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SHINZA ONE LAST TIME

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Well, the reason for Demonbane to be nuked was because:
1) Lack of supporter
2) Outdated translation (The English translation for Demonbane game that we have so far is Zanma Taisei, and it's not even the definitive version. Kishin Houkou is the non-H and superior, with lots of new contents, and so far still untranslated. You can say that Kishin Houkou is like Dies Irae Amantes Amentes)
Summary, Demonbane verse is still somewhat untranslated at this point, if you don't count Zanma Taisei and the fan translation of 3 Gaiden Novels (which is also... outdated for obvious reason). Unless Demonbane have a proper translation for Kishin Houkou, sequel Kishin Hishou and those 3 novels, otherwise it's impossible to make a profile here, let alone a verse page.
 
Everything12 said:
We have scans and translations in the profile and CRT. It doesn't have a full translation, but what we do have seems to be understandable and complete enough that even I could update it if their were some not too major changes to the Wiki's system and powers, and we have no reason to suspect some Demonbane type stuff is going on.
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Avesta is also untranslated and we are working on the cosmology currently but literally everyone is currently not interested anymore
 
The idea that we have a few scans translated, along with DI/Ikabey and so it's enough to fix the verse is just, bad

It's pretty clear that just using those alone and ignoring Avesta, KKK and PL is inaccurate, especially when there's things both in series and from WoG that compare stuff found within those entries to things in Dies Irae, and we literally use those entries to justify things currently.

The scans present aren't really enough to do everything that's hypothetically needed, and as stated, the rest is untranslated and no one is willing to do anything. Even assuming the few translated scans were enough, no one is willing to do anything still either way. If we just use a handful of scans and are unable to get more, that leads to people just arguing different things around the same few scans constantly, without being able to provide context or anything, which doesn't help with our goal of trying to get accurate profiles indexed on the wiki.

And that leads back to the issue of no knowledgeable people wanting to fix it anymore. If there is like, 50% or less of the series translated at all, information needed is found in the other parts, and all people have are a few scans from part of it, the only people then who could really help are people who know the verse. People just looking at all the crts on the wiki to scavenge for scans would have the few translated Japanese scans, no idea what else happens in that part of the series that could help it be interpreted different ways, and maybe Dies Irae knowledge, and that's really it.

If the goal of the wiki is to attempt to accurately tier verses, we shouldn't keep one that's untranslated and basically inaccessible to outside people, where the knowledgeable people admit there are inaccuracies and things that need fixing, but then say they aren't willing to help the series.
 
Bobsican said:
Actually, I'm going to mention that we don't delete verses just because no one is supporting its indexing anymore (otherwise I'd argue we could delete over half of the site), we delete verses when their contents are proven to be too inaccurate (See: Demonbane).
Until that's done this verse has no good reason to be deleted, I'm afraid.
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A bunch of statistics need to be added, but they can't because threads are never completed. And nobody really cares to make CRTs anymore, so I don't really see the point of keeping the verse on the wiki
 
Mugen_no_Setsuna said:
Well, the reason for Demonbane to be nuked was because:
1) Lack of supporter
2) Outdated translation (The English translation for Demonbane game that we have so far is Zanma Taisei, and it's not even the definitive version. Kishin Houkou is the non-H and superior, with lots of new contents, and so far still untranslated. You can say that Kishin Houkou is like Dies Irae Amantes Amentes)
Summary, Demonbane verse is still somewhat untranslated at this point, if you don't count Zanma Taisei and the fan translation of 3 Gaiden Novels (which is also... outdated for obvious reason). Unless Demonbane have a proper translation for Kishin Houkou, sequel Kishin Hishou and those 3 novels, otherwise it's impossible to make a profile here, let alone a verse page.
Click to expand...
I was referring more to when the profiles were filled with lies based on inaccurate scans and translations, and how the scans and translations we have of Parwdise Lost give us no reason to think anything like that is occurring there.

Also I'm waiting on Avesta because theirs supposedly a Visual Novel version in the works and I'd rather wait to see where that goes before I go anywhere with that, as well as the fact I noticed even among Masada "fans" few people seem to know anything about it at all besides myself and fewer still cared to do anything about it.

