Solaris being stronger than the Egg Wizard.

[KarmodF]

Why is this Solaris' justification when its heavily contradicted by official sources.

There are two main reasons for this:

1. In Sonic Rush 2 Sonic admited to not be able to defeat Egg Wizard by himself, this being Post-Solaris Sonic

2. The Jewel Scepter is stronger than both the Sol and Chaos Emeralds.

He was only defeated thanks to PIS they we're able to penetrate through his armor only after Marine distracted him, who, couldnt even face fodder enemies even in the later parts of the game.

Counter-argument: "The Eggmans could just be bluffing about the power of the Scepter and Sonic doesnt even know his actual full power".

R=With the previous arguments this one just doesnt hold up, not only that, the Eggmans already had both pairs of Emeralds (Which powered the Salamander), meaning that they had knowledge on their power.

Honestly the scaling should be the other way around.

With Solaris' justification being the video with Eggman explaining how he was going to devour all of time/all timelines and he refering it as a Super-Dimensional being that eats dimensions for lunch.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

People say he's stronger because of AoE or more hedgehogs, but those are fallacious statements.

 

[KarmodF]

Wouldnt that just fall into AoE fallacy?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The argument is that EW only affects two universes while Solaris affects all timelines, a blatant AoE fallacy.

Second, the argument that Solaris took more hedgehogs is dumb for 2 reasons. 1, weaker enemies needed 2 or more Supers before, such as metal Overlord. And 2, Solaris is omnipresent, existing in the past, present, and future, obviously it's gonna take three Supers to beat him if he's in different time periods.

Third, there are zero statements of Solaris being stronger. Eggman was rather casual about Solaris destroying time and space and confident in the Emerald's ability do defeat Solaris. Shadow the hedgehog even stated it's a fair fight.

 

[KarmodF]

''Bump.''

 

[KarmodF]

''Bump.''

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Egg Wizard only got defeated because it was power nulled, Super Sonic and Burning Blaze don't scale and ig Egg Wizard is now the strongest boss in the series.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Egg Wizard only got defeated because it was power nulled, Super Sonic and Burning Blaze don't scale and ig Egg Wizard is now the strongest boss in the series.

Nulled how?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Remember folks 06 erased itself from the timeline so it's dubious to assume how the power of the characters developed since the events of 06 didn't happen moreover I too would like to see the jurisdiction of Solaris>EW since it's been bothering me for awhile but I've been keeping away from Sonic threads because... well they're SONIC threads.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Sonic has actuality and he said it would've been impossible for him to fight it by himself.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Wasn't the acausality feat scaled from the Time Eater? (or was it assumed Sonic already had type 1 acausality prior to generations?), either way the scaling is messed up:

EW>Solaris; It would contradict the implications that the power of stars only threaten Blaze and Sonic's dimensions as stated in game (considering Solaris threaten multiple timelines/dimensions Vs the EW merging two dimensions).

Solaris>EW; It would contradict the Eggheads statements since there's no direct jurisdiction that Solaris IS superior to the EW (aside from threatening multiple dimensions Vs merging two dimensions) moreover I agree the number of super forms is irrelevant heck it took two sets of emeralds to beat the Egg Salamander while the EW lost via PiS meanwhile it took one set of emeralds to beat Solaris and even then he was only defeated (erased) via destroying his mind in the past.

This turning into a headache...

 

[ElixirBlue]

Third, there are zero statements of Solaris being stronger. Eggman was rather casual about Solaris destroying time and space and confident in the Emerald's ability do defeat Solaris. Shadow the hedgehog even stated it's a fair fight.

Scaling enemies by what Eggman thinks of them. Remember when Eggman was freaking out about Metal Overlord and said even with the seven Chaos Emeralds, it would take a miracle?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

You're not listening ElixirBlue. Sonic himself, who remembers the events of 06, said he can't beat the EW by himself. Shadow, in 06, also says a Super Dimensional life form is a fair fight for him.

 

[KarmodF]

@ElixirBlue

I put in the OP why Eggman is not lying about the Power of the Stars.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

You're not listening ElixirBlue. Sonic himself, who remembers the events of 06, said he can't beat the EW by himself. Shadow, in 06, also says a Super Dimensional life form is a fair fight for him.

Shadow was clearly being cocky as he needed the help of Sonic and Silver to take him down.

 

[ShakeResounding]

You're not listening ElixirBlue. Sonic himself, who remembers the events of 06, said he can't beat the EW by himself. Shadow, in 06, also says a Super Dimensional life form is a fair fight for him.

Gotta stop you there. That was Shadow's confidence and cockiness first and foremost, and taking that statement at face-value doesn't seem like a big brain play. I haven't read up on the entire thread, just had to give my thought on using this as legit evidence

 

[ElixirBlue]

I get you both are saying, but this is the same evil genius who was freaking out over the power of Metal Overlord, who Eggman had doubted 7 Chaos Emeralds could beat it. Clearly, Eggman isn't all knowing when it comes to Chaos energy.

 

[KarmodF]

@ElixirBlue

Eggman is quite knowledgeable in Chaos Energy, knowing how he is able to use it to power the Egg Salamander to the point of matching 2 super forms and being able to drain all of the emerald's energies in Unleashd. Him stating that the PtS is stronger than the Emeralds is not a strecht, most evidently when Sonic stated he was actually impossible to defeat singlehandly (Even when he defeated present Solaris alone) and that both we're tired at the end of the fight, except for the Wizard.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Immeasurable speed takes care of that. It was even stated Sonic was the only one with the power to defeat Solaris, so Shadow and Silver was overkill. That, and fiction doesn't care about how our logic works.

