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Smol issue in pokémon profiles

PaChi2

PaChi2

VS Battles
Retired
20,720
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The vast majority of the Pokémon Legendaries mention that the Legendaries fodderize the regular pokémon in speed. Can I get a reason for this? Because it seems to go on the trope of "its stronger, therefore, its faster", which isnt true at all.

If there is no reason the wording should be changed, tbh
 
Except...it is true? Because Legendaries fodderize regular pokemon in, like, everything?

Pretty sure thats a concrete reason within itself.
 
Someone needs to update the trainer profiles with the 6-c ratings.

Or they did, didn't check it in a few days.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Except...it is true? Because Legendaries fodderize regular pokemon in, like, everything?

Pretty sure thats a concrete reason within itself.
Click to expand...
You'd need more concrete proof than that.

Moltres "fodderizing" Charizard in speed has to come from somewhere. Like, any kind of media, because otherwise its headcanon and in anime, manga and videogames regular pokemon can keep up with legendaries.
 
You mean because of PIS. Trainers with well trained Pokemon across all 3 mediums have been put in life or death situations just by battling legendaries and you think regular pokemon can legitimately keep up with them?

Its not headcanon, its common sense. A regular pokemon is nothing compared to a Legendary in any way.
 
I have to admit, PaChi makes sense here; but I really find it hard to believe there are actually zero feats of Legendaries simply blitzing regular pokemon.

Would it be so hard to but provide an example or two to put to rest the concern in the OP? Otherwise, it's fallacious to merely assert '[X] is true' without any backing besides a title. After all, just because Legendaries hit harder, does not necessarily entail they move faster as well.
 
Yeah, just to be clear I myself have zero doubt that Legendaries should be faster than almost any ordinary Pokemon, but the lack of concrete rationale or evidence is definitely a concern. Any way you could rustle up a scan for that Mewtwo feat, Peter?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
You mean because of PIS. Trainers with well trained Pokemon across all 3 mediums have been put in life or death situations just by battling legendaries and you think regular pokemon can legitimately keep up with them?

Its not headcanon, its common sense. A regular pokemon is nothing compared to a Legendary in any way.
Click to expand...

No, no. Dont pull the PIS card. "Common sense"?

Legendaries are stronger, we have evidence of that, but faster? Why would they have to be faster than everyone in the verse just because they are legendaries? Im asking for a reason, a scan, anything. Not every verse scales speed to power, you know.
 
It's evidence that I inquired for, so I'm pretty sold on this.

Best to see if it fits PaChi's standard for what they sought as well.
 
1) not a speed feat. Its a very widespread artistic technique. Or are you going to tell me that Aerodactyl has now 4 wings?

2) not a speed feat. Good TK, though.

3) Its extremespeed dood, pikachu can do that (with quick attack)

4) Talonflame can keep up even if it gets demolished.

I want something that justifies fodderizing.
 
1).i just copied and pasted that man 2). He had to perceive the beam in order to TK it, so it kinda is. 3). Using a speed technique doesn't automatically mean your faster then whomever your facing, ask ash's Pikachu that, he's had his fair share of being slapped out of quick attack and volt tackle. 4). Zapdos was "teaching" talonflame, it literally just evolved, I don't think a newly evolved Pokémon can be on equal footing against a legendary.
 
I mean, at 2) the only thing you are telling me is that mewtwo scales to gyarados. By not being a speed feat I meant that it didnt put mewtwo >>>>>>> gyarados or anything.

3) still stands, blitzing people with Extremespeed or quick attack shouldnt count by any means as its the whole point of the attack, we are here to discuss why legendaries are supposed to fodderize others in base, with 0 buffs. 4) by keeping up I always mean it as "reacting to" (in this context), nothing sort of "Talonflame was making Zapdos go all out" or something.
 
Is anyone capable of asking Kukui to jump back in this thread and defend his claim? He seemed adamant about it but didn't provide evidence, and PaChi is making a convincing argument for removing that speed scaling from Legendaries since the rationale seems to rely on 'it's self-evident due to their title' which isn't adequate.
 
However:

1) Charizard can fight Entei (he got overwhelmed, tho, but not in speed).

2) That latios guy in the Sinnoh tournament.

3) Pikachu can fight Ho-oH in the movie.

4) The Battle Frontier doods with Articuno and the Regis trio.

5) In PMD Alakazam and co go to fight Groudon.

6) Deoxys movie as a whole.

7) not sure if Eusine and Suicune fought.

8) And a big etc.

In most instances Legendaries are portrayed as overwhelmingly strong compared to their foes, in most of the examples I listed above the non-legendaries got wrecked. However, I dont remember any instance where this guys are exceedingly faster than regular pokemon. Having more muscle doesnt mean you are now super fast out of the blue.
 
The Entei wasn't a real Entei it was created by the Unown, I think that was what they were asking.
 
1) not a speed feat. Its a very widespread artistic technique. Or are you going to tell me that Aerodactyl has now 4 wings?

Yes, it's an artistic technique, but it's a technique used to PORTRAY SPEED. It's used the same way in every form of visual media. It's used to show that, relative to everyone around the combatant(s), they're moving so quickly that the audience can't keep up, therefore their slower minds think that multiples of an object/limb have appeared


In PMD Alakazam and co go to fight Groudon.