User complaining about changes not happening because no one visits the threads and it's just constant bumps, might as well delete 80% of the verses at that point, because that is far from an uncommon problem.
 
BleedingPeach said:
Is "Paradise Lost" translated? Is there at least a fan made translation? Because having the "prequel" and the "sequel", and I'm talking about "Dies Irae" here, would make things a little bit easier in regards of continuity and plot.
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There was going to be, but it didn't really work out. The guy stopped after two chapters
 
Spacebattle, i remember they "love" AoE feat, and they determine character capability based on AoE destruction
 
Darksmash said:
Spacebattles doesn't use any kind of tiering, and the consensus on multiversal threads is usually "inconclusive"
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That isn't really true. They do use tiering, just not dimensional tiering. After 2A, they kinda don't have things go too much further. But shinza is apparently a cosmology skipper on that wiki.
 
Tarang123 said:
That isn't really true. They do use tiering, just not dimensional tiering. After 2A, they kinda don't have things go too much further. But shinza is apparently a cosmology skipper on that wiki.
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Yet they still don't use any kind of tiers. They simply call it "infinite multiversal", not 2-A. They simply cut things off when one reaches infinite multiversal. Most people also have different kinds of opinions on spacebattles. I have only really seen a select portion of people think that Shinza skips cosmology, and there are also people that think they can't. It's just a forum where people have different opinions, not a wiki based forum like ours where we go off of fixed profiles. However the most consistent consensus remains the same: inconclusive.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Not particularly Shinza but just Hajun, I dont know if its like this anymore but he essentially used to be unbeatable since hed always rise above his opponents.
Click to expand...

Shinza and Hajun were always strong on Space Battles but definitely not "wanked", at the same time they were High 1-A on VSBwiki so it was reasonable.
 
Tarang123 said:
That isn't really true. They do use tiering, just not dimensional tiering. After 2A, they kinda don't have things go too much further. But shinza is apparently a cosmology skipper on that wiki.
Click to expand...
Which reminds me that Umineko is cosmology skipper as well on Comicvine with their haxxx
 
Shinza lost their glory the moment they lost their 1-A rating. They used to be at really high regards since most of the supporters "knew" what they were talking about, then people who translated and didn't trust a hyperboled rating ended up being criticized and untrusted by most of the fandom. A case that hurt the trustfulness of anyone who tried to make that this verse high again; but then we have other problem: in the Shinza discussion thread nobody tried to make other thing than use their subjective opinion regarding the meaning of the translation.
If the supporters of this verse want to take sometime to say "Ok, this is what Shinza Banshou is", then that would be fine.
 
What kind of writer writes something in an obscure language that's borders into uselessness beyond cultural usage (This is like, worse than Latin), doesn't give the option to view it in more... palatable languages and expects it to be a reasonable source of profit?
 
Bobsican said:
What kind of writer writes something in an obscure language that's borders into uselessness beyond cultural usage (This is like, worse than Latin), doesn't give the option to view it in more... palatable languages and expects it to be a reasonable source of profit?
Click to expand...
Takashi Masada does.
 
BleedingPeach said:
Shinza lost their glory the moment they lost their 1-A rating. They used to be at really high regards since most of the supporters "knew" what they were talking about, then people who translated and didn't trust a hyperboled rating ended up being criticized and untrusted by most of the fandom. A case that hurt the trustfulness of anyone who tried to make that this verse high again; but then we have other problem: in the Shinza discussion thread nobody tried to make other thing than use their subjective opinion regarding the meaning of the translation.
Click to expand...
There were quite a few genuinely knowledgeable people, but they didn't really care to be involved in the verse's ratings here. And it lost a bunch of its "glory" after the High 1A ratings were removed. 1A being removed was just the nail in the coffin.
 
I can think of 3 people that where legitimately knowledgeable/had read K3 all of whom disappeared from the wiki awhile ago or never where really present here those 3 being ALRF, Raven and Trex.
 
