Either way though, I think you can see why I have issues when the basis of these upgrades are based around profiles that need sorely revising.
The thing is, we should be able to calc things like Hody Jones destroying the wall, Caeser making an explosion, etc. We should be making use of these feats instead of trying to build the entire scaling chain around Pica.
If you think any of these feats could be useful, or know of any others, I can have a go at calcing them.
Either way though, I think you can see why I have issues when the basis of these upgrades are based around profiles that need sorely revising.
The thing is, we should be able to calc things like Hody Jones destroying the wall, Caeser making an explosion, etc. We should be making use of these feats instead of trying to build the entire scaling chain around Pica.
If you think any of these feats could be useful, or know of any others, I can have a go at calcing them.
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large building level+ for hody as a whole, completely messes up the narrative. It wouldn't make sense logically as to why he wouldn't scale above usopp.
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I'm not seriously proposing High 8-C for Hody Jones. Just pointing out that is the minimum he'd get based off of Usopp's statement.
I think he should scale higher than that, but I don't believe he should be scaling to Small City level+.
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Where do you think would be a fair estimate?
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Well, it depends on where we want to go with this.
If we want to say "Hody Jones could reasonably scale to potentially hurting Usopp and we have this feat of Usopp being hurt and incapacitated by an explosion, so we could say that Hody Jones is likely in the ballpark of the explosion." then all we'd need to do is calc the explosion, calc Usopp's durability and say that Hody Jones is likely this strong.
If we wanted to scale Hody Jones from shattering the walls of the palace to find a lowball for his physical strength, then we'd just need to calc that feat.
Failing that, if neither feat ends up being more impressive than what Pre-Timeskip Usopp scales to anyway, then we just say that Hody Jones is superior to whatever Pre-Timeskip Usopp scales to.
Hypothetically another way to handle it is to look at what Overdosed Hody Jones concretely scales at the moment and try and backscale from that to what base Hody Jones would scale to, but I'm not sure if we can even do that.
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We can't cause we don't have an approximation on how many he took.
5x was a lowball since that's the most we've seen him take onscreen, but he took much more offscreen, unless we do an "at most" rating
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I agree with this. I think Likely should be fine. It should satisfy both parties, anyways. All that's needed is calcing.
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I mean then the ratings for other tiers would be likely as well right? For example for katakuri, cracker, and luffy their best current keys would be (likely 6-C)
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Right. That was my biggest concern with that.
Below is an explanation of my thoughts concerning the proposed multiplier:
I'd like to point out something regarding this reasoning:
Because I don't fully disagree with the value chosen but the multiplier, but rather the logic behind it.
The transformation isn't seemingly caused by ingesting a certain number of pills at once. He didn't just chug five them down in one go and that's what caused the transformation.
After Zoro injured him, we see Hody take a pill to deal with the pain. And later it is confirmed by one of his crew that he's been popping energy pills since he was wounded. Not taking them all at once, but seemingly just taking them when he can feel the pain.
So it seems to me that it is Hody's exposure to the drug over time that is what caused the transformation, not a number of them ingested all at once.
That reason he should be scaling to more than what he was like with 4 energy steroids is because he simply has superior feats to what he did before.
Because I don't fully disagree with the value chosen but the multiplier, but rather the logic behind it.
The transformation isn't seemingly caused by ingesting a certain number of pills at once. He didn't just chug five them down in one go and that's what caused the transformation.
After Zoro injured him, we see Hody take a pill to deal with the pain. And later it is confirmed by one of his crew that he's been popping energy pills since he was wounded. Not taking them all at once, but seemingly just taking them when he can feel the pain.
So it seems to me that it is Hody's exposure to the drug over time that is what caused the transformation, not a number of them ingested all at once.
That reason he should be scaling to more than what he was like with 4 energy steroids is because he simply has superior feats to what he did before.
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I disagree with this. You have a point about him not chugging five of them in just one go. Regardless, we saw him take 4 on screen, but it was stated that he DID take more, and it was stated to be TONS. A lowball of 5 with the 32x multiplier still seems very much justified.
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I said I didn't disagree with the chosen value, just with the logic behind it. And it doesn't say "tons" in the official release.
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Oh, my apologies
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Has anything been decided atm?
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I'll try and produce some calcs from Fishman Island Arc and Punk Hazard Arc if it will help.
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Alright
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What specific feats are you calcing? I don't there's a need because it's obvious that they're all going to be extremely low. I really don't see why, when Usopp himself clearly stated he's NOT being scared anymore, and he's still proceeding to be scared of Hody. The argument of him not being scared of Buffalo and Baby 5, because they were far away from him, clearly doesn't make sense either, because we have no way to prove he would still be scared if they were close, but he still had the AP to hurt them. I'm pretty sure him being surprised of how strong his grip was, and this is post-timeskip usopp. Lowballing hody to such an extent isn't good, especially seeing as Usopp couldn't do anything.
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Feats such as the Gastanet explosion that Usopp survived but was injured by.
I don't know what argument you're referring to for "not being scared of Buffalo and Baby 5". That's not something I brought up.