I also remember Sonic alone having the power to destroy Solaris.

 

[Mephistus]

The surpassing the chaos emeralds and sol emeralds statement the Egg Wizard could just be scaled off double what the final egg blaster output is capable of, circa 4-A due to the reasons that is the best speculative output that eggman scales off from via utilizing all 7 Emeralds with machines. Kinda the same arguement that was for metal overlords seperate key. Eggmans affinity with the emeralds is shit compared to Sonics here...just my 2c about that part on what zamasu said.

Alsooo if post solaris sonics affinity is static, kinda like with shadow stating he can use the emeralds true power which be their best attack potency and sonic being equal peer to him if not better due to the guidebook statement saying he could kill solaris alone, Id think that dark gaia or time eater would be also affected in getting upgraded due to their fights on top of being post 06.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Egg Wizard only got defeated because it was power nulled, Super Sonic and Burning Blaze don't scale and ig Egg Wizard is now the strongest boss in the series.

Nulled how?

At the end of the fight Marine fires a bright beam that severely weakens the machine.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'm so proud of Eggman. Or was it Nega's technology?

 

[KarmodF]

Both actually.

 

[KarmodF]

So, any big counter-argument to discuss about?

 

[ElixirBlue]

I have no arguments.

 

[KarmodF]

Well then, Bump.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Shake did make a good point. Was that not addressed?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Shake did make a good point. Was that not addressed?

About what?

 

[KarmodF]

He didn't make any substantial points, only addressed Zamasu's points which aren't even the main factors for the revision.

 

[Radical_Resident_Khan]

Marine part is PIS, Super Sonic and Burning Blaze beating it isnt PIS also the fact the contradiction is Power of tge stars being above both Emeralds when it was beaten by the latter. The power of the stars was never nulled no proof of that was shown in the games Marine didn't nullify his power only staggered him. The Egg Wizard is not the strongest Solaris still is.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Why is pointing out Marine's part was PIS a counter argument?

 

[Radical_Resident_Khan]

All she did was stagger it not nullify its power. The only damage the Egg Wizard had was from Super Sonic and Burning Blaze. Also her taking on fodder enemies doesn't scale her to the stronger characters.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

also the fact the contradiction is Power of tge stars being above both Emeralds when it was beaten by the latter.

The Emeralds don't have a set level.

 

[Radical_Resident_Khan]

The Emeralds are Multiversal ever since Solaris came out of The blue

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

And? Sonic sees the Egg Wizard as stronger too.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Emeralds are Multiversal ever since Solaris came out of The blue

But that doesn't mean the Chaos Emeralds cap at Multiveral. It just how they have been used so far.

Yes, it's from Archie but it's an informative statement on different users using Chaos Energy.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

Where did people get "06 was erased" from?

It was just changed

It's a Timeline A And B Scenario

Sonic saves Elise And When Sonic Doesn't Save Elise for example, undoing her death just changed Sonics Future Not Silvers. Iblis never happened to them but still exists across time and space and hence Mephiles and Solaris as well.

Plus it was a Region Of Time In Generations, 06 had to happen in order for Anyone to go back and remove Solaris' corporal form from their timeline events still happened but instead Solaris never was reformed for unknown reasons.

Hence there is a timeline where 06 did happen. Heck in Crisis Ciry in Generations Iblis' Presence can be seen as a tornado and such as well as thorough his minions.

Sonic And Silver are literally fighting in a disaster Lmao.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

Some have made good arguments but others are capping.

People saying Super Sonic Alone could Fight Solaris is a no no

Angered Solaris 1st State Alone is >>>> Super Sonic by Himself

In the guides it stated how Sonic was the only one with the abilities, hopes and power of stopping Solaris

Shadow also said they can't do it without him.

Guides also State that the Golden Super Sonic can't defeat Solaris alone. So by context that's why Sonic chose Shadow And Silver as allies.

And Solaris is Omnipresent Through all of time, there isn't just a small number Solaris' there's like many of them in each timeline, in gameplay they just make it out as a 1 2 3 thing But more is going on.

Egg Wizard being Stronger Than Solaris? It's debatable although I kindly disagree, Solaris couldn't destroy the Chaos Emeralds but Neither Could The Power Of The Stars despite being stronger than the Chaos Emeralds And a Super Form But more than one of So in Egg Wizards Case Completely evened the Bar And Power Nulled, it was a stalemate but in Sonic And Blaze's favor. There's really no significant difference between Chaos Emeralds and The Sun Emeralds except Polarity. Egg Wizard got mopped up by the addition of two super powered people all in all.

But that isn't the case of Solaris, you see Solaris kept improving and growing stronger throughout the fight, when his defenses got tackled and was being pushed back he leveled up and his second State and it's nature was much stronger than the Hedgehog Trio (albeit they could still fight him of course) and had to stop playing around and beat him before he erases them and everything else in the verse on the spot.

If we were talking about who would win (which would be a good vs thread)

I place 200 dollars on Solaris. Bet.

 

[KarmodF]

Super Sonic and Burning Blaze beating it isnt PIS also the fact the contradiction is Power of tge stars being above both Emeralds when it was beaten by the latter.

Huge no, everything you mentioned I have already addressed in the OP, them destroying his armor was only because Marine distracted the Eggmans.

Again the main Eggman is the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the Emeralds there is no reason he would be bluff about their power.

So the point still stands.

 

[TheImagineBreaker121212]

Solaris Is Stronger Than Egg Wizard