The problem with the PMD series, and a lot of side games in general, is that there's often a lot of fate or situational stuff that comes into a legendary's defeat. Groudon in this scenario had just woken up, so it would rationally not be at full power. Plus are you really trying to convince me that the unevolved player pokemon are physically superior to literally every other pokemon in existence?


And using Ash's pokemon to support which pokemon should scale to who is incredibly iffy. Ash's team is incredibly inconsistent based on what the writers want to happen in each episode. Ash's pokemon individually would be fine to scale, but the species as a whole is just iffy.
 
"Yes, it's an artistic technique, but it's a technique used to PORTRAY SPEED. It's used the same way in every form of visual media. It's used to show that, relative to everyone around the combatant(s), they're moving so quickly that the audience can't keep up, therefore their slower minds think that multiples of an object/limb have appeared"

Aerodactyl had no trouble keeping up with it. Did you see the scan? Aerodactyl had several wings in that drawing. Its portrayed as fast and nothing else.

Also you missed the point by a huge margin. Im asking why Legendaries have to fodderize in speed the other pokemon when they arent portrayed like that.
 
The real cal howard said:
It's common sense.
Click to expand...
It should be removed, then. You have to prove that they fodderize regular pokemon in speed. If there is no evidence you cant just go "its common sense", lol.
 
PaChi2 said:
No, no. Dont pull the PIS card. "Common sense"?

Legendaries are stronger, we have evidence of that, but faster? Why would they have to be faster than everyone in the verse just because they are legendaries? Im asking for a reason, a scan, anything. Not every verse scales speed to power, you know.
Click to expand...
Because Legendaries are known to be pokemon who have capabilities that are far above the run of the mill everyday pokemon a regular 10 year old can get just by leaving their house?

No, I very much am going to pull the PIS card here because for once its very justified. And I literally gave a reason for that in the very next sentence. Trainers who have well trained pokemon are, again, put in life and death situations all the time when facing off against even the weakest of legendaries. Why would a regular ordinary pokemon be legitimately comparable to any legenedary, in any relevant stat, without PIS getting in the way?

Or in fact, answer me this. Why would trainers, much less people from multiple different organizations, even want Legendaries so badly if the pokemon they can get on their lonesome can replicate anything even remotely close to what a Legendary can do? Not specifically power wise, but literally any stat? Pokemon being considered legendaries is not simply just for name-sake, there is an actual reason for it.

But just so I dont look like im just giving excuses, there's multiple feats of a Legendary outspeeding regular mon that i'll point out:

-Mewtwo in the first movie casually reacting to and blocking an electric atttack from Magneton and bouncing it back with a finger.

-Mewtwo doing the same to a trainers Gyrados's hyper beam.

-Mewtwo from the Black and White series blitzing a hunters Tyranitar and 2 Escvaliers and dodging every attack they make; While injured and fatigued.

-Genesect blitzing a Ferligator and kicking it away.

And these are just from the top of my head.
 
"-Mewtwo in the first movie casually reacting to and blocking an electric atttack from Magneton and bouncing it back with a finger.

-Mewtwo doing the same to a trainers Gyrados's hyper beam."

Note that none of this is proof of anything.
 
PaChi2 said:
"-Mewtwo in the first movie casually reacting to and blocking an electric atttack from Magneton and bouncing it back with a finger.
-Mewtwo doing the same to a trainers Gyrados's hyper beam."

Note that none of this is proof of anything.
Click to expand...
Reaction and argubly attack speed feats aren't proof of anything?
 
"Or in fact, answer me this. Why would trainers, much less people from multiple different organizations, even want Legendaries so badly if the pokemon they can get on their lonesome can replicate anything even remotely close to what a Legendary can do? Not specifically power wise, but literally any stat? Pokemon being considered legendaries is not simply just for name-sake, there is an actual reason for it.'"

Yes, like having myths around them. That usually helps pokemon becominh legends. I.e: Groudon/Kyogre/Regigigas. Or being so rare some people think they dont exist: Mew.

Legendaries are legends. They have lore. Celebi is the guardian of the forest. Manaphy is the prince of the sea. Groudon and Kyo created land and ocean. Ho-oH is treated as a deity. Lugia is the guardian of the sea. Etc. Its all about legends.
 
I mean, he's asking for instances of fodderizing someone in speed, and reacting to attacks isn't exactly that.
 
PaChi2 said:
Yes, like having myths around them. That usually helps pokemon becominh legends. I.e: Groudon/Kyogre/Regigigas. Or being so rare some people think they dont exist: Mew.

Legendaries are legends. They have lore. Celebi is the guardian of the forest. Manaphy is the prince of the sea. Groudon and Kyo created land and ocean. Ho-oH is treated as a deity. Lugia is the guardian of the sea. Etc. Its all about legends.
Click to expand...
And this is a counter...how?
 
Andytrenom said:
I mean, he's asking for instances of fodderizing someone in speed, and reacting to attacks isn't exactly that.
Click to expand...
If a legendary can easily react to non-legendaries atttacks, thats kind of a helpful factor in "fodderizing someone in speed".

This is getting very nitpicky and selective now.
 
Speed is never mentioned in legends afaik. Trainers and Organizations want to catch Legendaries for their special powers and/or tremendous power and/or rarity (money). Speed is never mentioned.

In a world of tier 7s a tier 6 is a god. But the tier 6 doesnt have to be above every stat.
 
Honestly no, lifting up your hand while a beam travel several meters to hit you does not require a massive difference in speed at all. You shouldn't struggle to do something like thus with only a normal speed advantage
 
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