If the actual feats for the characters in the series are consistently low... then what does that tell you about the character's strength? How are they made more accurate by every single character in some way scaling to Pica?
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Usopp is scaled to be half of pica's golem, post timeskip usopp. Feats aren't limiters, you can still scale to someone based off of other reasons. It can be accurate if the scaling does make sense, and in which case it does. Lowballing with feats, over ways you can actually scale a character, isn't accurate either. All the feats you're gonna calc are not even gonna reach tier 7 most likely. It's literally going to show off worse feats, when logically and narratively, Usopp himself stated he wasn't going to be scared, and was going to become a warrior. Yet, he was still logically impressed by hody, and he was terrified of him at the same time. It completely makes sense to scale Hody above Usopp. Limiting down to feats isn't the right option imo, when there are scaling methods that exist, and scaling hody above usopp makes since logically, and narratively too. It completely messes up the narrative itself to scale hody below him.
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@StrawHatArslan; I don't think that Usopp's physical AP / Durability should be scaling to half of Pica's golem and right now his justifications don't support him scaling to half of Pica's Golem either.
Hence why we need to find some kind of feat or calc for Post-Timeskip Usopp.
Hence why we need to find some kind of feat or calc for Post-Timeskip Usopp.
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Why do you believe it's inconsistent for usopp?
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I'm going by the current justifications on Usopp's profile. His current justifications don't support him scaling to Pica.
As for Usopp's reaction to Pica, he is way more terrified and would have been crushed flat along with the others if not for Zoro's intervention. I don't like scaling people based on just their reactions without solid statements or feats, but clearly Usopp is way, way out of his league when faced with Pica.
Even without Pica himself, just the rubble alone falling on top of Usopp forces him to shout for help. We could probably calc this too just to find the energy of the mass of stone falling on them.
So I think we ought to try a little better than just "Hody Jones = Usopp = half of Pica".
If Post-Timeskip Usopp gets hurt by a Town level explosion, and your logic is "Usopp was afraid of Hody Jones, therefore Hody Jones can hurt him." then that doesn't necessarily make Hody Jones higher than Town level, right? It doesn't rule it out, sure, but I don't know what your aversion is to using feats here.
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And you do know that 2x is more than enough for a stomp in One Piece right?
Being half of his AP isn't "comparable" in OP.
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1. Usopp is scared about how big pica is, which is AOE, and his ap would still be coming from someone who's 134 megatons. I'm pretty sure those aren't his justifications, usopp scales to buffalo, and is around nami's level.
2. Why are you trying to calc something like that? That's literally once again going on the feats are limiters aspect. We already know Pica's golem is 134 megatons, meaning any AP attack from it, no matter the AOE, is still that ap.
3. It makes sense, I don't see how.
4. Once again, if a feat only calcs at town level, doesn't mean that's all it can be, if we're using low 7-B usopp, and a town level explosion hurts him, then that person who hurt him/the ap would also be low 7-B. Usopp was 100% afraid of him. You keep going by the aspect of if someone who's already proven to be say Town level, but then they pull off a building level feat and someone gets hurt by it, does that mean that the person who got hurt by it is only building level? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that fam.
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@KingTempest; if you're quoting my posts back at me, are you agreeing with me that we shouldn't be using a character dodging as a solid basis for scaling?
Did you miss me saying this: "I don't like scaling people based on just their reactions without solid statements or feats"?
Feats aren't limiters. They're the basis of profiles.
And no, I disagree with your point on AP. Just because one attack or one movement or one feat has a certain level of AP doesn't mean every single thing done by that character is that value of AP. Context is key.
Usopp's AP with one of his weapons is scaling to Buffalo, yes.
Not his physicals / durability.
Did you miss me saying this: "I don't like scaling people based on just their reactions without solid statements or feats"?
Feats aren't limiters. They're the basis of profiles.
And no, I disagree with your point on AP. Just because one attack or one movement or one feat has a certain level of AP doesn't mean every single thing done by that character is that value of AP. Context is key.
Usopp's AP with one of his weapons is scaling to Buffalo, yes.
Not his physicals / durability.
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No, I'm saying that you can't say that Hody couldn't scale for Usopp not wanting to be hit, then using Pica as a counter.
Yes, I actually did miss it
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1. So you're saying if someone pulls off a feat at a certain level, then that mean's that not every single thing done by that character is that ap? So you're trying to tell me if someone can destroy a planet easily, but if that same PERSON destroys a building, that means their ap isn't planet level? I apologize if I mixed that up, but it seems like you're trying to basically tell me that.
Yes, even if it's with that weapon, someone like hody would still scale above regardless, if usopp knew he couldn't do anything at all, hody still would be scaling above that AP.
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No. Not exactly like that.
I just mean exactly what I say. That yes, not everything a person does is automatically at that level. How they accomplish a feat is important. The nature of what is being calced, and how they can apply their strength and energy is all relevant.