PsychoWarper said:
I can think of 3 people that where legitimately knowledgeable/had read K3 all of whom disappeared from the wiki awhile ago or never where really present here those 3 being ALRF, Raven and Trex.
Click to expand...
Did Raven read all of K3? Cause I saw some things that I thought were off, at least given all that I've read of K3 myself
 
So...
Is it alright if the verse profiles were archived since the deletion seems like something plausible or people shouldn't make a VS thread or CRT with them until further notice?
Also, one BIG problem we have here is that, when there's nothing translated, people tend to like to be more right than others. The true fans should help, while the ones that like this verse for being powerful should pay attention to the knowledgeable members.
 
Tbh honest I want the verse files to be archived somewhere that’s what I am saying
And also then being banned from matches for now is okay too but how long will that be months?
So the files should be archived and it should be deleted for now
 
Pain_to12 said:


It’s been years but I guess all good things have to come to an end, there have been lots of threads to nuke the verse which I have always been neutral on but this time if I could turn back time I will support them so this is me turning back that time.

This is a thread to nuke the entire Shinza verse for well obvious reasons
  • only well a handful of people are interested in the verse as all the other guys are gone
  • Shinza CRTs remains unfinished and their are more “bumps” in the thread than actual messages as once Catz, Yuri, Tarang and I replies no one else replies so it’s hard to get any CRT passed their are tons of such CRTs still open currently
  • the current Shinza profiles ratings are just plain wrong as well, we have additional information now but nobody is out there making a CRT
  • the PnA sections too while it is better it is also lacking
  • The intelligence section of some profiles are just non-existent
  • the current Shinza supporters can’t agree on a single thread
  • A bulk of the verse is untranslated

Catz, Tarang and I have been working on a cosmology blog and a CRT for the ratings later on for months now, I can even say we are more than halfway done but tbh with the current attitude the wiki has for Shinza I don’t want to bother anymore at least for now.

So I suggest we back up all the profiles somewhere and delete them. Maybe later on someone(Me) will rise up again and fix the verse but as far as I know no one is currently interested to do so but I can promise that I will do that down the line and I know Catz and Tarang would help with that. But it is not something that will be done in months it will probably take years so no point in waiting.
Dies irae was one of the first game I ever bought so it pains me to see it go on this platform

Click to expand...

SHINZA GOT DEMONBANED????? WOW
 
I am personally inclined to agree with Everything12 and The_Impress. Deleting this verse when the profile pages are of higher quality than average for the wiki, and our staff cannot keep up with all of the revision threads for many other verses as well, would likely set a very bad precedent for this wiki.

That said, if there are actually 5 ongoing Dies Irae revision threads that have not received almost any input, you could directly ask several of our staff members for input help with the most important intended revisions, and tell them that I sent you, given that it is a rather important verse from a powerscaling perspective. That seems like a much better solution.
 
Also, the verse for Undoubtedly First was deleted because we had no way of verifying if A6colute's interpretation (he created the pages) was correct, since he was the only Russian-speaking member who knew anything relevant about it at the time.
 
Antvasima said:
I am personally inclined to agree with Everything12 and The_Impress. Deleting this verse when the profile pages are of higher quality than average for the wiki, and our staff cannot keep up with all of the revision threads for many other verses as well, would likely set a very bad precedent for this wiki.

That said, if there are actually 5 ongoing Dies Irae revision threads that have not received almost any input, you could directly ask several of our staff members for input help with the most important intended revisions, and tell them that I sent you, given that it is a rather important verse from a powerscaling perspective. That seems like a much better solution.
Click to expand...
That does make quite a bit of sense, but you also have that we have barely anyone that’s actually read the works on the wiki that hasn’t already left along with some pretty outdated profiles (specifically on the k3 side)
 
Well, plenty of our verses have had outdated or fragmentary information, and have waited for years until some of our members have been willing to drastically improve on them.

As such, the best approach here seems to be to try to finish the important Shinza revisions that have already been initiated, and gradually handle improvements later after you are done with your preparations.
 
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