If somebody shoots an energy beam to blow up a planet effortlessly, but later is unable to physically punch their way out of a brick-walled room - and that was the only information you had on them - then you would deduce that their AP and their Striking Strength is not the same and shouldn't be treated as such.
Usopp never said he couldn't do anything at all.
I think you're extrapolating too far from his reaction to Hody Jones to now say that Hody Jones is physically superior to literally anything Usopp is capable of with his weapons.
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This is the first verse I've been involved in where a character had a different AP rating for every breath they take.
Issho's gravity with his sword backwards is A, upwards is B, downwards is C, sideways is D.
Pica when he moves stone is A, punches is B, steps is C, dies is D.
Are we about to start scaling people to different levels of Luffy if he doesn't close his fist when he attacks now?
I understand your point, but if someone can CASUALLY do one thing without any issues, and it takes EFFORT to do something else, I'd say that the one that takes EFFORT is higher in AP.
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That’s if though. In most cases they’re usually going to be TREATED as the same unless proven otherwise. Hody easily broke that wall, so obviously we know he could do more, and him scaling above usopp should be able to give his striking strength low 7-B as well.
Usopp was literally terrified like I said, and he was impressed by it. You can argue that Usopp doesn’t have small city striking but he definitely has the ap, and regardless, he was still terrified in other aspects, such as the water bullets which as well would go to AP. In this case it would be above his weapons too due to how usopp literally seemed helpless, he was terrified of how strong hody really was. Narratively, hody should be scaling above Usopp’s weapons regardless, it just wouldn’t make sense to not do so, after being so impressed by him, but he’s also known what his weapons can do as well. Hody would be above in both power and striking strength in that case.
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@KingTempest; some of your points are a bit of a Strawman argument. We differentiate AP for certain techniques or abilities or between supernatural attacks and physical attacks for all other verses.
But in this specific case, Pica can accomplish varying levels of feats depending on the amount of stone he has access to and what he does with it.
Different levels of attacks are possible by the same character. We rate the profiles by the highest feats typically but that doesn't mean we are equating every attack or technique by that character to that level.
Also, I need to confess I was under a misunderstanding of the feat. I thought that Chinjao and Elizabello had stopped Pica while he was in the middle of one of his punches. But he's actually just reaching out with the palm of his hand towards them. This is not the feat that caused him to take a couple of breathes so the argument no longer holds up that "he had to have put in more effort here than with the regeneration." There's no evidence that him reaching out with his hand required "equal effort/AP" to him regenerating.
Which brings me back to thinking that it is safer just to rate Chinjao and Elizabello on the calc of them destroying the mass of stone for their feat.
But in this specific case, Pica can accomplish varying levels of feats depending on the amount of stone he has access to and what he does with it.
Different levels of attacks are possible by the same character. We rate the profiles by the highest feats typically but that doesn't mean we are equating every attack or technique by that character to that level.
Also, I need to confess I was under a misunderstanding of the feat. I thought that Chinjao and Elizabello had stopped Pica while he was in the middle of one of his punches. But he's actually just reaching out with the palm of his hand towards them. This is not the feat that caused him to take a couple of breathes so the argument no longer holds up that "he had to have put in more effort here than with the regeneration." There's no evidence that him reaching out with his hand required "equal effort/AP" to him regenerating.
Which brings me back to thinking that it is safer just to rate Chinjao and Elizabello on the calc of them destroying the mass of stone for their feat.
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Pica regenerated his arm.
The same arm that punches.
It's the same amount of stone.
How do you think Pica moves? He merges with the stone and moves it to wherever he desires, same with the punches.
Newton's Law makes the punch with more effort > the regeneration, which scales to the golem's dura, which Chinjao and Elizabello destroyed.
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Literally what tempest said lol.
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If the argument is the same amount of stone, then why aren't you comparing it to the feat where he actually regenerates just his arm?
A close-up of Pica simply breathing does not prove to me that he used more AP to punch than to regenerate his torso + arm. It's not like we get a close-up of him during the regeneration to prove one way or the other.
As for Newton's Law here and them shattering the arm - that can simply be down to the way in which they're inflicting damage. Two characters significantly smaller than Pica are inflicting their AP in a much more focused way than the entire energy of Pica's punch being spread out across his entire fist. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me that their attacks would be more effective at damaging him; like the difference between you punching a flat surface and you punching a knife.
Anyway, I don't recall anything about the stone Pica controls being made more durable than normal. So why isn't it possible that Pica simply punch with less force than what it would take to shatter his arm?
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So now he’s walking and punching with less force than it takes to break stone....
It’s common sense.... Pica would literally Shatter his golem every single step or movement if the durability of the stone didn’t change... we don’t need stuff spelled out to us
I’m not even going to address this....
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You say that like "break stone" has a single AP value.
We have a calc for Chinjao and Elizabello breaking his stone arm. We don't have a calc for him actually punching. Instead his punch is being arbitrarily scaled to his regeneration and now we're assuming that he raised the durability of the stone itself up to match it.
I just think this is being made more convoluted than it needs to be for the sake of upgrading characters to a feat that nobody should be directly scaling to.
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